Tower of God General Discussion Thread Part 5

[Enryu_The_Red_Tower]

Yes, as I said, it is strange not to change your profile picture. Yes, Vtubers, girls wearing cute anime avatars who, contrary to their appearance shown, they are more degenerate than most their fans, which already says a lot

Honestly, about Social Influencing for Hoaqin/White, I think his Prime state should have it, since his Weakened and Post-3 Siblings states seem to control people through sheer brute force instead of using charisma and as has been shown, despite Hoaqin be the main one in charge, his Weakened and Post-Siblings states shows immaturity, but every time he gets stronger, his personality gets calmer, cooler and more calculating, as we saw with his Post-Spirit Room, Post-Clone and Prime states

Also, if the calculations of Weakened Hoaqin and Floor of Death Arc Baam are accepted, what would the scaling look like? Can you make a summary?

 

[ElajRuengies]

@Enryu_The_Red_Tower
I'll get to adding that when I get access to my computer again; currently on mobile

Luckily I had this already set up in a keep to paste; here's what I got (I don't think I missed anything but I might be wrong)

Name Hunt Base Ran: 152.14 Kilotons (High 7-C)
NH Novick: Same
NH Rak: Same, durability is possibly 304.28 Kilotons- Survived a couple attacks from Arie Inieta.
NH Khun: Same, Lighthouses are 304.28 Kilotons- Easily blocked an attack from Yukan, who was one of the strongest bosses

Weakened Hoaqin: 304.28 Kilotons (High 7-C)
Dallar Show Bam w/ Thorn: Same
Name Hunt Ran w/ Redan: Same
Arie Inieta: Same
Name Hunt Base Bam: 304.28 Kilotons (High 7-C); completely stomped Yukan who was one of the strongest Bosses.

Name Hunt Ran w/ 2nd Redan: 608.55 Kilotons (High 7-C+)
Arie Inieta's Strongest Attack: Same
Kaiser: Same
Name Hunt Endorsi: Same
NH Bam w/ Thorn: Weaker than 912.83 Kilotons, higher than 608.55 Kilotons.

Siblings Absorbed Hoaquin: 912.83 Kilotons (High 7-C+)
Power of Souls Bam: Same/Higher

FoD Bam w/ Thorn: 2.4 Megatons (Low 7-B)
Data Hansung: Should be comparable (Amped up start of Hidden Floor Bam w/ Thorn)
Post Hidden Floor Endorsi: Should be superior to this via scaling to Hansung
Post Hidden Floor Siblings Absorbed Hoaqin: Scales to Endorsi

Oddballs/Unsure:
NH Hatz: At least 152.14 Kilotons (High 7-C); took a Lighthouse boosted attack from Khun so 304.28 Kilotons maybe; Donghae possibly brings him to High 7-C+ (608.55 Kilotons)?

S3 Hatz: It says that he should be stronger than Post Hidden Floor Endorsi, but nothing confirms this in story. (Granted, nothing denies it either since Endorsi's somewhere offscreen)

Dallar Show Base Bam: Maybe 152.14
Kilotons (High 7-C)?

Hidden Floor Bam without the Thorn: Should be less than 2.4 Megatons, but unknown by how much. This uncertainty causes problems for the following;

Hidden Floor Khun: Somehow survived an attack from Bam's Sworn Enemy, who is as strong as start of Hidden Floor Bam w/o the Thorn. Lighthouses and Ice can trap Bam's Sworn Enemy.

Hidden Floor Rak: Blocked an attack from Bam's Sworn Enemy w/ rocks with no damage, took another attack from him with his body with much less damage than Khun. Staggered Khun by punching him in the stomach early on; broke out of Khun trying to restrain him.

 

[Enryu_The_Red_Tower]

@ElajRuengies

I understand, it seems good and I agree, the only things I would change would be: That the characters who scale to 152.14 Kilotons become "Likely High 7-C" to differentiate themselves from the "High 7-C" (304.28 Kilotons) characters. Dallar Show Base Baam should scale to 152.14 Kilotons. I think Hidden Floor Androssi even before her training with Data Eduan should be "Low 7-B" due to her being portrayed as comparable to Data Yu Han Sung. Floor of Death Base Baam should be "High 7-C+" (608.55 Kilotons) due to his extensive training with GoG and made him stronger than before. Hidden Floor Base Baam should be "At least High 7-C+" (Superior to 608.55 Kilotons) due to being boosted after the Red Thryssa went inside him, thus Rak and Khun after their training should scale to this since they can fight against Baam's Sworn Enemy. Post-Clone Hoaqin (Dallar Show) and Power of Souls Baam should be "At least High 7-C+ (912.83 Kilotons), likely higher"

It’s really complicated to put NM Hatsu in the chain scaling

 

[ImNot4nUser]

Wait, almost two years? That's actually impressive, for some reason (Ah, I've heard stories of VTuber limbo...)

Side Note: Should Hoaqin/White get social influencing since he manipulated a billion people into killing each other by mostly using their belief in him? And if so, should his default self get it since Hoaqin's the one in charge, or should his Prime Self get it since that was what he looked like when he did the scheme way back when. (This look was even iconic enough for rebel groups to do the eye paint thing, as shown with Yolker)

No, how he raised to power is better example of influencing(but too vague) but using their beliefs of him is easier, he was kinda like a messiah to both country, Kinda like convincing someone that have a crush for you to do something for u. But more religious.

