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Tsuki Ga Michibiku Isekai Douchuu General Discussion Thread

You sure about that? Because in light novels when a map of the world is given normally is an accurate despiction (as wasting a precious illustration in something incorrect/wrong is something the authors, editors, etc. normally don't desire to do).

It can still help as a lowball at least so is still useful if used right.
I think so. But you're probably right, because the map we have shows the wasteland with Lorel Union.

“The wasteland is really vast huh. It even makes contact with Lorel territory.” (Makoto)

There’s no accurate portrayal of the wasteland in maps, so I didn’t know.”
I believe there's a similar statement made about the demon territory. Can't seem to find it now though kek.

Also with regards to the curse disease, which type of madness manipulation do you think it would be considered? Type 1, 2, or 3 (It kind feels like a mixture of 1 and 2 kek)
 
just type 2
there is no mentioning of any biological method used to cause it.
Sure the fact that it's magic presents the argument for type 2.

However , It's a magical disease that acts similarly to rabies. Gives them a fever, and traditional medicine can somewhat help with the symptoms. So that's the argument for type 1.


^Then again; I've seen similar abilities get classified as type 3 since it's a more-so a result of the transformation/corruption than a direct manipulation.

lol, I legit have no clue what to take this power as in these terms.
 
I think so. But you're probably right, because the map we have shows the wasteland with Lorel Union.
There is also possible that the light novel changed a bit that part to not waste the illustration? Don't know, though either way as I said is at the very least useful as lowball in the worst case and in the best situation is a accurate despiction, so should be used regardless.
Also with regards to the curse disease, which type of madness manipulation do you think it would be considered? Type 1, 2, or 3 (It kind feels like a mixture of 1 and 2 kek)
Type 1, the disease directly affect the biology of the victim, so in this case is more the biological mind than the "metaphysical mind" the one affected, so that's why it should be listed as Type 1.
 
^Then again; I've seen similar abilities get classified as type 3 since it's a more-so a result of the transformation/corruption than a direct manipulation.
is that from NNT?
dk why the purgatory is type 3.
3: Cognition: Those who possess this type drive others insane as a side-effect of the nature of their being, with the very act of looking at or attempting to perceive them being enough to send victims into a state of madness or terror. More extreme forms are capable of outright killing those who suffer from their effects.
 
is that from NNT?
dk why the purgatory is type 3.
Yeah it is.

Honestly, type 3 needs to be revised as a whole. Because the wording seems to only include like eldritch beings and similar such things, we apparently give it to a whole host of different people and different situations and we accept it as such.

And I'm not just saying that so I can get my type 3 madness swordsmanship for Sofia lol.
 
Like if instead of "nature of their being" or "attempting to perceive them" we just had "Cause madness as a side-effect of some unrelated feature or action", which in a lot of cases we seem to treat it as anyways, We'd definitely have type 3 madness in the verse.
 
And I'm not just saying that so I can get my type 3 madness swordsmanship for Sofia lol.
what madness ?

Like if instead of "nature of their being" or "attempting to perceive them" we just had "Cause madness as a side-effect of some unrelated feature or action", which in a lot of cases we seem to treat it as anyways, We'd definitely have type 3 madness in the verse.
Type 3 is not something like an attack, it's just the thing or person being too complex for their mind to understand, this is not a mind manipulation just a side effect of their nature.
actually it kind of the easiest type of madness manipulation to counter, all you have to do is ignore it (turn off you're senses).
 
Yeah it is.
Why are you using as example the verse that speedster wank? That is probably type 1 considering that the biology of the people is getting affected, if anything at all because that line alone is so ******* vague that shouldn't be enough at all, like it could perfectly be a metaphor about how someone (Ban) need a strong mind to endure all the harshness of the place (the extreme temperature, the condition of the air, the powerful monsters, the souls of the lost, etc) instead of it having literal mind manip, but is speedster verse so as if I care enough to make a crt now.

And I believe the current description of Type 3 is correct and think that the type is quite clear, you just want to change it to include other things so Sofia and others could get it, which I believe shouldn't happen.
 
