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Tower of God General Discussion Thread Part 5

@Enryu i doubt that Baam needed to tank his own attack, plus he wasn't doing anything to kallavan with previous attacks(excluding the shinworyu). And he didn't took a head on hit and still was gravelly injured, and Baam himself said he needed something to defend against Kallavan.
 
And at the time of the name hunt station i would agree that Yuri should be only Low 6-B with rose shower but since we get more feats i'm fine with the way things are. I agree with Low 6-B normally but i think he should be 6-B when using transcendental skills(Stardust and twin wings at the moment).
 
Baam dodged the two punches from Kallavan and the preparation of the skill is verry similar to the attack he used against that ranker he fought in the cage where the exterior damage was minimal but caused massive internal damage to the ranker, the light and the shockwave should't have that much power.
 
Kallavan described it: one is durable but cant damage me, the other one is weak but can be lethal

Baam physically is weaker than his shinsoo skills, but his shinsoo skills and some other abilities are on High Ranker level.
 
Putting Baam at 6-B durabillity based on the assumption that the shockwave of the strongest attack he used so far is on the same level as the internal damage dealt to Kallavan would contradict what was shown and said at this point in the fight. If he is able to take hits from Kallavan and hurt him with regular attacks in the next chapters(probably will do that if he ignites the thorn) i will agree with 6-B AP and dura but as of right now i'd say only twin wings and stardust are 6-B.
 
If the arguement is if Baam scales to High Rankers, yes, he has the feats. Maybe not physically (except for Thryssa), but he is High Ranker level with his skills (not in base, though).

If the arguement is about scaling Baam to Kallavan, I'd like to watch more of the fight before reaching a conclusion.
 
I agree with PaChi2.

Physically, the text makes it clear that he's not comparable. It's stated in his battle to obtain his ranking position and, as Gabriel has pointed out, Kallavan bluntly says it.

But with his skills he's able to harm them. As is shown in this chapter.

It seems pretty straightforward.
 
Baam was doing zero damage to Kallavan in true self mode exept for when he used shinworyu/stardust and twin wings. And i alreasy said that Baam dodged the two punches from Kallavan. We can't assume that the explosion wields the same power as the damage done to Kallavan internally. As i said, if in the next chapters he uses the second thorn to fight on par with Kallavan then i'm fine with 6-B Bamm. But right now he only managed to really hurt him with his strongest attack to date.
 
This was the stats me and Enryu decided on:

Tier: Low 6-B, higher with Red Thryssa Transformation, 6-B with Second Thorn Boost

Attack Potency: Small Country level+ (Went through Kallavan's casual attacks, and impressed Karaka in the process. Him and Karaka's combined attacks convinced Kallavan to use his Essence of Bravery), higher with Red Thryssa Transformation (Stronger than his normal Red Thryssa Transformation due to being boosted with the First Thorn and his True Self Mode. Briefly traded one blow with Essence of Bravery Kallavan, albeit with great injury), Country level+ with Second Thorn Boost (Stopped a direct punch from Kallavan and made his arm bleed with a Shiwonryu. Kallavan even feared that he would lose his entire arm to the attack, and was now convinced that Baam was truly a threat needed to be eliminated)

Durability: Small Country level+, higher with Red Thryssa Transformation (Barely traded one blow with Essence of Bravery Kallavan, but with great injury), Country level+ with Second Thorn Boost (Stopped a punch from Kallavan and took a direct blast of his own Shiwonryu which made Kallavan bleed) and Blue Thryssa Transformation (Took two to three direct punches from Kallavan before breaking)

Weaknesses: Can only manifest the Second Thorn Boost for a short duration before becoming exhausted.
 
Why Low 6-B+, he is literally right at near 6-B by less than a 2 time multiplier; I think upscaling works.

Doesn't the ranker fight contraditing the rating or is the rating solely for the transformation?
 
I don't remember Bam dodging them punch that caught him off guard while trying to save Karaka.

Also let's not forget...Bam also specializes in Martial Arts. He did tank the explosion from Kall's fist right on the left side of his face.

Like wby did you think he was bleeding and coughing up blood.
 
talking about spoils, i would wait for the people without the fast pass. couple major things happen from chapter 61 - 64 that would change a couple profiles somewhat.
 
