Tower of God General Discussion Thread Part 5

[Enryu_The_Red_Tower]

I mean, if that had been when he was undergoing Revolution (before his fight with Data Zahard) and the Blue Thryssa saying that the reason for Baam to talk to them is to drew more power from them to defeat a strong foe, there's no need for that conversation with Baam with his powers about not needing someone to tell who he is and that Baam himself decides that, not anyone else, and the fact that after the conversation with his Sworn Enemy about his beliefs and identity, he is immediately shown with an improved version of Shinwonryu Orb, and we also have that True Self Mode drama appearing as if it were the first time that Baam uses this, since as we see another conversation between Baam and his powers after finally finding his true self after so long, with Baam drawing that white line that represents himself and right after that, Baam is showing us his new transformation

I mean, I only agree with Baam's 2.4 Megatons feat if in the CRT you're doing you have a good argument to get rid of the Low 7-B (2.7 Megatons) and Low 7-B+ (5.4 Megatons), and let the 7-B+ (66.9 Megatons) and 7-A (133.8 Megatons) in the profiles who scale to Data Maschenny, which in this case would be just Post-Revolution/Last Station Arc Baam and God of Guardians (I will make a profile for him after the CRT)

 

[ElajRuengies]

I mean, if that had been when he was undergoing Revolution (before his fight with Data Zahard) and the Blue Thryssa saying that the reason for Baam to talk to them is to drew more power from them to defeat a strong foe, there's no need for that conversation with Baam with his powers about not needing someone to tell who he is and that Baam himself decides that, not anyone else, and the fact that after the conversation with his Sworn Enemy about his beliefs and identity, he is immediately shown with an improved version of Shinwonryu Orb, and we also have that True Self Mode drama appearing as if it were the first time that Baam uses this transformation, since as we see another conversation between Baam and his powers after finally finding his true self after so long, with Baam drawing that white line that represents himself and right after that, Baam is showing us his new transformation

Fair enough, although Bam's lucky that Data Zahard's a good enough sport to let him have a whole existential crisis and acceptance monologue inside of himself, just after starting a fight.

I mean, I only agree with Baam's 2.4 Megatons feat if in the CRT you're doing you have a good argument to get rid of the Low 7-B (2.7 Megatons) and Low 7-B+ (5.4 Megatons), and let the 7-B+ (66.9 Megatons) and 7-A (133.8 Megatons) in the profiles who scale to Data Maschenny, which in this case would be just Post-Revolution/Last Station Arc Baam and God of Guardians (I will make a profile for him after the CRT)

I don't see why those have to be discounted thought? The [At Least] sets the (2.7 Megatons) as a lower bound and it's stated to be [Likely] much higher so I don't see any incongruities with leaving it like it is.

With that being said, there is a feat I will be getting rid of in the CRT, and that's Bam creating a Magnitude 7 Earthquake, as while a dramatically shaking a city would require that feat, Bam does not shake the entire Name Hunt Station with his finishing move, only the two floating island-ships that Kaiser and the hostages were located in, which are only a few hundred meters across using the width of the entrance as a ruler (reference images here). (Not to mention that a significant amount of the larger island is hollowed)

I'm not saying that Kaiser and Bam aren't Large Town level though, I'm just saying that we need a different calc to scale them to. I think Hoaqin blatantly vaporizing a giant hole in S2 CH162 could work given how much energy it takes to turn rock to steam.

 

[Enryu_The_Red_Tower]

@ElajRuengies

Yes, that I will not deny that Data Zahard was holding on to be able to enjoy the fight against Baam, besides, since we seem to reach a consensus, could you add Multiple Personalities to the profiles of White and Baam? I'm sure you can write a better reason than I do in describing this ability in their profiles

Fair enough, also, can you see if there are any changes to the Data Maschenny with Redan AP in the page of References for Commom Feats about creating a storm? I'm sure that Data Maschenny's AP is a little out of date due to the constant changes in relation to this page and at the time of Data Maschenny's CRT, we based on the reference of almost 3 years ago

Yes, I agree with you about Name Hunt Station Baam's calc, I also always thought I was wrong, but I never said anything due to not having knowledge about calcs to do something about it

Also, due to upscaling, Kaiser and Baam would be High 7-C anyway

 

[ElajRuengies]

@ElajRuengies

Yes, that I will not deny that Data Zahard was holding on to be able to enjoy the fight against Baam, besides, since we seem to reach a consensus, could you add Multiple Personalities to the profiles of White and Baam? I'm sure you can write a better reason than I do in describing this ability in their profiles

Done! Although I don't know how to re-order the Powers listed in the [Category] area...

Fair enough, also, can you see if there are any changes to the Data Maschenny with Redan AP in the page of References for Commom Feats about creating a storm? I'm sure that Data Maschenny's AP is a little out of date due to the constant changes in relation to this page and at the time of Data Maschenny's CRT, we based on the reference of almost 3 years ago

Just checked the page, and the AP for Condensation and KE still look the same (5.44151479200599 and 133.886442810720 Megatons to be overly precise)

Yes, I agree with you about Name Hunt Station Baam's calc, I also always thought I was wrong, but I never said anything due to not having knowledge about calcs to do something about it

Fair, although I didn't notice it until I got hung up on 2nd Redan Ran and Arie Inieta's Strongest Attack being twice the AP of Last Station Bam

Also, due to upscaling, Kaiser and Baam would be High 7-C anyway

True, but I'm gonna try to put a number on that

 

[Enryu_The_Red_Tower]

@ElajRuengies

Don't worry, in relation to the [Category] area, I already took care of that

Alright then

I hope you find something remarkable that scale to the High 7-C characters, but I remember attack Hoaqin that vaporized a large chunk of stone and several Regulars being at 8-A on a calc from a few years ago

Yes, good luck with that then, but I also remember SIU stating that Weakened Hoaqin is in a different leagues of his previous foes (only referring to the Regulars he previously faced, clearly excluding Rankers, High Rankers and Urek), a statement which supports High 7-C

 

[ElajRuengies]

@ElajRuengies

Don't worry, in relation to the [Category] area, I already took care of that

Thanks!

Alright then

I hope you find something remarkable that scale to the High 7-C characters, but I remember attack Hoaqin that vaporized a large chunk of stone and several Regulars being at 8-A on a calc from a few years ago

Well I'm guessing that the previous hole calc actually used pulverization and not vaporization, because I got ~304.3 Kilotons for the massive hole, cementing him as a solid High 7-C.
This makes Bam w/ Thorn High 7-C and Kaiser at least High 7-C given that Weakened Hoaqin should be a bit below Kaiser in power.

