Trinity Seven CRT

[Delta333]

The purpose of this thread is to upgrade the cosmology of T7 from 2-A to 1-C structure. It's worth noting that we're not gonna talk about the scaling here as it will be saved in another thread should this be accepted. Thanks @Rendynoc0unter for providing some scans btw.

First of all, there exist Archives (alternate spaces) that are the power sources for Magus of the main 4-D worlds to draw upon, and they're said to belong to a higher dimension (5-D space) called the center of the universe, and, apparently, this dimension is inaccessible and incomprehensible relative to lower dimensional being.

Translation: #3 Archive "The seven deadly sins are the names of the magical classifications. The seven sins are arrogance, envy, anger, sloth, greed, lust, and lust for sex. It is said to exist in a higher dimension called the center of the world, a level unrecognizable by the human brain, and certainly unreachable by a living body. Therefore, mages connect to the "archives" by flying their consciousness and spirit to that level. The topics of mages' research always belong to one of these seven categories."

Now we know that this higher dimension is actually the Heavenly Realm as the Heavenly Realm is described as the center of the universe as well, and that apparently aligns with how this realm can only be accessed by those who can transcend spacetime (that is, to be superior to countably infinite 4-D structures).

Translation of yellow box: "Mages who have mastered the art of magic in various worlds and acquired the power to transcend time and space also lived in the world."

If Magus in the 4-D worlds draws power upon the Archives of the 5-D Heavenly Realm, then the Arbitrator in the 5-D Heavenly Realm will draw power upon the Clouds of even higher and more archetypal dimension, from this, it can be inferred that there is a 6-D structure that's superior to 5-D realm in the similar way that the 5-D realm being superior to infinite 4-D worlds.

Last but not least, we have the Akashic Record, the vortex of origin where all realities stemmed from, which is stated to be the pure and utter chaos that's unable to calculate by even those who have access to the Cloud such as Selina, with an inaccessible nature, and we know that it's a higher dimension as it's where the gods originate and belong to, who are stated to be higher dimensional concepts for numerous times. So this is a 7-D layer of transcendent existences, hence the only way to completely destroy them is to send attacks that transcend dimensions as well.

Obviously, there's a qualitative gap between these higher and lower dimensions, as according to Abyss Trinity, the Akashic Record is where infinite worlds exist within (or according to the glossary, the idea frame/underlying concept of something is the "prototype of all" within the Akashic Record, which means, the Akashic Records contain all things in nature as so far nothing in the verse is stated to exist without fundamental concept). To quote from our Tiering System FAQ's page:

One of the more straightforward ways to qualify for Tier 2 and up through higher dimensions is by affecting whole higher-dimensional universes which can embed the whole of lower-dimensional ones within themselves. For example: A cosmology where the entirety of our 3-dimensional universe is in fact a subset of a much greater 4-dimensional space, or generalizations of this same scenario to higher numbers of dimensions; i.e A cosmology where the four-dimensional spacetime continuum is just the infinitesimal surface of a 5-dimensional object, and etc.

So needless to say, the dimensions in Trinity do qualify as a 7-D model according to our standard, but to further showcase that the higher dimensions here are non-trivial in size rather than some sort of compact dimension, we are given a cosmological map that illustrates the higher dimension, the larger its size seems to be, with the baseline spacetime being the smallest dot in that map despite its infinite in size already. The map also shows us that the Akashic Record is located as the center of all creation and if the Akashic Record is already qualitatively superior to infinite worlds thanks to that nature, then the Heavenly Realm should be qualitatively superior to the 4-D spacetimes in the similar fashion as well since as I already said, it's the center of the 4-D universe. The fact that the Akashic Record also has transcendent, incomprehensible and inaccessible nature relative to 6-D structure being similar to how the Heavenly Realm is transcendent, incomprehensible and inaccessible to inhabitants of 4-D spacetimes further proves that all higher dimensions in the verse trivialize the lower dimensions with a similar extent.