 

[Enryu_The_Red_Tower]

I don't know, yet I think its still Social Influencing, only not as noticeable in comparison to Baam's and in a minor degree, I think this is Limited Social Influencing

Also, when we use Post-Revolution Baam in a vs match-up, we use his version of him after he evolved his Shinwonryu Orb, discovered the True Self Mode and 1st Thorn Igniton or his version of him right after his training with Data Eduan prior his battle with Data Zahard?

 

[ElajRuengies]

@ElajRuengies

I understand, it seems good and I agree, the only things I would change would be: That the characters who scale to 152.14 Kilotons become "Likely High 7-C" to differentiate themselves from the "High 7-C" (304.28 Kilotons) characters. Dallar Show Base Baam should scale to 152.14 Kilotons. I think Hidden Floor Androssi even before her training with Data Eduan should be "Low 7-B" due to her being portrayed as comparable to Data Yu Han Sung. Floor of Death Base Baam should be "High 7-C+" (608.55 Kilotons) due to his extensive training with GoG and made him stronger than before. Hidden Floor Base Baam should be "At least High 7-C+" (Superior to 608.55 Kilotons) due to being boosted after the Red Thryssa went inside him, thus Rak and Khun after their training should scale to this since they can fight against Baam's Sworn Enemy. Post-Clone Hoaqin (Dallar Show) and Power of Souls Baam should be "At least High 7-C+ (912.83 Kilotons), likely higher"

On that Endorsi point- if that's the case then I'd have to put her as superior to Kaiser/ superior to 608.55 Kilotons during Name Hunt since her raw AP should be comparable to Lilial & Shilial, who- being the strongest D-Rank- should be above Kaiser. That's not to say that Kaiser is an inferior combatant, but rather she has less brute force and a more hax oriented powerset, therefore her AP should be lower than Endorsi's. (Also, she doesn't have Jahad's blood while Endorsi, Shilial, and Lilial do, which is a significant physical stat booster)

Alright so;
Likely High 7-C is 152.14 Kilotons (NH Base Ran, NH Novick, DS Base Bam, NH Rak AP, NH Khun)
High 7-C is 304.28 Kilotons (Weakened Hoaqin, NH Redan Ran, DS Bam w/ Thorn, NH Rak Durability, NH Khun w/ Lighthouses, Arie Inieta, NH Base Bam)
High 7-C+ is 608.55 Kilotons (NH 2nd Redan Ran, Arie Inieta Last Move, Kaiser, FoD Base Bam)
At least High 7-C+ is superior to 608.55 Kilotons (NH Bam w/ Thorn, NH Endorsi, HF Pre-Revolution Base Bam, HF Rak, HF Khun)
At least High 7-C+, likely higher is 912.83 Kilotons (Siblings Absorbed Hoaqin, Power of Souls Bam)
Low 7-B is 2.4 Megatons (HF Endorsi, FoD Bam w/ Thorn, Data Hansung, Post HF Siblings Absorbed Hoaqin)

Does that look right?

It’s really complicated to put NM Hatsu in the chain scaling

Agreed...

No, how he raised to power is better example of influencing(but too vague) but using their beliefs of him is easier, he was kinda like a messiah to both country, Kinda like convincing someone that have a crush for you to do something for u. But more religious.

I don't know, yet I think its still Social Influencing, only not as noticeable in comparison to Baam's and in a minor degree, I think this is Limited Social Influencing

Social Influencing is ones ability to manipulate other characters using some form of charm.

I mean, it's kinda the same(?), but it also isn't. The thing I see is that if I give White social influencing for his whole messiah shtick, then I'd also have to give the other Slayers social influencing as well, since being revered/revering yourself as a God comes along with the Slayer position, it's just that White was the one who abused the heck out of it the most. Seeing as how people like Reflejo and Jordan talked about Karaka and Baylord Yama, giving Karaka and Yama passive social influencing (since they don't actively try to be charismatic) might be justified? I dunno, honestly.
What makes this muddier is how SIU talks about Karaka's image. (Source)

Even though Karaka’s army has some strong rankers, because the nature of the battle is one with a gathering of very high-up rankers, the feeling will possibly be different from when we saw Pedro. Haha
The truth is all of them are either close to or stronger than Pedro in strength.
Also, if you look at it, Karaka is fortunate to have such good followers(…) In FUG because Karaka seems like the most active slayer, for his age he has many followers.
Well, it’s not like Karaka’s personality is bad or he is hostile to his followers.
He may even be very popular?

Whatever Slayers do, it definitely isn't the same as Bam's "He's like a Star"-social influencing, but it still might be social influencing.

Also, when we use Post-Revolution Baam in a vs match-up, we use his version of him after he evolved his Shinwonryu Orb, discovered the True Self Mode and 1st Thorn Igniton or his version of him right after his training with Data Eduan prior his battle with Data Zahard?

