TSSDK LARGE Tier Revisions

[Milly_Rocking_Bandit]

As confirmed here by GinSan, this translation:


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Which more or less translates to:


"The infinite Mobius system-a dream system created by genius scientist Almsvein.

With a theory different from nuclear, we continue to produce energy permanently in endless cycles.

Human dreams and all energy problems are solved. "

"... In a nutshell, it is a mechanism that utilizes the phenomenon that the mass is reduced to energy when the substance falls into the gravity vortex collapsor. By using two toroids, they interfere with each other, the theory you probably thought that the above could generate energy infinitely, but it is far from perfect and it seems to be a dangerous and dangerous item.


"If you think that growth rate = transition of time, when the expansive power disappears from this universe, the concept of time also disappears.

If expansion of the universe is positive energy, it can be said that the phenomenon occurring in front of you is negative energy. Negative energy is special and not of a nature that can be protected.

Veldora is not affected by almost all interference waves.

That means that "probability operation" is all-purpose.

Even if this was an attack from an enemy, it would not have passed.

Even if the world is destroyed, Veldora can move to other dimensions without being affected. "

But the reason this matters is because world=universe in this context:

"It's dangerous. This is too much power in the hands of people. If it makes a mistake, even this universe will collapse..."

"Hey, this is what it is?!! You, what on earth are you going to destroy the world for a while in my week when I was out !?"

Meaning True Dragons, and all that scale to them should be Low 2-C.

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

Isn't this cause of his probability hax and not necessarily him tanking anything? Hard to tell since idk the context since it's untranslated, but it says "probability operation" is all purpose so seems like hax.

And doesn't this take place in an afterstory literally decades after the end of series? Why exactly would it scale to all True Dragons instead of just Veldora, logically we would assume he got a massive power boost over the decades no? And we don't know how he compares to the other True Dragons then, unless it's stated somewhere in this after story.

 

[Milly_Rocking_Bandit]

Well, we aren't sure what "probabilty operation" is, but it does straight say that he isn't effected by the interference waves.

As for the time placement, I'm not neccesarily sure. But then again, nothing really says that he got stronger. We can assume, but I don't see the reason. Veldora doesn't look like the person to really train, bar him making a new fighting style because he was captivated by the manga he read.

 

[NeoSuperior]

I am not sure... Veldora was weaker than Yuuki who failed to destroy the world, though in that instance "the world" might have had the "multiverse" meaning instead.

But Veldora being able to tank the destruction of a universe is certainly a feat. Though what destroys the universe in this context is the Moebius system, not Veldora. Just saying that since it's not 100% clear from the OP. Veldora does get the survival feat though. Though I am not sure if it's coming from his space-time resistance or from being a True Dragon.

 

[Milly_Rocking_Bandit]

Multiverse? How did you get that? Not debating, just asking.

I'm going to assume it's him being a True Dragon, though.

 

[NeoSuperior]

I mean when Yuuki failed in the main story to "destroy the world", the meaning of "the world" might have been the whole Veldanava Multiverse, since "the world" seems to change meaning between the planet, the universe and the multiverse and needs to be deduced from the context every single time.

 

[Milly_Rocking_Bandit]

Ah, okay. So would it be 2-C or Low 2-C?

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

@Milly Probability operation obviously has something to do with his probability manipulation ability, for all we know he sets the probability of something happening to him to 0 hence the universe's destruction does nothing, in which case as i said it's just hax.

Rimuru's elegant escape which happens before this takes place 10 years after the tenma great war, this feat if accepted as a durability feat is vastly superior to anything Veldora has shown and above even Yuuki who couldn't even destroy the space-time continuum, though even excluding Yuuki, it's way above what we have seen from True Dragons, the only logical explanation is that Veldora got stronger over the decades.

Again assuming as i said it's not hax, which i think it is from what's been given.

 

[NeoSuperior]

"Probability operation" IS his "Probability Manipulation". The thing that gets translated by translator as "X Manipulation" always shows up as "X Operation" in GoogleTL. You can trust me on that since I have gone through that many times when I was checking the TL accuracy of the vol. 2 and vol. 5 character stat sheets. Rimuru's "Control Particles"(LN)/"Molecule Manipulation"(manga) also got translated as "Molecule Operation" by GoogleTL, for example.