Tldr:
Higher dimension of the Archives/Heavenly Realm: 5-D
Higher dimension of the Clouds: 6-D
The Akashic Record: 7-D

Agree: 23 (Setsuna_tenma, Reiner, PainKiller07, DarkDragonMedeus, Fikriskps, God900, Catpija, Planck69, Fixxed, Artorimachi_Meteoraft, Robo, PDB123456789, Shereen, Rabbit2002, Dereck03, EldemadeDityjon, Rendynoc0unter (Neutral about the Cloud), Lonkitt, Thunderian, Abstractly_a_Protagonist, Godsatoshi23,
Nexp06, Rakih_Elyan)
Disagree: 2 (Bobsican, ImmortalDread)
Neutral:

 

[Setsuna_tenma]

agree

 

[Delta333]

why say 6D with 5D is the same as 5D with 6D, is there further supporting evidence?

Can you read mr one reply who legitimately create this ******* account to complain about my thread?

 

[Rendynoc0unter]

As we know, the Archives is a Realm, so will this make the Archives 5-D?, and Magus connected to the Archive, will get 5-D Hax?

 

[Delta333]

As we know, the Archives is a Realm, so will this make the Archives 5-D?, and Magus connected to the Archive, will get 5-D Hax?

The existence of the Archives are 5-D, yea, as for hax maybe 5-D too? Though I prefer to talk about that in another thread as we need the cosmology having accepted first.

For the time being can you ping some staff there?

 

[Rendynoc0unter]

For the time being can you ping some staff there?

sure, who do I need to ping?

 

[Reiner04]

Agree FRA.

 

[Reiner04]

sure, who do I need to ping?

Elizhaa, ultima, Qawsed, DDM, lonkitt, lordgriffin.

 

[Rendynoc0unter]

Elizhaa, ultima, Qawsed, DDM, lonkitt, lordgriffin.

Okay.

@Elizhaa, @Ultima_Reality, @Qawsedf234, @DarkDragonMedeus, @LordGriffin1000

Your opinion is very much appreciated here.

 

[Delta333]

Okay.

@Elizhaa, @Ultima_Reality, @Qawsedf234, @DarkDragonMedeus, @LordGriffin1000

Your opinion is very much appreciated here.

Can you pink Planck too?

 

[Rendynoc0unter]

Can you pink Planck too?

sure, @Planck69

 

[PainKiller07]

Agree with the proposals

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

Looks alright from a glance.

 

[Fikriskps]

Clear And Fine

 

[God900]

Clear and straightforward, count me as agree.
I was already planning this CRT, but you ninjae'd me kek.

 

[Rendynoc0unter]

sorry, i'm confused in the archive section, could you please explain again why 5-d archive?

and what does archive have to do with heaven?

 

[CallMeWiertz]

agree

 

[Catpija]

Agree

 

[Delta333]

sorry, i'm confused in the archive section, could you please explain again why 5-d archive?

and what does archive have to do with heaven?

Archive exists in the heavenly realm, that's the only relationship between them.

 

[Planck69]

Seems good to me. Count me as Agree for now.

 

[Rendynoc0unter]

Archive exists in the heavenly realm, that's the only relationship between them.

how can it be like that?, while the Archives itself has its own realm, such as Archive Acedia, Archive invidia.

Besides, if the Archives is 5-D. Then all Magus must be able to exist in Heavenly Realm?, because Heavenly itself is a 5-D Realm as you said, and to exist in Heavenly Realm, you must have powers that has transcended dimensions.

So, why is it that in the glossary Archives, they can't reach and think about that place. isn't this a contradiction?.

Also, if the Archives are in Heaven, why is Arata currently in the Invidia Archives, when Heaven is currently being ruled by the Gods?

So, this proves that the Archives have their own dimension, not in heaven. imo

 

[Delta333]

how can it be like that?, while the Archives itself has its own realm, such as Archive Acedia, Archive invidia.

Besides, if the Archives is 5-D. Then all Magus must be able to exist in Heavenly Realm?, because Heavenly itself is a 5-D Realm as you said, and to exist in Heavenly Realm, you must have powers that has transcended dimensions.

So, why is it that in the glossary Archives, they can't reach and think about that place. isn't this a contradiction?.

Also, if the Archives are in Heaven, why is Arata currently in the Invidia Archives, when Heaven is currently being ruled by the Gods?

So, this proves that the Archives have their own dimension, not in heaven. imo

I mean nothing prevents them from having their own realms while being parts of the heaven.

 

[Bobsican]

Now we know that this higher dimension is actually the Heavenly Realm as the Heavenly Realm is described as the center of the universe as well, and that apparently aligns with how this realm can only be accessed by those who can transcend spacetime (that is, to be superior to countably infinite 4-D structures).