I assume it's the former, since the latter is nigh featless apart from the one chapter of Zahard kicking his butt and getting a scratch

Side Note: Added the Lo Po Bia Lepavuv and Akryung images and links and moved Pedro to FUG Rankers

 

[Enryu_The_Red_Tower]

@ElajRuengies

Yeah, this scaling seems good for me and I also agree that in general that Androssi and Baam with 1st Thorn are stronger than Kaiser, they just lost (in the case of Androssi) or had difficulty (in the case of Baam) just because of the her hax, Name Hunt Station rules and environmental advantage

I think we should solve the NM Hatsu AP issue, but at least he seems to be equal to NH Khun

Yes, I agree that this still looks like Social Influencing, especially considering that Slayers have minions so loyal to the point of fanaticism and giving their lives for their goals, considering that to reach this point of people doing this, it is necessary to have charisma

Well, this Baam still gave a far better fight against a suppressed Zahard who was holding back less than when he "fought" with Data Maschenny with Redan (lol, I see Maschenny fanboys comparing her Data self with Redan as comparable to TSM Baam just because of the damage that deal to Data Zahard's mask was the same and saying Data Zagard recognized her as a worthy opponent because he used Lecalicus against her, but he only did it as a sign of respect for her determination despite of the massive power difference)

Also, shouldn't we make profiles separating the young data versions of Zahard, Eduan, Maschenny and Yu Han Sung from their current adult selfs? In general the only thing that sets them apart is the fact that they are made of data, they are younger, some different powers and personality, the rest is still the same from their adult selfs, only on a smaller scale

 

[ImNot4nUser]

I still disagree with social influencing,its not like Bam and Wangnam that are stated to bring ppl around them, with them being non famous and not a figure of admiration, He has to be treated god-like by FUG Cult" WHICH is stated to be like a RELIGIOUS group inside the tower, and for someone like Karaka who is a "nice" person to them is just a bonus to their loyalty.

Also, if Enryu changed pfp why not me too? that point pfp has been with me since i created my account.

 

[ElajRuengies]

@ElajRuengies

Yeah, this scaling seems good for me and I also agree that in general that Androssi and Baam with 1st Thorn are stronger than Kaiser, they just lost (in the case of Androssi) or had difficulty (in the case of Baam) just because of the her hax, Name Hunt Station rules and environmental advantage

I think we should solve the NM Hatsu AP issue, but at least he seems to be equal to NM Khun

NH Hatz fought NH Khun so 152 Kilotons is a given, but he also took an attack from Khun who was boosting his AP w/ his lighthouses so possibly 304 Kilotons, except that Hatz stated it would have been deadly if Khun was actually using a good weapon and not just a knife, so that could probably be discounted and Hatz gets dialed back to 152 Kilotons, but this doesn't solve the thing with Donghae which broke Shilial's sword so...

Likely 7-C, at least 7-C with Donghae, Unknown with Donghae ignition?

Yes, I agree that this still looks like Social Influencing, especially considering that Slayers have minions so loyal to the point of fanaticism and giving their lives for their goals, considering that to reach this point of people doing this, it is necessary to have charisma

I still disagree with social influencing,its not like Bam and Wangnam that are stated to bring ppl around them, with them being non famous and not a figure of admiration, He has to be treated god-like by FUG Cult" WHICH is stated to be like a RELIGIOUS group inside the tower, and for someone like Karaka who is a "nice" person to them is just a bonus to their loyalty.

This sounds like a chicken or the egg problem;
Are Slayers revered as gods because of how influencing they are? (If so, then they have Social Influencing)
or are Slayers so good at influencing because they're revered as gods? (If so, then their influencing is due to outside circumstances, and not within their own power)

Someone flip a coin to decide this

Also, if Enryu changed pfp why not me too? that point pfp has been with me since i created my account.

Yall's dedication is surprising
[Insert Monarch of Pointland joke here]

Well, this Baam still gave a far better fight against a suppressed Zahard who was holding back less than when he "fought" with Data Maschenny with Redan (lol, I see Maschenny fanboys comparing her Data self with Redan as comparable to TSM Baam just because of the damage that deal to Data Zahard's mask was the same and saying Data Zagard recognized her as a worthy opponent because he used Lecalicus against her, but he only did it as a sign of respect for her determination despite of the massive power difference)

(Careful now, you might wake Cinera for stating such blasphemy...)
Wait, if that's the case then why is Base Bam w/ Thorn at the same Tier as Data Maschenny w/ Redan. I brought this up a bit ago but wasn't he double that for being able to actually scratch Jahad? I don't disagree with you, I'm just saying that the numbers listed don't reflect this

Also, shouldn't we make profiles separating the young data versions of Zahard, Eduan, Maschenny and Yu Han Sung from their current adult selfs? In general the only thing that sets them apart is the fact that they are made of data, they are younger, some different powers and personality, the rest is still the same from their adult selfs, only on a smaller scale

I don't think so; if there's so little separating them between current and their data form, then why make them separate profiles?

 

[Enryu_The_Red_Tower]

I mean, Hatsu breaking Shilial's sword seems to be the same case when Sharon broke Evankhell's sword, both (Shilial and Evankhell) seem to be holding back or being casual when their weapons were broken by opponents weaker than them.

Honestly, this seems like a complicated situation about the FUG Slayers are influential because of themselves or because of their status as "FUG Gods" within the organization is influential, I wonder what you think of that, @ElajRuengies. But it is also necessary to remember that although FUG is a religious organization, they are not cooperative with each other if they are from different factions within FUG, as we saw as Yama and the canine people are with the people from Khel Hellam's faction

I mean, not that someone on this site is obliged to not be able to change the photo, lol, I just couldn't find a good photo to change for a very long time, but I finally managed to find a perfect picture to change, if you know what I mean

Well, Baam with 1st Thorn is just much stronger than Data Maschenny with Redan for an unknown amount, but it is not enough for a 2x multiplier and from what I remember, multipliers are not allowed just because you hurt an opponent that other character can't harm

Yes, currently, I don't think it is necessary to separate the profiles from their current and data versions

 

[ImNot4nUser]

I mean, not that someone on this site is obliged to not be able to change the photo, lol, I just couldn't find a good photo to change for a very long time, but I finally managed to find a perfect picture to change, if you know what I mean

dont worry i simply liked the .gif so much that i changed it to my pfp in all sites im in. And you changed it too so therebwasva funny coincidence.

