Trinity Seven CRT

[Dereck03]

WTF with this massive wank??? Verse just cap at 5-A but rendy and now delta's wanking... I'll nuke the verse when rendy's not looking Disagree

Agree, this seems fine. with nuking the verse

 

[Reiner04]

Agree, this seems fine

How much did they pay?

 

[Robo432343]

 

[Delta333]

WTF with this massive wank??? Verse just cap at 5-A but rendy and now delta's wanking... I'll nuke the verse when rendy's not looking Disagree

Agree, this seems fine. with nuking the verse

Do I have enough agreements to start the 48 hours grace period?

 

[Reiner04]

Do I have enough agreements to start the 48 hours grace period?

You do.

 

[Fixxed]

Do I have enough agreements to start the 48 hours grace period?

Yeah and you must count @Rendynoc0unter agreement. So you have 4 staff approval and ready to apply

 

[Rendynoc0unter]

I agree with Heavenly Realm, and Akashic Record.

Neutral for the rest.

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

Agree FRA

 

[The_Emperor4th]

Trinity 7D was unexpected, but, neat, regardless.

Though I can’t say about ID, know nothing about the verse and those are irrelevant to the overall point, so, no use in nitpicking that.

To add instantly, we know that Archieve is a higher dimensions that is unrecognizable and unreachable level for a magus and human based on the glossary, and it’s been stated at the early of the series begin.

The seven deadly sins are the names of the magical classifications. The seven sins are arrogance, envy, anger, sloth, greed, lust, and lust for sex. It is said to exist in a higher dimension called the center of the world, a level unrecognizable by the human brain, and certainly unreachable by a living body. Therefore, mages connect to the "archives" by flying their consciousness and spirit to that level. The topics of mages' research always belong to one of these seven categories. - (Archieve) Glossary #3 Chapter: 2

The Heavenly realm folks (especially referring to Adjudicators/Arbitrators) possessing a magic power much higher than people in surface world through “Clouds”, making them magic powers equal to those of Gods, who is a higher dimensional being that already transcend space-time. To quote from the glossary:

The Highest-Ranked Archive that guides magic. It is directly linked to The Wisdom of The Gods; those who connect to it can use magic powers equal to those of Gods. However, when connected in the normal world, it depletes one's magical reserves severely, and even high-ranking maguses will have their magic sapped in minutes. The Adjudicators of The Heavenly Realm boast of inexhaustible supplies of magic, so they mainly use connections to the Cloud. They can obtain even more overwhelmingly powerful magic than when connecting to the Archives, but coming close to such God-Like levels brings with it tremendous risk. - (Clouds) Glossary #86 Chapter: 125

Which following with the next scans, given that Clouds is higher dimensions and also more archetypal than the Archives. Unlike the Archive, Clouds can exclusively be used by the Adjudicators or someone that possesses a very high-level magic (like Paladin and Great Demon Lord class), or has a potential to use the lost Archive, like Selina cases (of course, she possesses a high-level magic) to become the candidates of the next Adjudicators in the Heavenly realm.

Talking about Heavenly realm and the level, for the reference:

The Peak of Yggdrasil and a location positioned at the center of all worlds. Through collecting cultures from the worlds connected to Yggdrasil, it is magically and scientifically advanced . The residents of The Heavenly Realm, who are descendants of "The Caretakers of Yggdrasil," live so peacefully that it’s comical, but when driven to war, they possess such strength that only High-Level Maguses are able to hold their own against them. The Heavenly Realm is ruled by The Twelve Adjudicators, but there are few people left who have ever seen all of them assembled together at once. - (Heavenly Realm) Glossary #81 Chapter: 119

A gauge to indicate the stage one's existence is at, at the soul level. The closer one is to being "The Origin of All Things (Akashic Record)," the higher one's level. Also, someone with a high level will have The Wisdom of All Worlds, so they become close to a being of the Fourth Dimension (transcending time and space). It is also a criterion for how well versed one is in the magical arts as a Magus. Humans can reach the level of "Demon Lord" class, and that is the level most Maguses aspire to. - (Level) Glossary #90 Chapter: 128

So to say that, the magus who is a high-level is seems to been stated that they closely enough to transcending the space-time (4D), while we fundamentally know that Heavenly realms folks like Adjudicators, are far superior even compared to a regular high-level magus due to already transcend the space-time (5D).

with the baseline spacetime being the smallest dot in that map despite its infinite in size already.

