Tsuki Ga Michibiku Isekai Douchuu General Discussion Thread

[YungManzi]

nothing about it's conceptual
just a normal empowerment that increase her physical stats(ap,dura,speed) and magic power from people simping over her.
(she was probably able to destroy Makoto's armor because of him)

a conceptual type will empower the character conceptual existence, and there is nothing in the whole verse about any feat of CM, just unnecessary words
like characters calling Makoto technique an attack with the concept of not messing when all he does is teleport the arrows to the target.

That's not how I interpreted it; conceptual empowerment is literally just using a concept to empower yourself, not really empowering your conceptual existence or something similar.

I don't remember it like that, scans?

“A power that is passively activated. To change the concept that people place on her into power, huh. She is a charismatic girl so, I wonder, just how much will this enlarge her? The price was only to decrease her amount of magic power, so it is something she would soon get back anyways”

“As an awakened one from the world transfers, she has obtained the ability to change the conception of others into power.”

I'm looking to see if there are more statements later while reading but those are the only notable ones I found so far and they're like 50 chapters apart lol.

 

[EL_xWatcher1234x]

That's not how I interpreted it; conceptual empowerment is literally just using a concept to empower yourself, not really empowering your conceptual existence or something similar.



I'm looking to see if there are more statements later while reading but those are the only notable ones I found so far and they're like 50 chapters apart lol.

so just empowerment but conceptuel type
that's just empowerment, there is no CM in any form here.

the reason I mention it it is because in her profile the conceptual empowerment link send you to CM page instead of Empowerment

 

[YungManzi]

so just empowerment but conceptuel type
that's just empowerment, there is no CM in any form here.

I suppose you're right. We'll continue this later tho.

Regardless, her entire profile is massively outdated along with pretty much everyone in the verse, makes no sense to do a CRT rn just to do a bunch more later.

 

[EL_xWatcher1234x]

I skipped ahead and read a lil bit into the more recent chapters

I understand this

 

[EL_xWatcher1234x]

Do you think some characters need more than one key in their profile
example:
calamity spider and Mio have different intelligence and size and abilities and the same for Tomoe she doesn't have control over the pocket dimension (Asura) like she was as a dragon, nothing change about Shiki.
Makoto, Tomoki, Hibiki: a key for the beginning and one from the second blessing until the current chapters, the difference is huge especially for Makoto

 

[YungManzi]

Do you think some characters need more than one key in their profile
example:
calamity spider and Mio have different intelligence and size and abilities and the same for Tomoe she doesn't have control over the pocket dimension (Asura) like she was as a dragon, nothing change about Shiki.
Makoto, Tomoki, Hibiki: a key for the beginning and one from the second blessing until the current chapters, the difference is huge especially for Makoto

Yeah. I don't think the other thing is true for Tomoe tho, im' pretty sure she can still do everything she could before with Asora, just not without Makoto's permission or something.

 

[EL_xWatcher1234x]

Yeah. I don't think the other thing is true for Tomoe tho, im' pretty sure she can still do everything she could before with Asora, just not without Makoto's permission or something.

Asura is like 100% dependent on Makoto, all Tomoe can do is open portals and a little bit of control over it like gravity that she used to train lime and forest elf guy (don't remember the name) from the manga, she was never shown to be able to affect it in other way as far I can remember.

what do you think?

 

[YungManzi]

Asura is like 100% dependent on Makoto, all Tomoe can do is open portals and a little bit of control over it like gravity that she used to train lime and forest elf guy (don't remember the name) from the manga, she was never shown to be able to affect it in other way as far I can remember.

what do you think?

That's literally never stated. At least as far as limiting people's abilities and being optionally non-corporeal or whatever in Asora, I think she still has those.

Like, even in the Waterfall vs Tomoe fight where waterfall keeps worrying about Tomoe activating Asora, Tomoe doesn’t say “I can’t do that anymore” she says “I don’t want to use it, and I don’t need to use it.”

I forgot to mention this but Tomoe may get Limited NEP via existing post her own death as an illusion in an alternate timeline (limited because the illusion eventually faded)

 

[EL_xWatcher1234x]

That's literally never stated. At least as far as limiting people's abilities and being optionally non-corporeal or whatever in Asora, I think she still has those.

Like, even in the Waterfall vs Tomoe fight where waterfall keeps worrying about Tomoe activating Asora, Tomoe doesn’t say “I can’t do that anymore” she says “I don’t want to use it, and I don’t need to use it.”