 

[ElajRuengies]

I mean, Hatsu breaking Shilial's sword seems to be the same case when Sharon broke Evankhell's sword, both (Shilial and Evankhell) seem to be holding back or being casual when their weapons were broken by opponents weaker than them.

In that case I'll just set Hatz to Likely 7-C and be done with thinking about it

Honestly, this seems like a complicated situation about the FUG Slayers are influential because of themselves or because of their status as "FUG Gods" within the organization is influential, I wonder what you think of that, @ElajRuengies. But it is also necessary to remember that although FUG is a religious organization, they are not cooperative with each other if they are from different factions within FUG, as we saw as Yama and the canine people are with the people from Khel Hellam's faction

FUG is extremely like a religious organization in that there's a handful of different major sects which despise each other and would only cooperate if it meant fighting a large common enemy, and even then participation may be lacking...

Well, Baam with 1st Thorn is just much stronger than Data Maschenny with Redan for an unknown amount, but it is not enough for a 2x multiplier and from what I remember, multipliers are not allowed just because you hurt an opponent that other character can't harm

Ah, okay then

Yes, currently, I don't think it is necessary to separate the profiles from their current and data versions

Then why did you bring it up? Wait, do you mean that you want to combine the tabbers? Because in that case I feel like those should be separate for convenience for small things like the Hidden Floor immortality, and to match the tabbed profile pictures. (Except for Eduan, whose current appearance is a mystery)

Side Note: Before I go work on school stuff, let me just say that The Nest is absolutely freaking huge. (In the event that Maschenny fills the entire thing with a storm, or Adori shows up and pulverizes the thing, I'll be prepared)

 

[Enryu_The_Red_Tower]

Yes, FUG is a religion, a religion whose main objective is to kill "gods", lol

I brought this just to ask you if it was necessary to profile that separates their current from the data versions, I was just thinking about it if the Adult versions of Zahard and Eduan demonstrates an amount of powers as big as Baam's that it would be necessary to make one separate profile. I don't plan to merge the tabbers, it seems like a really bad idea and Data versions have some that abilities that Real versions don't have.

Yes, I do not doubt that Adori will be the one who will perform this feat of destroying The Nest, considering that her subordinate is so crazy that even Maschenny called him a lunatic (the dirty one talking about the badly washed, lol) and Adori herself must be much crazier, I have no doubt that she has the ability to destroy The Nest just to kill Baam, even with her allies on the battlefield

 

[ElajRuengies]

Yes, FUG is a religion, a religion whose main objective is to kill "gods", lol

I brought this just to ask you if it was necessary to profile that separates their current from the data versions, I was just thinking about it if the Adult versions of Zahard and Eduan demonstrates an amount of powers as big as Baam's that it would be necessary to make one separate profile. I don't plan to merge the tabbers, it seems like a really bad idea and Data versions have some that abilities that Real versions don't have.

Ohhhh, I see. I mean, if the difference in ability count is as notable as the one between S2 and S3 Bam, then it might be needed, but that's speculation for the future.

Yes, I do not doubt that Adori will be the one who will perform this feat of destroying The Nest, considering that her subordinate is so crazy that even Maschenny called him a lunatic (the dirty one talking about the badly washed, lol) and Adori herself must be much crazier, I have no doubt that she has the ability to destroy The Nest just to kill Baam, even with her allies on the battlefield

-And speaking of speculation, because I have zero impulse control I ran the numbers for destroying The Nest (The Walls and the Frozen Waterfall; the rest is mostly empty space) using the 2nd Estimate's dimensions and area calcs of concentric squares, and it'd take between ~30 and ~90 Teratons to pulverize the 3 Walls (Using the pulverization values for rock, limestone, and reinforced concrete to get the ends), and 100-250 Teratons to destroy the Frozen Waterfall itself (Using the compressive strength for corundum/sapphire since I couldn't find shear strength, and listed pulverization value for diamond. Suspendium is basically a gemstone going by the implications of Khun's line about hiding jewels). With that being said, considering that the walls are enchanted with a spell only the 10 Family Heads / Jahad / Irregulars can break, Adori wouldn't actually be able to destroy the walls unless she ignited the Golden November or something (13 Months are the Ultimate Spell Item so it might overpower the walls' spell) In other words, Urek Mazino is likely capable of turning the entire Nest to dust in one punch, using just his bare physical strength...

(Also, the Ancient Odd-Eyed Cobra circling around the Frozen Waterfall is around 60 - 100 kilometers long, and Dowon could briefly halt it while Cha was capable of pushing it back. Although granted, that happened in a flashback to thousands of years ago so the snake was likely way smaller than it is currently. Still impressive though!)