Tackling only this part from the OP, the infinite futures stuff there is actually not referring to the infinite size of the space-time, but rather than they talk about how her research gives a pretty good result by traveling the infinite possibilities or infinite space-time (looking that she talk about future). Especially since the one who says that is Master Liber, who was given the title of “Archbishop” among the Adjudicators, experts in terms of future predictions and has been worshipping and researching a way out of all systems of God.

This is the title given to Master Liber who is of The "Paladin" class of magus and one of the wings of the "Heavenly Adjudicators." after having spent an unimaginable amount of time researching magic and traveling to a multitude of dimensions and space-times, she arrived at a particular truth. One who has witnessed that truth for even a second is shown great respect and given this title. Liber is one of the oldest of all the Adjudicators and has changed physical vessels a number of times already. The title of "Archbishop" was bestowed upon her for her control over the army of evil gods; it's not a title one simply inherits. - (Archbishop) Glossary #77 Chapter: 109

 

[Delta333]

infinite possibilities or infinite space-time

It says infinite future rather than infinite futures so I don't think it refers to the amount of possibilities, as for infinite space-time I don't think it's any different than saying a spacetime is infinite in size?

That said, I'm sure the series has a lot of statements about each world being infinite in size though I need to spend time to find them if you want.

 

[Delta333]

Just found some other scans about infinite space time, such as here and here

 

[Bobsican]

If you can explain for me why ID has better explanation then go ahead and tell me what's the difference here? Although trust me you will not know anything about ID context better than me at all. Again can you stop acting like "higher dimension" and "physically inaccessible" being metioned is the main reasons to begin with? As I already said, are you capable of just focusing on why higher dimension containing the lower one is not enough instead?

Eh, I guess I'll just go on the area you insist and just handle it.

So... a so-called "higher dimension" containing a "lower dimension" isn't grounds for tier 1 for several reasons here:

1: This "dimension" clearly isn't infinite on all of its axises, currently it's being conceded that it's located in the center of the multiverse, and while we default the space between universes as a 5-D structure as much the universes can be distanced from each other (which is also clearly the case here), the fact that it doesn't just fully encompass this space, nor is such space itself (the space between universes) confirmed to be infinitely sized, leans into this not meeting sufficient criteria to qualify for tier 1. Have you ever wondered why we don't just make characters that are merely stated to be higher dimensional (or even with direct numbers, say, "10-D") tier 1? This is part of why.

2: The perspective given from the so-called higher-dimensional characters in relation to the lower-d stuff isn't really explained sufficiently to lean this way, if anything it's confirmed they feed on universal structures, as far the conclusions of the thread that got them a 2-A cosmology went.

First of all, Ultima once said that it's normal for a higher dimension to exist within the lower dimension and afaik Nasuverse has 6-D earth just fine.
Second of all I'm not even sure if we read the same Trinity Seven or not because this scan outright shows that Akashic Record is not contained within any lower dimensions around it at all.

IIRC 6-D Nasuverse is actually being contested right now, so I wouldn't rely on that.
As for Instant Death, it has a more elaborate Reality to Fiction stuff than here, quoting from the OP of that thread:

First thing of notice, in Volume 4 a (literal) higher-dimensional plane was introduced, the Abyss. It is 5th-dimensional and it explicitly states that people from lower dimensions cannot perceive the higher ones in any way, in addition of those Lower-D beings being compared to a character on book page (Reality-fiction difference). The King can also use the Abyss to frelly traverse through lower-dimensional space easily and in many ways due to his superiority over those.

Let alone ID's case not having a ton of anti-implications that lead into tier 1 being overly assumptive at best.

Anyways, considering this is a tier 1 revision generally way more staff input (particularly of VSBW Thread Moderators or above, the one of Content Mods don't count as staff input for this kind of threads) will be required, so I wouldn't even consider to put this in grace yet.

 

[The_Emperor4th]

It says infinite future rather than infinite futures so I don't think it refers to the amount of possibilities, as for infinite space-time I don't think it's any different than saying a spacetime is infinite in size?

Using the official translation, it pretty much says futures. She can see the future tho.

But aside from that, it seems weird imo to use infinite futures as an evidence to claim the space-time is in infinite size (at least with Liber cases), since generally most of the fiction always refers future as a possibilties.

That said, I'm sure the series has a lot of statements about each world being infinite in size though I need to spend time to find them if you want.

Sure I guess, I can wait.

