Transduality Type 3 For Arceus(Original Spirit)

[Sniper670]

Don't take my words personally or offensive. I never meant to, I have nothing against you neither the verse you support.

No problem

 

[sen_]

Keep ignoring this
...

i'm not ignoring it, i already said it being a primordial chaos does not mean chinese cosmology applies unless it has been referenced by the series. In the oblivion thread they specifically said it could mean anything, but they had proof of it being the real Wuji

 

[Luckyfun]

If it has same name and same function then. I agree for this reason.

 

[Sniper670]

i'm not ignoring it, i already said it being a primordial chaos does not mean chinese cosmology applies unless it has been referenced by the series. In the oblivion thread they specifically said it could mean anything, but they had proof of it being the real Wuji

Again. It's the SAME thing and has THE SAME function.

With your logic I can also say the fact that it's called wuji in Marvel doesn't mean it's the same.

Once again. Primordial Chaos is Wuji. Of course we don't assume that unless it's explained as such. In fact in Pokémon it's elaborated on even more than the single one off statement in Marvel

In Chinese cosmology there was originally hun-tun, an undifferentiated luminous cloud, a void with no boundary, emptiness, a potential state. The hun-tun is sometimes considered a state of chaos in that is undivided, whole, a state where everything is mixed together. This potential, undifferentiated primordial state is also called Wu Ji. Wu Ji means literally “no limit” or “no polarity.” It is the “One,”

 

[sen_]

With your logic I can also say the fact that it's called wuji in Marvel doesn't mean it's the same.

in fact it's not only called Wuji, they also have proof that it is the real one and not just something with the same name

Once again. Primordial Chaos is Wuji. Of course we don't assume that unless it's explained as such. In fact in Pokémon it's elaborated on even more than the single one off statement in Marvel

it's explained in a similar way, the TD rating of Wuji isn't only related to the description you mentioned

In fact. Go and look at Scarlet King's Transduality Type 3 rating. Nvm I'll save you the trouble

all i see in that one is TD 2 with the justification "Created and precedes the very concept of division" with the reference you posted, and TD 2 up to TD 3 in some of the others because of being far beyond the Noosphere

 

[Sniper670]

in fact it's not only called Wuji, they also have proof that it is the real one and not just something with the same name

The exact same case for Pokémon. Now explain to my why it's different

it's explained in a similar way, the TD rating of Wuji isn't only related to the description you mentioned

Primordial CHAOS exists in a state of indivisible wholeness.

That was under type 3 in the old system.

Now Arceus precedes this and it exists inside his consciousness

all i see in that one is TD 2 with the justification "Created and precedes the very concept of division" with the reference you posted, and TD 2 up to TD 3 in some of the others because of being far beyond the Noosphere

He qualifies for Type 3, BECAUSE of preceeding the Primordial state of the multiverse

 

[Sniper670]

Lol, he says they have proof.

What proof. That's one statement is more proof than the one in Pokémon, which explained that the world was in an undifferentiated state, where everything was one?

Here wuji is called primordial Chaos.

Here, Wuji is called the Primordial Chaos

Here, Wuji is called the Chaos

It's also explained the exact same in Pokémon

So yes, Primordial Chaos is wuji and it's described as such in Pokémon

 

[sen_]

The exact same case for Pokémon. Now explain to my why it's different

because in marvel they specifically mentioned the real Wuji and expanded by saying that yin and yang arose from that Void, not just similar explanations like in this case

He qualifies for Type 3, BECAUSE of preceeding the Primordial state of the multiverse

he's listed as Type 2

 

[Sniper670]

because in marvel they specifically mentioned the real Wuji and expanded by saying that yin and yang arose from that Void, not just similar explanations like in this case

Show me the difference. I'll wait.

In Chinese cosmology there was originally hun-tun, an undifferentiated luminous cloud, a void with no boundary, emptiness, a potential state. The hun-tun is sometimes considered a state of chaos in that is undivided, whole, a state where everything is mixed together. This potential, undifferentiated primordial state is also called Wu Ji. Wu Ji means literally “no limit” or “no polarity.” It is the “One,”

he's listed as Type 2

He's not been updated to the new standards yet.

