Trafalgar Law vs Jinbe

[M1keyOnDiscord]

Law doesn't even have any of his stats from Wano on his profile, so what would be the point of including Wano version in the first place.

Some people prior have mentioned feats from wano, but the point of including those would be to show law can go against someone like kaido and damage them.

But that means poor jinbe here would lose so no wano allowed, but imo Law would still win even if you base off-of it dressona, but the other people wouldnt agree with that because the fanboy in them wants their favorite merman to win.

 

[MonkeyOfLife]

but the other people wouldnt agree with that because the fanboy in them wants their favorite merman to win.

Stop. I literally like law more than jinbe... This has nothing to do with bias... This match would easily go to jinbe. Deal with it. You have no proof or anything that you say make law win especially when they are fighting on an underwater island.

 

[MonkeyOfLife]

if it gets unfairly given to jinbe idrc anymore. Monkey just keeps saying the same thing and at this point I feel like he's just trolling

You literally haven't said why law wins... You say unfairly given yet the profiles literally says Jinbe haki >>> law haki plus dura neg that won't be resisted by law. You are clearly biased and don't want jinbe to win... You also know barley any info about one piece.

 

[joshpiece]

knocked out the likes of luffy

that wasn’t the real luffy have you even watched/read the manga?

Shit did you even watch the full clip luffy is literally standing right next to Jinbe

 

[KingTempest]

the fanboy in them wants their favorite merman to win.

Comments like this are against the rules. This is a warning. Just debate and be quiet.

All I've seen before and after I've joined are Law's Wano feats and actions.

Some people prior have mentioned feats from wano, but the point of including those would be so law can go against someone like kaido and damage them.

You've consistently not payed attention to anything I've said during the thread, and anything Monkey has said.

We work off of the profiles, which have them at relative AP. Saying his feats of hurting Kaido is for a Wano key, which is
A. Not created yet
B. Hundreds of chapters after dressrosa.

You've consistently used feats in a different key, which doesn't work. It's like me using Luffy's post timeskip feats for his pre timeskip feats. Or me using Enies Lobby scaling for a Luffy who fought Arlong.

Jinbe has haki, so he negates everything that Law starts off with, which includes Shambles, Amputate, Counter Shock.
Jinbe has more consistent dura neg that is not dependent on the opponent's level of buso.
Law's Gamma Knife is a last case scenario. Him using it early against Kaido was because Kaido is a tank, plus it's a later version.

Jinbe has
Superior Haki, superior martial arts, a fighting style not dependent on the opponents' haki level, a 2x amp when he touches the water which will give him superior AP, an arena advantage, etc.

Law has
Hax that barely work, a sword, intelligence.

Jinbe wins. That's my vote.

 

[M1keyOnDiscord]

Stop. I literally like law more than jinbe... This has nothing to do with bias... This match would easily go to jinbe. Deal with it. You have no proof or anything that you say make law win especially when they are fighting on an underwater island.

Ive Debunked the proof you send but you just go on and on about how jinbe is somehow stronger than doffy due to being able to knock big mom back (ignoring her high surface area to spread the force, making it easier to make it move in motion, thats how surface area works.), and surviving a Punch from Aikamu (which, to quote from One Piece's own wiki on law's medical abilities, " He was able to simultaneously operate on both Luffy and Jinbe right after both of them barely escaped a murderous Akainu who inflicted brutal life threatening injuries that left them on the brink of death and was successful in treating them." Now you cant even argue that "jinbe was 100% fine to fight after that attack!!1!").

It seems pretty obvious that Law has the upper advantage here, another quote from One piece's wiki on haki,

"Haki's capability to counter Devil Fruit Users extends past Logia types and lets them defend against certain Paramecia effects. However, this is dependant on the strength of the Haki, as Law bypassed Vergo's Haki and bifurcated him easily by using his Devil Fruit technique, although it is unknown if Law used his own Haki to overcome Vergo's Haki."

Law has also been seen being able to straight-up block Doflamingo's Goshikito without any damage as seen here, along with being able to use Mes on Smoker.

This isnt even mentioning Law's Sword aswell, being able to ALSO deflect Doffy's string attack to some degree (as well, it isnt broken currently.)

Gonna say this clearly; I am not trying to say law would have an easy win against Jinbe. Law's simple wins, like spatial slicing, most definitely wouldnt work on Jinbe. They didnt work on Doffy majority of their battle, or when Doffy catches his sword, and it would be dishonest to say Jinbe's haki is equal to Smoker or Vergo, I would place it equal to doffy at the low end, and somewhere below Katakuri (more on that later.)
1. Jinbe's haki can only apply on his two arms. He cant be like vergo and apply it through his whole body, or be like Doffy (using his devil fruit) and have his string-like attacks be able to help against Law's attacks, or repair vital organs hurt from Gamma Knife.
2. Even if Jinbe could do it on his entire body, he has no internal-protection from something like mes, countershock, injection shot, or gamma knife. They are all closed ranged, I get that, but if you're telling me Jinbe, who is a marital-artist, is gonna pretend to be a spellcaster from D&D and keep long-distance between him and Law, then that just seems pretty stupid.
3. Law has some knowledge on Jinbe's internal structure, as seen by the fact he saved Jinbe's life, meaning Mes or Injection shot is 100% on the table.

And we cant say Jinbe's Haki is through the roof. He didnt manage to hit katakuri (even with the help of 2 other people), and this own wiki has said Katakuri's superior than Doffy. So with that VS battle we can reasonably say Jinbe's haki is somewhere between Doffy's and Katakuri, as if Jinbe was stronger than Katakuri (in haki) he would've bypassed his Paramecia-logia like mochi. And before you try saying "it's logia, it isnt affected by Busoshoku Haki", from The Wiki page about Logia DF,
"The most common way to bypass Logia protections is by using Busoshoku Haki. Haki does not prevent Logia users from transforming or completely deactivate the transformation; rather, once a Haki-imbued object makes contact with a transformed body, the body part that is struck reverts to its solid form. Thus, a Logia user that is hit with a Haki-imbued attack in their transformed state will be harmed as if they had not transformed." This implies if Jinbe wished to he would've grabbed the Mochi Katakuri or punched it and actually hurt him, which is not what was seen in WCI trying to stop Katakuri reaching Luffy.