But yeah, Adori seems to be paranoid when it comes to Bam, so her doing that wouldn't surprise me too much. Although that would be a bit counter productive / redundant given that the replacement for the 4th Squadron is stationed there after already getting rid of the original 4th Squadron (bringing the total number of Squadrons prepared at the Nest to three. For comparison, the Last Station battle only had 3/4ths of a Squadron, and only 2/3rds of that made it to the Station thanks to Jinsung taking out the warship with El Robina)
Although I personally think the Nest could be destroyed in some other ways, mainly by whatever the Hell is the thing that has Evankhell so worried and spitting death flags.

But yeah, Maschenny calling Lyborick a lunatic for killing all of Kallavan's troops for scheming purposes is kinda funny considering that she did the exact same thing to talk to Jinsung.

Also, this just occurred to me but I'd put the God of Guardians at Ranker level since Ha Chai, someone who passed every test, made it to the top, and earned the right to become a Ranker but refused, is stated to be weaker than all of Bam's previous teachers/trainers, which would also include him along with Hansung, Jinsung, Data Eduan, and Evankhell (but that statement is kinda obvious for those people)

 

[ElajRuengies]

Random thing I noticed but, Likely 6-B's (Koon Hynd Luch, S3 TSM Bam w/ 1st & 2nd Thorn) are set at the bare minimum of 7 Teratons, right?

 

[Enryu_The_Red_Tower]

Yep, they are at the 6-B baseline

 

[ElajRuengies]

Good news! The Hoaqin Crater feat got evaluated and accepted! (Although a 2nd calc member was suggested for the Bamboo feat so we'll probably have to wait another month)

 

[Enryu_The_Red_Tower]

Since we anticipate who will scale to the calcs, can we add or should we wait for the calc of Baam destroying the giant Bamboo to be accepted by a 2nd calc member?

 

[ElajRuengies]

Since we anticipate who will scale to the calc of Hoaqin, can we add or should we wait for the calc of Baam destroying the giant Bamboo to be accepted so that we can do everything at once and some profiles not became confusing?

I'd say hold off on adding it for now, but if it takes more than a week to get a second opinion on the Bamboo Spear feat, then add the Crater feat and only change the scalings to that. The scaling gaps where the Bamboo calc fit in can just be substituted with "At Least" [Scaling to Crater Feat] in the meantime

Yep, they are at the 6-B baseline

Okay, so it's a benchmark other characters can be scaled to then?
Because if so, then I feel like Elpathion should scale to at least this considering the whole [Containing a casual match between Evankhell and Khun Royale Ellliot] feat, not to mention as the only 1st Tier Servant of Kallavan, and being the Assistant Squadron Commander, he should upscale from 2nd Tier Servants / Division Commanders like Ari Bright Sharon and Ha Cheonhee.
I'd additionally place Partial Transformation Paul here, since Doom noted that even if Paul was transformed and didn't feel pain, he'd still die against Dokoko given the gap between him and a Branch Leader, so he isn't 6-B yet. It's only until after his Half-Body Transformation to where he's portrayed as comparable to Doom.
Yuri w/ Green April Ignition might also be this, although Cheonhee would still be Small Country Level+ given that Yuri didn't have the Green April ignited when she fought Cheonhee. (Sort of- while Yuri was carrying the Green April, she didn't actually use it and it didn't change it's length, and it was absent while she was pummeling Cheonhee and broke through her Slypheed Shields)

 

[Enryu_The_Red_Tower]

Oh, ok then, let's just wait, we're not in a hurry anyway, but I think you should call a calc member to evaluate the Bamboo calc

Honestly, I don't know who created Luch's profile (honestly, I wanted to ask the person who created his profile why he / she don't created a profile of a worth character that have at least a good amount of feats instead of this character, heck, even Canzon deserves a profile more than Luch), but honestly in my opinion I think he should be Unknown because he is being a featless character

As I recall, S3 TSM Baam with 2nd Thorn should be baseline of 6-B due to a big chain scaling like this: TSM Baam with 2nd Thorn (7 Teratons) >> TSM Baam with Red Thryssa >> normal TSM Baam> The Nest Arc Karaka> Yuri Base (5,972 Teratons)

But on second thought, I think Elpathion deserves the 6-B baseline due to containing the shockwaves of two 6-B+

I think Paul with Partial Transformations should stay where he is, I think Doom was talking more about the damage Paul would accumulate would kill him if he continued in his berserk state if he keeps taking Dokoko's attacks head-on for much time and we know that he was underestimating Paul's power the whole time, in addition to how we see, Dokoko looks like he was intent on killing Paul when he attacked him (and even then, Paul withstood that technique) and Paul was able to damage and stagger the 2nd Form Windbird

I think Yuri with Green April Ignition and the characters who scale her should be still where are they, "At least Low 6-B+", as they have no justified upscaling big enough to be at the 6-B baseline where S3 TSM Baam with 2nd Thorn is

 

[ElajRuengies]

Oh, ok then, let's just wait, we're not in a hurry anyway, but I think you should call a calc member to evaluate the Bamboo calc

I was going to message Kieran about it but then I saw you already did; thanks!

