Transduality Type 3 For Arceus(Original Spirit)

[sen_]

Again. It's Undifferentiated NOTHING.

Everything was one thing. It wasn't 1 and 0. It was NOTHING as mentioned in the game. 1 and 0 isn't there because the boundary seperating object from subject doesn't exist

Look, I'm tired of repeating myself. It was Primordial Chaos where the multiverse wasn't differentiated which is Wuji

the chaos being mentioned as Nothing doesn't really mean much, but as i said this is going in circles so i will stop arguing

 

[Iamunanimousinthat]

I disagree. Because it just doesn't make sense to be honest.

If everything is apart of the Original spirit, isn't that just monoism? How is that Plurality?

And the picture of the cosmology doesn't make sense as always.

Cosmology in a nutshell

You're missing several components: the ultra space, Dialga and Palkia's realm.

Also how is Giratina, "non-existence" in duality with existence when in some universes (manga and the game) it's the distortion world, and in other universes (the anime) it's the reverse world?

But argument sakes, lets say you're right and that non-existence and existence are dual systems, 0 and 1 respectively.

1.The origin spirit is 1 and 0. That's one truth.
2.The origin spirit is neither 1 or 0. That's two truths now.
3.The origin spirit is 1 and not 0. That's three truths now.*
4.The origin spirit is 0 and not 1. That's fourth truths now.*

Where is the fifth truth? *And I'm very much iffy about 3 and 4 being considered truths, and rather just 1 and 2 written different.

ALSO, the transduality page says this: "And so they must obey a many-valued logic with at least 5 truth states, and not be in any of the 4 combinations of true and false mentioned earlier."

It's not enough.

 

[sen_]

1.The origin spirit is 1 and 0. That's one truth.
2.The origin spirit is neither 1 or 0. That's two truths now.
3.The origin spirit is 1 and not 0. That's three truths now.*
4.The origin spirit is 0 and not 1. That's fourth truths now.*

Where is the fifth truth? *And I'm very much iffy about 3 and 4 being considered truths, and rather just 1 and 2 written different.

3 and 4 are fine, the problem here is that 2 has basically nothing to back it up. Also If it exists as all of those truths you mentioned simultaneously then it is type 3 because of not being describable as any of those 4 states, but that's only if there's proof for both statements and from my point of view there isn't.

 

[Iamunanimousinthat]

because of not being describable as any of those 4 states,

5th state must be independent of the truth and false value.

 

[sen_]

5th state must be independent of the truth and false value.

not exactly, for example being both A and B and neither A nor B simultaneously qualifies as TD 3 (if you meet the other requirements) because you cannot be described as any of the 4 classical states of contradiction-allowing logic

 

[Sniper670]

the chaos being mentioned as Nothing doesn't really mean much, but as i said this is going in circles so i will stop arguing

Okay then bye

 

[Sniper670]

I disagree. Because it just doesn't make sense to be honest.

If everything is apart of the Original spirit, isn't that just monoism? How is that Plurality?

And the picture of the cosmology doesn't make sense as always.


You're missing several components: the ultra space, Dialga and Palkia's realm.

Also how is Giratina, "non-existence" in duality with existence when in some universes (manga and the game) it's the distortion world, and in other universes (the anime) it's the reverse world?

But argument sakes, lets say you're right and that non-existence and existence are dual systems, 0 and 1 respectively.

1.The origin spirit is 1 and 0. That's one truth.
2.The origin spirit is neither 1 or 0. That's two truths now.
3.The origin spirit is 1 and not 0. That's three truths now.*
4.The origin spirit is 0 and not 1. That's fourth truths now.*

Where is the fifth truth? *And I'm very much iffy about 3 and 4 being considered truths, and rather just 1 and 2 written different.

ALSO, the transduality page says this: "And so they must obey a many-valued logic with at least 5 truth states, and not be in any of the 4 combinations of true and false mentioned earlier."

It's not enough.

It is enough. I'll point this out

And so they must obey a many-valued logic with at least 5 truth states, and not be in any of the 4 combinations of true and false mentioned earlier.

 

[Iamunanimousinthat]

It is enough. I'll point this out

What's the fifth truth?

 

[Sniper670]

3 and 4 are fine, the problem here is that 2 has basically nothing to back it up. Also If it exists as all of those truths you mentioned simultaneously then it is type 3 because of not being describable as any of those 4 states, but that's only if there's proof for both statements and from my point of view there isn't.