Now that is out of the way (so ya'll can stop comparing jinbe to big mom), Im gonna go on about some of the statements mentioned and try to put my input on them.

Jinbe tanked akainu dura neg... He will easily do it with law.

Now I know ya'll like mentioning this, but I dont see how this would help Jinbe. Not all fishman karate techniques can send shockwaves like he does with vagabond drill specifically, for example earlier in the Big Mom fight (from what I can tell) Shoulder Throw doesnt, and does nothing to big mom besides making her wet and annoyed, like a water gun. I might be misunderstood with this feat, as I am not very well aware of to what extent each karate move does, but please elaborate on this for my sake that way I can realize why this is such a strong argument everyone says.

Jinbe has haki, so he negates everything that Law starts off with, which includes Shambles, Amputate, Counter Shock.

Buddy, buddy, hey listen, thats not how that works. Just cause you can be resistant to it doesnt mean you can completely be immune to it, atleast not Counter Shock. An example of that would literally be doffy, who couldnt be shambled or amputated (I believe), but still was able to get counter shock'd. (One handed I should say, which does affect law's abilites to some point like Doffy stopping Law from using Mes by grabbing his hand, but thats off-topic to this portion.)

Jinbe has more consistent dura neg that is not

Unsure of what the not portion refers to. We saw law straight-up ignore One-of Doffy's attacks using his haki. And if you're talking about Gamma Knife and the sort, Idk what you're on about, this is specifically towards King as he didnt finish this sentence as-of the VS thread Im quoting it from.

Superior Haki, superior martial arts, a fighting style not dependent on the opponents' haki level, a 2x amp when he touches the water which will give him superior AP, an arena advantage, etc.

Please give me the "etc.", as I dont wanna be biased here, but ignoring that;

superior martial arts

(though law isnt one afaik), and I will give jinbe advantage in close ranged, he most-likely is better H2H-person than doffy, and I would say better reaction time, and thus could most-likely catch Law's blade in some scenarios. So I can actually agree to this, but it doesnt give him the win instantly.

Superior Haki

Not big-mom level, and even then (with wano -> Law can hurt big mom), I wouldnt say this gives him the instant win. He does have better haki than law, but we've seen law hurt people who have superior haki, such-as Doffy.

a fighting style not dependent on the opponents' haki level

... thats like me saying "All for one is weak because it relies on the quirk of other users to be strong", or in One Piece's argument, "Big mom is weak because her DF requires homies to boost her power" thats just not a good argument. and if we take Vergo, which we are unaware of if Law used haki against, to some degree Law doesnt depend on opponent's haki level to fight, or atleast that could be argued for.

a 2x amp when he touches the water which will give him superior AP

It's submerged in water, not just existing near water. More on this later so that way I can have the water-thoughts all in one area.

If we take Wano Jinbe into account,

Spoiler

we've seen him go toe-to-toe against Who-Who's and win, who was Below Kaido and the all-stars in command. This is a pretty strong feat. However, if we use Wano Jinbe, we gotta use Wano Law, which I would argue would tip the favors towards law extremely more than already present.

And now Im gonna take some looks at some-of the anti-law arguments.

Law has
Hax that barely work, a sword, intelligence.

"Barely works" really? really? no, Just no. That is such bull, he doesnt purely rely on shambling or amputating opponents and I don't see why he cant shamble himself like he usually does..? The only time he wins with amputating or shambling opponents is when it would be an easy win even without those, like against the marines I mentioned prior, even without amputate, he can just send the bullets back using shambles, which are not apart of the Marines themselves for example (unlike the cannonball-head trick he does in the same fight.)

Yee and law could never... Doffy could never... Even gear 4th didn't if I remember correctly

This is technically incorrect if we use Wano, but ya'll get mad if I say that so whatever. I cant even find any non-Wano fights to reasonably compare Law VS Big mom or Kaido unless you want to consider the One Piece fighting games which... yeah no scaling to the likes of those is jank cause anyone can lose to/win against anyone.

Im just gonna go on general points made now, gonna try to not repeat myself in this post;

also this one hit was from the back (no way to block) link....

Guess that panel where he turned around and tried to punch him is irrelevant. I wonder why he showed his back after that punch didnt work, almost like that would've been the best defensive approach... hmm...

He doesn't need to... Law's stamina will deplete if he uses it to much.

This makes it seem like law doesnt have an unhealthy amount of stamina. Also implies he would have to use it constantly against Jinbe which just doesnt seem fair to law.

Jinbe would walk up to him and hit him in his stomach or shoot a shockwave at him

Unless Jinbe has sword-length "punches" (And no Im not talking about Jinbe punching the air to do shockwaves, different from the 1st approach), cant reasonably use vegabond drill in that scenario as law would most likely shambles to behind (as law is a strategist, would probs find a rock or something to use shambles with.)

These link are to show... That jinbe was able to be conscious and on his feet after that attack...

Even if he was on his feet and conscious, that doesnt really mean much. Whitebeard literally died standing up, so in that regards whitebeard died half-'tank'. Sure, I'll admit, the Anime makes it seem like Jinbe cant even walk, but both portrays him as A. in pretty horrid condition and B. unable to fight back. Whether you want to chuck this up to realizing he was powerless against the admiral or because of his injuries I care not for cause I find it silly to think it wasnt the cause of his injuries.

with that out of the way, I need to ask a partially-stupid sounding question; Is fishman island covered in water.
This would sound stupid to alot of people, but think of it; Fishman island is in a bubble in seawater. That would make me think fishman island is dry, or inside, normal water. Lets say this is the case (Unsure if it is myself), do Fishmen get boosted in non-seawatery areas? I know you can use karate with anything that has water in it, but do you get the statistic modifier if say, you were submerged in coffee? in an aquarium? There has to be a limit to this otherwise he could technically submerged in anything with "H2O" and get the boosts because that is the chemical components of water.

sorry if this post seems messy, Ive tried to clean it up from what the original draft was. I went halfway through the post before going "Oh you can add more replies half-way through the pre-written text." if need be, I will add sources for my claims for those who dont have it, however it might take a while.