I forgot to mention this but Tomoe may get Limited NEP via existing post her own death as an illusion in an alternate timeline (limited because the illusion eventually faded)

yeah, but still not 100% sure, and yes she is non-corporeal because the body inside is just an illusion, even according to her personality she is not the type that will endanger her body and prefer to play it safe with illusion and memory manipulation.

yes, but she never created another pocket did she?
and waterfull know nothing about Makoto being able to affect it and also waterfall litteraly know nothing about the current Tomoe.
I'm agreeing that she can use it but not having full authority over it. she never affect Asura when Makoto created the environment or the size or anything that she could do before.

that's a big no (that's a different version) : there is nothing about her being NEP
1)she could possibly exist as a Soul like Futsu and physically exist as mist (illusion) like she do with everything, don't forget that the superior dragons are not normal entity.
2)there is nothing about anything in the verse being nonexistent, just people calling mist stuff like illusion, unreal, nonexistent... even though everyone keep seeing it touching it feeling it (low temperature), and we know there is nothing special about that mist except it can affect space
those are a punch of weak inconsistent unreliable statements (just my oppinion)
3)also there is nothing about her being able to do anything in that state.
4)we all saw her in one chapter and we both know that's not enough for a character especially in this verse.
5)that chapter also hint that their "resurrection" work like the phoenix thing and that their helpless by themself or that someone else need to do it,
possibly the person need to return the egg to the nest, I mean everyone have a nest in a unique place compatible with his power, right?


I don't agree with NEP because the statement are not enough and contradict the feat, it's calling the ability to turn water into vapour EE.
until you find something like turing 1 into 0 and not based on bs statements.

 

[YungManzi]

What makes the statements bs exactly?

 

[EL_xWatcher1234x]

What makes the statements bs exactly?

(sorry for the language)some verses especially this one has this problem

1) the author misusing words that represent concepts without understanding them and exaggerating something or using flowery words without consistency.
like tomoe's name the invincible shin we both know is false
or the author thinking having a bad dream of a parallel version lead to it no being True which is not how parallel world theory work (I think)
this is not wrong , it's just the author's writing style

2)statements from unreliable sources: fans, non knowledgeable characters... (Lime explain how the universe work)
(just me) Makoto is not a reliable source (except for Japan and archery) even his POV is extremely superficial like how the person look like and how he feel about him.
He consider ripping someone soul to pieces as EE.

3) alot's of characters have limit or certain condition for their power which should be applied to their weakness
I think some abilities only work on the native people to that world, like Futsu not being able to resurrect her husband because he doesn't belong to that world or Tomoe having a hard time using memory manipulation on people from other world, technically Makoto is a hyuman, Haruka WOS activate only when she receive a fatal wound .

4)NLF?

also about creation: I don't understand how Makoto felt exhausted after creating the arms but effortlessly create a continent, unless creating something in the physical reality is harder than inside a pocket dimension (pocket reality) even the goddess has her own dimension which make her undetectable (not omnipresent) inside it

 

[EL_xWatcher1234x]

What makes the statements bs exactly?

another one, imagine a normal human was stated by another human to be so stealthy it's like he became one with everything.
does he get NEP or omnipresent?

 

[EL_xWatcher1234x]

you even gave them Tier 5 based on a dumb hysterical character exaggerated statement without any feat or proof

 

[YungManzi]

To be fair, the series is a web novelization; so while I obviously agree that there are statements and concepts in the series that make no sense, I believe that the correct approach would be to take statements at face value unless heavily contradicted.

And I say that because if we start putting too much heavy scrutiny on this novelization built on mostly statements, then we’d literally not be accepting anything. Like why take any statement ever seriously?

like; to bring up your Invincible Shen example, Tomoe, known as Shen at that time, pretty much was invincible if you look at her title and statements at face value and take them for what they were. Especially as far as 99% of characters in the story are concerned, even characters far stronger than her, there’s pretty much no one who could beat even Shen Tomoe if they get dragged into Asora (In which case, she couldn’t drag Makoto in the first place so he didn’t have that issue )

 

[YungManzi]

3) alot's of characters have limit or certain condition for their power which should be applied to their weakness
I think some abilities only work on the native people to that world, like Futsu not being able to resurrect her husband because he doesn't belong to that world or Tomoe having a hard time using memory manipulation on people from other world, technically Makoto is a hyuman, Haruka WOS activate only when she receive a fatal wound .