Doing the Kaiser - Inieta - Ran scale chain, this makes Ran w/ Redan and Inieta High 7-C, and Ran w/ 2nd Redan and Inieta's strongest attack twice that, or ~600 Kilotons, making them High 7-C+. (This also makes Base Ran ~152 Kilotons)

Hoaqin was superior to all of his siblings at except for Vicente who he consistently tied with, making David weaker than him, and Anna was notably not great with swords and uses hax making her much weaker than him, so [Hoaqin + Vicente + David + Anna] is analogous to [Hoaqin + Hoaqin + Somewhat Less Than Hoaqin + Much Less Than Hoaqin], or an estimate of 3 Hoaqins in total.

Thus, Siblings Absorbed Hoaquin should be three times 304.3 Kilotons, or a little over 900 Kilotons, making him and End of Dallar Show Bam solidly High 7-C+ (Or maybe I should call it High 7-C++ to distinguish 900 Kilotons from 600 Kilotons, if that's allowed), and Kaiser is this too at most, giving Kaiser a range of 300 - 900 Kilotons; I'm not assuming that Kaiser is above Inieta in AP because it's unclear if he lost to her because she was the superior combatant, or because Inieta didn't understand the rules like Endorsi.

Yes, good luck with that then, but I also remember SIU stating that Weakened Hoaqin is in a different leagues of his previous foes (only referring to the Regulars he previously faced, clearly excluding Rankers, High Rankers and Urek), a statement which supports High 7-C

I mean technically speaking, Hoaqin's attacks are likely stronger than Urek's Ultra-Low Effort Punch which knocked Viole out for a few days, but Hoaqin is weaker than Urek himself obviously.

Side Note: Ignoring the Law of Diminishing Returns, if Ran swallowed 35 Lightning Pills, he'd have nearly the same AP as an Administrator. (Alternatively; a hypothetical 2nd Redan Maschenny has an AP of 117.2 Teratons, or 19.6% Urek Mazino with shinsoo...)

 

[Enryu_The_Red_Tower]

@ElajRuengies

Oh! This seems pretty consistent with the 7-C+ calc and the fact that Baam with 1st Thorn can one-shot Daniel (who is stronger than Reflejo, who in turn is superior to Workshop Battle Androssi whose AP is 84.1 Kilotons) and matched Weakened Hoaqin whose AP is 304.3 Kilotons

Do you think Starving Hoaqin deserves a Key?

Yes, now I think the scale of Ran with 2nd Redan and Inieta's strongest attack is right now with that (it's kind of ironic that Baam and Kaiser were built to be strongest Regulars of the Name Hunt Station at that time but it ended up being unintentional and through from the powerscaling of the site, SIU made Ran and Inieta the strongest of the that Station, lol)

On second thought, I think only Base Ran is the only character of the verse who scales to 152 Kilotons besides Base Baam Name Hunt Arc

To be honest, if the Low 7-B calc of Floor of Death Arc Baam is accepted, I think Post-Siblings Hoaqin should scale to this, since he can stalemate Last Station Arc Androssi who is stronger than her Hidden Floor Arc self, who is comparable to HF Baam and Data Yu Han Sung, who are superior to Death of Floor Arc Baam, unless somehow Hoaqin must have gotten stronger during that time, which I don't think, since the souls he permanently devoured even the time when he fought Androssi was Prince and possibly Akraptor and that could scale to Power of Souls Form Baam.

I think in fact, I think Kaiser defeated Inieta with superior combat skill, her hax and the Name Hunt rules like she did with Androssi

I don’t think SIU thought much about Redan’s multipliers, lol

 

[ElajRuengies]

@ElajRuengies

Oh! This seems pretty consistent with the 7-C+ calc and the fact that Baam with 1st Thorn can one-shot Daniel (who is stronger than Reflejo, who in turn is superior to Workshop Battle Androssi whose AP is 84.1 Kilotons) and matched Weakened Hoaqin whose AP is 304.3 Kilotons

Do you think Starving Hoaqin deserves a Key?

I'd say he's like Spirit Room White in that they don't show up for long enough to have a key.

Yes, now I think the scale of Ran with 2nd Redan and Inieta's strongest attack is right now with that (it's kind of ironic that Baam and Kaiser were built to be strongest Regulars of the Name Hunt Station at that time but it ended up being unintentional and through from the powerscaling of the site, SIU made Ran and Inieta the strongest of the that Station, lol)

On second thought, I think only Base Ran is the only character of the verse who scales to 152 Kilotons

Indeed lol

I mean, given how Name Hunt Rak was able to make Inieta put in some effort and Novick took down J.M. (who should be comparable to his brother Hesse who took attacks from Base Ran due to Earth vs. Lightning type advantage, but got stomped by Redan Ran), I think "pretty strong" regulars like them and Name Hunt Khun and Hatz scale to 152 Kilotons.

Although in the case of Hatz, while he manage to go against Shilial- who is the strongest D-Rank Regular w/ her sister making her stronger than Inieta, she was using a weapon she said she had no talent in. Still, Donghae did manage to impress her, although then again Shilial said that she'd kill him the next time they fought if he boasted about his weapon, and she had a weird tentacle monster behind her implying she's an Anima. So Hatz's tier is kinda in the air.

To be honest, if the Low 7-B calc of Floor of Death Arc Baam is accepted, I think Post-Siblings Hoaqin should scale to this, since he can stalemate Last Station Arc Androssi who is stronger than her Hidden Floor Arc self, who is comparable to HF Baam and Data Yu Han Sung, who are superior to Death of Floor Arc Baam, unless somehow Hoaqin must have gotten stronger during that time, which I don't think, since the souls he permanently devoured even the time when he fought Androssi was Prince and possibly Akraptor and that could scale to Power of Souls Form Baam.

... Huh.
Yeah, Siblings-Absorbed Hoaqin might end up as High 7-C+, Possibly/Likely Low 7-B after the Hidden Floor, but I don't see Dallar Show Siblings-Absorbed Hoaqin being Low 7-B.
Keep in mind that during the Hidden Floor, Siblings Absorbed Hoaqin defeated his Sworn Enemy/Enemies which was a ton of swords, and the Hidden Floor does have floating weapons that are also living creatures (such as the giant monster needles). Given that his Sworn Enemy/Enemies should have been comparable to himself, the jump from 900 Kilotons to 2.4 Megatons (a 2 and 2/3rds increase) can be explained if he received souls from his Sworn Enemy. (Although admittedly that's a big if)

I think in fact, I think Kaiser defeated Inieta with superior combat skill, her hax and the Name Hunt rules like she did with Androssi

In that case Kaiser scales to 600-ish Kilotons, making her High 7-C+, along with Name Hunt Endorsi. (This also means that- backtracking to the Low 7-B thing, Endorsi unlocking her Shinsoo Quality at least quadrupled her AP which is... somewhat plausible given how it was framed actually)

Side Note: Wow the CRT is gonna be large

I don’t think SIU thought much about Redan’s multipliers, lol

SIU must have not thought about 13 Month Ignition multipliers either, since igniting 2 Months brings Yuri from 5.94 Teratons to 29.3 Teratons, which is a ~4.93 increase in power. Meaning igniting all 12 Months would be a sqrt(4.93)^12 or a 4.93^6 or a 14,404.13 multiplier. This would bring someone like Yuri from 5.94 Teratons to 85.56 Petatons... (Which is slightly less than Ran with 40 Lightning Pills)

More practically speaking, this makes Green April Ignition Yuri (5.94 * sqrt(4.93)) 13.2 Teratons (Meaning she's still over 4 times weaker than EoB Kallavan...), or Maschenny w/ Yellow May Ignition (29.3 * sqrt(4.93)) 65.1 Teratons.