Edit #1: I accidentally removed one of my points I had in the original while cleaning it up, woops! Im gonna add it back here;
(Couldnt find the exact quote but it went something like "law cant shamble big mom")
This statement from law was wano only, so you cant use that here if I cant use other Wano-Feats. Cant have your cake and eat it too.

 

[MonkeyOfLife]

I’ll reply later

 

[M1keyOnDiscord]

I’ll reply later

I'll be waiting; I want the most accurate conversation to be had here, I dont want to accidentally mis-represent and I dont want Jinbe nor Law to be done worse than they should be, or put higher than intended.

 

[MonkeyOfLife]

I'll be waiting; I want the most accurate conversation to be had here, I dont want to accidentally mis-represent and I dont want Jinbe nor Law to be done worse than they should be, or put higher than intended.

was gonna say actually won’t reply much and just show you stuff… but know I kinda need to

 

[MonkeyOfLife]

Ive Debunked the proof you send but you just go on and on about how jinbe is somehow stronger than doffy due to being able to knock big mom back (ignoring her high surface area to spread the force, making it easier to make it move in motion, thats how surface area works.), and surviving a Punch from Aikamu (which, to quote from One Piece's own wiki on law's medical abilities, " He was able to simultaneously operate on both Luffy and Jinbe right after both of them barely escaped a murderous Akainu who inflicted brutal life threatening injuries that left them on the brink of death and was successful in treating them." Now you cant even argue that "jinbe was 100% fine to fight after that attack!!1!").

Sorry but you have debunked nothing. Jinbe is stronger than doffy because we have feats... Big mom >>> gear 4th luffy (whole cake island) jinbe << big mom.... There are alot more as well... Yes law did threat jinbe and yes akainu did inflict life threatening injuries to jinbe.. But even with life threatening injuries he was able to stand and stay conscious (which doffy, law, luffy and ace can't do.... White beard was the only one that could still fight back from)

"Haki's capability to counter Devil Fruit Users extends past Logia types and lets them defend against certain Paramecia effects. However, this is dependant on the strength of the Haki, as Law bypassed Vergo's Haki and bifurcated him easily by using his Devil Fruit technique, although it is unknown if Law used his own Haki to overcome Vergo's Haki."

I have told you this many times... Why I scaled jinbe to big mom and akainu was to show how much stronger haki he has than doffy, law, vergo maybe even luffy...

It seems pretty obvious that Law has the upper advantage here, another quote from One piece's wiki on haki,

Upper advantage on what?

Law has also been seen being able to straight-up block Doflamingo's Goshikito without any damage as seen here, along with being able to use Mes on Smoker.

Jinbe uses dura neg attacks... Link and link and mes on smoker means nothing... 1. Surprise attack 2. Base luffy has stronger haki than smoker... Smoker is literally nothing not sure why you brought him up when he is literally coby lvl of armament haki in that arc...

This isnt even mentioning Law's Sword aswell, being able to ALSO deflect Doffy's string attack to some degree (as well, it isnt broken currently.)

Won't be able to deflect jinbe.

Gonna say this clearly; I am not trying to say law would have an easy win against Jinbe. Law's simple wins, like spatial slicing, most definitely wouldnt work on Jinbe. They didnt work on Doffy majority of their battle, or when Doffy catches his sword, and it would be dishonest to say Jinbe's haki is equal to Smoker or Vergo, I would place it equal to doffy at the low end, and somewhere below Katakuri (more on that later.)

By feats it can be higher than katakuri... Or =... Link and link also the other feats with big mom and akainu.

1. Jinbe's haki can only apply on his two arms. He cant be like vergo and apply it through his whole body, or be like Doffy (using his devil fruit) and have his string-like attacks be able to help against Law's attacks, or repair vital organs hurt from Gamma Knife.

Proficient Haki Users: Haki users of this level have the capacity to coat the majority or even entirety of their body with Busoshoku: Koka, and can even extend the ability beyond their body and affect their weapons, attire, and even projectiles. The strength of this class of Haki surpasses the previous classes by a significant level.

2. Even if Jinbe could do it on his entire body, he has no internal-protection from something like mes, countershock, injection shot, or gamma knife. They are all closed ranged, I get that, but if you're telling me Jinbe, who is a marital-artist, is gonna pretend to be a spellcaster from D&D and keep long-distance between him and Law, then that just seems pretty stupid.

Those dura neg attacks will barely work... Doffy got hit with alot of those and was still able to fight back and overpower law... Jinbe >> doffy (haki)

3. Law has some knowledge on Jinbe's internal structure, as seen by the fact he saved Jinbe's life, meaning Mes or Injection shot is 100% on the table.

Not how he fights, how strong he is or how strong haki he has.

And we cant say Jinbe's Haki is through the roof. He didnt manage to hit katakuri (even with the help of 2 other people), and this own wiki has said Katakuri's superior than Doffy. So with that VS battle we can reasonably say Jinbe's haki is somewhere between Doffy's and Katakuri, as if Jinbe was stronger than Katakuri (in haki) he would've bypassed his Paramecia-logia like mochi. And before you try saying "it's logia, it isnt affected by Busoshoku Haki", from The Wiki page about Logia DF,
"The most common way to bypass Logia protections is by using Busoshoku Haki. Haki does not prevent Logia users from transforming or completely deactivate the transformation; rather, once a Haki-imbued object makes contact with a transformed body, the body part that is struck reverts to its solid form. Thus, a Logia user that is hit with a Haki-imbued attack in their transformed state will be harmed as if they had not transformed." This implies if Jinbe wished to he would've grabbed the Mochi Katakuri or punched it and actually hurt him, which is not what was seen in WCI trying to stop Katakuri reaching Luffy.

Um... You do know that you can't touch katakuri because he is dodging with observation haki... link and link not sure what you mean with he didn't manage to hit katakuri even with the help of 2 other people. And that wiki is a versus match... They can be wrong not sure why you linked that... It isn't reliable (also how did anyone even vote doffy against katakuri)

Now that is out of the way (so ya'll can stop comparing jinbe to big mom), Im gonna go on about some of the statements mentioned and try to put my input on them.

