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Tower of God General Discussion Thread Part 5

([USER=6545 said:
@Enryu_The_Red_Tower[/USER]
Question: I'm still new here so I don't know how calc posting works. Should I just put it here or make a new thread? Because I might also have more things to say because I've realized something when it comes to the 2 speed calcs we have for ToG characters)
Click to expand...
You should do a new thread to the calc that you want to talk about
 
Okay so, according to here:
apparently a few months to over a year from now, Daily Pass (It's a thing where after a certain point from the CH 1, you get 2 free episodes a day of a completed series and have use coins to read more) is probably gonna get applied to Tower of God, despite it not actually being completed.

Now, ignoring the ramifications for things like how you can't upload things with too many panels from locked chapters (everything past Ch 15 in this case), thus putting SonWuu's entire 100 Stream Climb, the ToG Dub, or potentially the whole freaking ToG Wiki (if it applies to non video stuff as well) in jeopardy sometime in the future, this is also gonna impede finding shots for calcs significantly. (I have to click through several chapters alone to find a shot sometimes).

So uhhh, I either recommend that those interested start taking screenshots by the fudge ton, or find a good pirating site...
 
??? a floor has minimun 120++ KM scaling from the tower that Young Jahad made, what thread?
assuming that Poe Bidau statement aboit a floor=digital floor ofc
 
Enryu_The_Red_Tower said:
Yes, the jump of 7-A to Low 6-B is weird, but since we don't have any notable feat 6-C or High 6-C, that's the most we can do, unless you remember a feat interesting to calculate
Click to expand...
I'VE DONE IT! WE FINALLY HAVE A 6-C FEAT (almost sort of)! (Have a 6-C Feat again at least, after Bam shaking the Hidden Floor was disregarded and Maschenny's storm was redone) (It's when 3 Rankers stop the Hell Train.)
This scales to small groups of Rankers, end of S2 Bam w/ Seppuku Mode (since he easily overpowered the Vice Alter Director and Charlie working together), and likely individual Advanced Rankers (aka just Jordan since he's the only relevant Advanced Ranker)
 
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ElajRuengies said:
I'VE DONE IT! WE FINALLY HAVE A 6-C FEAT (almost sort of)! (Have a 6-C Feat again at least, after Bam shaking the Hidden Floor was disregarded and Maschenny's storm was redone) (It's when 3 Rankers stop the Hell Train.)
This scales to small groups of Rankers, end of S2 Bam w/ Seppuku Mode (since he easily overpowered the Vice Alter Director and Charlie working together), and likely individual Advanced Rankers (aka just Jordan since he's the only relevant Advanced Ranker)
Click to expand...
I read your blog, the low-end is 7-A and the high-end is 6-C, but we usually use the low-end for the profiles

Also, if the calculation is accepted, you should make a thread so that we can talk about who scales to this feat
 
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ElajRuengies said:
Yeah that's why I said "almost sort-of". The sexy feet hunt is never gonna end is it?

Noted for later
Click to expand...
Honestly, looking more, considering that the calc you made is a very lowball, I think a good argument might make it possible to use the 6-C and High 7-A, I remember calcs where they are use a massive lowball methods and because of that, the people who approve of the calcs allow the high-end to be used, it may be the same case with the calc of the Three Rankers and Dorian Frog stopping the Hell Train, but a very good argument would be necessary for this to be able be approved
 
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oh boy this boutta be good, we will finally have a super accurate tiering system for tog characters. Sometimes i feel like SIU is indeed a vsbattles member, the range of feats is so damn smooth.
 