(Although given how the Months range from B to S Rank, the multipliers are likely slightly different for each Month too so there likely isn't a consistent multiplier meaning this train of thought can probably be ignored)

 

[Enryu_The_Red_Tower]

@ElajRuengies

I think it's fair to Novick, Aguero and Rak, all of them at the Name Hunt Station Arc having the AP of 152 Kilotons. I think Shilial was toying with Hatsu and was only attentive and surprised at him after he used the power of his non-still ignited Donghae and even then she implies that if she gets serious, Hatsu is a no match for her even with the ignition, but it is complicated, as it is a little difficult to take characters like Princesses Zahard (at least most of them) seriously when it comes to declarations about themselves because of their pride and superiority complex. Name Hunt Hatsu is indeed being a difficult character to scale

I mean, you're basing yourself on what happened to Baam and his sworn enemy, I don't think is something usable, since what happens with Baam most of the time isn't normal and nor scalable for other people of the Tower and even Data Eduan, who is several tens of thousands of years in the Hidden Floor, said that the event that happened to Baam and his sworn enemy is something he had never seen before. But as I said, the only thing that would justify a power boost to Post-Siblings Hoaqin from High 7-C+ to Low 7-B would be the devoured souls of Prince and possibly Akraptor. And if we take this seriously, so I propose Post-Sibling Hoaqin having his AP of it something like: At least High 7-C+, Low 7-B after consuming enough souls

I mean, since we scale Transformed Hell Joe to the Top 300 High Rankers with no direct statement and only indirect implications, I think it's fair Kaiser scale to Ran with 2nd Redan and Inieta's strongest attack depending on the argument you have to support this

I don't think we should take these multipliers too seriously, since take for example, Season 2 True Self Mode is power-up that not even a boost of 2x, while Season 3 True Self Mode powered-up Baam from 7-A+ to Low 6-B+, don't take it too seriously

Also, I found an interesting feat for Hell Train City Arc Baam:

Tower of God - [Season 2] Ep. 154

What do you desire? Money and wealth? Honor and pride? Authority and power? Revenge? Or something that transcends them all? Whatever you desire—it's here.

www.webtoons.com

 

[ElajRuengies]

@ElajRuengies

I think it's fair to Novick, Aguero and Rak, all of them at the Name Hunt Station Arc having the AP of 152 Kilotons. I think Shilial was toying with Hatsu and was only attentive and surprised at him after he used the power of his non-still ignited Donghae and even then she implies that if she gets serious, Hatsu is a no match for her even with the ignition, but it is complicated, as it is a little difficult to take characters like Princesses Zahard (at least most of them) seriously when it comes to declarations about themselves because of their pride and superiority complex. Name Hunt Hatsu is indeed being a difficult character to scale

That about sums it up perfectly; although Khun managing to block the toxic waste attack from Yukan (and noting it was easy), despite it being said that Yukan was one of the strongest bosses, makes Khun's Lighthouse Barrier around 300 Kilotons durability-wise. (Yukan should be far superior to Hesse although weaker than Inieta)

I mean, you're basing yourself on what happened to Baam and his sworn enemy, I don't think is something usable, since what happens with Baam most of the time isn't normal and nor scalable for other people of the Tower and even Data Eduan, who is several tens of thousands of years in the Hidden Floor, said that the event that happened to Baam and his sworn enemy is something he had never seen before. But as I said, the only thing that would justify a power boost to Post-Siblings Hoaqin from High 7-C+ to Low 7-B would be the devoured souls of Prince and possibly Akraptor. And if we take this seriously, so I propose Post-Sibling Hoaqin having his AP of it something like: At least High 7-C+, Low 7-B after consuming enough souls

Yeah, that was admittedly a stretch. [At least High 7-C+, Low 7-B after consuming enough souls] sounds good.

I mean, since we scale Transformed Hell Joe to the Top 300 High Rankers with no direct statement and only indirect implications, I think it's fair Kaiser scale to Ran with 2nd Redan and Inieta's strongest attack depending on the argument you have to support this

Well, Kallavan's wiki-page does state that he's the strongest enemy Bam has faced (ignoring Zahard obviously; I'm assuming Urek just didn't count as an enemy), putting him above Transformed Hell Joe who was stunned by the magnitude of Urek's 10% Punch, although that trivia line doesn't have any citations so you may be right about there being no direct statement. I personally don't find a problem with it though since it's been pretty consistent so far.

Yeah that's what I thought too.

I don't think we should take these multipliers too seriously, since take for example, Season 2 True Self Mode is power-up that not even a boost of 2x, while Season 3 True Self Mode powered-up Baam from 7-A+ to Low 6-B+, don't take it too seriously

Well depending how the Hell Train calc ends up boosting Ranker's (and thus, D. Zahard and D. Eduan) AP, that could end up changing... whenever it gets evaluated anyway. (If there isn't any new input by the start of Spring Break I'm going to just make the CRT and @ calc people there)

Waiting aside, I agree what you said about the multipliers, but it's still fun to throw math at them and see what happens.

Also, I found an interesting feat for Hell Train City Arc Baam:

Tower of God - [Season 2] Ep. 154

What do you desire? Money and wealth? Honor and pride? Authority and power? Revenge? Or something that transcends them all? Whatever you desire—it's here.

www.webtoons.com

It looks like he vaporizes a large cone of dirt, although the effected area goes off panel so I'm not sure it can be calc'd. Neat find though!