I reread Season 2-Ep 33.

Holy cow Bam did scratch U R E K.

Something happened in Bam at the moment.

Also, fun game: try to guess how much Urek held back against the regulars because Devil got hit once by him and was able to keep going.
 
I noticed something funny, looking at the characters of the Tier 6, the powerscaling is surprisingly consistent, whether made on purpose or not by the SIU.

Yuri can generate 5.97 Teratons.

The Top 300 High Rankers are comparable or superior to Transformed Hell Joe, who can held his own against a casual 10% Urek without shinsoo, who in turn can generate 29.3 Teratons.

While the some one of the most notable High Rankers within the Top 300 with certain forms, transformations or powers scales to Khel Hellam's Ancient Power, whose AP is 58.6 Teratons, since it overpowed the combined power of Evankhell (without the Ancient Power) and a partially transformed Yama, while both scales to 29.3 Teratons.

Urek nearly one-shotted Karaka (who is comparable to Yuri) with a finger using 1% of his power, which put him likely around 600 Teratons.

Enryu and Administrators (The strongest characters of the verse, just being bellow Phantaminum overall) scales to 2.6 Petatons.

Honestly, I hardly see a downgrade occurring for the Tier 6 characters in general, since it's really consistent.
 
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surprisingly enough, yes. I noticed that as well, maybe SIU is secretly a fan of death battle and stays consistent with the power levels.
Anyways, if only we didn't have the jump from high 7-A to low 6-B then we would probably have the most verse accurate verse in the wiki.
 
Lol, SIU being secretly a fan of vs battle is really the only plausible explanation for this to be consistent beyond the coincidence factor, but aside from the joke, I'm surprised at how consistent so far the series goes in the powerscaling of the Tier 6 characters

Yes, the jump from 7-A to Low 6-B is a thing, but unfortunately (as far as I can remember), I can't remember a more remarkable feat than the storm made by Data Maschenny with Redan to calculate

So the At least 7-A, likely Low 6-B is the maximum we can give to some characters who can easily one-shot Rankers or Advanced Rankers, but can briefly fight High Rankers who are around Yuri's level
 
Anyways, i see that phanta has been changed to unknown which is sorta sad but who cares. What i want is for someone to add a picture to him. like the only one where his backside appears. I mean, we gotta work with something, even if it is barely understandable.
 
Enryu_The_Red_Tower said:
I noticed something funny, looking at the characters of the Tier 6, the powerscaling is surprisingly consistent, whether made on purpose or not by the SIU.

Yuri can generate 5.97 Teratons.

The Top 300 High Rankers are comparable or superior to Transformed Hell Joe, who can held his own against a casual 10% Urek without shinsoo, who in turn can generate 29.3 Teratons.

While the some one of the most notable High Rankers within the Top 300 with certain forms, transformations or powers scales to Khel Hellam's Ancient Power, whose AP is 58.6 Teratons, since it overpowed the combined power of Evankhell (without the Ancient Power) and a partially transformed Yama, while both scales to 29.3 Teratons.

Urek nearly one-shotted Karaka (who is comparable to Yuri) with a finger using 1% of his power, which put him likely around 600 Teratons.

Enryu and Administrators (The strongest characters of the verse, just being bellow Phantaminum overall) scales to 2.6 Petatons.

Honestly, I hardly see a downgrade occurring for the Tier 6 characters in general, since it's really consistent.
Click to expand...
For me the biggest coincidence in ideal powerscaling has got to be the damage output of Karaka getting bodied during the end of Namehunt and start of the FoD.

Karaka gets a totally destroyed (not including the already gone arm) at 5.9 Teratons.
Karaka gets half destroyed from 1% Urek, which should be 1/10 the output of 10% Urek (big math), or 2.93 Teratons... which is half of 5.9 Teratons. It's Perfect.

(This is assuming that Yuri's Rose Shower totally destroyed his body)

(Also I know that Nest Karaka was able to deflect a punch from Kallavan but that's way ahead in the future after Karaka had even asked for tips on how to fight Kallavan, so the scaling's still fine)
 
ElajRuengies said:
For me the biggest coincidence in ideal powerscaling has got to be the damage output of Karaka getting bodied during the end of Namehunt and start of the FoD.