Translation of yellow box: "Mages who have mastered the art of magic in various worlds and acquired the power to transcend time and space also lived in the world."

Assuming this "universe" is meant to be what we on the site usually call a multiverse... well, the thing is that we require a 5-D space to be infinite in all of its axises, and if it's only relegated to a given section in the 5-D space between universes (its center), it wouldn't really qualify as a qualitative superiority, it'd have to fully encompass the entire 2-A multiverse.

If Magus in the 4-D worlds draws power upon the Archives of the 5-D Heavenly Realm, then the Arbitrator in the 5-D Heavenly Realm will draw power upon the Clouds of even higher and more archetypal dimension, from this, it can be inferred that there is a 6-D structure that's superior to 5-D realm in the similar way that the 5-D realm being superior to infinite 4-D worlds.

Even if 5-D was legit, this is way too vague, a mere "higher dimension" is brought up without further context or comparisons for the purposes of deeming if it's a qualitative superiority or not.

Last but not least, we have the Akashic Record, the vortex of origin where all realities stemmed from, which is stated to be the pure and utter chaos that's unable to calculate by even those who have access to the Cloud such as Selina, with an inaccessible nature, and we know that it's a higher dimension as it's where the gods originate and belong to, who are stated to be higher dimensional concepts for numerous times. So this is a 7-D layer of transcendent existences, hence the only way to completely destroy them is to send attacks that transcend dimensions as well.

Something being incalculable is irrelevant to see if something is qualitatively superior or not, as much we don't even grant immeasurable speed by merely being higher-d, it isn't explained how it isn't inaccessible in that scan, and these mentions of "higher dimensions" are still vague, see the above paragraph.
Transcending time and space means quite little for our purposes on its own, and the other provided "proof" does no favors to push for a qualitative superiority, let alone further ones. The last bit also seems just a big way to just say what to us is (presumably better than their usual) interdimensional range.

Obviously, there's a qualitative gap between these higher and lower dimensions, as according to Abyss Trinity, the Akashic Record is where infinite worlds exist within (or according to the glossary, the idea frame/underlying concept of something is the "prototype of all" within the Akashic Record, which means, the Akashic Records contain all things in nature as so far nothing in the verse is stated to exist without fundamental concept). To quote from our Tiering System FAQ's page:

One of the more straightforward ways to qualify for Tier 2 and up through higher dimensions is by affecting whole higher-dimensional universes which can embed the whole of lower-dimensional ones within themselves. For example: A cosmology where the entirety of our 3-dimensional universe is in fact a subset of a much greater 4-dimensional space, or generalizations of this same scenario to higher numbers of dimensions; i.e A cosmology where the four-dimensional spacetime continuum is just the infinitesimal surface of a 5-dimensional object, and etc.

Sounds more like just Conceptual Manip, rather than another qualitative superiority.

So needless to say, the dimensions in Trinity do qualify as a 7-D model according to our standard, but to further showcase that the higher dimensions here are non-trivial in size rather than some sort of compact dimension, we are given a cosmological map that illustrates the higher dimension, the larger its size seems to be,

I'm going to stop you right there, you're straight up admitting to pull downright speculation here, especially as all prior proof is quite inappropiate to claim tier 1 as explained before.

First of all, there exist Archives (alternate spaces) that are the power sources for Magus of the main 4-D worlds to draw upon, and they're said to belong to a higher dimension (5-D space) called the center of the universe, and, apparently, this dimension is inaccessible and incomprehensible relative to lower dimensional being.

Translation: #3 Archive "The seven deadly sins are the names of the magical classifications. The seven sins are arrogance, envy, anger, sloth, greed, lust, and lust for sex. It is said to exist in a higher dimension called the center of the macrocosm, a level unrecognizable by the human brain, and certainly unreachable by a living body. Therefore, mages connect to the "archives" by flying their consciousness and spirit to that level. The topics of mages' research always belong to one of these seven categories."

with the baseline spacetime being the smallest dot in that map despite its infinite in size already. The map also shows us that the Akashic Record is located as the center of all creation and if the Akashic Record is already qualitatively superior to infinite worlds thanks to that nature, then the Heavenly Realm should be qualitatively superior to the 4-D spacetimes in the similar fashion as well since as I already said, it's the center of the 4-D universe. The fact that the Akashic Record also has transcendent, incomprehensible and inaccessible nature relative to 6-D structure being similar to how the Heavenly Realm is transcendent, incomprehensible and inaccessible to inhabitants of 4-D spacetimes further proves that all higher dimensions in the verse trivialize the lower dimensions with a similar extent.