Sorry but you again said nothing new or important there

Now I know ya'll like mentioning this, but I dont see how this would help Jinbe. Not all fishman karate techniques can send shockwaves like he does with vagabond drill specifically, for example earlier in the Big Mom fight (from what I can tell) Shoulder Throw doesnt, and does nothing to big mom besides making her wet and annoyed, like a water gun. I might be misunderstood with this feat, as I am not very well aware of to what extent each karate move does, but please elaborate on this for my sake that way I can realize why this is such a strong argument everyone says.

I linked how it works but I'll link again

This is technically incorrect if we use Wano, but ya'll get mad if I say that so whatever. I cant even find any non-Wano fights to reasonably compare Law VS Big mom or Kaido unless you want to consider the One Piece fighting games which... yeah no scaling to the likes of those is jank cause anyone can lose to/win against anyone.

Im just gonna go on general points made now, gonna try to not repeat myself in this post;

This is like using luffy pre timeskip and using feats post timeskip.... Mostly Everyone gets stronger, some more than others even more with haki... link.

Buddy, buddy, hey listen, thats not how that works. Just cause you can be resistant to it doesnt mean you can completely be immune to it, atleast not Counter Shock. An example of that would literally be doffy, who couldnt be shambled or amputated (I believe), but still was able to get counter shock'd. (One handed I should say, which does affect law's abilites to some point like Doffy stopping Law from using Mes by grabbing his hand, but thats off-topic to this portion.)

That guy knows that more than you link and link

Unsure of what the not portion refers to. We saw law straight-up ignore One-of Doffy's attacks using his haki. And if you're talking about Gamma Knife and the sort, Idk what you're on about, this is specifically towards King as he didnt finish this sentence as-of the VS thread Im quoting it from.

he said Jinbe has more consistent dura neg that is not dependent on the opponent's level of buso. (this means that you can't defend against jinbe's attacks with haki)

(though law isnt one afaik), and I will give jinbe advantage in close ranged, he most-likely is better H2H-person than doffy, and I would say better reaction time, and thus could most-likely catch Law's blade in some scenarios. So I can actually agree to this, but it doesnt give him the win instantly.

This alone with haki can make jinbe win.

Not big-mom level, and even then (with wano -> Law can hurt big mom), I wouldnt say this gives him the instant win. He does have better haki than law, but we've seen law hurt people who have superior haki, such-as Doffy.

Doffy has weaker haki than jinbe... Even if we use pre timeskip jinbe haki. Also no one has said jinbe has big mom lvl of haki... But he is much closer than doffy, law and maybe even gear 4th luffy.

... thats like me saying "All for one is weak because it relies on the quirk of other users to be strong", or in One Piece's argument, "Big mom is weak because her DF requires homies to boost her power" thats just not a good argument. and if we take Vergo, which we are unaware of if Law used haki against, to some degree Law doesnt depend on opponent's haki level to fight, or atleast that could be argued for.

again he means that law with no matter how strong armament haki can't defend against jinbe's attacks.

It's submerged in water, not just existing near water. More on this later so that way I can have the water-thoughts all in one area.

This is the island

and this is inside the island (one of the places)

If we take Wano Jinbe into account,

No. Just don't use wano... Until they are applied in the profiles... Because you literally don't know what can happen since wano isn't finished... What if the next chapter jinbe can one shot kaido... This is why we don't use wano yet.

"Barely works" really? really? no, Just no. That is such bull

That is true.. And it isn't bull at all

, he doesnt purely rely on shambling or amputating opponents and I don't see why he cant shamble himself like he usually does..?

He can but again... He only uses it when he really needs too because it is taxing on law's stamina... And don't use wano... Because your devil fruit can literally be stronger the more you use and work them link

This makes it seem like law doesnt have an unhealthy amount of stamina. Also implies he would have to use it constantly against Jinbe which just doesnt seem fair to law.

• Starting Distance: 1km | Range: Several hundreds of meters to a few kilometers with projectiles. (jinbe) | Range: A few meters with his blade, kilometers with his Room (law)

as you can see laws range won't work because of haki and law would need to teleport to dodge jinbes projectiles...

Unless Jinbe has sword-length "punches" (And no Im not talking about Jinbe punching the air to do shockwaves, different from the 1st approach), cant reasonably use vegabond drill in that scenario as law would most likely shambles to behind (as law is a strategist, would probs find a rock or something to use shambles with.)

Again range, law's stamina and what is law going to do once he's behind him? Doffy can deal with stratagies like that... Why won't jinbe

Unless Jinbe has sword-length "punches"

He does... Jinbe is much bigger than law link (zoom in bottom left) (law height: 191 cm | Jinbe height: 301 cm)

with that out of the way, I need to ask a partially-stupid sounding question; Is fishman island covered in water.
This would sound stupid to alot of people, but think of it; Fishman island is in a bubble in seawater. That would make me think fishman island is dry, or inside, normal water. Lets say this is the case (Unsure if it is myself), do Fishmen get boosted in non-seawatery areas? I know you can use karate with anything that has water in it, but do you get the statistic modifier if say, you were submerged in coffee? in an aquarium? There has to be a limit to this otherwise he could technically submerged in anything with "H2O" and get the boosts because that is the chemical components of water.

I have linked how much water there is on that island... And yes it should work on any water....

sorry if this post seems messy, Ive tried to clean it up from what the original draft was. I went halfway through the post before going "Oh you can add more replies half-way through the pre-written text." if need be, I will add sources for my claims for those who dont have it, however it might take a while.

It was good but... You said nothing that debunks anything or said anything on why law wins. You clearly don't have knowledge about one piece so I don't understand why you're keep arguing when none of what you say support law or is anything new...

Well... Just wasted my time... I won't reply anymore because you can't say anything new or a reason why law wins... I'll just recommend you watch one piece before you reply because even people who has had alot of time invested in one piece are confused and still don't know what they're saying but bye

 

[M1keyOnDiscord]

But even with life threatening injuries he was able to stand and stay conscious (which doffy, law, luffy and ace can't do.... White beard was the only one that could still fight back from)

Only reason he stayed conscious was to protect luffy. Which is why he was also on the operating table, trust me if he was 100% fine he would've been like zoros and kept that wound for mental strength aswell. :/

Upper advantage on what?