 

[Enryu_The_Red_Tower]

@ElajRuengies

I mean, Kallavan has been portrayed as the most antagonist strong that Baam found during the End of Season 2, regardless of a direct or indirect statement comparing him to Hell Joe

I mean, True Self Mode Baam was completely outclassed in terms of power compared to the serious Data Zahard and he only tied with him after igniting the 1st Thorn, in addition to I not think that True Self Mode Baam alone should scale to Hell Train calc (only when he stacked the TSM with 1stTI should scale to the calc), he should just scale far above the calc of Data Maschenny with Redan

 

[ElajRuengies]

@ElajRuengies

I mean, Kallavan has been portrayed as the most antagonist strong that Baam found during the End of Season 2, regardless of a direct or indirect statement comparing him to Hell Joe

Well, yeah. There's not much I have say on that other than I agree

I mean, True Self Mode Baam was completely outclassed in terms of power compared to the serious Data Zahard and he only tied with him after igniting the 1st Thorn, in addition to I not think that True Self Mode Baam alone should scale to Hell Train calc (only when he stacked the TSM with 1stTI should scale to the calc), he should just scale far above the calc of Data Maschenny with Redan

While it's true that TSM Bam getting overwhelmed by Data Zahard after he said that he'd "Really have to get serious" and pulled out Coelacanth, after Bam went into Orb Defense Mode and got the Black Wings that became standard for True Self Mode, he managed to tank/absorb Zahard's Cosmos while doing his destiny speech, and later stated this before doing the stab thing; (S2 CH303)

I have to end this fight quickly somehow... At least now I can finally face him head-on, but I'm still up against an opponent with a massive difference in skill with me, and fighting under time constraints isn't easy.

While TSM Bam w/ Orb Defense Mode did admit he was outclassed by serious Data Zahard, it was in terms of Skill, not Power.

Not to mention that TSM Bam w/ the Black March (not Black March Mode, just igniting the weapon) allowed him to completely counter two attacks from the Vice Altar Director and Charlie. When he actually stabbed himself and entered Black March Mode (which should be equal to/weaker than TSM+ FTI Bam), he became capable of one-shotting the VAD and Charlie.

The way I see it-
Initial True Self Mode = Casual Data Zahard w/ Lecalicus >> Redan Maschenny
True Self Mode w/ Wings (Which became the standard TSM) =/< Serious Data Zahard w/ Coelacanth = Comparable to 1/3rd the Hell Train Calc
True Self Mode w/ Black March = Comparable to 2/3rds the Hell Train Calc
FTI + TSM Bam = Data Zahard w/ Leviathan >/= Black March Mode >> Vastly superior to 2/3rds the Hell Train Calc

 

[Enryu_The_Red_Tower]

I mean, Baam was only on the defensive all the time at that time, and it seems TSM Baam may very well be the Stone Wall due to taking attacks from a serious Data Zahard without being seriously injured and I don't think that escalates for his AP (ironic, Baam being a Stone Wall instead of a Glass Cannon, lol), plus he did no really noticeable damage to a serious Data Zahard even in this Mode until he ignited the 1st Thorn, since in terms of power before ignition, TSM Baam was unable to do anything about a serious DT and only survived because of his durability

Honestly, I think TSM Baam's AP should stay the same and I don't think the Blue Oar Wings give a boost of power, they just gave better mobility like Baam said, the only thing I agree to change is his durability due to what I mentioned in the first paragraph above, moreover I don't think there is much change in the Data Zahard's AP in relation to the three levels of Lecalicus and from what I remember, he only uses Lecalicus when he recognizes an opponent worthy of an exciting fight that he is at risk of life (besides, I also remember that he never used it in the fight against Data Eduan, although the latter is said to be the only person there who can fight against a serious DT in the Hidden Floor), so I remember well, Data Zahard was still matching TSM Baam with FTI with Coelacanth anyway

 

[Enryu_The_Red_Tower]

Furthermore, I do not agree with TSM Baam with BMI being comparable to 2/3 of the Hell Train calc, he in this form proved to be only superior to Charlie and Vice Altar Director individually, just in Black March Mode he was capable of overpowering a combined attack of them, so much so that Black March forced him to stab himself to use this Mode, which implies that she believed that Baam in his previous form would not be able to counter their combined might

 

[Enryu_The_Red_Tower]

Looking closely at the fight between Baam and Data Zahard, I realized that TSM Baam could somewhat block the several baangs that a serious Data Zahard throw at him with Orb Defense Mode, and considering that shinsoo can be used both offensively and defensively in the same ways as powers like Reiatsu and A. T. Filds from Bleach and Evangelion work, I think TSM Baam should scale to at least 1/3 of the Hell Train calc

 

[ElajRuengies]

@Enryu_The_Red_Tower
I knew you'd come around!
(Randomly stopped answering yesterday bc I had school stuff to do then and now; will answer back when I have the time)

 

[ElajRuengies]

@Enryu_The_Red_Tower

Furthermore, I do not agree with TSM Baam with BMI being comparable to 2/3 of the Hell Train calc, he in this form proved to be only superior to Charlie and Vice Altar Director individually, just in Black March Mode he was capable of overpowering a combined attack of them, so much so that Black March forced him to stab himself to use this Mode, which implies that she believed that Baam in his previous form would not be able to counter their combined might

While I agree with that first part, nowhere does it say that Black March forced Bam to stab himself with her? He did that entirely of his own volition, and the Black March was extremely surprised by this.
From S2 CH331:

Bam: I have to make this power last somehow...! But sticking the thorn in my body like before will use up too much power too quickly...
Wait a minute... If I could seize the power of a thorn that ignited because of my attributes... then maybe... I could take the power of the ignited Black March for myself too...
Black March: What's on your mind this time, kid?

From S2 CH332:

Bam: Let's do this...!!
Black March: ?! What!? Hey!! What are you doing?! HEY-!!

Anyway, so I can see TSM + BMI is still being 1/3rd the Hell Train calc, but what should Black March Mode be? It was able to blow through the two Ranker attacks; who were explicitly trying to kill them-

VAD: They leave us no choice!! Charlie!! Kill them all if you have to!!

- and it still had enough power to One-Shot both of them at once.

VAD: Jeez, that thing is pretty damn scary...
Charlie: One hit from that and we're done for!

It has to be higher than 2/3rds the Hell Train calc, at least.

-moreover I don't think there is much change in the Data Zahard's AP in relation to the three levels of Lecalicus and from what I remember, he only uses Lecalicus when he recognizes an opponent worthy of an exciting fight that he is at risk of life (besides, I also remember that he never used it in the fight against Data Eduan, although the latter is said to be the only person there who can fight against a serious DT in the Hidden Floor), so I remember well, Data Zahard was still matching TSM Baam with FTI with Coelacanth anyway

While I can agree with FTI TSM Bam being on par with D. Zahard w/ Coelacanth, I disagree that there is not much change in AP between the three forms.

The attack from first form Legalicus was completely eaten by TSM Bam with little to no damage.

Coelacanth's shockwaves severely damaged TSM Bam despite him using Orb Scattering, and when Data Zahard used Coelacanth for one attack against FTI TSM Bam, he took the brunt of the entire beam with a nameless move, although he was still pushed back.

Leviathan matched FTI TSM Bam's Transcendent Skill and resulted in a double knock out, and the fact that Data Zahard switched to Leviathan implies that Coelacanth would not have been strong enough.