And I believe the current description of Type 3 is correct and think that the type is quite clear, you just want to change it to include other things so Sofia and others could get it, which I believe shouldn't happen.
Not true, really. I legit have just seen 6-9 different profiles all of which don't actual attune to the wording on the page, and that should be addressed. That's a completely reasonable take that has nothing to do with any verse I follow.
 
what madness ?


Type 3 is not something like an attack, it's just the thing or person being too complex for their mind to understand, this is not a mind manipulation just a side effect of their nature.
actually it kind of the easiest type of madness manipulation to counter, all you have to do is ignore it (turn off you're senses).
If the “thing” can be sword movements then we may have type 3 madness, I don’t believe I brought it up here but I mentioned it in DMs with Expec:
So question...

“Uh!! Tto, what incredible superhuman strength. So to resume, a god body in an average mind huh. Ah, you were going 2v1 against us and were able to stay sane so, maybe your mind is also tough. Wouldn’t you be able to face the roar of a dragon and its overpowering aura? But well, your skills are no good though” (Sofia)
Is this considered type 3 Madness Manipulation? Via being able to induce insanity by fighting?

And by extension make dragon roar madness type 3
I think it could be literal... Just because of the fact that she did make a literal reference to Makoto's body in the same sentence, and related fighting herself and Lancer to a dragon's roar, which we know induces mind altering effects.
Expec- The comparison with the dragon roar is the strongest point that could support the argument of madness, though even then I still could see it as a reference to have a strong mentality but I can see your point.
Basically, the argument is; fighting Sofia and lancer should've caused Makoto to go insane despite his strong body (Enhanced by magic) and a strong mind would be required to stay sane while fighting them, and this effect Sofia talks about is comparable to a dragon's roar and "Overpowering aura".
 
If the “thing” can be sword movements then we may have type 3 madness, I don’t believe I brought it up here but I mentioned it in DMs with Expec:



Basically, the argument is; fighting Sofia and lancer should've caused Makoto to go insane despite his strong body (Enhanced by magic) and a strong mind would be required to stay sane while fighting them, and this effect Sofia talks about is comparable to a dragon's roar and "Overpowering aura".
if you take it out of context it sound like it, but
that's look to me like it's just the aura effect of fear, that they can resist by having more mana .

no because:
1)she compared it to dragon's roar, that's agreeable because she know about that but there is no feat of madness just fear, even Root's roar doesn't cause it.
2)unreliable, she use the big words like god to exaggerate when she spend her whole life looking for Root without finding him, she know nothing about them.
3)let's not forget, she never met anyone even close to her Lv before Makoto.

Could you find anything in the verse like madness (not fear) from aura?
even if there was something that cause madness it will be Type 2
 
Could you find anything in the verse like madness (not fear) from aura?
even if there was something that cause madness it will be Type 2
The madness feats I have so far are

“Yes ma’am, I am afraid so, she keeps yelling Tomoki-sama and is losing sanity quickly. I had knocked her out thus there is no danger, and was going to continue her treatment.” (Demon A)
-Those who are charmed lose their sanity. Madness Manipulation (Type 2)
“Excluding the Superior Dragons; it will summon a variety of dragons in this place, and in madness, they will rampage.” (Zef)
-Madness Manipulation (Type 2) for the Governor Sceptor.
Then there's curse disease and Tomoe's aura of despair.

The only dragon roar/aura stuff I can think of rn is root's roar via curse disease.
 
The madness feats I have so far are



Then there's curse disease and Tomoe's aura of despair.

The only dragon roar/aura stuff I can think of rn is root's roar via curse disease.
the first one is the charm which we already mention, it kind people emotions go crazy for Tomoki, is it madness manipulation?
the second doesn't mean anything, the staff summon an animal that act as an animal, don't see any Madness in this.

Then there's curse disease and Tomoe's aura of despair.

The only dragon roar/aura stuff I can think of rn is root's roar via curse disease.
everyone has aura, the amount of mana is what make the difference.
like when the first hyuman Makoto met was afraid of his aura.

like I said about their resistance work by using their manapool to resist others mana.
 
the first one is the charm which we already mention, it kind people emotions go crazy for Tomoki, is it madness manipulation?
the second doesn't mean anything, the staff summon an animal that act as an animal, don't see any Madness in this.
Well remember how it summoned root and forced him to use his blaze?
everyone has aura, the amount of mana is what make the difference.
like when the first hyuman Makoto met was afraid of his aura.

like I said about their resistance work by using their manapool to resist others mana.
I'm not sure what this resistance talk has to do with madness manipulation lol.
 