Enryu_The_Red_Tower said:
Honestly, looking more, considering that the calc you made is a very lowball, I think a good argument might make it possible to use the 6-C and High 7-A, I remember calcs where they are use a massive lowball methods and because of that, the people who approve of the calcs allow the high-end to be used, it may be the same case with the calc of the Three Rankers and Dorian Frog stopping the Hell Train, but a very good argument would be necessary for this to be able be approved
Click to expand...
Alright, I've included what I think is a pretty good argument for using the High Ball, so perhaps the 6-C Feat Hunt will finally be over after all...
Arceus0x said:
oh boy this boutta be good, we will finally have a super accurate tiering system for tog characters. Sometimes i feel like SIU is indeed a vsbattles member, the range of feats is so damn smooth.
Click to expand...
Indeed, now all we have to do is wait for the Calc to be evaluated... Whenever that'll happen
 
So I found this while watching AoA last Sunday; where Evankhell casually flies through a Jahad-Ship (They call it a floating castle but it looks like a ship) that covers the surroundings for actual kilometers, and punches a massive hole in it in the process, panels before her actual introduction. Right here. (S2 CH313) While this isn't above par for Evankhell, the fact that she did what was a Mountain-level feat (boring through around a cubic kilometer of machine) with no techniques helps solidify that High Rankers are at least somewhere in Tier 6 without much complicated math.

And speaking of complicated math, how long should I wait for the calc to be evaluated by the thread, before directly messaging a calc member so that I don't seem impatient?
 
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Enryu_The_Red_Tower said:
About that, I think you can ask for the help from @DemonGodMitchAubin to evaluate the calc
Click to expand...
Okay so, DMGA evaluated the calc yesterday and he said the [942 m/s Half Full Low-End] calc should be used, or;

(22.5028976 trillion kg/2) * 942.0360922^(2) = 9.9849E+18 J or 2386.45 Megatons-

but he also said to get a second calc group member to evaluate the blog since there's a lot of variables so now I'm waiting on Damage3245 to post their input.
 
Do you guys think that the Floor Guardians are capable of replicating practically any shinsoo ability/power that is not very specific and that is not of bloodline of a certain group?
 
Enryu_The_Red_Tower said:
Do you guys think that the Floor Guardians are capable of replicating practically any shinsoo ability/power that is not very specific and that is not of bloodline of a certain group?
Click to expand...
Considering what we know of them so far, I'd say it's safe to assume they can replicate if not perfectly copy any ability/power if it isn't to specific.
 
Enryu_The_Red_Tower said:
Would you consider which the specific abilities that they are not able to replicate?
Click to expand...
Do you mean which abilities specifically, I think they wouldn't be able to replicate ?

If so, basically any family related ability passed down by family or race, Ancient Power like Evankhell's, 13 months series, any other weapon comparable to them. I also don't see a Guardian wielding a sword and performing Arie level swordsman ship.

Of course this can change in the future if we ever see a Floor Guardian fight....which knowing this series. We'll have to wait a long time lmao
 
Do you think they are able to copy whatever powers/abilities that the EoB gave to Kallavan? Such as Limb Creation, Aura and others

I've been thinking about doing a CRT to discuss what powers the Floor Guardians should have and which that they shouldn't have via shinsoo control scaling

Which also means that the list of powers and abilities that Enryu resists will grow even more
 
Admins should have deconstruction.
and ironically, Elaine would have passive deconstruction.
only in Hunt Name Station
 
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Enryu_The_Red_Tower said:
Do you think they are able to copy whatever powers/abilities that the EoB gave to Kallavan? Such as Limb Creation, Aura and others

I've been thinking about doing a CRT to discuss what powers the Floor Guardians should have and which that they shouldn't have via shinsoo control scaling

Which also means that the list of powers and abilities that Enryu resists will grow even more
Click to expand...
For EoB, I honestly think that falls into the item (13 months kind of stuff) they can't replicate something like EoB, but they can mimic it. EoB never seemed that complicated to me, ignoring the obvious body modifications.

I think it's safe to assume, Floor guardians can replicate something close to what EoB does, without actually needing to copy it, but I'm not familiar enough with the VSwiki rules to know if that kind of scaling is allowed concerning abilities.
 