There's definitely a notable increase in AP between Legalicus, Coelacanth, and Leviathan. Saying that there isn't much difference between Coelacanth and Leviathan is like saying that there isn't much difference between normal attacks and attacks that have names given what they scale to. And while it's true that Data Zahard did not pull out Legalicus while fighting against Data Eduan, Data Eduan should be strong enough to give Data Zahard with Leviathan support with his strongest techniques like Dawn of Lightning, given how they went against Pseudo Zahard / Data Real Zahard / Whatever you call him.

TSM FTI Bam = Data Zahard w/ Coelacanth (aka "Really Serious" Jahad) = Data Eduan

Bam's Stardust = Data Zahard w/ Leviathan = Data Eduan's strongest techniques

And speaking of scaling, a 2nd input finally came yesterday from Kieran and the Mid-Range of 2.38645 Gigatons; or High 7-A+ was agreed on. This makes a standard Ranker's AP 795.48 Megatons, or 7-A+.
@ImNot4nUser kudos for getting that right.

Also, I ran the numbers precisely for Spirit Room White and got an AP of 2.09 Teratons, or Low 6-B. As he had the souls of the two High Rankers De Jah and De Sah (along with a bunch of other less powerful folk), this puts the minimum AP of a High Ranker at roughly 1 Teraton given that White had 2 High Ranker souls and did it semi-casually. (While FoD Inhabitants who used to be Rankers/High Rankers are weaker due to no Guardian meaning no fancy Ranker contracts which are one of the major separators between Rankers and Regulars, they shouldn't be that much weaker.) It also works as an AP for High Rankers who are weaker than Yuri/Karaka, like Dorian Frog, Canzon, or maybe Gado. (Gado is considered a challenge to Base Paul, whom Karaka managed to pin in a World of Darkness, so Gado is sort of comparable to Karaka?)

In others, we still don't have a 6-C feat...

 

[Enryu_The_Red_Tower]

@ElajRuengies

Oh sorry, that internal dialogue between the two was confusing for me

TSM with BMI is when Baam's horns are blue and red while he is using the BM

Black March Mode is when Baam stab himself with the BM and his horns turns black, the BM stucked in his belly and he creates a massive black energy needle weapon

I mean, the photos that differentiate these Modes are in the profile, I even edited and cut some photos to be more explicit to show the difference between these Forms

And yes, I also believe that BMM Baam should be above 2/3rds of the Hell Train calc, I was saying that before he stabbed himself with BM, aka TSM with BMI, he proved to be only superior to the Rankers individually

About the first form Lecalicus, at that point DT was still playing around with Baam, as after seing his giant Blue Oar and true capacity, he started to get serious

Yes, I know that there is a change of AP from Data Zahard, I am just wanting to say that it is not notable enough to do a separate tier, besides saying even without even using Lecalicus, Data Zahard was still fighting evenly against Data Eduan, and I very much doubt that they were holding on to that point, they are both several years with each other and trained together up to both ended their respetive Revolutions, they must know very well what each one is capable of

Also, can we talk right here about which characters scale 1/3, 2/3 and total value of the Hell Train calc?

Yes, I think this calc that put some High Rankers somewhat above 1 Teratons should be useful, but the problem is who we are going to scale this on, because practically the only one I see climbing this is potentially Canzon as far as I can imagine , because the others that you mentioned can compete with Yuri, Karaka and Post-Clone White despite being clearly weaker than them and the difference between somewhat superior to 1 Teraton and 5,972 is close to almost being the required AP to one-shot when compared to the guidelines on how this site handles it

I mean, look on the good side, at least we no longer use Data Maschenny as the basis for scale Rankers and some High Rankers, and as far as we know the differences between these two groups and Data Maschenny is incomparably large, the problem is that unfortunately we had no idea how big this difference in power was

 

[ElajRuengies]

@ElajRuengies

Oh sorry, that internal dialogue between the two was confusing for me

TSM with BMI is when Baam's horns are blue and red while he is using the BM

Black March Mode is when Baam stab himself with the BM and his horns turns black, the BM stucked in his belly and he creates a massive black energy needle weapon

I mean, the photos that differentiate these Modes are in the profile, I even edited and cut some photos to be more explicit to show the difference between these Forms

And yes, I also believe that BMM Baam should be above 2/3rds of the Hell Train calc, I was saying that before he stabbed himself with BM, aka TSM with BMI, he proved to be only superior to the Rankers individually

Yeah, and I said I agreed with what you said about Bam scaling to 1/3rd the Hell Train Calc when he stabbed himself with BM / TSM with BMI.
(Side Note: Keeping track of these forms is getting difficult and confusing...)

About the first form Lecalicus, at that point DT was still playing around with Baam, as after seing his giant Blue Oar and true capacity, he started to get serious

I know, and that's why Base Hidden Floor Bam is double Maschenny w/ Redan, right?

Yes, I know that there is a change of AP from Data Zahard, I am just wanting to say that it is not notable enough to do a separate tier, besides saying even without even using Lecalicus, Data Zahard was still fighting evenly against Data Eduan, and I very much doubt that they were holding on to that point, they are both several years with each other and trained together up to both ended their respetive Revolutions, they must know very well what each one is capable of

Also, can we talk right here about which characters scale 1/3, 2/3 and total value of the Hell Train calc?

Ah, right, numbers.
So, the reason why I'm so insistent on Data Zahard and Co getting separate tiers is because (and I probably should have led with this in hindsight)

• 1/3rd the Hell Train calc is 795.48 Megatons / 7-A+, and scales to TSM Bam w/ Black March, and TSM Bam in general. Additionally it scales to Lero Ro, Pedro, Khun Hachling, Yeon Woon, and Charlie.
• 2/3rds the Hell Train calc is 1.59097 Gigatons / High 7-A, and (this is pretty speculative) scales to Kurudan probably (Completely flattened Ren in one hit), Pedro w/ the Purple Dementor (although it's poison hax makes it capable of effecting Yuri if someone smarter were using it), and is a lower bound for Black March Mode Bam, First Thorn Ignition + True Self Mode Bam, Data Zahard, Data Eduan, and Base Jordan given that he's an Advanced Ranker.
• The total calc AP is 2.38645 Gigatons / High 7-A+, and Base Jordan is probably this strong, and his initial Transformations are at least this strong. (His 3rd Transformation was capable of stunning Gado with a headshot, although slowing him down required Canzon's help). Bam's Transcendental Skill is at least this strong given how it should be much stronger than his standard attacks which were on par with Data Zahard w/ Coelacanth whose lower bound is 2/3rds the calc. Data Zahard's Leviathan was capable of matching Bam's Stardust, making it at least this level, and Data Eduan's strongest techniques were meant to be able to give support to Data Zahard w/ Leviathan, making them at least this level.