Uh... qualitatively superior spaces can't fit within what'd be a lower-d space to begin with, so that shuts the premise of it being qualitatively superior in the first place on the foot. I already debunked the other points.

Overall I disagree with everything.

 

[Delta333]

Assuming this "universe" is meant to be what we on the site usually call a multiverse... well, the thing is that we require a 5-D space to be infinite in all of its axises, and if it's only relegated to a given section in the 5-D space between universes (its center), it wouldn't really qualify as a qualitative superiority, it'd have to fully encompass the entire 2-A multiverse.

So needless to say, the dimensions in Trinity do qualify as a 7-D model according to our standard, but to further showcase that the higher dimensions here are non-trivial in size rather than some sort of compact dimension, we are given a cosmological map that illustrates the higher dimension, the larger its size seems to be, with the baseline spacetime being the smallest dot in that map despite its infinite in size already. The map also shows us that the Akashic Record is located as the center of all creation and if the Akashic Record is already qualitatively superior to infinite worlds thanks to that nature, then the Heavenly Realm should be qualitatively superior to the 4-D spacetimes in the similar fashion as well since as I already said, it's the center of the 4-D universe. The fact that the Akashic Record also has transcendent, incomprehensible and inaccessible nature relative to 6-D structure being similar to how the Heavenly Realm is transcendent, incomprehensible and inaccessible to inhabitants of 4-D spacetimes further proves that all higher dimensions in the verse trivialize the lower dimensions with a similar extent.

I already explained as for why each higher dimension is infinite here.

As for the rest, I'm not sure why do you keep saying that "incalculable is irrelevant", "a mere "higher dimension" is brought up without further context", "Transcending time and space means quite little for our purposes"...when they are not my main reason for tier 1 in the first place? Shouldn't you try to focus on why higher dimension containing the lower one is not enough instead?

 

[Bobsican]

I already explained as for why each higher dimension is infinite here.

Infinite within the space betwen universes, there's a large difference between something being infinite at all and qualitatively superior in relation to another infinity.

As for the rest, I'm not sure why do you keep saying that "incalculable is irrelevant", "a mere "higher dimension" is brought up without further context", "Transcending time and space means quite little for our purposes"...when they are not my main reason for tier 1 in the first place? Shouldn't you try to focus on why higher dimension containing the lower one is not enough instead?

Usually points are said for the sake of supporting a premise, and so I bothered looking at all of them to see how valid they are and how they complement, and it turns out a good portion of them aren't really usable to begin with to push for the premise, thus reducing the validity of the premise.

 

[Delta333]

Infinite within the space betwen universes, there's a large difference between something being infinite at all and qualitatively superior in relation to another infinity.

Again they being infinite is not the main reason for qualitative superiority.

Usually points are said for the sake of supporting a premise, and so I bothered looking at all of them to see how valid they are and how they complement, and it turns out a good portion of them aren't really usable to begin with to push for the premise, thus reducing the validity of the premise.

Reply to this thread again when you have an answer as for why higher dimension containing the lower one is not enough rather than trying to nitpick the supporting evidences for the sake of avoiding the main one.

 

[Bobsican]

Thing is that we generally need infinities for qualitative superiorities in the first place, the only exception are cases involving reality to fiction stuff, which are still controversial either way, and clearly not what's argued for here.

 

[Rendynoc0unter]

Heaven is a Higher Dimension. Heaven is a place that cannot be reached by the physical body and cannot be recognized by the human brain.

This proves that Heaven is 5-D.

 

[Delta333]

Yea R-F is needed to prove qualitative superiority again, don't know how many times I need to face such arguments in this wiki despite embedding the lower dimension to qualify is not something new at all.

 

[Fixxed]

Yeah i talk with @Rendynoc0unter personally about this and yeah agree

 

[Robo432343]

Heaven is a Higher Dimension. Heaven is a place that cannot be reached by the physical body and cannot be recognized by the human brain.

how tf do people not see the qualitative superiority here

 

[Artorimachi_Meteoraft]

I agree fra

 

[Delta333]

how tf do people not see the qualitative superiority here

I assume you agree with my thread then?