Maybe you should read the next portion before trying to represent like I didnt show anything, but ya know, I'll say it here too

cause apparently you like mis-representing details;

"Haki's capability to counter Devil Fruit Users extends past Logia types and lets them defend against certain Paramecia effects. However, this is dependant on the strength of the Haki, as Law bypassed Vergo's Haki and bifurcated him easily by using his Devil Fruit technique, although it is unknown if Law used his own Haki to overcome Vergo's Haki."

the last part literally says "as Law bypassed Vergo's Haki and bifurcated him easily by using his Devil Fruit technique, although it is unknown if Law used his own Haki to overcome Vergo's Haki." It's unknown. Simple as that. Some can say law did, some can say law didn't.

Jinbe uses dura neg attacks... Link and link and mes on smoker means nothing... 1. Surprise attack 2. Base luffy has stronger haki than smoker... Smoker is literally nothing not sure why you brought him up when he is literally coby lvl of armament haki in that arc...

Shouldn't have brought up smoker 'cause now you're gonna buckle down and use it against me. Anyways, from those two links, it looks like the shockwaves are pretty visible, anything stopping Law from using shambles? 'Cause you cant say they would hit before ROOM is created either, doubt law would let him make a pose before that lol.

Won't be able to deflect jinbe.

Damn you're not even hiding it anymore, not even trying to provide a link or anything for this claim lmao. From what I know, we've never seen the sword break. Period. So technically I could be extreme and say it scales to Big Mom+, but that would be illogical and unfair.

Sorry but you again said nothing new or important there

Really? I showed how Jinbe is inbetween Katakuri or Doffy, NOT equal to Big mom or Akainu. Comparing his feats against Big mom to Big mom is a exaggeration. Taking my messages out of context is not painting a reliable picture for you in my honest opinion.

This is like using luffy pre timeskip and using feats post timeskip.... Mostly Everyone gets stronger, some more than others even more with haki... link.

I dont see why you're trying to say law gained that much between the time... I really dont see any valid argument for that... some training? Maybe, but realistically the only change I see is adding Curtain to his moveset, which is why I myself haven't said he could use it, 'cause at this point he didn't have it. In that argument I could say dressona law is weaker than wano usopp, just doesnt make sense to say something like that.

That guy knows that more than you link and link

Quote from that 2nd link; "And Smoker's point is brought up again when Vergo fights Law, referring to how Haki can block Law's abilities." What does that say? CAN, not WILL. Doffy had superior haki and STILL got affected by other attacks other than spatial slashes. Wait, what does that 1st link say as an example? "The Spatial Slashes of the Ope Ope no Mi are offensive abilities, which have been stated on canon to be resisted." Huh. what does he say there? "to be resisted" not "immediately immune upon applying haki" like I said prior, its unknown if Law used his haki to hurt Vergo, so it would be misleading for me to say "X" for either. But its fair to use either possibility as an idea. These links don't show me ANYTHING without scrolling through the entire thread, which I myself will not be doing due to not caring enough, if you want to show me a specific point about Gamma Knife, Countershock, or Injectionshot, all attacks that hurt doffy cough cough, then feel free to do so.

he said Jinbe has more consistent dura neg that is not dependent on the opponent's level of buso. (this means that you can't defend against jinbe's attacks with haki)

Thats valid, but has anyone got out of his AoE attack of shockwaves? If so, Law could do it himself with Shambles. If not, then I guess law would have to find some way to surprise Jinbe, which is possible, to get a hit on him.

This alone with haki can make jinbe win.

That is not true. Doffy had superior haki, did he outright win against it? No. Infact, thinking about it, Law used his haki against one of Doffy's attack and sustained no injuries, even though we can all agree doffy has superior haki. But I digress.

Doffy has weaker haki than jinbe... Even if we use pre timeskip jinbe haki. Also no one has said jinbe has big mom lvl of haki... But he is much closer than doffy, law and maybe even gear 4th luffy.

Yeah, I can say someone's closer if I compare it linearly. But I clearly gave a defined point of where his haki would be (Using WCI no less), somewhere between Dressona Doffy to WCI Katakuri. Its as nice and clean as that. Idc how big of a gap that is, it can be argued to be "near" big mom (thats extremely vague sounding), but I established a pretty sound argument for why it's less-than Katakuri.

again he means that law with no matter how strong armament haki can't defend against jinbe's attacks.

That's fine. I didnt know How fishman karate worked, but from what Ive been able to tell with law, some of law's attacks can hurt people with superior haki.

That is true.. And it isn't bull at all

Law's DF works just fine lmao, only thing that gets nerfed almost off the bat is his spatial slices, or moves that uses said slices, everything else from what I've seen is pretty much fair game with minor limitations.

• Starting Distance: 1km | Range: Several hundreds of meters to a few kilometers with projectiles. (jinbe) | Range: A few meters with his blade, kilometers with his Room (law)

as you can see laws range won't work because of haki and law would need to teleport to dodge jinbes projectiles...

And what would stop law from creating room, teleporting, get rid of old room, etc...? cant say his stamina is that bad, he's not a chain-smoker from the 80s...

and this is inside the island (one of the places)

Thats what I needed to see. Cause lets be honest, if the inside of the island was like 80% water, law would stand very minor chance, but it looks like there's a fair bit, atleast in that specific portion, for law to fight on land. also I dont wanna think about how Jinbe's ability would be boosted from being 'underwater' on the island while being on dry land, that makes my head hurt a little.

He can but again... He only uses it when he really needs too because it is taxing on law's stamina... And don't use wano... Because your devil fruit can literally be stronger the more you use and work them link

I haven't been trying to use wano, as per-request, but if X comes from Wano and you guys were using it, like the "cant teleport big mom" statement, then hey technically maybe law exchanged his haki for DF power, who knows honestly, we live in a world where Araki says some of the wackiest things for JoJo, I dont see why One Piece cant say the same. (Not saying this is the case, just saying its a possibility.)Like I said prior, his stamina isnt that of a chain-smoker from the 80s, he has quite a bit of strategy to get closer to jinbe. also, can jinbe see 1km away? Or do his projectiles just home-in? I know he did that shoulder-throw to BM but A. Gravity was put into his throw and B. Unsure of how far away from the boat he was when he did that tbh. (I am unsure distance wise.)

Again range, law's stamina and what is law going to do once he's behind him? Doffy can deal with stratagies like that... Why won't jinbe

Well when law gets behind him, he could do about anything he could do from the side of him, or infront of him, etc. All that matters is the range.