 

[sen_]

Show me the difference. I'll wait.

i already repeated myself 100 times, it being a similar explanation doesn't mean chinese cosmology applies in-verse

He's not been updated to the new standards yet.

i don't see how the new standards would change his rating, TD 2 and 3 are now merged as type 2 and type 4 is type 3, he's High 1-A (which is already beyond the old 1-A requirement) so i don't see how the new standards would change anything

 

[Sniper670]

i already repeated myself 100 times, it being a similar explanation doesn't mean chinese cosmology applies in-verse

But.... It does. Primordial Chaos is the Undifferentiated state of the Universe, wuji. You're ignoring evidence

You rn

"Just because it's explained the exact same doesn't mean it's the same".

Really Buddy?

 

[Sniper670]

Then I guess everything that isn't called "Concept" isn't a concept even if the description is the exact same

 

[sen_]

Then I guess everything that isn't called "Concept" isn't a concept even if the description is the exact same

if a certain character says: "I am beyond Mathematics!" without further explanation do you assume "Beyond Mathematics" includes literally all mathematics without there being any mention of Transfinite cardinals or any sort of mention whatsoever? In the same way without there being mention of Wuji you cannot assume because something is a Primordial Chaos it is Wuji

 

[Sniper670]

if a certain character says: "I am beyond Mathematics!" without further explanation do you assume "Beyond Mathematics" includes literally all mathematics without there being any mention of Transfinite cardinals or any sort of mention whatsoever? In the same way without there being mention of Wuji you cannot assume because something is a Primordial Chaos it is Wuji

We're not running on assumptions here.

In Chinese cosmology there was originally hun-tun, an undifferentiated luminous cloud, a void with no boundary, emptiness, a potential state. The hun-tun is sometimes considered a state of chaos in that is undivided, whole, a state where everything is mixed together. This potential, undifferentiated primordial state is also called Wu Ji. Wu Ji means literally “no limit” or “no polarity.” It is the “One,”

Here wuji is called primordial Chaos.

Here, Wuji is called the Primordial Chaos

Here, Wuji is called the Chaos

 

[Sniper670]

Again WUJI is called the Primordial Chaos and is explained as such in the context of Pokémon.

No one is running on assumptions here

 

[theultimate5105]

Palkia and Dialaga are apart of a trio with Giratina. They are his counterparts. Why would their spaces be nothing special but his be apart of a duality?

Also the Ultra Space is very much special. It is distinctly separate from the multiverse and has its own worlds. They are described as interdimensional, and you can even find avatars of the creation trio roaming in them.



Can you post that evidence please?


The fifth truth cannot be a combination of the truth and false.



Post the scan that supports this.

Because overall in terms of this, they really aren't. They are not the opposite of the main multiverse so they aren't really related here
Avatars not the True forms, and the those multiverses exist inside of the greater Pokemon Multiverse.

Stated by Cyrus in Pokemon Origins
Yes and since Arceus is none of those he would be a fifth

 

[Iamunanimousinthat]

Pokémon Platinum

Where can I find the quote?

 

[Iamunanimousinthat]

Because overall in terms of this, they really aren't. They are not the opposite of the main multiverse so they aren't really related here

They both are integral to multiverse, and play equal roles to giratina.

Y’all can’t just say that Giratina stands opposite to the entire multiverse, when the source material says he’s in balance with palkia and dialga. If Dialga or Palkia, disappeared, the universe would fall apart.

And the Ultra Space doesn’t have a counterpart in the distortion world. So it exists outside the supposed duality.

 

[Sniper670]

Japanese
そーですねー、自分は、世界の始まりとは、心が芽生えた瞬間だと考えているんです。
そう！　心の中では空間と時間はまじりあい、ポケモンも人も同じ存在だった・・・
つまり、同じ心を持ち、 同じ考えをして分かり合っていたはずなんですよー人とポケモンは！
そう！　同じ考えを持つから、人とポケモンが入れ替わったり、 ポケモンと結婚したんですよー。
そうなると世界を　作ったというポケモンは、心の表れとも考えられるかなー！？ 　 ふむふむ・・・ 心が芽生えて、世界ができた・・・　、心が育って時間、空間が生まれた・・
時間のポケモン　ディアルガ、空間のポケモン　パルキアは、
アルセウスというポケモンが、最初に生み出したという・・・
どーです　面白いでしょう、もっと　聞いてくれますよねー？
（聞きますかと言われるから、はいと答える） 　 そういえば、プレートにもありましたねー。
そのもの時間　、空間をつなぐ三匹のポケモンを生み出すと 　 なるほどー。ユクシ、　エムリット、アグノムの話しと、読みとれますねー。
心が　豊かになるほど、世界が広がっていく神話！
アルセウスという絶対的な存在から始まる物語！」
修正 ＳＨＯＯＺＮさんから　ミオタウン→ミオシティ
クターマンさんから　アルセンス→アルセウス
追加情報
裏人間さんから　ハードマウンテンとディアルガ・パルキアのイベント後だということ

Translation

That's right, I think that the world started at the same instant the spirit started budding.

