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Touhou Project Conceptual Manipulation Downgrade

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conclude the thread before the opposition responds
afterall there's no official rules preventing this
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I'm a little busy so I won't be able to give a full answer, but one of the scans for Concept 1 is this one.

Names predate and created the whole reality.
@Theglassman12 & @Planck69 two staffs Rejected same thing for bleach as Type 3. I can tag the CRT. Also nowhere in the scan it states predates. Just like how Ichibe in bleach gave names to phenomena and things in SS here gods gave name to things in the world. Really don't see any independent concepts.
 
They didn’t predate reality according to that scan. Reality existed in a state of chaos, but it existed. This is Type 2 without more to it.
I am not sure about that. There is a character with same exact copy of name manipulation in Bleach. 4-5 staff consider that as type 3 concepts.

 
There is a character with same exact copy of name manipulation in Bleach.
What the character does and what they do are different:
Because being able to grant names for Zanpakutos or removing/erasing Yhwach’s name is only a type 3 concept he’s affecting since the names are tied to a specific object, not an overarching concept that governs existence.
Ichibei is far to limited in his ability, which is why it isn't type 2. If you effect the concept of a circle for the entire universe its type 2.

EDIT: Actually unless it hasn't been applied yet Ichibei is literally still Type 2. So the comparison would only work against you.
 
What the character does and what they do are different:

Ichibei is far to limited in his ability, which is why it isn't type 2. If you effect the concept of a circle for the entire universe its type 2.
But it's not really what scan says, it says that name has been assigned for each thing, it's not some single concept for all things in reality such as "concept of circle", which can change the circle all over reality but rather personal and specified for singular things as "names".
 
Can y'all ******* WAIT jfc

Don't post single ooc scans without explaining them. Names being type 1 goes much deeper than that. But that scan does show names created boundaries, which in term are concepts dictating all of existence and non-existence. In order to create something that then goes in to create something else, you must be able to predate and exist without it (otherwise, if names were bound to existence, they wouldn't be able to create existence since the lack of existence would render names nonexistent). IIRC we also give type 1 for concepts that created reality/existence from nothingness for this reason.
 
Can y'all ******* WAIT jfc

Don't post single ooc scans without explaining them. Names being type 1 goes much deeper than that. But that scan does show names created boundaries, which in term are concepts dictating all of existence and non-existence. In order to create something that then goes in to create something else, you must be able to predate and exist without it (otherwise, if names were bound to existence, they wouldn't be able to create existence since the lack of existence would render names nonexistent). IIRC we also give type 1 for concepts that created reality/existence from nothingness for this reason.
Fuji, stop being toxic, we are not derailing, we are discussing.
 
Can y'all ******* WAIT jfc

Don't post single ooc scans without explaining them. Names being type 1 goes much deeper than that. But that scan does show names created boundaries, which in term are concepts dictating all of existence and non-existence. In order to create something that then goes in to create something else, you must be able to predate and exist without it (otherwise, if names were bound to existence, they wouldn't be able to create existence since the lack of existence would render names nonexistent). IIRC we also give type 1 for concepts that created reality/existence from nothingness for this reason.
The border here seems to be just implying to typically a names nature to distinguish between objects when they are assigned with some name. If nothing will have name, then they won't be recognized as separate. A name merely governs and creates single object and distinguish them from rest as what a name should.
 
This is blatantly spite from the Anos supporters after the downgrades.

But besides, the argument is terribly familiar to one that was used against the Creation Trio back then when CM1 was suggested for them, with Dialga not qualifying for that as it is "just" the time of the multiverse, when the CT predated the multiverse and thus its actual space-time.
 
If a thread has been previously rejected or discussed and rejected, it may be the only thing that goes against the VSBW policies. However, since I do not see any evidence of this happening in this particular case, bringing up the poster's intentions is not relevant and could be seen as a distraction.
 
Don't mind me, I am just here to observe. And I am not sure how I could get notifications from certain threads without commenting on them. How exactly do I make it so that I get email notifications from certain threads? Do I just have to leave a comment on them or what?
 
Don't mind me, I am just here to observe. And I am not sure how I could get notifications from certain threads without commenting on them. How exactly do I make it so that I get email notifications from certain threads? Do I just have to leave a comment on them or what?
There is follow bottom above, you can click on it without sending any email notifications.
1e61cba616370ee64d9b32c2ccf12c80.png


But this is now derailing.
 
Well, it's not really a type 1 concept then, as one single name not governing some fundamental aspect of reality but just single object. Not to mention it's kinda look self contradictory by saying that in the start all things were mixed in chaos then suddenly says that to name smth is to create something from nothingness, nothingness in here seems to be standing for that thing not existing prior to giving them name as we know it after being named. Not smth to be taken literally out of context as that would be contradictory, it's Type 3.

In the beginning, nothing in this world had a name. It was a world in which all things were mixed together in chaos. However, the gods in those ancient times gave a name to every last thing, and so the orderly world we see today was born. When naming something, a new border is created that makes it recognizable as one thing. You could say that the power to name is the creation to produce the object from nothingness, clearly the same power as a god's. And because of the strength of this power, the things themselves remember their names. And that's why I can see those names in them
However all of names combined is undoubtedly type 2 concept.
 
Checked the thread. I don't see the word or something implying name predating anything.

Ultima reply back then still counts as this is still how current standard works. Nothing changed much. I don't see where anyone proved names are independent from the reality they govern.
Doesn't really seem like the Names preceded reality here. From what I can tell, the universe was just formed once the Gods allowed things to be distinguishable from one another, they are still particular and defined in relation to individual objects, especially since reality was formed at the same time as them, not after they were created.
 
Do not play dumb with me, he agreed later on after this.
My bad I didn't thought ultima agreed for this Reasoning
Yeah, but giving names is what made things in the universe distinguishable from each other. Giving names to thing is what created this divide in the first place.

And while yes reality and the concepts technically did appear at the same time, the causality of the thing was still concept -> reality. The concepts are the cause for reality's existence, not the opposite.
This is still type 3 for the reasons what Reina gave above but overall concepts of name is type 2.
 
Predating reality is not necessary, by the way.

Madoka Magica is Type 1 because of the law/concepts being what shapes reality and time itself, and those appeared after the multiverse, given that Madoka used said law to rebuild the multiverse on a conceptual level across all of eras.

Names here do the same, they shape reality in a similar manner as they do not merely just build it, but straight up reshaped it completely, implying they're not realiant on it.
 
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