And by the way, the word õ©çÞ⢠that got translated as "all-purpose" might not be quite accurate. It could also be something along the lines of either "universal" or even "all-mighty".

 

[Milly_Rocking_Bandit]

So, we count it only as his hax?

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

Well, that proves it's hax then.

He does this through manipulating probability and not his own durability.

 

[Milly_Rocking_Bandit]

That's rather disappointing, but at least we know that Veldora's probabilty hax works up to a Low 2-C range.

Well, there's always the Low 2-C Bleezbuth feat GHF22 always talks about... I'll ask GinSan later.

 

[Milly_Rocking_Bandit]

But also, while we're at it, shouldn't Carrera be High 4-C with Judgement Bullet?

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

Yes.

 

[Milly_Rocking_Bandit]

Should we just add it now?

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

Go ahead.

 

[NeoSuperior]

By the way... this is also proof that Veldora can exist in the 4D void, isn't it?

So his Resistance to Void Manipulation should be 4D with this, right?

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

Is he really resisting anything though? He's just manipulating probability so it doesn't affect him.

It just means after stories Veldora's probability manipulation is really broken.

 

[Elizhaa]

That's rather disappointing, but at least we know that Veldora's probabilty hax works up to a Low 2-C range.

It did seems like a Probability Manipulation feats/

In any case, seems like Veldora's hax work until 4-D so it might prove 4-D haxes for ultimate Skills later.

 

[NeoSuperior]

Is he really resisting anything though? He's just manipulating probability so it doesn't affect him.

It just means after stories Veldora's probability manipulation is really broken.

I am refering to the statement that "Veldora can go to another Universe after the current one is destroyed". Regardless of the method he used to survive the destruction of the Universe, he is still able to move within the void between Universes... since he obviously has to do that to go to another Universe.

 

[Elizhaa]

By the way... this is also proof that Veldora can exist in the 4D void, isn't it?
So his Resistance to Void Manipulation should be 4D with this, right?

It could be a True Void from Timeless Voids Standards since the Concept of Time doesn't exist: Type 3: "True" Voids: Voids that are stated to be timeless and are expressively shown to be such. They have many properties that would come with timelessness to the extent that it is undeniable they would qualify for Infinite speed. Examples: The Void Beyond in Final Fantasy XIII-2 and the Dark Area in Digimon.


I did think that his Probability Manipulation was limited 50% chance. I do think the feat could futher support Acausality Type 4 since Veldora would unaffected by the concept of time being nonexistent.

'Edit: Nevermind about the Probability Manipulation, there were no such limits.

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

@Neo I mean we don't give resistances to void manipulation for ever universe creator who existed before the creation of the universe, so idk, is existing in a void even the same as being erased to nothingness?

Veldora survives the initial destruction due to probability hax, he is just there afterwards, and it could just be again him manipulating probability why he could be in the void

Anyway i have way too many visual and light novels i have been putting off that i need to get to, so i will get back to that.

 

[Elizhaa]

@Celestial Pegasus, being able to exists in the Void usually give Immeasureable speed. If the context is right, it might be able to prove Acausality Type 4.


In any case, Veldora's feat seems to prove Hax can on a 4-D scale.

 

[Wokistan]

I don't think that's how voids generally work. Not every void erases everything that comes into contact with it, and a timeless void only gets infinite at beas.t

 

[Milly_Rocking_Bandit]

Doesn't this also prove that US are 4D? I mean, if his basic probability hax can protect him from a universal destruction, I'm certain his other US are on the same level of dimensionality if not higher.

 

[NeoSuperior]

IIRC the statement that follows right after where the OP cut off mentions something about Veldora only being able to survive due to his high amount of energy reserves.

 

[Milly_Rocking_Bandit]

So does that mean he can survive via sheer durabilty?

 

[NeoSuperior]

I mean at a minumum all the "going beyond space-time" statements now have more credibility for possibly being actual 4D and not just High 3-A as previously assumed.