Yes! Inside the spirit space and time were blended together, and Pokémon and people were the same thing...

In short, since they had the same spirit, they had the same thoughts and they probably understood each other

Yes! Since their thoughts were the same, Pokémon and people exchanged places, and there was marriage with Pokémon

I guess you could think that this kind of world was a representation of the spirit of the Pokémon who created it!? Uh-huh... When the spirit sprouted, the world was created... When the spirit grew up, space, time were born...

The Pokémon of time, Dialga, the Pokémon of space, Palkia,

They were the first born of the Pokémon Arceus...

How is it, is it interesting? Do you want to hear more-?

(When asked if they want to hear more, they say yes) Come to think of it, there were also tectonic plates-

Three Pokémon that connect space and time themselves were born. Indeed. You can guess I'm talking about Uxie, Mesprit and Azelf.

In this myth, the more the spirit grew richer and fuller, the more the world spread open!

The story that started from the absolute entity Arceus!

And the rest is about a couple guys that fixed some typos.

In this case I translated 心 as "spirit", but it can also be translated as mind or heart or even self. In this context there's no English word that captures the entirety of 心 because I think he's using all nuances of the word at once.

 

[Sniper670]

They both are integral to multiverse, and play equal roles to giratina.

Y’all can’t just say that Giratina stands opposite to the entire multiverse, when the source material says he’s in balance with palkia and dialga. If Dialga or Palkia, disappeared, the universe would fall apart.

And the Ultra Space doesn’t have a counterpart in the distortion world. So it exists outside the supposed duality.

What does what you're talking about have anything to do with the crt?

@theultimate5105 and @Iamunanimousinthat you can take your discussion elsewhere.

 

[Iamunanimousinthat]

What does what you're talking about have anything to do with the crt?

@theultimate5105 and @Iamunanimousinthat you can take your discussion elsewhere.

It has everything to do with it, since you’re trying to claim transduality based off the cosmology and your cosmology model is wrong.

 

[Sniper670]

It has everything to do with it, since you’re trying to claim transduality based off the cosmology and your cosmology model is wrong.

Why is the Cosmology model wrong.

Explain

 

[Iamunanimousinthat]

Why is the Cosmology model wrong.

Explain

You didn’t include Palkia’s and Dialga’s realm and the ultra space, which have never been shown to have a counterpart in the distortion/reverse world.

 

[Sniper670]

You didn’t include Palkia’s and Dialga’s realm and the ultra space, which have never been shown to have a counterpart in the distortion/reverse world.

The Distortion world represents the opposite of Substance and Spirit

It's Nonexistence

 

[Iamunanimousinthat]

The Distortion world represents the opposite of Substance and Spirit

It's Nonexistence

It is a reflection of the main universe.

palkias’s and dialga’s realm are not reflected in it, and neither is the ultra space.

it is not in duality with everything in existence

 

[Sniper670]

It is a reflection of the main universe.

palkias’s and dialga’s realm are not reflected in it, and neither is the ultra space.

it is not in duality with everything in existence

Space and Time represents substance, and is embodied by Dialga and Palkia. Spirit is embodied by the LT.

Giratina is the opposite of that. And Masuda talked about his nonexistence.

Why should it display their realms when it's nonexistent in nature. Are you listening to yourself buddy?

 

[Iamunanimousinthat]

Space and Time represents substance, and is embodied by Dialga and Palkia. Spirit is embodied by the LT.

Giratina is the opposite of that. And Masuda talked about his nonexistence.

Why should it display their realms when it's nonexistent in nature. Are you listening to yourself buddy?

The scan you posted clearly says dialga and palkia are counterparts and are in balance with each other. Your model doesn’t represent that.

and again, they still have realms that are not shown part of your model, as well as the ultra space.

 

[Sniper670]

The scan you posted clearly says dialga and palkia are counterparts and are in balance with each other. Your model doesn’t represent that.