He does... Jinbe is much bigger than law link (zoom in bottom left) (law height: 191 cm | Jinbe height: 301 cm)

Couldnt law use this to his advantage? Bigger foes means bigger spots of vulnerability.

I have linked how much water there is on that island... And yes it should work on any water....

A. that caramel throw he did, or whatever that brown-ish tinged fluid was, shows that the Karate can, and I appreciate the linking to the inside of the island, the outside had helped me absolutely 0 from the way I was looking at it.

It was good but... You said nothing that debunks anything or said anything on why law wins

This is correct. The point of the post wasnt to show how Law would win, it was to show how Jinbe isnt that much better. From what ya'll were painting it, Law could do nothing against jinbe, and what he could do wasnt feasible to happen. Which that sounds more like a stomp in just character logistics than anything else. the point of that post was to de-value Jinbe's abilitys that ya'll kept hyping while trying to say what I know to be true, while ask about what I was unsure about (like the interior of the island, what type of exact 'fluid' is required for the statistics boost he gets, etc.)

You clearly don't have knowledge about one piece so I don't understand why you're keep arguing when none of what you say support law or is anything new...

Again, my point is to argue how he could win by showing jinbe's strength, not what he "could be at", like you've been doing when you bring up BM or Akainu.
I proved that WCI Jinbe is between Dressona Doffy and WCI Katakuri, even if that VS battle was in awakening mode (And the final score was 7-4 in Katakuri's favor, showing that it was kinda similar to this battle in scoring, 6-4 I think, idk if the vote counter has been updated.), I dont see how the argument could be blocked. Then again, I dont know what the explicit difference in power is between awakening and non-awakening.

Well... Just wasted my time... I won't reply anymore because you can't say anything new or a reason why law wins... I'll just recommend you watch one piece before you reply because even people who has had alot of time invested in one piece are confused and still don't know what they're saying but bye

Ive already stated the reasons law can win with absolutely nothing changing that. All Ive been doing is downproving your jinbe statments. And Im suprised you "recommend I watch one piece before I reply" because A. Manga > Anime, not gonna waste half my life on that filler, and B. I have been searching aswell, I've learned more about one piece researching how bad Jinbe is than anything else! So before you assume how much I've researched, you should just say that you dont like my points because thats your opinion.

anyone who decides to vote after this, sorry to say this but the burden of proof is on you ig. if you wanna vote for jinbe or law, I recommend using your prior knowledge or comparing the fights like I did. At this point, I most-likely wont care about this thread and Ive shown how law could win originally and now I just have to show how bad Jinbe is compared to how much they're hyping him up.

kudos, M1keyOnDiscord

 

[MonkeyOfLife]

Only reason he stayed conscious was to protect luffy. Which is why he was also on the operating table, trust me if he was 100% fine he would've been like zoros and kept that wound for mental strength aswell. :/

Maybe you should read the next portion before trying to represent like I didnt show anything, but ya know, I'll say it here too

cause apparently you like mis-representing details;

the last part literally says "as Law bypassed Vergo's Haki and bifurcated him easily by using his Devil Fruit technique, although it is unknown if Law used his own Haki to overcome Vergo's Haki." It's unknown. Simple as that. Some can say law did, some can say law didn't.

Shouldn't have brought up smoker 'cause now you're gonna buckle down and use it against me. Anyways, from those two links, it looks like the shockwaves are pretty visible, anything stopping Law from using shambles? 'Cause you cant say they would hit before ROOM is created either, doubt law would let him make a pose before that lol.

Damn you're not even hiding it anymore, not even trying to provide a link or anything for this claim lmao. From what I know, we've never seen the sword break. Period. So technically I could be extreme and say it scales to Big Mom+, but that would be illogical and unfair.


Really? I showed how Jinbe is inbetween Katakuri or Doffy, NOT equal to Big mom or Akainu. Comparing his feats against Big mom to Big mom is a exaggeration. Taking my messages out of context is not painting a reliable picture for you in my honest opinion.

I dont see why you're trying to say law gained that much between the time... I really dont see any valid argument for that... some training? Maybe, but realistically the only change I see is adding Curtain to his moveset, which is why I myself haven't said he could use it, 'cause at this point he didn't have it. In that argument I could say dressona law is weaker than wano usopp, just doesnt make sense to say something like that.

Quote from that 2nd link; "And Smoker's point is brought up again when Vergo fights Law, referring to how Haki can block Law's abilities." What does that say? CAN, not WILL. Doffy had superior haki and STILL got affected by other attacks other than spatial slashes. Wait, what does that 1st link say as an example? "The Spatial Slashes of the Ope Ope no Mi are offensive abilities, which have been stated on canon to be resisted." Huh. what does he say there? "to be resisted" not "immediately immune upon applying haki" like I said prior, its unknown if Law used his haki to hurt Vergo, so it would be misleading for me to say "X" for either. But its fair to use either possibility as an idea. These links don't show me ANYTHING without scrolling through the entire thread, which I myself will not be doing due to not caring enough, if you want to show me a specific point about Gamma Knife, Countershock, or Injectionshot, all attacks that hurt doffy cough cough, then feel free to do so.

Thats valid, but has anyone got out of his AoE attack of shockwaves? If so, Law could do it himself with Shambles. If not, then I guess law would have to find some way to surprise Jinbe, which is possible, to get a hit on him.


That is not true. Doffy had superior haki, did he outright win against it? No. Infact, thinking about it, Law used his haki against one of Doffy's attack and sustained no injuries, even though we can all agree doffy has superior haki. But I digress.

Yeah, I can say someone's closer if I compare it linearly. But I clearly gave a defined point of where his haki would be (Using WCI no less), somewhere between Dressona Doffy to WCI Katakuri. Its as nice and clean as that. Idc how big of a gap that is, it can be argued to be "near" big mom (thats extremely vague sounding), but I established a pretty sound argument for why it's less-than Katakuri.


That's fine. I didnt know How fishman karate worked, but from what Ive been able to tell with law, some of law's attacks can hurt people with superior haki.

Law's DF works just fine lmao, only thing that gets nerfed almost off the bat is his spatial slices, or moves that uses said slices, everything else from what I've seen is pretty much fair game with minor limitations.