I’m not sure about all of this, I’ll have to reread a lot of stuff, but I do know that for sure the Tomoe memory stuff is you taking statements out of context to try and put weaknesses on her.

The reason she has a harder time using it on people from other worlds is because they have resistance to it, not because it’s a weakness of her power.

This is proven by her statements regarding Hibiki and Tomoki where she literally says that as they get more powerful and gain more skills she won’t be able to read their memories at all, but right then she still could.

 

[EL_xWatcher1234x]

Like why take any statement ever seriously?

actual feats

like; to bring up your Invincible Shen example, Tomoe, known as Shen at that time, pretty much was invincible if you look at her title and statements at face value and take them for what they were

when you use invincible you imagine some like indestructible or immovable, don't you think calling the sharingan invincible if it doesn't affect you if your eyes are closed a little bit exaggeration?
all she does is hide or put them in an illusion which she can't control and can be escaped with brute force and magic power like Makoto did.
even Makoto at the beginning beat her in term of strength by punching her scales off.

The reason she has a harder time using it on people from other worlds is because they have resistance to it,

people from other world= non native
there is no mention of them encountering any other memory manipulation but Tomoe which is the only one that they all have a passive resistance to it
(yes that's a weakness on here part and not resistance for them)

I think her power is an actual hax and not something that can be resisted with magic power, also isn't there memory magic or brainwashing that Shiki use
her ability on the other hand is unique and come from Root like Futsu's ability and I think they don'taffect the other wolders.

Do you think Tomoe's MM>normal mind manipulation magic (because it can't be resisted with mana)

any scans of her reading otherwolders (not Makoto) memory.

 

[YungManzi]

actual feats

When everything is in text, all feats are statements. Especially since almost all of the chapters are from someone's POV (Makoto or otherwise)

when you use invincible you imagine some like indestructible or immovable, don't you think calling the sharingan invincible if it doesn't affect you if your eyes are closed a little bit exaggeration?

True, but we have added context for the invincible statement. Tomoe says she's invincible because of her Asora hax, not strength or durability.

She says exactly this in chapter 6.

I am, in the dragons’ ranks, one of the most superior ones. I am called ‘invincible’.

But the reason for my being invincible is because of my power, ‘Asora’.

all she does is hide or put them in an illusion which she can't control and can be escaped with brute force and magic power like Makoto did.
even Makoto at the beginning beat her in term of strength by punching her scales off.


people from other world= non native
there is no mention of them encountering any other memory manipulation but Tomoe which is the only one that they all have a passive resistance to it
(yes that's a weakness on here part and not resistance for them)

Tomoe literally says she can do it on the heroes right now, but as they grow in power she won't be able to, that literally means it's not just that memory hax doesn't work on people who aren't from the goddess's world or descended from people in the goddess's world (Since Makoto was actually born on earth)
In chapter 174, Tomoe literally says she can read Hibiki's memories.

“Techniques with a Japanese sword.

I can see the details in Hibiki’s memories, but nothing could be better than seeing it in person.”
-Tomoe could see the details in Hibiki’s techniques through her memories.

I think her power is an actual hax and not something that can be resisted with magic power, also isn't there memory magic or brainwashing that Shiki use
her ability on the other hand is unique and come from Root like Futsu's ability and I think they don'taffect the other wolders.

I think there's a pretty clear distinction made between brainwashing and memory manipulation.

Do you think Tomoe's MM>normal mind manipulation magic (because it can't be resisted with mana)

Yes, however I don't agree that it can't be resisted with mana.

any scans of her reading otherwolders (not Makoto) memory.

The hibiki thing

“She was sitting so close to Waka in the drawing room, but she did not show any expression of having an ulterior motive. Finding out exactly what this girl gained from that conversation is one of my objectives.

I’m secretly looking through her memories, but from the conversation with Waka earlier, it seems she has gathered most of the available information about Waka as Raidou of the Kuzunoha company.”

^Another example from the same chapter of her reading Hibiki's memories. In which case it's also interesting to note that she can look through someone's memories without them noticing or being near them.

 

[EL_xWatcher1234x]

When everything is in text, all feats are statements. Especially since almost all of the chapters are from someone's POV (Makoto or otherwise)

yes a feat that actually happen, I'm talking about the stuff that never happened yet or at all but were stated, "Makoto vs goddess will destroy the world" is just a statment without the feat

sorry I forgot about the Hibiki thing, but at least it prove that her power is less effective on them, especially considering she couldn't read the apple group assassin, a human who was there for a long time, so eventually her power won't be able to affect them.