Well remember how it summoned root and force him to use his blaze?
still no madness, didn't Root did it just because it was apart of a contract or cool.
get it, summon a monster that active it's special move like in games (Root only used his strongest attack and left), Root got the idea from the games apple group used to play.

Did you find anything about the attack, all I remember it combine elemental magic and take time to use (kind of like kyubi's attack)
the summoning staff is something that work by chance depending on the possible summons, I think Makoto's luck is what summoned Root.
kind of stupid the demons don't understand how it work and think it's a smart idea to let Makoto use it.

I'm not sure what this resistance talk has to do with madness manipulation lol.
if it was from the aura or the roar it could be resisted with manapool.

the aura is the effect of having a lot of mana, if someone has less than you they will be affected by it, everyone has the fear effect but only few have other effect than that.
 
if it was from the aura or the roar it could be resisted with manapool.

the aura is the effect of having a lot of mana, if someone has less than you they will be affected by it, everyone has the fear effect but only few have other effect than that.
So... it''s still madness... right?
 
So... it''s still madness... right?
no, just fear and panic.

just remember something, when Makoto made a pact with Shiki he gave him the rings because the difference between their magic power will make him lose his mind or end up being absorb by him.(not sure about it)


creation for Shiki ?
The fourth. Tomoe points out at Lich-san with her chin. Maybe it’s because the priest robe-looking outfit (though even if I say ‘priest’ it is black and has an ominous and complex gold embroidery design) was made out of magic power, the skeleton wasn’t laying bare (bones). His eye sockets seem to be shining a red light, so I could tell that he was awake ch55
“… fumu, what will happen to me?” (Lich)

The skeleton obediently stands and talks. However, he hasn’t taken out his weapon, the cane. Is the weapon made out of magic power like his garment? ch56
kind make sense, he is the one who told Makoto about creation witch magic, and his staff is something he can summon like the silver arms.
also the goddess created hyumans.
that's a proof they can create stuff from mana, Mio can absorb those stuff.

what do you think about Tomoe's offshoot ?

another proof darkness element= magic absorption
“Then, now comes the questions I wanted to ask. The first one, you already answered half of it, but I want to ask again. What was that spell that you used to defeat me? Just what in the world did you do for my magic power to be eaten?” (Lich)

Ah, he must be talking about the thing that intelligent people wouldn’t understand huh.

“That spell is made purely out of darkness attribute magic. The original target was the spell’s wisp, then Lich, I just designated you” (Makoto)

“… I don’t understand what you are trying to say” (Lich)

“Didn’t you say the specialty of darkness magic a second ago?” (Makoto)

“Absorbtion… no. What I said? Eating magic, do you refer to that?” (Lich)

“Yeah, that’s right. That’s the answer” (Makoto)

“But isn’t it meaningless to use magic power on a spell that has already been activated? If you try to scatter a magic like that it would end up in excess use of magic power. Moreover, a magic power that is clad on a user, to use only darkness to erase it would make the effectiveness even lower” (Lich)

“You are right” (Makoto)

“At the very least, I estimate it would be from 10 times to 15 times more. It would only be a waste to do that” (Lich)

“Yeah, it was a waste” (Makoto)

“… Is Makoto-dono an idiot?” (Lich)

“What a wicked tongue (lol) you have. However, the reality is that you lost” (Makoto)

“Doing whatever you wanted, wasting magic power as if pouring water and were even able to eat the magic power that I had already composed” (Lich)

“Yep, that’s right” (Makoto ch56
Makoto has it

about their Powernull, I remember it only work on elemental magic or using Sakai.
 
no, just fear and panic.
Again, I was referring to the curse disease aspect of it. "Panic" could also be considered madness.

sudden uncontrollable fear or anxiety, often causing wildly unthinking behavior.
creation for Shiki ?
sure
kind make sense, he is the one who told Makoto about creation witch magic, and his staff is something he can summon like the silver arms.
also the goddess created hyumans.
that's a proof they can create stuff from mana, Mio can absorb those stuff.
Yeah, I was gonna bring it up in the revisions, but the goddess is actually stated to also have the power of creation. So yeah this is valid.