Typing this out has made me realize that plus signs are not separate Tiers... In other words you were right about Data Zahard w/ Leviathan not getting into a seperate Tier. (Unless Bam's Stardust is 6 times stronger than Charlie, at which point it, DZ w/ Leviathan, and DE's strongest techniques would squeeze into 6-C, but I'm not sure about that)

Yes, I think this calc that put some High Rankers somewhat above 1 Teratons should be useful, but the problem is who we are going to scale this on, because practically the only one I see climbing this is potentially Canzon as far as I can imagine , because the others that you mentioned can compete with Yuri, Karaka and Post-Clone White despite being clearly weaker than them and the difference between somewhat superior to 1 Teraton and 5,972 is close to almost being the required AP to one-shot when compared to the guidelines on how this site handles it

Wait, there's an official AP difference required for one shotting people? Can that be used for scaling because I honestly don't know how to estimate Black March Mode's AP beyond setting up lower bounds. (It plowed through two Rankers serious attacks and could have extensively damaged two Rankers, so 4/3rds? I have no idea)

Moving on from that, I'd say that it works as a lower bound for Gado and Base Paul (who currently have 7-A as their lower bound...) given how Karaka was capable of pinning Base Paul in a World of Darkness without much effort. It also works has an upper bound for Jordan's Aimbot Transformation, which was capable of stunning Gado with a headshot. (Transformations in general are weird in that if the area transformed is small enough, they only make that certain part of the user stronger, so while Gado's legs get tougher except for that one spot the rest of him is still standard High Ranker level ignoring the speed boost.)

But yeah, a lot of the High Ranker profiles are comparable to Yuri, Karaka, and Post Clone White... Still it's probably good to have for future reference given how many High Rankers are showing up...

I mean, look on the good side, at least we no longer use Data Maschenny as the basis for scale Rankers and some High Rankers, and as far as we know the differences between these two groups and Data Maschenny is incomparably large, the problem is that unfortunately we had no idea how big this difference in power was

I always found that hilarious weird how Rankers were right next to Data Maschenny in power when the only Regular to ever beat a Ranker was Adori.
But yeah, as things currently stand, there's a factor of ~1250 between a Ranker and a Bottom 500 High Ranker's AP, which is presumably the zone Advanced Rankers are supposed to fill, but since they were only introduced to the story at the Last Station, they don't have any feats... Assuming Didiano's exponential poop attack can't be calc'd.

 

[Enryu_The_Red_Tower]

@ElajRuengies

I mean, just see the Forms in Baam's profiles and that you will know how to differentiate them, I don't think it is too complicated to distinguish them after memorizing the differences of these Modes

I did not understand your question about "Base Hidden Floor Baam is double Maschenny w/Redan", can you clarify it?

Honestly, I agree with almost everything you said, but what I don't agree with is Kurudan being High 7-A, I think he just above 7-A+ for an unquantifiable amount, we don't have multipliers for one-shot, we just should treats it as an unknown amount superior to 7-A+, I’ll talk more in detail below in my next comment. Regarding Jordan, I think the High 7-A+ is weird for him, considering that Base Paul is comparable to Gado, who kind of fodderized Culden, who is equal to Jordan himself. Because of that, I think only High 7-A is good for him, considering that his headshot attack only somewhat injured Gado while he was off-guard. Also, I agree with High 7-A+ for Baam's Stardust, Data Zahard's Leviathan and Data Eduan's strongest techniques (Besides which techniques are you referring to? Montana Blue and Dawn of Lightning?)

The AP to one-shot difference that I was talking about is only applicable in VS match-ups, but in verse, we don't really have a required AP difference, it just means that you are considerable above the person you one-shot, we cannot assume that you are two or three times above the person you one-shot without any direct information about how strong you have become. Still, I think the characters who are currently "At least 7-A, likely Low 6-B+" need to become "At least High 7-A+, likely Low 6-B+" because of the new calc

In addition, I think we can do a Key for Post-Siblings Hoaqin during the Last Station Arc, as we give several characters the new AP treatment for getting stronger even though they don't train at all (well, in Shounen in general the characters in general get stronger because they need to be stronger because of the plot), so kind of preventing Hoaqin from getting a new Key is kind of unfair considering that we give this treatment to several other characters

 

[ElajRuengies]

@ElajRuengies

I mean, just see the Forms in Baam's profiles and that you will know how to differentiate them, I don't think it is too complicated to distinguish them after memorizing the differences of these Modes

I mean like, I know the different modes/forms (side note: Whoever got rid of the 10+ different keys has my thanks), but the acronyms (Mainly BMI and BMM) can be mixed up

I did not understand your question about "Base Hidden Floor Baam is double Maschenny w/Redan", can you clarify it?

I was wondering if that was still the case. (I assume it is since the logic of just managing to scratch Data Zahard puts him higher than what Maschenny w/ Redan could do)

Honestly, I agree with almost everything you said, but what I don't agree with is Kurudan being High 7-A, I think he just above 7-A+ for an unquantifiable amount, we don't have multipliers for one-shot, we just should treats it as an unknown amount superior to 7-A+, I’ll talk more in detail below in my next comment.

Alright then, so 7-A+, likely higher for Kurudan then

Regarding Jordan, I think the High 7-A+ is weird for him, considering that Base Paul is comparable to Gado, who kind of fodderized Culden, who is equal to Jordan himself. Because of that, I think only High 7-A is good for him, considering that his headshot attack only somewhat injured Gado while he was off-guard.

The thing with Paul foddering Culden, is that the difference between [Low 6-B+ and High 7-A] and [Low 6-B+ and High 7-A+] are both so big (a factor of ~3750 and ~2500 respectively) that it isn't really an argument for Paul being weaker than High 7-A+, since Culden being foddered would make sense even if he was High 7-A+ in base. (Although when Culden got foddered, he wasn't in his base but was using a Level 2 Transformation, which unfortunately meant jack to an AP difference factor of a couple thousand.)

With that being said, before Paul showed up Base Culden was stomping a non-Transformed Ranker and noted that it was a let down since the Ranker was supposed to be an Elder's Attendant. Meanwhile Transformed Jordan was having difficulty with a Transformed Ranker, although he was also trying to capture him alive. The circumstances are honestly a little fuzzy, so playing it safe Base Culden and by extension Base Jordan are High 7-A.

Also, I agree with High 7-A+ for Baam's Stardust, Data Zahard's Leviathan and Data Eduan's strongest techniques (Besides which techniques are you referring to? Montana Blue and Dawn of Lightning?)

Since Black March Mode, which should be somewhat weaker than First Thorn Ignition + True Self Mode, is [at least] High 7-A, would Baam's Stardust, Data Zahard's Leviathan, and Data Eduan's Strongest Techniques (yes I do mean Montana Blue and Dawn of Lightning) be [at least] High 7-A+ or just High 7-A+?