I think there's a pretty clear distinction made between brainwashing and memory manipulation.

yes, but they both fall under mind, you can add the charm as a hax as it also after time affect the target.

Yes, however I don't agree that it can't be resisted with mana.

why ?

 

[YungManzi]

yes a feat that actually happen, I'm talking about the stuff that never happened yet or at all but were stated, "Makoto vs goddess will destroy the world" is just a statment without the feat

sorry I forgot about the Hibiki thing, but at least it prove that her power is less effective on them, especially considering she couldn't read the apple group assassin, a human who was there for a long time, so eventually her power won't be able to affect them.

I think you focus too much on the apple group. They're all like supremely powerful and haxxed in their own right because of their guild system or whatever it was called lol. You can't use them as the baseline for all humans.

yes, but they both fall under mind, you can add the charm as a hax as it also after time affect the target.

That's how we treat them on the site, but I don't think the verse treats them as under the same general group of resistances. I may be wrong tho.

why ?

Because of what I said before.

 

[EL_xWatcher1234x]

I think you focus too much on the apple group. They're all like supremely powerful and haxxed in their own right because of their guild system or whatever it was called lol. You can't use them as the baseline for all humans.

yeah they don't have much feats but their more knowledgeable than lost characters about stuff like magic, blessings and guild system.
also they are humans otherwise we are stuck with Tomoki and Hibiki .

Yes, however I don't agree that it can't be resisted with mana.

then how it affected Makoto, when he has resistance to almost everything in the verse.

That's how we treat them on the site, but I don't think the verse treats them as under the same general group of resistances. I may be wrong tho.

look it up, it may give them layers, right?

 

[YungManzi]

yeah they don't have much feats but their more knowledgeable than lost characters about stuff like magic, blessings and guild system.
also they are humans otherwise we are stuck with Tomoki and Hibiki .

Honestly... even Tomoki and Hibiki are heavily enhanced by the goddess among many other things and aren't at all representative of average humans either.

Point is, literally no human in the goddess's world is comparable to an normal human anywhere else, even in Tsukimichi verse, and especially not outside of the verse; because in Tsuki ga, via cosmology, normal humans are not really normal humans . So even if she couldn't use it on normal humans you couldn't say that means she won't e able t use it on a normal irl human.

then how it affected Makoto, when he has resistance to almost everything in the verse.

Makoto lets Tomoe use it on him. And BOS Makoto simply didn't have that resistance yet.

look it up, it may give them layers, right?

Maybe.

 

[EL_xWatcher1234x]

Honestly... even Tomoki and Hibiki are heavily enhanced by the goddess among many other things and aren't at all representative of average humans either.

Point is, literally no human in the goddess's world is comparable to an normal human anywhere else, even in Tsukimichi verse, and especially not outside of the verse; because in Tsuki ga, via cosmology, normal humans are not really normal humans . So even if she couldn't use it on normal humans you couldn't say that means she won't e able t use it on a normal irl human.

damn you are right

Makoto lets Tomoe use it on him. And BOS Makoto simply didn't have that resistance yet.

what ? (from the begining he had mana pool was higher than anyone)
just by being on earth is a training to his body and especially his meditation technique helped him.

he literally resist anything used on him from the first time because it not enough to affect them, "like pouring a bucket in an ocean".
the only exception are the goddess she could easily mess with his body the first time but had a problem on the second one.

 

[YungManzi]

Y’know. I’ve found some statements in extra chapters that absolutely support tier 5 to tier 4 god level characters, and I now believ 5-B is a lowball for Makoto and the goddess.

I’Ll explain later when I get home.

 

[YungManzi]

damn you are right

what ? (from the begining he had mana pool was higher than anyone)
just by being on earth is a training to his body and especially his meditation technique helped him.

he literally resist anything used on him from the first time because it not enough to affect them, "like pouring a bucket in an ocean".
the only exception are the goddess she could easily mess with his body the first time but had a problem on the second one.

