Transmutation vs Regen/ Killing an Character

[Tincan123]

So lately i have read a lot of heated arguments about Transmutation vs Rege or killing an character. So i ask you guys on Vsbattle wiki does Transmutation negate/stop Regen or kill an character.

Examples:

https://vsbattles.com/vsbattles/1961261

https://vsbattles.com/vsbattles/1961781

They are probably more examples but these two are the best i could find.

Edit: course when its clearly shown ( for example Devilman) its an different story but i am talking about would Transmutation work on Regen up to Mid-godly level or even High-Godly if we have to go that far.

 

[DMB_1]

I don't know, really.

Although, since you previously asked the same thing with Fusionism, this one tends to actually overcome regen since the two things that are fusing don't really die when they combine, and then again, characters who use Fusionism offensively in battle are kind of rare in fiction.

 

[Dust_Collector]

I don't think regen would work if you've been transmitted since technically you're not being damaged or killed when it happens, or course there are acceptions (Some forms of transmutation do damage and/or kill people) but generally regen shouldn't be able to counter transmutation imo.

 

[Saikou_The_Lewd_King]

If you're not longer you, you're dead. Transmutation either works by re-arranging your molecules to form another thing entirely or just replacing you with something else. In both cases you aren't alive anymore.

 

[Blahblah9755]

If we interpret transmutation as rearranging the molecules/atoms of an object, then you would need high regen at least to recover from it, and even that's kinda sketchy.

 

[Saikou_The_Lewd_King]

High regen would save you from it, but mostly importantly, Godly regen like would as well.

It's the part that annoys me the most, when people claim any transmutation can counter Godly regen.

 

[Dust_Collector]

Oh I thought this was just about regular regen vs transmutation. I didn't notice the part about godly regen at the bottom of the OP.

 

[Antoniofer]

Those that control they own molecular/atomic structure should be "immune", is not that they can't be affected, but they can revert the effect or even moving freely while transmutated, independently of the type of regen.

As for the godly stuff, they do not necessary save you from transmutation, but they wouldn't kill the you

 

[Tincan123]

@Saikou The Lewd King Again forgive me for forgetting to send you an link and also for bothering other people with it.

 

[Dust_Collector]

If you're not longer you, you're dead. Transmutation either works by re-arranging your molecules to form another thing entirely or just replacing you with something else. In both cases you aren't alive anymore.

So does that mean that Midna is actually dead for most of Twilight Princess?

 

[Saikou_The_Lewd_King]

If a specific transmutation specifically rebuilds a character to keep them alive, that's its problem. But unless proven that characters are forced to stay alive, the default assumption should be that they're dead.

 

[Kaltias]

It depends from the transmutation.

If someone turns you into a brick sure, you are dead, and regen would kick in.

But if you are turned into a cat, that's not being dead. It's becoming a cat. Fiction doesn't necessarily treat that as something that would be countered by regen.

If that particular work of fiction does, sure, but it shouldn't be the default assumption

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

Could someone show me one fiction at all where transmutation is solved solely through Regenerationn?

 

[KuuIchigo]

How about if someone actually has feats of regenerating from transmutation then they can regenerate from transmutation.

 

[Saikou_The_Lewd_King]

@Cal Don't tell me that's your main argument because that's not gonna work.

 

[Theglassman12]

@Kuu that sounds more like resistance if they can just turn back to normal without any issues.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

It works if you don't have any instances to prove otherwise. You can't claim something to be true when nothing at all acknowledges the case.

 

[Saikou_The_Lewd_King]

I could also ask you to find consistent proofs of characters being explicitly stated to not be able to regenerate because they've been transmutated instead of killed. That would be more relevant, I think.

 

[Antoniofer]

@Cal, as I mentioned above, anyone that can control and alter its molecular/atomic structure is able to revert the effects of transmutation. Some examples could include Martian Manhunter (Post-Crisis) and Eve Neuschwanstei.

 

[Dust_Collector]

It depends from the transmutation.
If someone turns you into a brick sure, you are dead, and regen would kick in.

But if you are turned into a cat, that's not being dead. It's becoming a cat. Fiction doesn't necessarily treat that as something that would be countered by regen.

If that particular work of fiction does, sure, but it shouldn't be the default assumption

But what if you're Bowser and you can turn people into bricks while keeping them alive ovo. King Koopas transmutation is too potent.

 

[Wokistan]

@Cal

I feel like I remember something like that happening in MTG.