The AP to one-shot difference that I was talking about is only applicable in VS match-ups, but in verse, we don't really have a required AP difference, it just means that you are considerable above the person you one-shot, we cannot assume that you are two or three times above the person you one-shot without any direct information about how strong you have become. Still, I think the characters who are currently "At least 7-A, likely Low 6-B+" need to become "At least High 7-A+, likely Low 6-B+" because of the new calc

Ohhh, well that's a shame. But yeah, fixing that sounds good

In addition, I think we can do a Key for Post-Siblings Hoaqin during the Last Station Arc, as we give several characters the new AP treatment for getting stronger even though they don't train at all (well, in Shounen in general the characters in general get stronger because they need to be stronger because of the plot), so kind of preventing Hoaqin from getting a new Key is kind of unfair considering that we give this treatment to several other characters

Sure, I don't see why not, but will the profile need a new image?

 

[Enryu_The_Red_Tower]

@ElajRuengies

I was the one who get rid of that unnecessary images

As I recall, Baam was using the 1st Thorn when he lightly injured Data Zahard, so he was superior to Data Maschenny with Redan while with the 1st Thorn, while his Base form is at least equal to Base Data Maschenny

Ok then

Yeah, I also agree with Jordan and Culden being High 7-A

I think that Data Zahard,True Self Mode Baam with 1st Thorn Igniton and Data Eduan should be likes this: High 7-A, High 7-A+ with Leviathan/Stardust/Montana Azul and Dawn of Lightning

I don't think it's necessary, the only thing that changes in him besides AP is his clothes

 

[ElajRuengies]

@ElajRuengies

I was the one who get rid of that unnecessary images

As I recall, Baam was using the 1st Thorn when he lightly injured Data Zahard, so he was superior to Data Maschenny with Redan while with the 1st Thorn, while his Base form is at least equal to Base Data Maschenny

Ah, makes sense

Ok then

Yeah, I also agree with Jordan and Culden being High 7-A

Glad to get that out of the way

I think that Data Zahard,True Self Mode Baam with 1st Thorn Igniton and Data Eduan should be likes this: High 7-A, High 7-A+ with Leviathan/Stardust/Montana Azul and Dawn of Lightning

But I thought you said Black March Mode Bam was above 2/3rds the Calc; (from an earlier message)

And yes, I also believe that BMM Baam should be above 2/3rds of the Hell Train calc

-which would make him [At Least] 2/3rds the Calc or [At Least] High 7-A, which then scales to TSM + FTI Bam, Data Zahard, and Data Eduan since Black March Mode should be weaker than TSM + FTI. (And then the lower bound for Leviathan, Stardust, and Montana Azul and Dawn of Lightning would be High 7-A+, making it [At Least] High 7-A+ since it's a lower bound)

It's honestly not that big of a deal since they're still High 7-A and High 7-A+ either way, but semantics can be important

I don't think it's necessary, the only thing that changes in him besides AP is his clothes

Fair enough

 

[ImNot4nUser]

Regarding the Bam scaling to 1/3 or 2/3 doesn't matter, we can always say.
at least "x", likely "y"
assuming x=1/3 and y= 2/3 of the calc as an example

 

[Enryu_The_Red_Tower]

@ElajRuengies

Yeah, I know that Black March Mode Baam is above 2/3rds of the Hell Train calc, I just didn't mention him because it's kind of obvious that he would be High 7-A anyway, and I was just referring to True Self Mode Baam with 1st Thorn Ignition, Data Eduan and Data Zahard in this chain scaling

I also don't care much about "At least" thing, they would be High 7-A and High 7-A+ anyway as you said, its not a big deal

So, how would the AP change since the new calc was accepted:

The "At least 7-A, likely Low 6-B+" characters will became "At least High 7-A+, likely Low 6-B+"

The Rankers, Season 2 True Self Mode Baam, TSM Baam with Black March Ignition and Base Season 3 Baam will became 7-A+

Pedro's Purple Dementor, Black March Mode Baam, Jordan and overall talentless Advanced Rankers will became High 7-A

Data Zahard, Data Eduan and True Self Mode Baam with 1st Thorn Ignition will became High 7-A, High 7-A+ with Leviathan/Stardust/Montana Azul and Dawn of Lightning

What do you think? Is it good enough to be applied?

 

[ElajRuengies]

Regarding the Bam scaling to 1/3 or 2/3 doesn't matter, we can always say.
at least "x", likely "y"
assuming x=1/3 and y= 2/3 of the calc as an example

Don't worry, it just got sorted out I think

@ElajRuengies

Yeah, I know that Black March Mode Baam is above 2/3rds of the Hell Train calc, I just didn't mention him because it's kind of obvious that he would be High 7-A anyway, and I was just referring to True Self Mode Baam with 1st Thorn Ignition, Data Eduan and Data Zahard in this chain scaling

I also don't care much about "At least" thing, they would be High 7-A and High 7-A+ anyway as you said, its not a big deal

So, how would the AP change since the new calc was accepted:

The "At least 7-A, likely Low 6-B+" characters will became "At least High 7-A+, likely Low 6-B+"

The Rankers, Season 2 True Self Mode Baam, TSM Baam with Black March Ignition and Base Season 3 Baam will became 7-A+

Pedro's Purple Dementor, Black March Mode Baam, Jordan and overall talentless Advanced Rankers will became High 7-A

Data Zahard, Data Eduan and True Self Mode Baam with 1st Thorn Ignition will became High 7-A, High 7-A+ with Leviathan/Stardust/Montana Azul and Dawn of Lightning

What do you think? Is it good enough to be applied?

Yeah that looks good! And since the calc's been accepted I think it could be applied right now

Although I'm wondering where S3 Khun's Fire-Fish would be since this power originates from a Ranker, and has allowed Khun to buff people/attacks way, way more than his physical stats or Lighthouse skills would normally allow, like how it reinforced Rak's rocks to the point of delaying Daleet's attacks.

 

[Enryu_The_Red_Tower]

Okay, I'm going to apply this now

Honestly, I don't know, given that apparently the buff of Khun's fire fish can vary depending on which person gets the buff

 

[ElajRuengies]

Okay, I'm going to apply this now

Nice!

Honestly, I don't know, given that apparently the buff of Khun's fire fish can vary depending on which person gets the buff

Well in that case it's hax

Side Note (And this is the last time I'm making this joke I swear); but if Administrators/Enryu can use almost any shinsoo technique via control scaling, then could Enryu / an Administrator consume a Redan to bring their AP to 5.2 Petatons / High 6-A?

 

[Enryu_The_Red_Tower]

Honestly, considering that Shinsoo Quality is something that Enryu and Admnistrators can easily replicate, they may be able to use Redan and reach High 6-A, but again, I highly doubt that SIU thought deeply when he turned Enryu and Administrators into the best shinsoo users and he probably didn’t think about what powers derived from shinsoo he would create in the future at the time when he made blog posts about these two

 

[Enryu_The_Red_Tower]

Also, did you manage to find a calculation member to approve the 2.4 Megatons and 304.3 Kilotons calculations?