The only things that I can find from the manga (considering that they talked about in terms of size) is The Dante Gate for having infinite size in chapter 59


EDIT:

Just found some other scans about infinite space time, such as here and here

Use this in the OP then, I disagree using Master Liber statement to prove the size of the space-time.

 

[Delta333]

I wouldn't even consider to put this in grace yet.

You don't have any authority here so I don't need to care, also I can't help but laugh so ******* hard right now when you use the fake scan of Instant death (created by a vsb user) to say that it's a legit statement. Lmfao do you truly think that such R-F statement exists in Instant Death? Go ahead and give me that chapter right now if you think you can? Please?

This "dimension" clearly isn't infinite on all of its axises

Just found some other scans about infinite space time, such as here and here

Feel free to explain to me why infinite does not mean infinite

2: The perspective given from the so-called higher-dimensional characters in relation to the lower-d stuff isn't really explained sufficiently to lean this way, if anything it's confirmed they feed on universal structures, as far the conclusions of the thread that got them a 2-A cosmology went.

I already told you to return to this thread again when you have an answer as for why lower dimension being embedded within higher dimension is not enough for our standard. Is it really that hard to understand?

Use this in the OP then, I disagree using Master Liber statement to prove the size of the space-time.

I will, what do you think about the rest of this thread?

 

[The_Emperor4th]

Should be good I suppose, but I prefer something like this:

Possibly/likely 5D for Heavenly realm
5D for Archive
6D for Clouds
7D for Gods (if we include her)
7D higher/8D (?) for Akashic Records

 

[Rendynoc0unter]

Possibly/likely 5D for Heavenly realm

No, Heavenly blatantly received a solid rating, as did Archive.

5D for Archive
6D for Clouds

Yes

7D for Gods (if we include her)

For all gods, not include Aryan sama

7D higher/8D (?) for Akashic Records

8-D

 

[The_Emperor4th]

No, Heavenly blatantly received a solid rating, as did Archive.

It should be possibly/likely imo, since I can think many counter arguments at that part.

For all gods, not include Aryan sama

For her true form, yes it is.

 

[Lonkitt]

Looks fine

 

[Delta333]

For now I haven't had any idea for 8-D yet.

 

[The_Emperor4th]

It should be 8D, if we count Selina as Trinity 8 members.

 

[Bobsican]

You don't have any authority here so I don't need to care, also I can't help but laugh so ******* hard right now when you use the fake scan of Instant death (created by a vsb user) to say that it's a legit statement. Lmfao do you truly think that such R-F statement exists in Instant Death? Go ahead and give me that chapter right now if you think you can? Please?

Besides that claim being unfriendly, I'm just saying stuff based on the site standards:

• Blogs for 2-A or higher tier and particularly controversial powers will be subject to extra scrutiny and will need the approval of staff members.

Anyways, then don't rely on a outdated CRT to push your claim, it acts as a misleading bad example.

Either way, remembering further of the little time I bothered participating in Instant Death CRTs, it had to do with a simple direct upward hierarchy of universes within universes, with the "baseline reality" being one of the lower "universes", while in here a lot is being extrapolated from quite little that's remotely valid.

Feel free to explain to me why infinite does not mean infinite

...Considering the context they're clearly just talking about universal structures, not any space that's being argued for as tier 1, let alone being compared as infinitely larger than them, not every mention of infinity leans on a qualitatively superior sense. In fact we default "infinite space-time" statements to just Low 2-C.

I already told you to return to this thread again when you have an answer as for why lower dimension being embedded within higher dimension is not enough for our standard. Is it really that hard to understand?

I already did at this point, it's just not that simple with the given explanations for the setting, it's not only a matter of meeting certain criteria and calling it a day, but such criteria overall being consistent with all the known details of the setting.

You keep focusing so much into this semantic, while ignoring how i debunked several other points in grounds of just "nitpicking", you really like the false premise fallacy, huh?

 

[Rendynoc0unter]

It should be possibly/likely imo, since I can think many counter arguments at that part

For now I haven't had any idea for 8-D yet.

Right now, I've compiled it, and I'm just waiting to get a few more glossaries to confirm my arguments.

Like the glossary (clouds, etc), on the manga site I read, I didn't find it.

So, at this time I will not publish the 8-d, poss 9d argument for Aryan sama

 

[Reiner04]

4 staff approval should be enough now.

 

[Delta333]

being called as infinite spacetime = anti feat of Tier 1 structure

Anyways I have counted your vote as a disagreement so there's no point to argue with you.