 

[Robo432343]

I assume you agree with my thread then?

ye

 

[PDB123456789]

Argee with 7D.

 

[Bobsican]

Heaven is a Higher Dimension. Heaven is a place that cannot be reached by the physical body and cannot be recognized by the human brain.

This proves that Heaven is 5-D.

Ahem...

Uh... qualitatively superior spaces can't fit within what'd be a lower-d space to begin with, so that shuts the premise of it being qualitatively superior in the first place on the foot. I already debunked the other points.

Yea R-F is needed to prove qualitative superiority again, don't know how many times I need to face such arguments in this wiki despite embedding the lower dimension to qualify is not something new at all.

I can tell this is your premise, but ID just has better overall explanations leaning that way, while in here after the debunks I've made that are being basically being conceded at this point you're only left with "higher dimension" and "physically inaccessible" statements without further context. We don't even know how the ones so-claimed to be higher-d perceive the "lower setting" as no such sort of concrete comparison is ever made going by the OP, which isn't helped by this fundamentally not being tier 1 as all of the claimed stuff is explicitly even claimed by the OP and scans to be in the center of the 4-D multiverse, and a qualitatively superior structure can't fit in a lower-d space, again.

This is like saying that you can fit a 1-A structure inside a Low 2-C structure, which would just make the 1-A structure ironically qualitatively inferior as far our reality equalization standards go regarding the baseline reality, so I still more than strongly disagree.

 

[Delta333]

I can tell this is your premise, but ID just has better overall explanations leaning that way, while in here after the debunks I've made that are being basically being conceded at this point you're only left with "higher dimension" and "physically inaccessible" statements without further context. We don't even know how the ones so-claimed to be higher-d perceive the "lower setting" as no such sort of concrete comparison is ever made going by the OP, which isn't helped by this fundamentally not being tier 1 as all of the claimed stuff is explicitly even claimed by the OP and scans to be in the center of the 4-D multiverse, and a qualitatively superior structure can't fit in a lower-d space, again.

This is like saying that you can fit a 1-A structure inside a Low 2-C structure, which would just make the 1-A structure ironically qualitatively inferior as far our reality equalization standards go regarding the baseline reality, so I still more than strongly disagree.

If you can explain for me why ID has better explanation then go ahead and tell me what's the difference here? Although trust me you will not know anything about ID context better than me at all. Again can you stop acting like "higher dimension" and "physically inaccessible" being metioned is the main reasons to begin with? As I already said, are you capable of just focusing on why higher dimension containing the lower one is not enough instead?

This is like saying that you can fit a 1-A structure inside a Low 2-C structure, which would just make the 1-A structure ironically qualitatively inferior as far our reality equalization standards go regarding the baseline reality, so I still more than strongly disagree.

First of all, Ultima once said that it's normal for a higher dimension to exist within the lower dimension and afaik Nasuverse has 6-D earth just fine.
Second of all I'm not even sure if we read the same Trinity Seven or not because this scan outright shows that Akashic Record is not contained within any lower dimensions around it at all.

 

[Rendynoc0unter]

@Bobsican
no, it already shows the superiority of the aspects that exist in the Realm to the Realm below dimensionally, because basically an entity that exists on the lower plane will not be able to understand what the Higher plane is consensually because their thinking is limited to aspects of their reality that are different from the reality above. In addition, R>F is not a form of affirmation in determining the only higher dimension, there are many ways to apply of the Higher dimension, and that is one of them.

 

[Shereen]

Agree.

In addition, R>F is not a form of affirmation in determining the only higher dimension, there are many ways to apply of the Higher dimension, and that is one of them.

Agree with your argument, basically, indicating the existence of a qualitative superior does not confirm the existence of R>F in that case, the applications in finding the higher dimension are numerous, and the threads made by @Delta333 have shown the existence of a qualitative superior, the determination given already indicates a superiority in the ontological form Concpet, which shows that there is a narrative series that includes the perceptions of the lower plane who cannot understand what the higher plane is because of the different aspects in each reality. They depend on the quality of their own dimension.

there are many ways to apply the existence of a higher dimension, such as

— Brane cosmology which does not show qualitative superiority

— An infinite set that only performs an infinite number of elements can increase the dimension axis by 1D because it is proportional to the real line.

— Max Tegmark's theory which assumes that the universe is a mathematical computation that qualitatively gets l1A - 1A (Basic)

 

[Rabbit2002]

agree