Karaka gets a totally destroyed (not including the already gone arm) at 5.9 Teratons.
Karaka gets half destroyed from 1% Urek, which should be 1/10 the output of 10% Urek (big math), or 2.93 Teratons... which is half of 5.9 Teratons. It's Perfect.

(This is assuming that Yuri's Rose Shower totally destroyed his body)

(Also I know that Nest Karaka was able to deflect a punch from Kallavan but that's way ahead in the future after Karaka had even asked for tips on how to fight Kallavan, so the scaling's still fine)
Click to expand...
I think I could agree with that, if Urek had used a punch instead of a finger against Karaka

Yeah, Karaka must have probably trained to get stronger to rescue Jinsung and get revenge on Kallavan or it's just the Shounen's logic that a character gets stronger in the next arc because of the plot, so I think he also got stronger in the Nest Arc, lol, if you think about it, Karaka's durability currently would allow him to tank a explosion from El Robina

I know this has nothing to do with the matter, but it seems that the ToG fandom strongly underestimates Yama's Complete Transformation, since they puts him below Prime White with Cullinan, and we have evidence to the contrary
 
Enryu_The_Red_Tower said:
I think I could agree with that, if Urek had used a punch instead of a finger against Karaka

Yeah, Karaka must have probably trained to get stronger to rescue Jinsung and get revenge on Kallavan or it's just the Shounen's logic that a character gets stronger in the next arc because of the plot, so I think he also got stronger in the Nest Arc, lol, if you think about it, Karaka's durability currently would allow him to tank a explosion from El Robina

I know this has nothing to do with the matter, but it seems that the ToG fandom strongly underestimates Yama's Complete Transformation, since they puts him below Prime White with Cullinan, and we have evidence to the contrary
Click to expand...
I mean for me, the energy of a [1% poke] and [1/10 of a 10% punch] are equivalent, because Urek's shown moving his entire arm forward in both cases, so the output should still be the same since the only thing the position of the fingers in his hand should change would be the how the damage gets spread. (It'd be different if it was a flick or snap from a standstill position, since that only has the 1% output of his fingers moving, not the 1% output of the rest of his arm.)

(Although I know that logic's a bit different from standard feat reasoning, plus it would diminish the effect of Urek's showboating if his finger jab was equivalent to just punching Karaka, so I see where you're coming from.)

I mean, if Karaka could currently take a shot from El Robina, then it wouldn't be the first time he's tanked a weapon that can bring down High Rankers way stronger than himself given he made it through Kranos's ultimate ignition. Also yeah, it could just be shounen logic.

I think that's mainly because of Yasratcha owning Yama at the Wall of Pizza Coke Distance (even though Yama was really tired), while White w/ Cullinan fought full power Kallavan on even ground, and the notion of Siracha Sauce being significantly stronger than Kallavan is an odd one since they are/were both Squadron Commanders, and Kallavan's going after Lyborick so comparing him to Yasratcha doesn't come to mind much to begin with. But yeah you're right...
 
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I agree that the energy output generated by his finger and punch must be the same, I'm just saying that the AoE of Urek's attack would have been greater if he had used a punch instead of a finger, so he would have one-shot him

I mean, Yuri's Kranos seemed to depend on the user's own power too, I mean, any ignition weapon depends on its user to be powerful, while El Robina seems to be very strong by itself, lol, the more I think in ToG powerscaling, the stranger it gets, for example: Lepavuv's bullets are much more powerful than El Robina's explosion or Baam's Blue Thryssa shield is far more durable than Jinsung's body

Lol, with the scaling we have currently, Dowon is stronger than Jinsung, thinking about it, if I posted this on ToG Reddit most likely i would get several downvotes, how can I say, it would be like saying that SSJ Kefla is stronger than FT Saga SSB Vegito, people don't like the idea that a character they don't like or hate be stronger than a character that they like, I used to be like that, but I learned to have a free mind and accept those kinds of things

I mean, why Yasratcha being stronger than EoBF Kallavan is strange? Honestly I don't see any problems with that, I just find this almost one-sided favoritism about people portraying Maschenny, Jinsung and Kallavan as the strongest non-irregular High Rankers even above the likes of Yama, Khel Hellam, Evankhell, Elliot and others, and if people pay attention they will see that this is not entirely right
 