And what would stop law from creating room, teleporting, get rid of old room, etc...? cant say his stamina is that bad, he's not a chain-smoker from the 80s...

Thats what I needed to see. Cause lets be honest, if the inside of the island was like 80% water, law would stand very minor chance, but it looks like there's a fair bit, atleast in that specific portion, for law to fight on land. also I dont wanna think about how Jinbe's ability would be boosted from being 'underwater' on the island while being on dry land, that makes my head hurt a little.

I haven't been trying to use wano, as per-request, but if X comes from Wano and you guys were using it, like the "cant teleport big mom" statement, then hey technically maybe law exchanged his haki for DF power, who knows honestly, we live in a world where Araki says some of the wackiest things for JoJo, I dont see why One Piece cant say the same. (Not saying this is the case, just saying its a possibility.)Like I said prior, his stamina isnt that of a chain-smoker from the 80s, he has quite a bit of strategy to get closer to jinbe. also, can jinbe see 1km away? Or do his projectiles just home-in? I know he did that shoulder-throw to BM but A. Gravity was put into his throw and B. Unsure of how far away from the boat he was when he did that tbh. (I am unsure distance wise.)

Well when law gets behind him, he could do about anything he could do from the side of him, or infront of him, etc. All that matters is the range.

Couldnt law use this to his advantage? Bigger foes means bigger spots of vulnerability.

A. that caramel throw he did, or whatever that brown-ish tinged fluid was, shows that the Karate can, and I appreciate the linking to the inside of the island, the outside had helped me absolutely 0 from the way I was looking at it.

This is correct. The point of the post wasnt to show how Law would win, it was to show how Jinbe isnt that much better. From what ya'll were painting it, Law could do nothing against jinbe, and what he could do wasnt feasible to happen. Which that sounds more like a stomp in just character logistics than anything else. the point of that post was to de-value Jinbe's abilitys that ya'll kept hyping while trying to say what I know to be true, while ask about what I was unsure about (like the interior of the island, what type of exact 'fluid' is required for the statistics boost he gets, etc.)

Again, my point is to argue how he could win by showing jinbe's strength, not what he "could be at", like you've been doing when you bring up BM or Akainu.
I proved that WCI Jinbe is between Dressona Doffy and WCI Katakuri, even if that VS battle was in awakening mode (And the final score was 7-4 in Katakuri's favor, showing that it was kinda similar to this battle in scoring, 6-4 I think, idk if the vote counter has been updated.), I dont see how the argument could be blocked. Then again, I dont know what the explicit difference in power is between awakening and non-awakening.

Ive already stated the reasons law can win with absolutely nothing changing that. All Ive been doing is downproving your jinbe statments. And Im suprised you "recommend I watch one piece before I reply" because A. Manga > Anime, not gonna waste half my life on that filler, and B. I have been searching aswell, I've learned more about one piece researching how bad Jinbe is than anything else! So before you assume how much I've researched, you should just say that you dont like my points because thats your opinion.

anyone who decides to vote after this, sorry to say this but the burden of proof is on you ig. if you wanna vote for jinbe or law, I recommend using your prior knowledge or comparing the fights like I did. At this point, I most-likely wont care about this thread and Ive shown how law could win originally and now I just have to show how bad Jinbe is compared to how much they're hyping him up.

kudos, M1keyOnDiscord

Just wanna say... That this was a lowkey stomp to jinbe once I knew they were fighting underwater. Law would need to slice all the water or teleport to survive which would already be a huge disadvantage... Also you again said nothing useful and said some wrong stuff but... Well I'm done with this, you are clearly not listening. Wrote all that for nothing ... Also hyping up jinbe? Nothing I said was hyping up jinbe... I literally just told you what he did and can do. Also luffy who has much better observation haki than law couldn't dodge jinbe's Fishman karate...

 

[Nierre]

Jinbe's cqc/h2h is what gives him his wincon. Every ranged move Law has can be countered by Jinbe's haki, and Jinbe's mastery over fishman karate easily allows him to avoid Law's blows, and give him the win. Mes? Grab his arm and throw him away, and follow up with Gyojin Karate Ougi: Buraikan, or Gosenmaigawara Seiken. Injection Shot? He needs to actually aim it. While he's aiming/charging at Jinbe with it, Karakusagawara Seiken should do the trick. Counter Shock? It's definitely possible to hit and paralyze Jinbe, but each time he used it he caught them off guard (Doffy and Vergo), not saying he wouldn't catch Jinbe off guard but Vergo and Doffy were toying with Law up to that point, and in this battle, they'll both be taking each other seriously, so it's going to take alot more for Law to actually catch Jinbe off guard. Anyways, same with Mes, he can easily jsut grab him by the arm and throw him over his shoulder and follow up with any of his moves. Maybe slam him into the ground into Samegawara Seiken, or really any of his cqc moves. Gamma Knife? He had to catch Doflamingo off guard to even hit him via Shambles. While it's not impossible for him to use it, I doubt the battle will last long to the point where he'll pull it out since it's his ultimate move. Also I'd argue that Jinbe has better stamina, since Law's df abilities does take a decent amount from him, whereas we've yet to see Jinbe fatigued from using any of his moves.

Like I said before Jinbe should win mid-low diff

 

[Nierre]

So far the votes are:

Jinbe: Monkey, Tempest, Fluffy, King Allen, NomsNoms
Law: Ryuga, StrawHatAslan, Thanatos, M1key, Sonicflare

(I'm not sure if we should include Ryuga's and StrawHat's votes because Ryuga mentioned Curtain which is a move he used in Wano, and StrawHat said fra. I also didn't include Purgy's vote cause he said Law stomps but without any reasoning)

 

[FluffyCreatureZ]

Jinbe: Monkey, Tempest, Fluffy, King Allen, NomsNoms

Excuse me it's not just Fluffy, it's "Sir Fluffy the Second".

 

[M1keyOnDiscord]

Just wanna say... That this was a lowkey stomp to jinbe once I knew they were fighting underwater. Law would need to slice all the water or teleport to survive which would already be a huge disadvantage... Also you again said nothing useful and said some wrong stuff but... Well I'm done with this, you are clearly not listening. Wrote all that for nothing ... Also hyping up jinbe? Nothing I said was hyping up jinbe... I literally just told you what he did and can do. Also luffy who has much better observation haki than law couldn't dodge jinbe's Fishman karate...