Again. The Original Spirit is independent of and beyond the cosmology.

Everything exist in the Spirit, which is literally Mind. That's more than enough for qualitative Superiority.

---

 

[Sniper670]

What's the fifth truth?

Again. Original Spirit as A

It's neither True, Nor False, nor both true and false, nor neither true nor false.


In fact it's literally the Only REAL thing in the Cosmology, as The Spirit is the Primordial Consciousness that contains creation

 

[Iamunanimousinthat]

Again. Original Spirit as A

It's neither True, Nor False, nor both true and false, nor neither true nor false.


In fact it's literally the Only REAL thing in the Cosmology, as The Spirit is the Primordial Consciousness that contains creation

You're dodging the question. What is the fifth truth? Until you state that clearly, there's nothing here.

 

[Iamunanimousinthat]

Also where is your evidence to back up the claim that the only the Spirit is real? Where are the scans that state everything is primordial consciousness?

 

[Sniper670]

You're dodging the question. What is the fifth truth? Until you state that clearly, there's nothing here.

What is the 5th state you're talking about. The Spirit doesn't exist in any of the states mentioned here. I'm not getting you well

That is to say, for any statement A about them they are in a state that can't be described as A is true, A is false, A is simultanously true and false or A is neither true nor false

 

[sen_]

Again. The Original Spirit is independent of and beyond the cosmology.

Everything exist in the Spirit, which is literally Mind. That's more than enough for qualitative Superiority.

this gives proof of transcendence which no one has ever really questioned. What is being questioned are the truth values

 

[Sniper670]

Also where is your evidence to back up the claim that the only the Spirit is real? Where are the scans that state everything is primordial consciousness?

Heart" (心, Kokoro) is what the Original Spirit is referred to as. The English localization decided to translate this as "spirit", and this isn't a bad translation as "心" is often not used to refer literally to a physical heart. In dictionaries it's stated that "Kokoro" refers to "the source of human mental activity", "the action of the very human psyche", "the totality of knowledge, emotions and intention". And the very last definition is exactly what the Lake Trio refers to. As such, it isn't a surprise that it got translated into "Spirit", but "Mind" would work well in the same way


Enough? Don't forget, everything existed and exist inside the Spirit as it's an all encompassing being

 

[Sniper670]

this gives proof of transcendence which no one has ever really questioned. What is being questioned are the truth values

You keep talking about 5th state. What 5th state are you talking about?

 

[Iamunanimousinthat]

What is the 5th state you're talking about. The Spirit doesn't exist in any of the states mentioned here. I'm not getting you well

The Transduality page requires a 5 truth state at the very minimum. You have only shown 4 at the most.

Heart" (心, Kokoro) is what the Original Spirit is referred to as. The English localization decided to translate this as "spirit", and this isn't a bad translation as "心" is often not used to refer literally to a physical heart. In dictionaries it's stated that "Kokoro" refers to "the source of human mental activity", "the action of the very human psyche", "the totality of knowledge, emotions and intention". And the very last definition is exactly what the Lake Trio refers to. As such, it isn't a surprise that it got translated into "Spirit", but "Mind" would work well in the same way


Enough? Don't forget, everything existed and exist inside the Spirit as it's an all encompassing being

??? Okay but what does that have to do with pokemon? Where is it stated that everything is not real and apart of the original sprit's consciousness. I need a scan.

 

[theultimate5105]

You're missing several components: the ultra space, Dialga and Palkia's realm.

Also how is Giratina, "non-existence" in duality with existence when in some universes (manga and the game) it's the distortion world, and in other universes (the anime) it's the reverse world?

But argument sakes, lets say you're right and that non-existence and existence are dual systems, 0 and 1 respectively.

1.The origin spirit is 1 and 0. That's one truth.
2.The origin spirit is neither 1 or 0. That's two truths now.
3.The origin spirit is 1 and not 0. That's three truths now.*
4.The origin spirit is 0 and not 1. That's fourth truths now.*

Where is the fifth truth? *And I'm very much iffy about 3 and 4 being considered truths, and rather just 1 and 2 written different.

ALSO, the transduality page says this: "And so they must obey a many-valued logic with at least 5 truth states, and not be in any of the 4 combinations of true and false mentioned earlier."

It's not enough.