Guardians can seal away shinsoo control and you need to make contracts with them to use it. i think anything that regulars can do can be done by a guardian/administrator (irregulars are irregular for a reason)
 
I just assumed that Guardians could do anything that any other characters have been shown to do with shinsoo for control scaling reasons (including Irregulars since even Jahad can't beat one in a fight), unless it's specifically stated otherwise like in the case of the 13 Months. (So they're list of powers would be almost as long as Phanta's list of resistances)
 
When the calc of the Three Rankers stopping the Hell Train be accepted, I've been thinking about adding to this CRT that Data Zahard, Data Eduan and Post-Revolution/Last Station Arc Full Power Baam (True Self Mode with 1st Thorn Ignition) should be scale to Low 6-B+ (obviously, not solid Low 6-B+, I've been thinking about doing something similar as we did to Yu Han Sung, Dorian Frog and other High Rankers, and discuss if it should be with: "likely", "possibly" or "at most" Low 6-B)
 
Enryu_The_Red_Tower said:
When the calc of the Three Rankers stopping the Hell Train be accepted, I've been thinking about adding to this CRT that Data Zahard, Data Eduan and Post-Revolution/Last Station Arc Full Power Baam (True Self Mode with 1st Thorn Ignition) should be scale to Low 6-B+ (obviously, not solid Low 6-B+, I've been thinking about doing something similar as we did to Yu Han Sung, Dorian Frog and other High Rankers, and discuss if it should be with: "likely", "possibly" or "at most" Low 6-B)
Click to expand...
While DGMA evaluated the calc nearly a week ago, I'm still waiting on a second input as recommended by DGMA (I contacted DMUA after half a week of static from Damage; that was two days ago and I've gotten nothing from them so far as well), so I don't know how long it'll be before I can confidently say it's been accepted and thus included in the CRT you're planning.

As for Scaling D.Zahard, D.Eduan, and 1st Thorn Impalement Bam to Low 6-B... From their current AP of X-Hundred Megatons at Mountain Level to the bare minimum of 1 Teraton for Small Country Level, that's an AP raise of 1,000-10,000 times, and it would also imply that Data Zahard, Data Eduan, and 1st Thorn Impalement Bam are comparable to High-Rankers, which is a bold claim. (Especially since, looking at how the Hell Train calc is accepted by DMGA currently, 1st Thorn Ignition + Black March Impalement Bam who should be comparable to 1st Thorn Impalement Bam just barely squeezes into Low 6-C, or less than 200 times what's needed to make it to Low 6-B)

So, as things currently stand- regardless of if it's "Likely" "Possibly" or "At Most", I don't think Data Zahard, Data Eduan, or 1st Thorn Impalement Bam should be Low 6-B in any capacity.
 
@ElajRuengies

I think 1st Thorn Ignition Baam and 1st Thorn Impalement Baam are the same form, since Baam when he ignited the Thorn he automatically impales himself in any way

I mean, I see no problem with them being Low 6-B (I mean, any High Ranker who will scale to Dorian Frog will have the full energy output of the calc while Data Zahard, Data Eduan and Post-Revolution/Last Station Arc full power Baam will scale to 2/3 of the calc due to then being far superior to Black March Mode Baam). Also, Kallavan even claimed that normal High Rankers (who should be the likes of Yu Han Sung, Gado and other) are not able to hurt him even in his weakened state and we know based on in his flashbacks that he faced off several High Rankers, which makes Kallavan's statement have a lot of weight, and also the shockwave of an attack from a full power Baam also managed to push back Yuri
 
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Enryu_The_Red_Tower said:
@ElajRuengies