Just saying, I dont think they would fight underwater, because Jinbe (in-Character) seems like hes a very morally right person, for example, he could've went after Big-mom After using vegabond Drill and tried to get her stuck underwater thus killing her off, but he didnt. Same with the shoulder throw, nothing stopped him from continuously attacking underwater but he instead came to the surface. I think he would do something similar here against law. Trust me if Law & Jinbe are forced underwater, which very obviously there is land for Law and Jinbe to fight on, then I would say this was a stomp due to law having not-as-good mobility underwater alone, let alone everything else like his inability to breathe underwater like Jinbe can.

Jinbe in character does not seem like the type of person to try and go in the water and force Law to follow him. And if they both start on the dry land, like they should reasonably, then Jinbe running away just seems like to me to be incon. I dont see why law would use room and try to dodge his projectile attacks, like Shoulder Throw, if he could just go somewhere jinbe wouldn't be able to reasonably target Law, leading to more of an Incon than a win for either if we want to make that argument.

 

[MonkeyOfLife]

Just saying, I dont think they would fight underwater, because Jinbe (in-Character) seems like hes a very morally right person, for example, he could've went after Big-mom After using vegabond Drill and tried to get her stuck underwater thus killing her off, but he didnt. Same with the shoulder throw, nothing stopped him from continuously attacking underwater but he instead came to the surface. I think he would do something similar here against law. Trust me if Law & Jinbe are forced underwater, which very obviously there is land for Law and Jinbe to fight on, then I would say this was a stomp due to law having not-as-good mobility underwater alone, let alone everything else like his inability to breathe underwater like Jinbe can.

Jinbe in character does not seem like the type of person to try and go in the water and force Law to follow him. And if they both start on the dry land, like they should reasonably, then Jinbe running away just seems like to me to be incon. I dont see why law would use room and try to dodge his projectile attacks, like Shoulder Throw, if he could just go somewhere jinbe wouldn't be able to reasonably target Law, leading to more of an Incon than a win for either if we want to make that argument.

Incon... Really there is no way this is incon...

Just saying, I dont think they would fight underwater, because Jinbe (in-Character) seems like hes a very morally right person, for example, he could've went after Big-mom After using vegabond Drill and tried to get her stuck underwater thus killing her off, but he didnt.

He literally tried to punch big mom into the water... He didn't afterwards because she now knows what he's going to do and she is much stronger than jinbe... Jinbe has so many ways to win... While Law might have 2-3 maybe wins...

 

[MonkeyOfLife]

Excuse me it's not just Fluffy, it's "Sir Fluffy the Second".

Who

 

[TauanVictor]

Jinbe in character does not seem like the type of person to try and go in the water and force Law to follow him. And if they both start on the dry land, like they should reasonably, then Jinbe running away just seems like to me to be incon. I dont see why law would use room and try to dodge his projectile attacks, like Shoulder Throw, if he could just go somewhere jinbe wouldn't be able to reasonably target Law, leading to more of an Incon than a win for either if we want to make that argument.

So, voting Incon?

 

[TauanVictor]

And yes, both are starting on dry land lol

 

[M1keyOnDiscord]

So, voting Incon?

No, My vote is still On Law, I was just pointing out his viewpoint on the 'jinbe goes into water = stomp' argument.

 

[MonkeyOfLife]

No, My vote is still On Law, I was just pointing out his viewpoint on the 'jinbe goes into water = stomp' argument.

No I meant jinbe just Drowning law by spam throwing water... Like this

But doubt that's really in character kinda

 

[MonkeyOfLife]

(I'm not sure if we should include Ryuga's and StrawHat's votes because Ryuga mentioned Curtain which is a move he used in Wano, and StrawHat said fra. I also didn't include Purgy's vote cause he said Law stomps but without any reasoning)

These votes should be removed if they don't reply with a new reasons why law wins.

 

[TauanVictor]

Bump

 

[TauanVictor]

Advising you that I've decided to remove Purgy's vote.

For now, 5 - 5

 

[TauanVictor]

Bump

Taking advantage of the Bump, I wanted to know if I could wait for Wano to finish to continue the discussion of this match in a more "correct" way, let's say.

 

[KingTempest]

When Wano is finished the scaling is gonna be jacked.

People are ignoring haki and ignoring that this is Law during Dressrosa, so this is a lost cause

 

[TauanVictor]

When Wano is finished the scaling is gonna be jacked.

People are ignoring haki and ignoring that this is Law during Dressrosa, so this is a lost cause

But if we let it cool down to Wano, wouldn't it be "necro"?

 

[KingTempest]

Most likely unless you bump it consistently, but nothing in Wano affects these 2 keys.

 

[TauanVictor]

Most likely unless you bump it consistently, but nothing in Wano affects these 2 keys.

Yes, I even considered waiting for Wano to run out as a lot of the comments used Wano's feats for a Dressrosa key.

Anyway, there are still people who think Law wins even with the Dressrosa key, so...

 

[KingTempest]

These matches are a popularity contest. Someone could win even if they have no wincons.

I've said my own. Jinbe has superior haki, so he resists most of Law's attacks.

 

[TauanVictor]

These matches are a popularity contest. Someone could win even if they have no wincons.

A vote cannot be counted without a wincon, right? How is this possible?

 

[KingTempest]

Wincon ≠ Valid wincon. Half the arguments here were either
A. Wano keys
B. Abilities that get resisted

 

[TauanVictor]

Wincon ≠ Valid wincon. Half the arguments here were either
A. Wano keys
B. Abilities that get resisted

Understood.

I even remembered a VS match "Obito VS Gojo" where you said that Obito didn't have a valid wincon and still won.

 

[TauanVictor]

So, in that case, would I have to bump constantly until Wano was concluded to not be considered "necro"?

 

[KingTempest]

Yeah (not every day, just make sure 2-3 months don't go by without a bump)

 

[TauanVictor]

Bump

 

[TauanVictor]

Bump

 

[TauanVictor]

Bump

 

[Eminiteable]

If I haven't already voted I'll vote Jinbe