 

[YungManzi]

I don't think regen would help much against most transmutation.

 

[Agnaa]

Regen lets you recover from damage, not transformation.

Regenerationn doesn't let you recover from mind wipe even though you could phrase it as killing your brain. Why is this different from, say, transmuting someone's mind into stone?

EDIT: I'd consider it different from killing because the body is still there, but in a different form, and it could be transmuted back, like how sealing also leaves the body in some form but sealed, and contrasting with EE that has the body gone completely.

 

[Lightbuster30]

What if you can stay conscious under your own power during the transmutation? That is, you are able to keep yourself conscious despite having your brain effectively destroyed?

 

[Antoniofer]

What if you can stay conscious under your own power during the transmutation? That is, you are able to keep yourself conscious despite having your brain effectively destroyed?

Sound like that time of transmutation that do not kill, that or the affected have godly regen, so no matter what happens to its body it will not die (although, it can do nothing while being, let's say, transformed into stone).

 

[Wokistan]

The issue is, transmuting parts of the body to something inainmate is definitely damage. Calcification and similar processes are definitely harmful. As for the entire body at once, you wouldn't exactly be alive at that point. As you can revive with those even when the body is totally obliterated, I don't see why you wouldn't be able to revive from petrification or something with godly Regen.

 

[Lightbuster30]

No, I'm talking if a character can keep themselves conscious in spite of being transmuted, not because thats how that specific transmutation happens to work.

 

[Wokistan]

Considering how much of fiction has the mind as more of an abstract concept than a purely biological means, probably not.

 

[Lightbuster30]

But theoretically, could someone like that survive without a body? Since their body is technically dead.

 

[Agnaa]

The issue is, transmuting parts of the body to something inainmate is definitely damage. Calcification and similar processes are definitely harmful. As for the entire body at once, you wouldn't exactly be alive at that point. As you can revive with those even when the body is totally obliterated, I don't see why you wouldn't be able to revive from petrification or something with godly Regen.

Well if we're saying that characters can recover from "damage", does that mean that godly regen makes you immune to diseases and mind manip too?

Shouldn't they be able to recover from energy manip too, since it's "definitely harmful" to their bodies?

 

[Antoniofer]

Yeah, mind =/= brain, mind isn't affected by any type of matter manipulation or anything that exclusively affects matter.

 

[Wokistan]

Diseases should be covered under even non godly regens just fine, considering the body suffers notable damage. Mental hax isn't necessary damage and is generally more abstract, but if it's healing a broken mind or something I have legit seen examples of this attributed to a healing ability. Idk if it'd be standard though.


Energy manip is usually AP so sure.

 

[Agnaa]

Ahh true, but still, would godly regen users be immune to anything that affects the physical brain, such as mind manip that uses electricity, threads, or anything like that?

 

[Lightbuster30]

But theoretically, could someone like that survive without a body? Since their body is technically dead.

 

[Wokistan]

If it's like physical brain damage yeah, though idk if the misdirection of electric signals is damage and characters often have to think to do their thing. Threads is referring to KKK I believe and I have no idea how they work.

 

[Antoniofer]

No, godly regen will only make you immortal not invulnerable, one can still be affected by physical and mental attacks.

 

[Wokistan]

Although, maybe not. Off the top of my head Vex cells from destiny can infect and corrupt Guardians, and thus far no amount of light has saved them from that. They can physically (and other ways) enter the mind, which is usually where the Guardian'll succumb or kill themselves and their ghost. Idk if it's the vex being ridiculous or a point against the idea of godly regen healing that type of stuff though.

 

[YungManzi]

Umm...under petrification...your body doesn't immediately break apart...so there's nothing to "fix" or regenerate. I see the godly regens as the same, unless the regen has beeen shown to reverse effects like that, we shouldn't assume it can do that.

 

[Agnaa]

Yes but they'd just recover from it instantly, right?

Like how you're saying that they'd just regenerate from any sealing. It's basically invulnerability if you're "affected" by it, but just shrug it off immediately after as if it never happened.

@Wokistan Electric signals could be very easily construed as damage, it's modifying the body in a way the character doesn't want.

 

[Wokistan]

I mean more as in the sense as if your organ somehow got petrified without anything else, that's very similar to calcification which is a process some irl diseases incur and something quite damaging to a body. As for godly regens, it's more that if they can reform the body from nothingness nothing should really stop them from reforming a body if their other one was made useless.