I don’t agree that his mana pool is that big early on

 

[EL_xWatcher1234x]

I don’t agree that his mana pool is that big early on

why? everything he did show the opposite

He survived a fall after the goddess throwed him
He easlly killed the two headed dog
His stamina: he was for a few days right?
Tomoe literally mention that if they a pact she will be the servant

(not sure about this one) when Tsukyomi gave him a blessing Makoto accidently absorbed too much of his power because his capacity was too high
that result in Tsukyomi being weakened and returning to his mother (Izanami).
if you have time can you look it up. don't remember the chapter but It was Susano talking about this.

 

[YungManzi]

why? everything he did show the opposite

He survived a fall after the goddess throwed him
He easlly killed the two headed dog
His stamina: he was for a few days right?
Tomoe literally mention that if they a pact she will be the servant

I'm not saying he's not strong or he doesn't have a whole lot of mana at the beginning, I'm saying I don't think he's so far and above everyone as soon as he lands on the goddess's world. Like I seriously contend with him even being 6-B and/or scaling to 6-B resistances and abilities. He was heavily injured by Mio and could have lost to both her and Tomoe if they didn't take a liking to him. He was even completely drained by Mio when making a pact with her and needed half of his magic power when making a pact with Tomoe.

On chapter 46 this is kinda stated.

“However, on the day that Waka made a pact with Mio, your magic power was already incomparable to the time when you did a pact with me. And after that, the ‘maximum capacity level’ was increasing at a crazy pace” (Tomoe)

“With the current amount of magic power that Waka possesses, it would be easy to make a pact with a mountain of existences in our level. Even though you needed close to half of your magic when you made a pact with me” (Tomoe)

(not sure about this one) when Tsukyomi gave him a blessing Makoto accidently absorbed too much of his power because his capacity was too high
that result in Tsukyomi being weakened and returning to his mother (Izanami).
if you have time can you look it up. don't remember the chapter but It was Susano talking about this.

I remember this. I didn't take this as him literally giving him too much of his power, but giving him the ability to become as powerful as a god.

 

[YungManzi]

Oh wait...

My brother did not hide for the same reason I did but it was because he had used too much of his power when he tried to interfere with another world. It exhausted his power so much that he was unable to maintain his form even in this land. He had retreated to our mother’s side to recover.

^This is from extra 7 that I'm reading rn lol, you must have been talking about this. But this is Amaterasu (Tsukuyomi's sister), not Susanoo.

 

[EL_xWatcher1234x]

I'm not saying he's not strong or he doesn't have a whole lot of mana at the beginning, I'm saying I don't think he's so far and above everyone as soon as he lands on the goddess's world. Like I seriously contend with him even being 6-B and/or scaling to 6-B resistances and abilities. He was heavily injured by Mio and could have lost to both her and Tomoe if they didn't take a liking to him. He was even completely drained by Mio when making a pact with her and needed half of his magic power when making a pact with Tomoe.

On chapter 46 this is kinda stated.




I remember this. I didn't take this as him literally giving him too much of his power, but giving him the ability to become as powerful as a god.

yeah even the demon king admitted it

where do you come up with those scale, nothing other than Makoto or the gods is higher than 6-C

we already talked about how mana and body are different:
imagine elemental affinity but for body (strength, speed, durability) some people are more focused on a single thing.
some character are speed type and other are strength type, otherwise Makoto one punch everyone.
Makoto even needed(probably) body strengthening to lift the tree and when he didn't use it he wasn't able to escape Sofia "hugging" him
he have more mana and still wasn't able to face some characters who are a lot weaker than him in speed
we Io is stronger physically than Makoto and he wouldn't able to fight him hand to hand without his magic armor

mana ≠ physical feat (unless they use body strengthening )

 

[YungManzi]

where do you come up with those scale, nothing other than Makoto or the gods is higher than 6-C

So what do you scale all of the tomoe, mio, and haruka type characters? and why do you scale them there but not 6-B?

 

[EL_xWatcher1234x]

So what do you scale all of the tomoe, mio, and haruka type characters? and why do you scale them there but not 6-B?

according to Expectro's calculation the two (Makoto, Tomoki) strongest attack we aver saw came out as 6-C
when did any character show an attack that destroyed a mountain or country in a single attack
I could only think of Root elemental attack to be the only attack closer to them

like not a single fight ended up destroying a country
and some statements like IO being able to destroy a country are not true, we both know he is not even close and his fight with Makoto didn't even destroy the castle
high tier (gods, Makoto) less than tier 6-A for creating Asura, and we know not all the gods are equal because japan is not a continent.
mid tier: from tier 7 until 6-C
low tier:
like seriously they consider destroying a wall (demon castle) an impressive feat (don't remember the ch)

the continent is a copy of Japan (we don't know the size) it's like giving someone Tier 5 for being able to "destroy it"
and comparing country like Limia to an actual country Japan doesn't make sense. japan is considered an island country not even a continent,so)
come to think of it did anyone destroyed a city by himself. (Tomoe and Mio took many attacks to destroy a small village)
we know that all the antagonist go all out against Makoto and there is no destruction from their attack that reach tier 6, probably even 7.
the whole tiering is based on statement in this verse.

if you disagree please show a feat (not statement) that reach tier 6 or closer by lower character.