Ultra Space, Dialga and Palkias realms are part of Physical/Metaphysical, so they really aren't special (especially Ultra Space which is just part of the normal multiverse)

The reverse world is the distortion world just with some different properties but is overall the same thing (its also stated to be nothingness as well)

The reason it is 5 is beyond the Original spirit is beyond those 4 truth states (of course you could say their isn't enough proof to say this as a fact)

 

[sen_]

You keep talking about 5th state. What 5th state are you talking about?

i'm talking about a state where you can't be described as any of the 4 classical states of contradiction-allowing logic. What i think is the scans don't effectively demonstrate a 5th state

 

[Sniper670]

The Transduality page requires a 5 truth state at the very minimum. You have only shown 4 at the most.

Give me an example of a 5th state. I'm waiting.

??? Okay but what does that have to do with pokemon? Where is it stated that everything is not real and apart of the original sprit's consciousness. I need a scan.

Spirit is mind, inside the mind was was the Undifferentiated state of the multiverse. The Spirit is an All Encompassing Deity, One Heart across space and time.

Spirit is mind, and in mind is creation

 

[Sniper670]

i'm talking about a state where you can't be described as any of the 4 classical states contradiction-allowing logic. I'm not exactly questioning your definition of TD 3 since i think it's pretty much correct, what i think is the scans don't effectively demonstrate a 5th state

Multiverse - 1 and 0. Duality here
Primordial Chaos- Neither 1, nor 0, effectively Nondual Nep 2

Spirit. Contains both within the mind that it is. Now if both of these state are merely mental constructs within the spirit, and he's removed from it that qualifies for qualitative and hence type 3 . No?

 

[sen_]

Multiverse - 1 and 0. Duality here
Primordial Chaos- Neither 1, nor 0, effectively Nondual Nep 2

Spirit. Contains both within the mind that it is. Now if both of these state are merely mental constructs within the spirit, and he's removed from it that qualifies for qualitative and hence type 3 . No?

the Multiverse itself shouldn't be both A and B, it should be either A or B since it's Duality, thus if A is true B is false and viceversa. Unless the Multiverse itself is non-dual.

 

[Sniper670]

the Multiverse itself shouldn't be both A and B, it should be either A or B since it's Duality, thus if A is true B is false and viceversa. Unless the Multiverse itself is non-dual.

Okay. We don't even need the multiverse's duality. As the multiverse is merely an extension of his avatar.

Inside the Spirit is Primordial Chaos where everything is undifferentiated and is neither 1 nor 0. So effectively NonDual

So The Spirit contains in his mind NonDuality hence, any duality that comes out of it is of no relevance to it.

That is to say, for any statement A about them they are in a state that can't be described as A is true, A is false, A is simultanously true and false or A is neither true nor false.

Original Spirit precedes NonDuality which is in his mind.

Exactly how Oblivion got Transduality Type 3 no?

 

[Iamunanimousinthat]

Ultra Space, Dialga and Palkias realms are part of Physical/Metaphysical, so they really aren't special (especially Ultra Space which is just part of the normal multiverse)

Palkia and Dialaga are apart of a trio with Giratina. They are his counterparts. Why would their spaces be nothing special but his be apart of a duality?

Also the Ultra Space is very much special. It is distinctly separate from the multiverse and has its own worlds. They are described as interdimensional, and you can even find avatars of the creation trio roaming in them.

The reverse world is the distortion world just with some different properties but is overall the same thing (its also stated to be nothingness as well)

Can you post that evidence please?

The reason it is 5 is beyond the Original spirit is beyond those 4 truth states (of course you could say their isn't enough proof to say this as a fact)

The fifth truth cannot be a combination of the truth and false.

Spirit is mind, inside the mind was was the Undifferentiated state of the multiverse. The Spirit is an All Encompassing Deity, One Heart across space and time.

Spirit is mind, and in mind is creation

Post the scan that supports this.

 

[Sniper670]

Palkia and Dialaga are apart of a trio with Giratina. They are his counterparts. Why would their spaces be nothing special but his be apart of a duality?

Everything is a part of a Duality. As Arceus said

Also the Ultra Space is very much special. It is distinctly separate from the multiverse and has its own worlds. They are described as interdimensional, and you can even find avatars of the creation trio roaming in them.

And so what? Stop. Just stop with your headcannon. Provide PROOF that it is outside the multiverse

Can you post that evidence please?

Look. Stop derailing and FOCUS on the crt at hand

The fifth truth cannot be a combination of the truth and false.