I think 1st Thorn Ignition Baam and 1st Thorn Impalement Baam are the same form, since Baam when he ignited the Thorn he automatically impales himself in any way
Click to expand...
Ah, that makes sense- just double checked Bam's profile and yeah, what I called "1st Thorn Impalement" (where it sticks out of his stomach) is called 1st Thorn Ignition, and "1st Thorn Ignition" (where it just hovers over his back) is just called 1st Thorn. (Also, "1st Thorn Impalement" is called 1st Thorn Ignition Mode on the ToG Wiki, which is almost the same term this wiki uses)
I mean, I see no problem with them being Low 6-B (I mean, qualquer High Ranker who will scale to Dorian Frog will have the full energy output of the calc while Data Zahard, Data Eduan and Post-Revolution/Last Station Arc full power Baam will scale to 2/3 of the calc due to then being far superior to Black March Mode Baam). Also, Kallavan even claimed that normal High Rankers (who should be the likes of Yu Han Sung, Gado and other) are not able to hurt him even in his weakened state and we know based on in his flashbacks that he faced off several High Rankers, which makes Kallavan's statement have a lot of weight, and also the shockwave of an attack from a full power Baam also managed to push back Yuri
Click to expand...
The thing with that, is that the Hell Train calc wasn't done to determine the AP of Dorian Frog since he's already in the Teratons by being comparable to Yuri (while the current accepted number for the Hell Train feat is 2.38 Gigatons), but rather the High End AP of a standard Ranker (which, divided by 3, makes a strong normal Ranker 7-A+, and someone who scales to 2/3rds the feat is High 7-A.)

(Due to how True Self Mode Bam w/ the Black March and the 1st Thorn could nullify the two attacks from the Vice Altar Director and Charlie, he scales to 2/3rds the feat, and D. Jahad and D. Eduan should be in the same ballpark, meaning they're High 7-A. Since Black March-Mode TSM Bam and the 1st Thorn blatantly overpowered stronger attacks from the V.A.D. and Charlie, as well as threatening to one-shot them, Black March-Mode + 1st Thorn TSM Bam can just manage to squeeze into 6-C, assuming he scales to 6/3rds the feat. Additionally, since Black March-Mode + 1st Thorn Bam is likely comparable to 1st Thorn Ignition Bam, D. Zahard with Leviathan makes it to 6-C by scaling. D. Eduan also makes it to 6-C with his strongest techniques like Dawn of Lightning, given how he should be capable of giving D. Zahard + Leviathan significant support. Although unlike Bam's Stardust or D. Eduan's strongest moves, D. Zahard can hypothetically spam Leviathan numerous times while 1 Stardust takes up most of Bam's power and D. Eduan called it quits after a couple of attacks.)

Anywho, being comparable to the group of Rankers that stopped the Hell Train does not put D. Zahard, D. Eduan, and FTI-Bam on the same level as Dorian Frog, as when he stopped the Hell Train, he was not using his full power and it immediately ground to a halt, while 3 Rankers had to work together to stop it and it still required much more buffer space. (Which makes sense, as a High Ranker should be far superior to 3 Rankers working together) (For example; Post-Clone White's attack near the end of S2 CH317 which dwarfed the Last Station annihilated 2 Normal Rankers while Dorian Frog just dodged) Stopping the Hell Train does not scale to High Rankers, just small groups of standard Rankers or debatably an Advanced Ranker.

Also, D. Eduan and D. Zahard shouldn't scale to the Bam who scratched Kallavan, since the Bam that scratched Kallavan was way stronger than the Bam that stalemated D. Zahard;
  • Bam's Stardust that countered Leviathan was done while he was in True Self Mode and had Ignited/Seppuku'd himself with the 1st Thorn Fragment.
  • Bam's Stardust that scratched Kallavan was done while he was in True Self Mode, Ignited/Seppuku'd himself with the 1st Thorn Fragment, and the Black March, and had activated the 2nd Thorn Fragment as well.
D. Eduan = D. Zahard = TSM Bam + 1st Thorn < D. Eduan Strongest Techniques = D. Zahard + Leviathan = 1st Thorn Ignition TSM Bam =(roughly)= Black March Ignition + 1st Thorn TSM Bam << 1st Thorn Ignition + Black March Ignition + 2nd Thorn TSM Bam

And finally, while End of Last Station Bam did manage to scratch Kallavan, I would only put Bam's Transcendent Skills as [Likely/Possibly/At Most] Low 6-B, not himself. (Even with all the power ups, I can't see End of Last Station Bam being any higher than High 6-C, and even then that's a stretch)

In the words of SIU's blogpost for S3 CH44-
White and Kallavan’s fight continues.
We’ll see White’s sword take multiple forms.
Right now, this form is specialized in making precise strikes with an extremely quick blade,
and while it did make hits and hurt Kallavan at first,
but after Kallavan started using the Essence of Void in full swing,
it doesn’t work any more.
Kallavan outclassed White as of now it seems, hehe.