 

[Expectro2000xxx]

@YungManzi while I don't agree with various of the things @EL_xWatcher1234x have said in the discussions, this last from him I could actually agree because, for example, is true that we can confirm how IO lack the ability of literally destroy a country, and this is because he haven't show to posses an aoe high, which immediately debunk the idea that he destroy a country in a single moment, so with that it seems more likely that the statement mean that human countries lack the military prowess to fight him and thus he is a national level treat (like similar to what happen with Yujiro who is a treat to countries and can defeat them despite not be able to literally destroy them with an attack). Is also true that Tomoe and Mio for example haven't show to destroy countries with one attack and instead took various attacks to destroy a city (which I honestly didn't calc the craters because they didn't seem worthy), although I could see them or other foes of similar level having better destruction feats, I know that at least Mio can survive an mountain sized explosion but I think that was more due to her regen though could remember wrong. Tier 5 from the goddess world which is only a bigger Japan is also something I don't agree as I argued in the upgrade thread, but I certainly can see the gods being tier 4 or even 3 (which I also commented in the upgrade thread) due to statements about creating stars and things like that in the extra chapters iirc (maybe even low 2-C from the parallel timelines and shit like that from).

 

[YungManzi]

Hey, I agree most people (Almost everyone) don't have to AOE to destroy an entire country. The argument is about Attack Potency (How powerful an attack is), not destructive capacity (How much an attack can destroy) . Like in Naruto there are tons of people who scale to 5-B who couldn't actually destroy the planet, or in One Piece there are a million High 6-A characters who cannot destroy multiple continents simply because they don't have that range of effect with attacks. So saying "None of these people who scale to the feat has ever destroyed a country" is not a real argument because that's not the metric of which we judge character's strength in this community.

That was the main argument I wanted to tackle, now I'll get to individual points.

so with that it seems more likely that the statement mean that human countries lack the military prowess to fight him and thus he is a national level treat (like similar to what happen with Yujiro who is a treat to countries and can defeat them despite not be able to literally destroy them with an attack). Is also true that Tomoe and Mio for example haven't show to destroy countries with one attack and instead took various attacks to destroy a city (which I honestly didn't calc the craters because they didn't seem worthy), although I could see them or other foes of similar level having better destruction feats, I know that at least Mio can survive an mountain sized explosion but I think that was more due to her regen though could remember wrong.

So.. If you accept Root's blaze as a country bust, and long haired mio stopped and manipulated the entirety of roots blaze for minutes, then we'd have to accept that long haired Mio in some way scales to that feat.

Tier 5 from the goddess world which is only a bigger Japan is also something I don't agree as I argued in the upgrade thread, but I certainly can see the gods being tier 4 or even 3 (which I also commented in the upgrade thread) due to statements about creating stars and things like that in the extra chapters iirc (maybe even low 2-C from the parallel timelines and shit like that from).

Yeah this is the stuff I was talking about.

In other news, I forgot to bring this up to you guys as a reference point to how big the continent is.

“How’s Limia?”

“It is a big country. Isn’t it a major power that is fighting over the first and second place?” (Makoto)
-Limia’s size.
________

“…The territory of Limia is wide, so maybe around the ten millions or hundred millions?” (Makoto)

Looking at its territory only, I don’t think it would be strange for them to have at least this much.
-Makoto thinks that based on the size of Limia alone it would have tens of millions to hundreds of millions of people in it. Which kind of supports it being a japan sized country or somewhat relative given Japan’s population of 125 million.

^So it's best to assume Limia is somewhat relative in size to Japan imo

 

[EL_xWatcher1234x]

I know that at least Mio can survive an mountain sized explosion but I think that was more due to her regen though could remember wrong.

yeah

A slightly far away rock mountain had become rubble, and it had signs of a spider there.