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Enryu_The_Red_Tower said:
I agree that the energy output generated by his finger and punch must be the same, I'm just saying that the AoE of Urek's attack would have been greater if he had used a punch instead of a finger, so he would have one-shot him

I mean, Yuri's Kranos seemed to depend on the user's own power too, I mean, any ignition weapon depends on its user to be powerful, while El Robina seems to be very strong by itself, lol, the more I think in ToG powerscaling, the stranger it gets, for example: Lepavuv's bullets are much more powerful than El Robina's explosion or Baam's Blue Thryssa shield is far more durable than Jinsung's body

Lol, with the scaling we have currently, Dowon is stronger than Jinsung, thinking about it, if I posted this on ToG Reddit most likely i would get several downvotes, how can I say, it would be like saying that SSJ Kefla is stronger than FT Saga SSB Vegito, people don't like the idea that a character they don't like or hate be stronger than a character that they like, I used to be like that, but I learned to have a free mind and accept those kinds of things

I mean, why Yasratcha being stronger than EoBF Kallavan is strange? Honestly I don't see any problems with that, I just find this almost one-sided favoritism about people portraying Maschenny, Jinsung and Kallavan as the strongest non-irregular High Rankers even above the likes of Yama, Khel Hellam, Evankhell, Elliot and others, and if people pay attention they will see that this is not entirely right
Click to expand...
Fair enough, considering that it seemed like most of the impact just shot forward in a beam insert crotch-beam joke here

Okay but given that Lefav is specifically limited by the Admin to only firing two shots per day, because even with the recoil shock it's still such a broken ability, that makes sense to me that it's logically stronger than El Robina. Meanwhile there doesn't seem to be any specific thing holding one back from using El Robina multiple times (aside from the plot anyways; why they didn't immediately fire at Jinsung again and again is beyond me.) With that being said; as quoted from TVTropes-
  • The Worf Barrage: Chances are, if something is described as "being able to take down a High Ranker", it's going to fail.
Click to expand...
As for the shield... I'm not going to talk about the shield because if I do then I'll start ranting and never truly stop.

Okay but posting almost anything about Dowon on ToG reddit will get you downvotes. I'd disagree with that one, not because I dislike Dowon but because she stated that Kallavan could probably take on everyone at the wall if he wanted to, while Jinsung nearly stalemated Kallavan in a one on one fight. But I do get what you're saying about popularity power.

Oh boy the mention of Maschenny gave me flashbacks to that Naruto forums post about Maschenny being tiered at 1.5 Kallavans/stronger than Evankhell. Actual message quote:
Cinera: I will continue to write Maschenny wank threads until the ToG section accepts that she is significantly stronger than Squadron Commanders.
Click to expand...
But yeah I can definitely see how Yasratcha is stronger than Kallavan. I think the reason why Khel gets so downplayed is (aside from his unpopularity) how badly Jahad nerfed him when he encountered the 5th Squadron. SIU even stated that the MVP of the fight wasn't the guy who killed over half the canine people, but Jahad for simply stunning/blinding Khel, because if Khel could do free actions then the results could have been very different.

But yeah; popularity power really is a thing to watch out for. (I mean, if one was determined/biased enough then they could say that Repellista w/ Opera was stronger than Sophia Tan since she's shown controlling 40-ish lighthouses as opposed to Sophia's 30.)

I think I wanna bring up something regarding the lack of 6-C's, and how Canzon doing one-handed pushups with metal weights the size of a house on his back (That would be Class M right?) can be used as an intermediate for lifting classes between "Super Human" and "Yuri can lift a mountain". But I'm at school rn so I'll save it for later.
 
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Honestly, I think that because Maschenny's army realizes that El Robina's shoot could do a notable damage on Jinsung and he can block it easily, they stopped using it because they knew it would be useless or simply because of the plot as you said, honestly, Lepavuv's bullets downplay on other sites is funny, in addition to the fact that they didn't like how her Crabs could block an attack from Decompressed Evankhell.