 

[Elizhaa]

I don't think that's how voids generally work. Not every void erases everything that comes into contact with it, and a timeless void only gets infinite at beas.t

Yeah, infinite, my bad there, I almost forgot about it since it used to be Immeasurable up until a year ago.

 

[NeoSuperior]

So does that mean he can survive via sheer durabilty?

In the context of surviving in the void.

 

[GLHF22]

Also vdora should get Resistance to Concept manip type 3, that attack is able to absorbs concepts of time

 

[NeoSuperior]

Oh right it does mention that "even if it's an attack", as in not just the time passively withering away due to negative energy, but rather the destruction of the universe and its space-time continuum being actively targeted and destroyed.

 

[GLHF22]

"If you think that growth rate = transition of time, when the expansive power disappears from this universe, the concept of time also disappears."

 

[GLHF22]

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"No, it does not affect other dimensions. Only this universe loses its growth rate and it only results in zero " "it's simple. To put it this way, Gluttonous King Beelzebub It is a phenomenon similar to. Energy dissipation to minus, not energy release to plus is a problem. However, the action is the same. Since energy has direction, it would be fine if you manipulate it - "

"It's a supposition, but My Skill Gluttonous King Beelzebub If it was runaway, I think it will be like it is now.

ÒÇÇSo, I can understand how to deal with it.

ÒÇÇWhether it is expansion or disappearance, force has direction. There is a flow in energy, so stop the flow.

ÒÇÇIn other words, it is time stop.

ÒÇÇIf we stop the time, the negative energy that continues to expand also stops."

 

[NeoSuperior]

I think based on context all instances of MTL resulting in "runaway" are supposed to be something like "run amok" or "go out of control".

 

[GLHF22]

In other words, if Rimuru cant control Beelzebub it Will swallow Universe, and This is not the first time Veldora reaisting Beelzebub, since Rimuru once Absorbs Veldora with Beelzebub, Rimuru said if Veldora was concious he definitely cant absorbs him, and Beelzebub is comparable to this attack which Veldora Resist

 

[NeoSuperior]

Well damn. Wouldn't this pretty much confirm that Beelzebub is not only 4D, but also includes Concept Manipulation Type 3? Though it would not be combat appliable since Rimuru lacks the energy to do that in his earlier key(s), unless it's a specific situation where Rimuru is bloodlusted and is certain that he is unable to win so he just lets Beelzebub run wild for an incon caused by both sides dying.

 

[GLHF22]

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--- This is a bad thing, Veldora thought.

ÒÇÇIt is not impossible to cancel the energy that leaks out, but it is difficult to stop the sucking power.

ÒÇÇGravity Collapse If it is satisfied until it is satisfied, it will be saturated and the state will be stabilized. But that is Gbravity Collapser If there were only one, it was a story.

ÒÇÇIn the eyes of Veldora, there are two Gravity Collapse could see.

ÒÇÇOne of the substances that one inhales is released as pure energy.

ÒÇÇIt is greedy, that is, having a 'gasbag' that never gets filled Beelzebub was a figure like ....


"-Because it looks like the power of Rimuru?"

"That's right."


ÒÇÇRamiris came to the answer, and Verdura said it was the correct answer.


"What do you do? As it is, everyone ..."


ÒÇÇAs Ramiris said, Veldora does not answer immediately.

ÒÇÇIf Veldora really tries to neutralize it, it will earn considerable time.

ÒÇÇHowever, other means, such as "sequestration" by barriers, have been difficult to curb energy of this magnitude.

ÒÇÇEventually the world will be ruined.

ÒÇÇAfter all, the digit is different.

ÒÇÇIt's good now, but if you leave it as it is it is enough to swallow this universe.


"I can not help you .... I will not proceed, but I will try to suppress it with my spirits."

"Are you okay?"

"I have nothing to do."

Veldora tank it Via His Aura and use probability manip to support it

 

[Elizhaa]

Wait, did he neutralized it?

 

[GLHF22]

No, he fail to neutralize it so he just hold it until Rimuru came