Honestly, I don't know who created Luch's profile (honestly, I wanted to ask the person who created his profile why he / she don't created a profile of a worth character that have at least a good amount of feats instead of this character, heck, even Canzon deserves a profile more than Luch), but honestly in my opinion I think he should be Unknown because he is being a featless character

According to the history it was someone by the name of Kevenkiller on March 15th, 2020, making it a little over a year old with 13 total edits

As I recall, S3 TSM Baam with 2nd Thorn should be baseline of 6-B due to a big chain scaling like this: TSM Baam with 2nd Thorn (7 Teratons) >> TSM Baam with Red Thryssa >> normal TSM Baam> The Nest Arc Karaka> Yuri Base (5,972 Teratons)

Yeah, and I agree with that chain scale for the most part (except for Nest Karaka's AP being higher than Yuri's. I don't see even his offensive moves like Double-White Crow Strike being higher than the Rose Shower. Still his AP's comparable to Yuri and the gap between Bam's forms makes it fair)

But on second thought, I think Elpathion deserves the 6-B baseline due to containing the shockwaves of two 6-B+

Justice for Galaga-head!

I think Paul with Partial Transformations should stay where he is, I think Doom was talking more about the damage Paul would accumulate would kill him if he continued in his berserk state if he keeps taking Dokoko's attacks head-on for much time and we know that he was underestimating Paul's power the whole time, in addition to how we see, Dokoko looks like he was intent on killing Paul when he attacked him (and even then, Paul withstood that technique) and Paul was able to damage and stagger the 2nd Form Windbird

Fair enough; damaging the Windbird is impressive

I think Yuri with Green April Ignition and the characters who scale her should be still where are they, "At least Low 6-B+", as they have no justified upscaling big enough to be at the 6-B baseline where S3 TSM Baam with 2nd Thorn is

Also makes sense, although taking a look at Cheonhee's profile it says her Sylpheed shields are Country level on account of blocking Post-Clone White's [Complete Incineration - Deathly Sword of Heavenly Spirits, Incinerating Deadly Spirit - White Magnolia] (Jesus that's a long name), and while it being Country level is justified given the whole "Judging by that last attack, he's as strong as the Squadron Commander" line about White, it does put Cheonhee and Yuri in a weird spot considering Yuri managed to break through them without igniting the Green April...

 

[Enryu_The_Red_Tower]

The Nest Arc Karaka isn't far superior to Base Yuri (without the Green April Ignition), the difference is small anyway, but, yeah, they are still comparable

I mean, White Crow is a dura negation technique anyway

Also, you can just say "Deathly Sword of Heavenly Spirits - White Magnolia", it is shorter, although it is still a big name. As I recall, Yuri didn't exactly break her Slypheed Shields, she broke the Sylpheed that produced the shield, since Cheonhee was unable to react to Yuri when she attacked and destroyed the equipment in the process, and if Yuri really destroyed the Shields, this is simply an outlier

 

[ElajRuengies]

The Nest Arc isn't far superior to Base Yuri (without the Green April Ignition), the difference is small anyway, but, yeah, they are still comparable

I mean, White Crow is a dura negation technique anyway

Alright fair enough

Also, you can just say "Deathly Sword of Heavenly Spirits - White Magnolia", it is shorter, although it is still a big name. As I recall, Yuri didn't exactly break her Slypheed Shields, she broke the Sylpheed that produced the shield, since Cheonhee was unable to react to Yuri when she attacked and destroyed the equipment in the process, and if Yuri really destroyed the Shields, this is simply an outlier

Huh- taking a second look at that and the purple stuff doesn't actually break or do that standard forcefield glass crack, but the Sylpheed spear does. Fair enough. (White is incredibly extra, if his transforming crown is anything to go by)

 

[Enryu_The_Red_Tower]

I remembered two notable feats, the first is the explosion created by the clash of Novick and Base Ran, the explosion was large enough to be seen from a distance from the island where the fight took place. The second feat was the scattering of clouds that Baam's Stardust did during the Last Station Arc

 

[ElajRuengies]

I remembered two notable feats, the first is the explosion created by the clash of Novick and Base Ran, the explosion was large enough to be seen from a distance from the island where the fight took place. The second feat was the scattering of clouds that Baam's Stardust did during the Last Station Arc

For the second- the clouds in the background don't change at all (as they aren't drawn, but an edited jpeg image of real life clouds, which I somehow hadn't noticed until now, and now I can't unsee it because it's everywhere in the Last Station), while the clouds created/condensed in the foreground don't seem to be more than a few thousand cubic meters, which is only in the kilotons.

For the first one, uh... I might have to look at that later when I have the time, but I recently just made a calc and I'm currently busy so it'll have to wait

 

[Enryu_The_Red_Tower]

Oh! Khel Hellam's calc seems good and is consistent with what we have, since Khel Hellam's Partial Release of Ancient Power overpowered an combined attack from two 6-B's (Which would result in 58.4 Teratons) and the calc itself (59.5 Teratons) is a somewhat superior to the combined might of Yama and Evankhel

 

[ImNot4nUser]

For the second- the clouds in the background don't change at all (as they aren't drawn, but an edited jpeg image of real life clouds, which I somehow hadn't noticed until now, and now I can't unsee it because it's everywhere in the Last Station), while the clouds created/condensed in the foreground don't seem to be more than a few thousand cubic meters, which is only in the kilotons.