Dowon in theory is a good character, but the way SIU portrayed her is what makes people hate her. I just wanted to use Jinsung and Dowon as an example, although I think Dowon > Base Maschenny

Honestly, I only see Maschenny comparable to EoBF Kallavan and stronger than Evankhell (without the Ancient Power) while using the Redan, which would put her at the 6-B+ anyway and I also hate the thing of "power of popularity", this is only used when is convenient, it's just headcanon based, Tower of God is not DBS for the powerscaling to be so complicated and difficult to understand

Khel Hellam's PTSD because of Zahard (and the latter's ability to use Khel Hellam's power against himself) is one of the things that prevented him from doing things that drastically change the course of fights, seriously, just considering his powers and what he is capable of without no need for SIU to talk about it, you can see that he would be able to bring very different results in the battles of the Wall of Coexistence and The Nest in favor of FUG

Yes, the jump of 7-A to Low 6-B is weird, but since we don't have any notable feat 6-C or High 6-C, that's the most we can do, unless you remember a feat interesting to calculate, and Canzon's Lifting Strength feat seems legit and good
 
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Lepavuv's bullets downplay on other sites is funny, in addition to the fact that they didn't like how her Crabs could block an attack from Decompressed Evankhell.
Click to expand...

"Maui man!
You could try, try, try; but you can't expect a demi-god-
To beat a decapod!
(Look it up)"
Yeah; and execution is everything. As for Maschenny and headcanon biases making comparisons more difficult than they need to be; I have to admit that I'm also guilty of this given that, due to their personalities, I really want to see White and Maschenny fight. Because of this, I think that Maschenny taking a Lightning Pill would put her on equal-ish footing with Prime White, because I think that Igniting the Yellow May would just cause White to split up again due to the whole Spell-Breaking thing, even if the [Sometimes Higher-Grade Spells can break Lower-Grade Spells] thing applies to that situation. (Again, headcanons)

Yeah, Khel is totally busted.

Hearing Canzon's weight training feat counts is good, although saying that I now realize that he doesn't have a profile...

As for 6-C feats, uh... I think Dorian Frog casually stopping the Hell Train might be one, considering how it took three Rankers working together in order to do the same thing, although it also might not. (Plus, the Hell Train is stupidly hard to find the mass and speed of considering that it seems to change size every other panel, much like a lot of the other 3D stuff)

Speaking of feats; this is more of a supporting feat rather than some new information given what we already know, but at the end of S3 Ch. 40/ start of S3 Ch. 41, Kallavan says that he'd gladly destroy the Wall for Khane. (The section of the Wall Dowon was in)

Now, as quoted from Khun in S3 Ch38
The wall may look close because it's so big, but if we start walking now, it'll take us til tomorrow morning to get there.
Click to expand...
He then follows that with
Jahad's troops may be lurking in the area, so we've got to walk to avoid drawing attention to ourselves.
Click to expand...
So I'm assuming standard powerwalking speed.

The bet to Steal the Fang started at midnight, and given the sheer speed of everything going on between getting the Fang and Khel admitting defeat, I'm thinking that an hour passed tops, so it technically should already be tomorrow morning, but they went to a different Floor through Myan, so I have no idea what time of day it is there.

Still, according to the walking line, the Wall should be in general a dozen or two kilometers away probably, and considering that the Wall still looks this big, is it possible to calculate the energy required to destroy it like Kallavan said?

Edit: Nevermind, a rough angsize told me that this was just Large Mountain Level
 
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MiguelABarrios said:
not surprising, SiU is bad with perspective and size of things, example: the hills in the floor of death.
Click to expand...
Yeah, I remember him saying that Aguero and Season 2 Baam having 1.80 meter tall, although Yuri have the same exactly size as the same these two by his own words in a Q&A, though she is apparently two heads taller than them in the webtoon itself
 
Remember how in Yuri's Rose Shower, the Hell Train was shown to be bigger than The Namehunt Station? Fun times!

It's not all bad though; the good thing about the 3D modeled stuff is that it always stays at a consistent size relative to itself (in other words, the proportions never change), which means that if you can find anything consistent to scale it too, it becomes easy to find the size of.

The problem you have to tackle is the consistent part... Which I managed for the Crown Room at least!

(@Enryu_The_Red_Tower
Question: I'm still new here so I don't know how calc posting works. Should I just put it here or make a new thread? Because I might also have more things to say because I've realized something when it comes to the 2 speed calcs we have for ToG characters)
 
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