 

[ElajRuengies]

Honestly, considering that Shinsoo Quality is something that Enryu and Admnistrators can easily replicate, they may be able to use Redan and reach High 6-A, but again, I highly doubt that SIU thought deeply when he turned Enryu and Administrators into the best shinsoo users and he probably didn’t think about what powers derived from shinsoo he would create in the future at the time when he made blog posts about these two

Well, I mean, Enryu was introduced in story properly (by introduced properly I mean we saw his one glorious eye in a flashback) after both the Redan, and the usage of two Redans were showcased in the story, so SIU still decided to have Enryu be an absolute shinsoo God well after power multipliers derived from shinsoo were a thing.

Also, the Redan/Lightning Pill turned out to be a facet of the Internal Shinsoo Manifestation and Shinsoo Quality concepts introduced and used in the Hidden Floor (like Jahad detonating a Shinwonryu inside himself while wanting answers from Bam and before fighting Eduan), some 200+ chapters after the OG Redan debuted in The Workshop Battle.

Anyway, going through Baam's training arc made me realize that Eduan called the Redan "very simple and effective but dangerous to use, so it's not a good skill to use", meaning it probably wouldn't be used by super geniuses like him, let alone Admins or Enryu.

Also, did you manage to find a calculation member to approve the 2.4 Megatons and 304.3 Kilotons calculations?

Not yet, although I also haven't asked yet so I should probably get to that.

 

[Enryu_The_Red_Tower]

I mean, considering that Enryu a Administrators are the God tiers of the verse and has a reasonable amount of hax, I doubt very much that they would need to use something like Redan to defeat their opponents in a battle of shinsoo, just raw power or hax would suffice for a clean win against almost everyone in the verse except Phanta, these two practically have no opponent so far who can rival them

Also, I'm thinking of creating a profile for Cha, what is your opinion about which should be his tier? 6-B or 6-B+?

 

[ElajRuengies]

I mean, considering that Enryu a Administrators are the God tiers of the verse and has a reasonable amount of hax, I doubt very much that they would need to use something like Redan to defeat their opponents in a battle of shinsoo, just raw power or hax would suffice for a clean win against almost everyone in the verse except Phanta, these two practically have no opponent so far who can rival them

Also, I'm thinking of creating a profile for Cha, what is your opinion about which should be his tier? 6-B or 6-B+?

Oh yeah, I kinda forgot that Administrators can just delete people...

Wait, before going into making new profiles, have the profiles for Lo Po Bia Lefav/Lepavuv and Akyrung/Ghost been added yet? I see them in the Tower of God category but not on the verse page weirdly.
Anyway, I personally think there's enough High Ranker profiles, and some of them border on copy and pasted baseline stats without anything specific to the character themselves. (Mainly Khun Hynd Luch, especially since the guy's dead so we won't be seeing much of him anymore outside of flashbacks)
Cha doesn't have any specific moves to himself and his fighting style seems to be punching really hard, which is already part of Kallavan's thing outside of the explosions. Obviously this will change going forward considering that we'll see him fighting in the Nest, but right now I don't think a profile for Cha is necessary.

If you do make one though, I'd put him at 6-B, likely 6-B+ considering he was more than capable of fighting of Yolker, Sharon, and Co all at once, managed to give Yasratcha a scare and broke through two of his attacks (the same kind that wounded a tired transformed Yama), and made the 5th Squadron minus Yasratcha spread out since if they were grouped up in one place, they would have been all taken out by AoE if a hit landed.

Also, the scale note for Twice Data Maschenny w/ Redan was deleted (The 7-B, likely 7-A's are scaled to be twice as strong as the Low 7-B+, likely 7-A's (10.8 Megatons and 267.6 Megatons)), but Bam's still got that listed in his profile. So what's going on with that?

 

[Enryu_The_Red_Tower]

I didn't add the profiles of Lepavuv and Akryung in ToG's page because I don't know how to add them with photos

Honestly, I think Luch must be Unknown, since despite being a featless character, he was in Hidden Grove, which is made up of relatively strong High Rankers, only due to the lack of feats, Unknown is safe for him

Okay, I'll wait for ToG to come back and Cha fight with someone relevant so that we can make a profile for him

Don't worry, I fixed it, it must have been something that I accidentally edited that messed up Baam's profile a little bit

 

[Enryu_The_Red_Tower]

Also, shouldn't we at least give Advanced Rankers and High Rankers the Resistance to Sense Manipulation? Charlie stated that it does not work well in nomal Rankers, implying that although it does not have as much effect when shown in Regulars, it still works in standard Rankers even if to a lesser extent, but he left the Advanced and High Rankers out of that line, implying that his Sense Manipulation doesn't work on them

 

[ElajRuengies]

I mean, Charlie technically said that it doesn't work well in [fights] with Rankers, which is different from it not working well against Rankers. It not working well in fights could also mean that Ranker level folk can simply dodge or destroy the attack before they're affected easily, so I'd say no

 

[Enryu_The_Red_Tower]

Fair enough

In addition, I somewhat changed the durability of Season 2 TSM Baam, as he was able to survive attacks from a serious Data Zahard, who is superior to Black March Mode Baam, who in turn can overpower the combined might of 2 Rankers

Also, what did you think about my new profile picture, I am a truly man of culture, am I not?

 

[ElajRuengies]

Fair enough

In addition, I somewhat changed the durability of Season 2 TSM Baam, as he was able to survive attacks from a serious Data Zahard, who is superior to Black March Mode Baam, who in turn can overpower the combined might of 2 Rankers

Ignoring your Stonewall Baam agenda That sounds fair

Also, what did you think about my new profile picture, I am a truly man of culture, am I not?

Indeed you are; a man of culture sophisticated enough to make a new anime plot

 

[Enryu_The_Red_Tower]

I mean, that was correct regardless of whether it was my agenda or not, while in fact that you talked is true

I mean, it is almost two years with the same profile picture is kind of strange, and a few months ago I encountered Hololive rabbit hole, so I decided to use the fanart of one of my favorite Vtubers in my profile.

 

[ElajRuengies]

I mean, that was correct regardless of whether it was my agenda or not, while in fact that you talked is true

I mean, it is almost two years with the same profile picture is kind of strange, and a few months ago I encountered Hololive rabbit hole, so I decided to use the fanart of one of my favorite Vtubers in my profile.

Wait, almost two years? That's actually impressive, for some reason (Ah, I've heard stories of VTuber limbo...)

Side Note: Should Hoaqin/White get social influencing since he manipulated a billion people into killing each other by mostly using their belief in him? And if so, should his default self get it since Hoaqin's the one in charge, or should his Prime Self get it since that was what he looked like when he did the scheme way back when. (This look was even iconic enough for rebel groups to do the eye paint thing, as shown with Yolker)