For the first one, uh... I might have to look at that later when I have the time, but I recently just made a calc and I'm currently busy so it'll have to wait

IFKR, not only there, but everywhere else too

edit: everywhere reffers to every sky fight

 

[Enryu_The_Red_Tower]

I mean, considering SIU's wrist pain, I don't care or blame him for sometimes using real-life scenarios as a background (as long as it's not too explicit, obviously)

Also, someone here doesn't bother a lot about the very flashy and explosive fights in ToG when its about the High Rankers? I mean, its been foreshadowed and warned since the beginning of ToG that the fights between Rankers and High Rankers are comparable to walking nuclear bombs, I don't understand why since the Last Station Arc people complain about it

 

[ImNot4nUser]

I mean, considering SIU's wrist pain, I don't care or blame him for sometimes using real-life scenarios as a background (as long as it's not too explicit, obviously)

Also, someone here doesn't bother a lot about the very flashy and explosive fights in ToG when its about the High Rankers? I mean, its been foreshadowed and warned since the beginning of ToG that the fights between Rankers and High Rankers are comparable to walking nuclear bombs, I don't understand why since the Last Station Arc people complain about it

1. Agree
2. Its because people wants their class based system when they have tell us several times a ranker is well versed within all classes, and can do any class if needed, that and we've seen a lot of High ranker who literally puts a notable before(weak ass regulars) and after( chad ¨I put nukes to shame¨ High-rankers)

But let's not forget about Elpathion, dude really represented HR Light bearers in a high bar, im just waiting to see more about the Light Bearer Fug Elder: Sophia

 

[ElajRuengies]

1. Agree
2. Its because people wants their class based system when they have tell us several times a ranker is well versed within all classes, and can do any class if needed, that and we've seen a lot of High ranker who literally puts a notable before(weak ass regulars) and after( chad ¨I put nukes to shame¨ High-rankers)

But let's not forget about Elpathion, dude really represented HR Light bearers in a high bar, im just waiting to see more about the Light Bearer Fug Elder: Sophia

Evankhell had to go into close quarters combat and directly Akainu-Ace his insides in order to kill him, he single handedly stopped an attack that would've one-shot a Division Commander and several other Rankers with a fraction of the Lighthouses he originally had due to Evankhell burning them, and he also fought Base Kallavan at some point, according to Kallavan's flashbacks while the ship was blowing up. The man was a T-Posing force to be reckoned.

On the topic of Sophia and Lightbearers; while rereading the prologue for S2 for Maschenny reasons, I counted all the Lighthouses Repellista has in that mega shot (here), and there are at least 35 Lighthouses, not including the Opera or the Lighthouses that should logically be there due to the pattern but are off panel. This is comparable to Sophia Tan's (a FUG Elder and High Ranker) Hexagon Crystal, which uses at least 30. (In other words, unless Repellista is secretly a High Ranker pretending to be someone who hasn't climbed yet, the Opera is even more busted than we thought)

 

[Enryu_The_Red_Tower]

Yes, Elpathion really pose what a Light Bearer High Ranker is really capable of, don't forget, that attack that he blocked from Post-Clone White was comparable to that he used on Dorian Frog and forced Cheonhee to use her shields. Also, considering his ranking in the 4th Army Corp, he must be the strongest of the people Kallavan fought to turn into his subordinates, despite being Light Bearer, which is not really a very favorable position when it comes to one on one fight

Honestly, Sophia apparently controlled those 30 Lighthouses very casually, maybe she just used the amount needed to use her Hexagon Crystal and maybe she has even more Lighthouses, considering that Elpathion was 50, I don't think Sophia, who is apparently one of the strongest Light Bearers of FUG and likely comparable to Khel Hellam, have a smaller amount of Lighthouses than Elpathion.

 

[Enryu_The_Red_Tower]

Also, I hope that Baam does not invent to act as a savior or pious when he defeats Zahard in the future, lately I am a little tired of Shounen protagonists who decide to save opponents who hurt or kill those they care about because of the sad past of villain (forgetting their inhuman and genocidal actions) or other bullshits, but considering that ToG is not of the Shounen Jump, I think it's likely not to happen, since Baam's hatred for Zahard rivals or overcomes his hatred for White

Also, shouldn't we scale Post-Training/Last Station Arc Androssi and Post-3 Siblings Hoaqin (Last Station Arc) to Last Station Arc Baam in his Base or with the 1st Thorn? I know it sounds like a bold proposition, but listen to me, when Androssi says that it would be dangerous to Baam face Hoaqin, Baam himself does not deny that statement, and we know that Baam is the type who is not arrogant and does not underestimate his opponents power, and as we know, he prefer to deal with his opponents alone if possibly to do, but as we see, he leaves Hoaqin to fight Androssi instead of just took on Rachel, Yura and Hoaqin at the same

 

[ElajRuengies]

Yes, Elpathion really pose what a Light Bearer High Ranker is really capable of, don't forget, that attack that he blocked from Post-Clone White was comparable to that he used on Dorian Frog and forced Cheonhee to use her shields. Also, considering his ranking in the 4th Army Corp, he must be the strongest of the people Kallavan fought to turn into his subordinates, despite being Light Bearer, which is not really a very favorable position when it comes to one on one fight

Honestly yeah; Lightbearers in general can decide the outcome of a fight between teams/groups, even if the lightbearer present is only a regular. Which then begs the question; why TF did they have Elpathion fighting on the front lines and in proximity of Evankhell and not have him stay relatively behind while his Lighthouses did work scattered across the map? It's almost like the guy in charge wanted the 4th Squadron to be destroyed...