Looking back,
it shows you the extent of Ha Jinsung, who pierced the belly of Kallavan in full power,
but also Bam who dealt some damage to Kallavan.
Bam’s offensive power is already quite something, but it also works on all tiers of enemies.
Of course, you can’t say White is weaker than Bam,
but Bam’s one attack seems more powerful as it damaged Kallavan.
Click to expand...
And even then, Bam wounding Kallavan could also just be a similar case to Bam being able to scratch Urek Mazino, where durability logic is just thrown out the window.
 
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@ElajRuengies

Regarding the High Rankers like Dorian Frog and characters comparable to him, I was talking about just replacing the "At least Mountain level" to the total value of the Hell Train calc depending on which End is chosen, and continuing with the "likely" Small Country level + "in their profile because they are able to contend with the likes of Post-Clone White and Yuri despite of being weaker than them. To summarize what I am talking about is that characters who scale to Dorian should be like this: [insert the total value of the Hell Train calc], likely Small Country level+. This is just an example of what I’m proposing, when the CRT I’m talking about happens, I’ll give more details

Well, about your comment that Data Eduan, Data Zahard and Post-Revolution Baam's peak shouldn't scale to a full power Last Station Arc Baam, I think it makes sense, but I don't remember Baam stacking the Black March Mode together, I mean, his horns went from black to blue and red, and he no longer had that black energy in his belly, just the 1st Thorn

But, I still think the three should scales to the 2/3 of the Hell Train calc due to them being superior to Black March Mode Baam

So I think that just continuing with "likely far higher" to End of Last Station Arc Baam is fine
 
Enryu_The_Red_Tower said:
@ElajRuengies

Regarding the High Rankers like Dorian Frog and characters comparable to him, I was talking about just replacing the "At least Mountain level" to the total value of the Hell Train calc depending on which End is chosen, and continuing with the "likely" Small Country level + "in their profile because they are able to contend with the likes of Post-Clone White and Yuri despite of being weaker than them. To summarize what I am talking about is that characters who scale to Dorian should be like this: [insert the total value of the Hell Train calc], likely Small Country level+. This is just an example of what I’m proposing, when the CRT I’m talking about happens, I’ll give more details
Click to expand...
Oooooh- yeah, that makes sense.
Drinking Game Idea: Take a shot every time the phrase "makes sense" is used.
Enryu_The_Red_Tower said:
Well, about your comment that Data Eduan, Data Zahard and Post-Revolution Baam's peak shouldn't scale to a full power Last Station Arc Baam, I think it makes sense, but I don't remember Baam stacking the Black March Mode together, I mean, his horns went from black to blue and red, and he no longer had that black energy in his belly, just the 1st Thorn
Click to expand...
Well... huh. I assume that they were stacked together since when Bam stabs himself with the Black March in S2 CH332, that line inside him is surrounded with a black aura, and when he stabs himself with the 1st Thorn Fragment in CH334, the line inside him is surrounded with a mix of both red and black. Although that's true that it isn't explicit evidence now think about it.
Enryu_The_Red_Tower said:
But, I still think the three should scales to the 2/3 of the Hell Train calc due to them being superior to Black March Mode Baam
So I think that just continuing with "likely far higher" to End of Last Station Arc Baam is fine
Click to expand...
I guess we'll just have to wait to see the accepted result to see how that pans out. In the meantime that sounds good.
MiguelABarrios said:
I ******* KNEW IT
off site i always claimed Rankers(normal ones) to be Mountain+ level lmao
altough only by visuals of one attack which was no sold by Hell Joe, I mean Ice Castle btw.
Click to expand...
Oh, so I wasn't the only one who noticed that! Although if one of the two High Ends are accepted then Rankers will cap out at Large Mountain Level interestingly
 