And the Spirit is not a combination of the truth and false values. What's your point

Post the scan that supports this.

Here. Arceus is a manifestation of it.

It is an all encompassing being. One Heart across space and time.

Note heart, spirit and mind are all the same

Where do you think his omnipresence comes from

 

[ImmortalDread]

Ngl, you gotta somehow prove that "everything" in that context means all duality when other statement explicitly only mentioned one.

 

[Sniper670]

Oh I missed this. Heart/Spirit/Mind in Pokémon is the combination of Knowledge, Willpower and Emotions.

And yes, all humans and Pokémon use these to dream realities in their sleep. How much more the Original Spirit. Lol

 

[Sniper670]

Ngl, you gotta somehow prove that "everything" in that context means all duality when other statement explicitly only mentioned one.

He made an example to show that everything is governed by a certain duality.

And the other Translations back me up

 

[Iamunanimousinthat]

Everything is a part of a Duality. As Arceus said

Okay, but "Giratina vs Everything else" is the duality is not supported by the text.

And the Spirit is not a combination of the truth and false values. What's your point

So what is the fifth state?

Everything is a part of a Duality. As Arceus said

And so what? Stop. Just stop with your headcannon. Provide PROOF that it is outside the multiverse

Look. Stop derailing and FOCUS on the crt at hand

And the Spirit is not a combination of the truth and false values. What's your point

Here. Arceus is a manifestation of it.

It is an all encompassing being. One Heart across space and time.

Note heart, spirit and mind are all the same

Where do you think his omnipresence comes from

Nothing here states that the world isn't real and is just the thoughts of the great spirit.

 

[Sniper670]

So what is the fifth state

Again. It doesn't exist in any of the 4 truth states. Can you give me an example? I really don't get what you're after

Nothing here states that the world isn't real and is just the thoughts of the great spirit.

The World exists inside The Spirit, which is Mind. Literally Brahman in anything but name

That's R>F. Or you want to prove that reality existing inside your mind doesn't grant R>F? Be my guest

 

[ImmortalDread]

I am really unsure where is 5th truth state from?

 

[Sniper670]

Can you give an example of the 5th truth state he's talking about please

for any statement A about them they are in a state that can't be described as A is true, A is false, A is simultanously true and false or A is neither true nor false

If you don't exist in any of this, that's Type 3. Or am I missing something

 

[ImmortalDread]

Can you give an example of the 5th truth state he's talking about please


If you don't exist in any of this, that's Type 3. Or am I missing something

No mate. For TD type 3, you need to have at least 5 truth state

 

[Sniper670]

No mate. For TD type 3, you need to have at least 5 truth state

Give me an example. That's all I ask. From what I seen, Arceus isn't in any of the truth states listed

Which is similar to Oblivion for being the Nothingness that predates Wuji, undifferentiated primordial chaos

 

[Sniper670]

I won't talk much. Here you go

https://vsbattles.com/threads/oblivion-revision-marvel-comics.141659/

 

[ImmortalDread]

In one of your scans there is only one explict mention of one duality existence.... have luck with this thread but it is hard to be implemented.

Also don't use philosophies as an evidence. If the verse itself goes deep into it and explain those stuff, then it's fine to use them as supporting scan but only mentioning them won't help much

 

[sen_]

I won't talk much. Here you go
...

The xians origins Is unclear, it is said that Yuanshi Tianzun originated from the primordial void, referring to Ginnungagap.
Whether they did or not, that doesn't really matter, what does matter is that It is actually believed by the xians that the primordial void is the “wuji” (Thor & Hercules: Encyclopaedia Mythologica #1; The Xian's entry) Which could mean anything, but, in that exact image it is also believed yin and yang arose from the void, meaning it is supposed to be the real wuji

his case is clearly different since there is explicit and blatant proof.

 

[Sniper670]

his case is clearly different since there is explicit and blatant proof.

It's not. As Arceus mentioned everything is governed by a Duality.

And Arceus was born out of the Undifferentiated primordial Chaos.

Which is exactly the same as wuji

 

[ImmortalDread]

his case is clearly different since there is explicit and blatant proof.

Without no assumption as well ^^

 

[ImmortalDread]

It's not. As Arceus mentioned everything is governed by a Duality.

And Arceus was born out of the Undifferentiated primordial Chaos.

Which is exactly the same as wuji

You clearly said it. By a duality. One duality, that's max type 1 bro.