 

[Lesser_Goddess_Alexia]

Count me as agree

 

[Bobsican]

being called as infinite spacetime = anti feat of Tier 1 structure

I never said that you strawman, I'm saying that's not usable proof of tier 1 as is, rather than it being an anti-feat.

Anyways I have counted your vote as a disagreement so there's no point to argue with you.

Currently, I guess.

 

[Abstractly_a_Protagonist]

Delta argument sold me in.
Count me as agreeing for now.

 

[ImmortalDread]

Delta, I was doing that as a joke when I suggested low 1-C months ago ;-;

 

[ImmortalDread]

I have a lot to say, but given that staff members have already agreed with it, I think my explanation will be useless. So a downgrade thread can be followed by me.
Funny enough that you were good till low 1-C but afterward you did not even explain any qualitative superiority that reaches 7D.

 

[Delta333]

You can try.

 

[ImmortalDread]

Anyway, call Ultima to the thread, so he can review it.

 

[Delta333]

Okay.

@Elizhaa, @Ultima_Reality, @Qawsedf234, @DarkDragonMedeus, @LordGriffin1000

Your opinion is very much appreciated here.

 

[Shereen]

2: The perspective given from the so-called higher-dimensional characters in relation to the lower-d stuff isn't really explained sufficiently to lean this way, if anything it's confirmed they feed on universal structures, as far the conclusions of the thread that got them a 2-A cosmology went.

Bruh, Gurren laga is a fiction that applies the lower dimension that is present in the higher dimension because it uses brane cosmology as a reference for its cosmology.

...Considering the context they're clearly just talking about universal structures, not any space that's being argued for as tier 1, let alone being compared as infinitely larger than them, not every mention of infinity leans on a qualitatively superior sense. In fact we default "infinite space-time" statements to just Low 2-C.

Space-time infinite already refers to the infinite number of space-time, which means there are as many space-time continumm as infinite, what is described in the standard tiering system means that space-time is meant to have an infinite size in space, you are mistaken about it.

 

[ImmortalDread]

Shouldn't you try to focus on why higher dimension containing the lower one is not enough instead?

No???? This is outright wrong. An infinity can contain another without being qualitative suprior to it.

 

[Godsatoshi23]

Shouldn't you try to focus on why higher dimension containing the lower one is not enough instead?

If the lower dimension is infinite in size and still contained by another higher dimension which is also bigger than the lower dimension. Then I agree with the upgrade.

 

[Delta333]

No???? This is outright wrong. An infinity can contain another without being qualitative suprior to it.

Because that infinity was never called a higher dimension? When a lower dimension is embedded within the higher dimension then it would be straightforward as tier 1 according to our standard. I have asked Ultima about this and he said it's the reason why Brane cosmology is tier 1 in the first place, as long as the lower dimension is infinite in size (or you can read the ID thread, obviously if you can point out the difference then please do)

If you think I'm trying to argue that "infinity contains other infinity hence it's greater infinity" and you proceed to say that "uhmm no natural number contains integer number but both are equally countably infinite" then no, that's not what I mean.

 

[ImmortalDread]

If the lower dimension is infinite in size and still contained by another higher dimension. Then I agree with the upgrade.

No, this is not how qualitative superiority works, simply being inside an infinity does not give the set a bigger size.

 

[Delta333]

If you think I'm trying to argue that "infinity contains other infinity hence it's greater infinity" and you proceed to say that "uhmm no natural number contains integer number but both are equally countably infinite" then no, that's not what I mean.

 

[ImmortalDread]

I literally saw the message now

 

[Shereen]

Because that infinity was never called a higher dimension? When a lower dimension is embedded within the higher dimension then it would be straightforward as tier 1 according to our standard. I have asked Ultima about this and he said it's the reason why Brane cosmology is tier 1 in the first place, as long as the lower dimension is infinite in size (or you can read the ID thread, obviously if you can point out the difference then please do)

No, the lower plane present in the higher plane will not place the lower plane as a plane comparable to the higher plane (having the same dimensions) in brane cosmology, The reason why the brane cosmology is placed in tier 1 is because Brane is a higher dimension where there is a lower dimension present in the brane, this is like there is a ball contained in the box it's just the difference in the quantity of dimensions, Which means that fiction that applies the existence of brane cosmology, will be counted as a whole, this is similar to fictional stories that are present in reality, the fictional story will not have the same dimensional quality as us.