By the way, if there's one thing that pisses me off a bit, it's the people who argue about ToG off this site is that they always try lowball Baam I don't know why, for example, they saying that Season 3 Base Baam isn't Ranker level (He already matched and defeated normal Rankers), that Baam is a glass cannon (which is wrong, since Season 2 True Self Mode Baam is a stone wall due to surving attacks from a serious Data Zahard and not ended up seriously injured and Blue Thyssa Transformation Baam can block 3 eplosions from a suppressed EoBF Kallavan) and that Baam ins't at the High Ranker level (I mean, he was already this strong with the Red Thryssa Transformation alone, which is one of his weakest forms currently)
 
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That's.... hm.
I could understand that first point for end of S2 Bam, since even though his max AP could one-shot Rankers, he was still lacking in stamina using 1st Thorn Ignition Mode, with Charlie stating that Bam couldn't keep it up forever so he could hypothetically just wait it out, if it weren't for being on a time crunch due to the hostage situation. Although this absolutely does not hold for S3 Bam, so I have no idea where that comes from.

On the second point, S3 Bam was a bit of a glass cannon when compared to what the stat-spread of someone with his AP should be if it was perfectly balanced, until the Deus Ex Machina Shield appeared at least. As being in proximity of [Black and White Wings] shouldn't be a durability feat, since that move was a kind of Flare Wave Explosion, which is a technique specifically designed to not harm the user. Source. (If it's listed as a durability feat somewhere, it needs to be corrected)
Floral Butterfly Piercing Technique is a very destructive "Damage Technique" (타격술 (打擊術), tahgyeoksool). Once the user's body is in contact with the opponent's, they forcefully "reverse-flow control" the flow of Shinsu in the opponent's body by accelerating the flow of Shinsu inside the user's own body. Then, the user "flow controls" the returning shock inside their own body to protect them from the backlash. It's considered to be a dangerous technique that destroys everything in contact within the user's body while leaving them completely unharmed.
Click to expand...
Still, S3 Bam was only ever a glass cannon when compared to his own AP. And even then, having Small Country Level+ durability with Country Level AP isn't that big of a difference. And now Bam's back to being balanced with the Blue Bull$#!+. (Alliteration!)

And finally on S3 Bam not being High-Ranker level, the same logic of End of S2 Bam not being Ranker level applies. He's got more than high enough AP to be High Ranker level, but his stamina is lacking in comparison. Unlike End of S2 Bam though, current S3 Bam is morally myopic Mature enough to burn the souls of countless martyrs in order to recharge his batteries, and since he's got a literal Billion souls to draw from, that stamina problem is basically gone. In other words, current S3 Bam when not in his base form is definitely High Ranker level.
 
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Honestly, since Red Thryssa Transformation first appeared, I expected Blue Thryssa Transformation to appear and it was a predictable thing, but I think the fact that it appeared against Kallavan in its first appearance instead of having him trained earlier to get it, and then later use against Kallavan as a trump card is what I haven't I like

To be honest, regardless of any version of Baam (Season 1, 2 and 3), although I know that Baam's durability is inferior his AP, I never thought it was a significant difference or big enough to have a separate tier of his Attack Potency or be called as a Glass Cannon

I don't think using the Piercing Technique to call Season 3 Baam as a Glass Cannon is a good argument, since the Piercing Techniques are accepted as Limited Dura Negation powers in this site.

Lol, true, but I think in the future Base Baam will be at the High Ranker level anyway
 
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I realized something funny, 1% and 2% of the power of Enryu and the Floor Guardians is comparable (or even superior, since the feat that they scale [2.63 Petatons] is something they can do casually) to the strength of almost everyone in the Top 300 High Rankers (with the exception of the 10 Family Heads)
 
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