Not sure where Mio's absorption comes in.
what do you think about Tomoe's offshoot ?
As far as how strong she is? Well she's at least comparable to Lime iirc.
another proof darkness element= magic absorption
Agreed, I also have evidence of darkness being corrosion inducement.
 
Again, I was referring to the curse disease aspect of it.
yes, but it's more of corruption.
"Panic" could also be considered madness.
kind of, not sure
Not sure where Mio's absorption comes in.
I meant if the person or object was created from mana it could be absorb, like how the sword that eat other objects, or Sofia absorbing the dragons's soul and this
What I am trying to say is…

If he makes a pact with me, it would be the pact that is 10 times less than them, the “provisions pact” which will link us together.

Flatly saying, he would be absorbed and not even his existence would be left. I was reluctant, but Lich was also pretty pitiful. Because he was told off a lot by Tomoe and Mio.

Those girls got together and said that they didn’t want “me” to have an impurity mixed in within. To be called an impurity, I can’t even measure how he must be feeling.

Because he couldn’t even make it to slave relation with his own effort, I thought that the foundation in being my follower was impossible in itself. ch58
which remind of how Tsukuyomi disappear after he gave Makoto his blessing, I think Makoto absorb too much of his power because his manapool was too much for him.

As far as how strong she is? Well she's at least comparable to Lime iirc.
I meant is it something like avatar creation?
Agreed, I also have evidence of darkness being corrosion inducement.
where?
 
I meant if the person or object was created from mana it could be absorb, like how the sword that eat other objects, or Sofia absorbing the dragons's soul and this

which remind of how Tsukuyomi disappear after he gave Makoto his blessing, I think Makoto absorb too much of his power because his manapool was too much for him.
? Idk lol
I meant is it something like avatar creation?
Kind of, but not really? Komoe is essentially a completely different person from Tomoe at this point.
“W-What in the world…”

Yeah… You don’t understand right? You are a specialized one after all.

What I did was the corrosion of the darkness magic’s magic power. And it isn’t the acrobatics that Mio does. It’s the incredibly inefficient one.
“At the place that had turned silent, a sound like that resonates, and fire and mineral begin to fall to the ground one after the other.

Counting the lizard and the kid; they all had a big wound as if a mouth had crunched a piece of their body. They fell down and were continuously corroded by darkness until they disappeared.”
-Corrosion inducement for Mio with darkness.
 
The first corrosion statement is Makoto doing it, and there's plenty of people who can use darkness magic
agree, but it doesn't look that common
Makoto mentioned that Mio's web are dangerous to touch in their first fight, is that why?

when you gonna start the edit?
 
Things like PIR and the NEP conversation will be its own CRT.

Then AP and Speed CRTs and discussions

Then abilities and layers scaling.
 
The reason why I take so much to watch the episodes of the anime is that I can't see the anime calmly as I'm constantly searching for feats that could be calced, which in the case of this particular episode I just watched meant 30 minutes wasted in a LS calc for Toa party (like, I knew it wouldn't be much but still was considerable less than what I expected, it only ended as 4287.825kg (Class 5)). I only have 4 episodes left but they feel like a really hard trench to cross.
 
Other things that may need their own threads Include but are not limited to:

Makoto's fate/luck

The Size of The Goddess's World and Asora.

Maybe stuff on dragon roars and them being more expansive passive hax for root and maybe Tomoe with a few or more layers For example:
Mind Manipulation, Paralysis Inducement, Petrification, Fear Manipulation, Statistics Reduction, Biological Manipulation (Bodily Function Decrease), Power Null (Via Corrosion Inducement), Corruption type 2 (Along with Madness type 1 or 2)
 
Also the Goddess may need her own thread as well.

Legit like 25+ Abilities including stuff like EE from history, Law Manipulation, and Fate Manipulation.
 
Apparently the anime have a more detailed world map, which was something I wished so I'm happy with that, specially since some of the important cities are marked (the big red circle is Rostgard for example).

Episode 11 was good, like, I really liked how the merciless side of Makoto was despicted, how he killed the adventurer.
 