Honestly, Sophia apparently controlled those 30 Lighthouses very casually, maybe she just used the amount needed to use her Hexagon Crystal and maybe she has even more Lighthouses, considering that Elpathion was 50, I don't think Sophia, who is apparently one of the strongest Light Bearers of FUG and likely comparable to Khel Hellam, have a smaller amount of Lighthouses than Elpathion.

I mean, it doesn't say Sophia was a Blue Hole (granted, it didn't say what rank she was either), but considering how busted Khel Hellam is specifically, I wouldn't say people comparable to him is the standard for FUG Elders (Otherwise the FUG Elders would all be at the bare minimum as strong as a mid-end Slayer, which kinda defeats a bit of the weight a Slayer in FUG would have.)

With that being said, I can easily see her being stronger than Yuri w/ Green April just by the framing of the plot, so yeah, with almost no feats to speak of I can say that she should be around Elpathion's level at least, which definitely an achievement. (Remember when Yuri's Rose Shower was impressive and not the standard measuring stick for High Rankers?)

Also, I hope that Baam does not invent to act as a savior or pious when he defeats Zahard in the future, lately I am a little tired of Shounen protagonists who decide to save opponents who hurt or kill those they care about because of the sad past of villain (forgetting their inhuman and genocidal actions) or other bullshits, but considering that ToG is not of the Shounen Jump, I think it's likely not to happen, since Baam's hatred for Zahard rivals or overcomes his hatred for White

I mean, if what Rachel said about Bam being a monster is accurate, I highly doubt we'll have to worry about Bam being too merciful in the future...

Also, shouldn't we scale Post-Training/Last Station Arc Androssi and Post-3 Siblings Hoaqin (Last Station Arc) to Last Station Arc Baam in his Base or with the 1st Thorn? I know it sounds like a bold proposition, but listen to me, when Androssi says that it would be dangerous to Baam face Hoaqin, Baam himself does not deny that statement, and we know that Baam is the type who is not arrogant and does not underestimate his opponents power, and as we know, he prefer to deal with his opponents alone if possibly to do, but as we see, he leaves Hoaqin to fight Androssi instead of just took on Rachel, Yura and Hoaqin at the same

Yeah but Bam doesn't confirm the statement either, and he also was specifically going after Rachel for revenge, so fighting Hoaqin in general was likely just secondary on his mind. Hoaqin being scaled to Post Hidden Floor Endorsi is good enough I think

 

[Enryu_The_Red_Tower]

You know, SIU said that Baam is currently the only "Regular" who can challenge Rankers, but this is contradicted when Akryung managed to fight him head-on, who is also an Regular so to speak, but I think this can simply be resolved with a statement that Akryung is a Irregular or saying that he is as talented as Adori

 

[ElajRuengies]

You know, SIU said that Baam is currently the only "Regular" who can challenge Rankers, but this is contradicted when Akryung managed to fight him head-on, who is also an Regular so to speak, but I think this can simply be resolved with a statement that Akryung is a Irregular or saying that he is as talented as Adori

Well, to be fair it's not exactly certain what Akryung is (in terms of Regular/Irregular status) at the moment. Given that he can use the Shinwonryu, he could be an irregular, or there could be specific circumstances at play here like with the God of Guardians (who is somewhere around Ranker level coincidentally enough, given the statement that almost-Ranker Ha Chai is the weakest of Bam's trainers / teachers, which would include the GoG)

Also, Akryung got sliced in half by Bam's shinsoo loop technique when it hit, while Low-Level Test Ranker Pan just got pretty wounded.

Side Note: Can the terms for stamina be standardized or something? Because Base Bam's being "Extremely High" while others who should have comparable to superior stamina just being "High" is confusing

 

[Enryu_The_Red_Tower]

Side Note: Can the terms for stamina be standardized or something? Because Base Bam's being "Extremely High" while others who should have comparable to superior stamina just being "High" is confusing

Yes, they can be standardized. Also, if you want, you can fix it

Also, shouldn't Post-Revolution and Last Station Arc Baam versions have Power Absorption? As I recall, does he sort of "absorb" (by stabbing himself) a few stuffs and gain its powers (1st Thorn and Black March) or is that just a new way to transform from Baam? And is this different from what Baam did when Doom was forcibly trying to turn him into a Canine Man?

 

[ElajRuengies]

Yes, they can be standardized. Also, if you want, you can fix it

Fixed everything from High Rankers to FUG Regulars; will do the rest later

Also, shouldn't Post-Revolution and Last Station Arc Baam versions have Power Absorption? As I recall, does he sort of "absorb" (by stabbing himself) a few stuffs and gain its powers (1st Thorn and Black March) or is that just a new way to transform from Baam? And is this different from what Baam did when Doom was forcibly trying to turn him into a Canine Man?

While he does have the general Absorption ability, Bam does not have power absorption as Power Absorption leaves the victim without the absorbed ability. (Power stealing is a better title)

 

[Arceus0x]

imma just star re-reading tog. Maybe ill find sth for all yall idk

 

[ElajRuengies]

Done with stamina fix, also upgraded Elpathion to Likely 6-B

 

[ElajRuengies]

I remembered two notable feats, the first is the explosion created by the clash of Novick and Base Ran, the explosion was large enough to be seen from a distance from the island where the fight took place.

The calc is done here (first time doing an explosion calc); the mid end is what looks good to me considering that the high end would make Redan Ran stronger than Endorsi & Baragav

Side Note: Jeez I've done nearly as many TOG calcs as there are listed on the page...