Yes. They represent substance, the LT represents spirit

The Distortion world is the opposite and as Masuda said its nonexistent

and again, they still have realms that are not shown part of your model, as well as the ultra space.

These are very easy to explain.
Palkia exists in the space between dimensions Dialga's realm is between time.

Now look

Dialga and Palkia represents substance, the LT represents Spirit. Isn't that what is written there. It's not 1:1 accurate but I don't see the relevance in you demanding that I show their realms in there. What does that have to do with the CRT?


And I want you to prove to me that Ultra space is outside of space time.

 

[Sniper670]

I don't get you, you're more concerned about the model than the main crt?

Then message me with a better model. This is not the place for that

 

[Iamunanimousinthat]

I don't get you, you're more concerned about the model than the main crt?

Then message me with a better model. This is not the place for that

I'll drop it for now, but there is still the problem of there not being enough truth states.

 

[Sniper670]

You just have to be outside all 4 truth states, making you a 5 truth state.

That is to say, for any statement A about them they are in a state that can't be described as A is true, A is false, A is simultanously true and false or A is neither true nor false. And so they must obey a many-valued logic with at least 5 truth states, and not be in any of the 4 combinations of true and false mentioned earlier.

It's really easy to understand. I don't see the problem y'all having.

 

[Iamunanimousinthat]

You just have to be outside all 4 truth states, making you a 5 truth state.

It's really easy to understand. I don't see the problem y'all having.

The fifth state cannot be a combination of true and false. You have to directly state what the truth state is.

Right now you're saying:

Original Spirit is 1 and 0.
Original Spirit is not 1 and 0.
Original Spirit is 1 and not 0.
Original Sprit is 0 and not 1
Original Spirit isn't 1 and 0 and isn't not 1 and 0, and isn't 1 and not 0, and isn't 0 and not 1. Which just saying the same 4 truths all over again as one statement which doesn't apply.

What we need is:

Original Spirit is 1 and 0.
Original Spirit is not 1 and 0.
Original spirit 1 and not 0.
Original spirit is 0 and not 1.
Original spirit is 2. 2 has nothing to do with 1 and 0.

 

[ImmortalDread]

The fifth state cannot be a combination of true and false. You have to directly state what the truth state is.

Right now you're saying:

Original Spirit is 1 and 0.
Original Spirit is not 1 and 0.
Original Spirit is 1 and not 0.
Original Sprit is 0 and not 1
Original Spirit isn't 1 and 0 and isn't not 1 and 0, and isn't 1 and not 0, and isn't 0 and not 1. Which just saying the same 4 truths all over again as one statement which doesn't apply.

What we need is:

Original Spirit is 1 and 0.
Original Spirit is not 1 and 0.
Original spirit 1 and not 0.
Original spirit is 0 and not 1.
Original spirit is 2. 2 has nothing to do with 1 and 0.

^^

 

[Sniper670]

Again, you need to be absent, so why should the Spirit be 1 and 0 when that shouldn't be the case

None of these should describe you
1
0
Both 1 and 0
Neither 1 nor 0

This is Type 3. And exactly why Oblivion qualified for type 3

 

[Iamunanimousinthat]

Oblivion is a different matter, and maybe it shouldn't have type 3 if that's the case.

That's still only 4 truths. You need five.

 

[Sniper670]

Oblivion is a different matter, and maybe it shouldn't have type 3 if that's the case.

Why is it a different matter. It's the same Wuji primordial void we're dealing with. Difference is Spirit R>F the void while Oblivion is the void itself

That's still only 4 truths. You need five.

The Spirit is the 5th because none of the 4 can describe it.

It's literally what is mentioned under type 3. You only need for none of the 4 to describe you

 

[ImmortalDread]

Why is it a different matter. It's the same Wuji primordial void we're dealing with. Difference is Spirit R>F the void while Oblivion is the void itself

The Spirit is the 5th because none of the 4 can describe it.

It's literally what is mentioned under type 3. You only need for none of the 4 to describe you

No, it is not. Don't use the same statement for the 5th truth state.

 

[ImmortalDread]

Also call Staff, this won't be applied anyways but let's see what staff gonna say

 

[Sniper670]

No, it is not. Don't use the same statement for the 5th truth state.

Yes it is. Now go back and read it

 

[Sniper670]

Also call Staff, this won't be applied anyways but let's see what staff gonna say

Because you say so? Lol