Also btw here's that Fate Manip for the goddess i was talking about.

“The goddess begins the discussion and lists the various wishes that she is able to grant such as immortality, unmatched beauty, the royal throne, any kind of sacred treasure – the material objects that one may desire and the miracles that she can make happen.” -Extra 4
“As a god, she is offering to alter people’s memories and even change their fates, but they are rejecting this suggestion.”-Extra 4
 
Also btw here's that Fate Manip for the goddess i was talking about.
First one is completely unreleated to fate manip, and the second one is meh to say the least as it seem more flowery language than something literal (in the sense that she can give them whatever status they desire as her words are absolute to everyone), you would need something more solid to give her fate manip.
 
First one is completely unreleated to fate manip, and the second one is meh to say the least as it seem more flowery language than something literal (in the sense that she can give them whatever status they desire as her words are absolute to everyone), you would need something more solid to give her fate manip.
Well, considering that both statements are in the same monologue I took "Miracles" and the later statement of "Change your fate" to be basically the same thing. Also, it's not flowery language given the added context of changing memories and that she's describing it as something she can actually do in the same vein as immortality granting and erasing memories (Both of which we know she can do).

Also Expec, what else do you think she's talking about when she says "Change your fate?"
 
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Well, considering that both statements are in the same monologue I took "Miracles" and the later statement of "Change your fate" to be basically the same thing. Also, it's not flowery language given the added context of changing memories and that she's describing it as something she can actually do in the same vein as immortality granting and erasing memories (Both of which we know she can do).

Also Expec, what else do you think she's talking about when she says "Change your fate?"
I mean, miracles is a really vague and absurdly broad word, like she could make someone have a full recovery a deathly illness or make an army win a battle by giving them a buff and both things would be considered miracles. Giving them whatever status they desire is something that she can very easily do at that point considering how she was the absolute ruler of the world, heck forget the status part just giving them a special ability (like the ones she gave to the heroes) would already be enough to "change the fate" of anybody.

That she can give them any status, ability, talent or object they desire as those things are that we know as a fact she can do because we have saw them before.
 
I mean, miracles is a really vague and absurdly broad word, like she could make someone have a full recovery a deathly illness or make an army win a battle by giving them a buff and both things would be considered miracles. Giving them whatever status they desire is something that she can very easily do at that point considering how she was the absolute ruler of the world, heck forget the status part just giving them a special ability (like the ones she gave to the heroes) would already be enough to "change the fate" of anybody.

That she can give them any status, ability, talent or object they desire as those things are that we know as a fact she can do because we have saw them before.
True. She could be talking about using some other ability to change their fate instead of directly controlling fate. More context is required for a solid listed I suppose. But the mention of fate and miracles cannot be completely overlooked I believe.
 
True. She could be talking about using some other ability to change their fate instead of directly controlling fate. More context is required for a solid listed I suppose. But the mention of fate and miracles cannot be completely overlooked I believe.
The miracles part can definitely be overlooked, the fate part could be remembered for future context that would support a literal fate manipulation.
 
Btw, yesterday I did something, so if any of you can make that a calc member evalute it (along with this other thing) then some upgrades will happen.
Also, assuming that trash nuke had the same size as the lake (which is already a big assumption) and doing some math with the explosion formula I get this:
W = R^3*((27136*P+8649)^(1/2)/13568-93/13568)^2
W = 2541,9169811320754716981132075472^3*((27136*1,37895+8649)^(1/2)/13568-93/13568)^2
W = 1319986.8433283026905024553721919 (1.31e+6) Tons of TNT or 1.31 Megatons (Low 7-B)
So it would be considerable less than Makoto lake (which would support my point that when they said it had a worse effect was due to the heat and radiation instead of the actual ap). For it to get above the lake it would be needed to assume the crater was exactly the same and use its mass multiplied for the vaporization value to get something around the 70 Gigatons (side note but the energy that Sofia would had taken would be less even in that case due to the distance and cross-section), problem with that method is that, besides the assumption that the crater had the same measurements (for it to have the same volume), I'm not actually sure if it would be allowed to go with the destruction values when the explosion formula exist specifically to address explosion feats.

So in short, trash nuke should continue to scale to the bombs of Japan.
 
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