It looked as if only its shadow was remaining.

Ahahahaha. This…I could only laugh at it.

That kind of attack…

I confirm it. The attack just now would even slaughter a dragon.

Leaving aside my ‘invincible’ name, there are a number of Superior Dragons that boast on their defensive capabilities.

If it is an acquaintance it would be Sand Wave. But even that fellow, if it received such an attack, it would become a fatal wound.

Master, with a face that looked like it had lost all its vitality, slowly tottered to the shadow of the spider that was remaining there.

Is it to retrieve his dagger?

“Has your stomach filled up, you pervert?” (Makoto)

But just saying that must have taken his all, because his face turned blue and he toppled over.

Using that much magic power, well, it is the obvious result. His physical strength must be at its limit as well.

No other choice. Let’s carry him.

It was at the moment I thought that…

“Wha?!”

The shadow became solid in a second and revived. Impossible, it is an attack that not even a Superior dragon would be able to take, you know?!

Even if that spider is an incarnation of darkness, it shouldn’t be able to endure it!

Tier 5 from the goddess world which is only a bigger Japan is also something I don't agree as I argued in the upgrade thread, but I certainly can see the gods being tier 4 or even 3 (which I also commented in the upgrade thread) due to statements about creating stars and things like that in the extra chapters iirc (maybe even low 2-C from the parallel timelines and shit like that from).

Do you mean the pocket dimension, those look like just the background and not actual stars.
Shiva destroy a parallel world by giving Makoto a bad dream, how does that work?
I could possibly agree on some stuff like Susano gifting a sea to Makoto.

So.. If you accept Root's blaze as a country bust, and long haired mio stopped and manipulated the entirety of roots blaze for minutes, then we'd have to accept that long haired Mio in some way scales to that feat.

just a possible, Mio didn't actually take the whole charged attack but just a bunch of smaller ones that could only make a crater if they touch the ground

^So it's best to assume Limia is somewhat relative in size to Japan imo

Are you trying to give them a country size based on Makoto saying maybe, really?
we never get an actual number about the size o the population of any country.

 

[YungManzi]

know that all the antagonist go all out against Makoto and there is no destruction from their attack that reach tier 6, probably even 7.
the whole tiering is based on statement in this verse.
if you disagree please show a feat (not statement) that reach tier 6 or closer by lower character.

“This is my first time seeing such a firm and aggressive barrier. If it’s through force, one day. If I am to analyze it, I want at least 3 days. Seriously, when I am close to him, I don’t get bored” (Root)

Root would need a day to physically break through Akua and Eris's barrier (Despite his blaze) So scales directly to 6-B

“In the sea, there’s things called submarine volcanos. They erupt just like the ones in land. The scale of the ones I did were small, but there was a time when I stopped one of those eruptions myself, and since then, I have been called the Number One Target, Serwhale.”
“Submarine volcanos. Is that so. That’s why it is called firemen. I understand now.” (Makoto)
“Well then.”
-Sugey/Serwhale can stop the eruption of a small volcano.

“That person said he was able to stop the eruption of a mountain with that small body of his though?” (Ema)
“…Oh.” (Makoto)
Even if he says it was a small eruption, it is still quite the big deal.
I haven’t seen a submarine volcano, but it is probably quite the exploit.
“It seems like there’s powerful people in the sea as well. I have to tell everyone.” (Ema)
“Even if their names were gags as well, they were diligent people. Neptunes, how fearsome.” (Makoto)
-More on stopping eruptions

I answered that at that time, I would love to, but I think the chances of it will be low.
“He was truly a mountain.” (Ema)
-Blue Moon’s size is compared to a mountain.

 

[YungManzi]

just a possible, Mio didn't actually take the whole charged attack but just a bunch of smaller ones that could only make a crater if they touch the ground

But to do them all at the same time should still require a similar amount of power.

Are you trying to give them a country size based on Makoto saying maybe, really?
we never get an actual number about the size o the population of any country.

It's better than the nothing we have rn. He literally says he's basing his inaccurate population numbers on how big the country is land-wise.

 

[YungManzi]

For the volcano stuff, I believe even small ones are like 6-C feats generally

 

[Expectro2000xxx]

Hey, I agree most people (Almost everyone) don't have to AOE to destroy an entire country. The argument is about Attack Potency (How powerful an attack is), not destructive capacity (How much an attack can destroy) . Like in Naruto there are tons of people who scale to 5-B who couldn't actually destroy the planet, or in One Piece there are a million High 6-A characters who cannot destroy multiple continents simply because they don't have that range of effect with attacks. So saying "None of these people who scale to the feat has ever destroyed a country" is not a real argument because that's not the metric of which we judge character's strength in this community.

That was the main argument I wanted to tackle, now I'll get to individual points.

The detail is that in Naruto they have calcs at tier 5 (one 5-C, two 5-C+ and other 5-B), then other characters with less aoe scale to the characters that performed those feats that necessarily need a certain aoe. The problem here is that there is no such feats, aoe for those feats or scaling to characters able to perform said feats, for instance let's take the IO example, the country destruction statement if taken as him being able to literally destroy the land of mass of a country then get immediately contradicted by the fact that is impossible for him to really destroy said land of mass with one attack, instead if taken in the military/combat prowess sense that I mentioned there wouldn't exist such contradiction, if he had a scaling with other characters able to perform feats like that then he could still stay in his current tier but I don't see such thing. Edit: Actually reading the country threat statement it even mention how armies can't defeat strong individuals and that the strong determine the national power, which further support the interpretation about him being just stronger than the military prowes (strong individuals) of small nations.

So.. If you accept Root's blaze as a country bust, and long haired mio stopped and manipulated the entirety of roots blaze for minutes, then we'd have to accept that long haired Mio in some way scales to that feat.

Yeah, Root level people I have not problem scaling to tier 6 for instance, my main concern was mainly the Mio and Tomoe (so superior dragon level guys) and my actual problem is with Io and Sofia destruction statements as they are contradicted.

Hey, I agree most people (Almost everyone) don't have to AOE to destroy an entire country. The argument is about Attack Potency (How powerful an attack is), not destructive capacity (How much an attack can destroy) . Like in Naruto there are tons of people who scale to 5-B who couldn't actually destroy the planet, or in One Piece there are a million High 6-A characters who cannot destroy multiple continents simply because they don't have that range of effect with attacks. So saying "None of these people who scale to the feat has ever destroyed a country" is not a real argument because that's not the metric of which we judge character's strength in this community.

That was the main argument I wanted to tackle, now I'll get to individual points.


So.. If you accept Root's blaze as a country bust, and long haired mio stopped and manipulated the entirety of roots blaze for minutes, then we'd have to accept that long haired Mio in some way scales to that feat.

Yeah this is the stuff I was talking about.

In other news, I forgot to bring this up to you guys as a reference point to how big the continent is.

Will try to think what could be done with the Limia statements, I think I saw onces a calculation (I believe it was from Overlord) where they got the size of a location based on the population said location had and the medieval index of population per square meter or something like that, would need to further investigate.

 

[EL_xWatcher1234x]

Root would need a day to physically break through Akua and Eris's barrier (Despite his blaze) So scales directly to 6-B

I don't get the context
but I'm talking about his ultimate attack, he doesn't sound like he is talking about his AOE
by the way we are still not sure about the scale so stop mentioning other characters.

so ema statement give them mountain size, no ema is size is extremely small even IO will look like a giant to her, and there is a lot of statment in fiction where people are called mountain because of there muscles.
Do you actual size with actual numbers.

are underwater volcano equal to land ones?

But to do them all at the same time should still require a similar amount of power.

no, unless taking a lots of bullet is equal to taking a missile to the face, plus her absorption definitely did some help.

It's better than the nothing we have rn. He literally says he's basing his inaccurate population numbers on how big the country is land-wise.

yes which prove my point most of the scaling based on weak statements and not actual numbers.
is there a verse with similar problem of country size?

 

[Expectro2000xxx]

But to do them all at the same time should still require a similar amount of power.

It's better than the nothing we have rn. He literally says he's basing his inaccurate population numbers on how big the country is land-wise.

To note, the destruction of the city that took various attacks was something done overtime in their fight, they didn't create that amount of attacks in one moment.

The population part certainly isn't the most reliable but is still useful and I can see it working to grant a rating (in case a calculation is done based on that).

For the volcano stuff, I believe even small ones are like 6-C feats generally

I'm not sure, I remember DT mentioning how eruptions are something complicated to calculate due to how they work and that him didn't know how it could be calculated, though could remember wrong, need to look for further discussion about that.

 

[Expectro2000xxx]

As a note, if some of you read the manga and see something moderately impressive or that could give an interesting result then send it so I could at least give it a look.