Touhou Project Conceptual Manipulation Downgrade

[EldemadeDityjon]

I know people are gonna jump on me for this.

There is nothing in the profile or in the scans states Concepts in Touhou Project are independent from the reality they govern. From scans names only creates and destroys things and it's just type 3 concepts. Hence this should be Downgraded to CM type 3. This is just personal concepts where there is no proof for affecting this concept will affect the reality within the area of influence. This doesn't even covers type 2 concepts.

Conceptual Manipulation (Type 1; Her boundary manipulation can affect the fundamental boundaries between everything and the conceptual borders that exist between two things; it's been stated that without boundaries, everything would exist as a singular, massive object, not unlike the state that the world was in before Gods separated everything by giving names and concepts to them.[12]. The process of creating a spell card requires giving it a 'name' to define its form and power[13][14][15]. Yukari is also stated to be able to create new existences[16])

Anyone who has doubts regarding types can actually check it here only.

1. Independent Universal Concepts: Such concepts are completely independent from the part of reality they govern, except maybe of other concepts of this nature. These concepts shape all of reality within their area of influence and at whatever level that area exists in, and everything in it "participates" in these concepts. For example, a circular object is circular because it is "participating" in the concept of "circle-ness". In this way, the alteration of these concepts will change every object of the concept across all of their area of influence, while the opposite wouldn't affect the concept.

2. Dependent Concepts: Such concepts are abstract and govern all reality within their area of influence. These concepts shape everything, and changing them would either require the alteration of every object of the concept or, if manipulated directly, change all objects of the concept alongside the concept itself. These concepts, however, exist simultaneously with and are bound by the object of the concept. In this way, an abstract dependent concept can be destroyed by destroying all objects of the concept, restored by re-making an object of a previously existent concept, or changed by changing all objects of the concept across reality. This, however, does not qualify for this form of conceptual manipulation, and is rather treated as a by-product of another action akin to a "domino effect". This type of conceptual manipulation can only be obtained if the abstract concept itself is changed directly, and not by indirect methods. For example, destroying humanity and thus "ending the concept of humanity" would not qualify, while directly "ending the concept of humanity" and thus destroying humanity would qualify.

3. Lesser Fundamental Concepts: Concepts that don't meet the same standards as Type 1 or Type 2, such as personal concepts that continue to govern the object in question, merely on a more specific scale, or concepts whose nature is not elaborated upon. Case-by-case specifications and explanations are necessary for such concepts and examples, and they are likely not going to meet the same standards for abilities such as High-Godly regeneration that other concepts may. Conceptual manipulation of this type can be resisted by those who resist sufficiently similar abilities, even if the exact mechanics may differ.

Instead of attacking I hope we maintain civil debates. I will just close this thread if there is enough evidence for CM type 1 otherwise it's getting Downgraded.

 

[Dragonite007]

Cool, another Touhou CRT which will never get a conlusion.

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

Cool, another Touhou CRT which will never get a conlusion.

Don't worry I will ask Ant myself to tag staff no matter what this CM type 1 is clear cut wank as far as scans and explanation says. Anyway I will close this thread if there is enough evidence which can be used to replace it.

 

[Reiner04]

Ant is busy. Me neutral for now, you may have to ask touhou supporters on their walls for input.

 

[Milly_Rocking_Bandit]

Maou Gakuin vs Touhou is hilarious.

Anyways, I’ll remain neutral till backup arrives, but I don’t see what’s Type 1 about this, so much so I’m surprised it got accepted at all.

 

[ImmortalDread]

Cool, another Touhou CRT which will never get a conlusion.

3 staff members is enough tho (at least one staff member told me this, not sure if it is true), anyway the thread seems fair and has similar concept like one of my verses.

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

Anyways, I’ll remain neutral till backup arrives,

Ok

but I don’t see what’s Type 1 about this, so much so I’m surprised it got accepted at all.

Also Most of the Abilities in the profile lacks reference and scans.

I have some doubts regarding NEP and TD also if they don't have enough evidence to support current NEP and TD standards they are also getting nuked next.

 

[Deceived3596]

I'm sure this has nothing to do with the recent Maou Gakuin Downgrade thread that Fujiwara made...

Not at all...

Following.

 

[ImmortalDread]

I'm sure this has nothing to do with the recent Maou Gakuin Downgrade thread that Fujiwara made...

Not at all...

Following.

did anyone mention it? I don't remember

 

[Huesito88]

You didn't even put any scans or anything....

 

[ImmortalDread]

You didn't even put any scans or anything....

its downgrade thread, read the scans in the profile.

 

[Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara]

I will get to this after work, but names have direct confirmation of affecting concepts spread across all of reality, and predating reality (which is proof of being unbound from what they govern). This is ignoring the actual reasons names were ever accepted as type 1, nobody FRA anything yet.

Also this is obvious spite over the MG downgrades, lol

 

[ImmortalDread]

I will get to this after work, but names have direct confirmation of affecting concepts spread across all of reality, and predating reality (which is proof of being unbound from what they govern). This is ignoring the actual reasons names were ever accepted as type 1, nobody FRA anything yet.

Also this is obvious spite over the MG downgrades, lol

Mhm? all of reality is actually irrelevant, "reality" in the CM page refers nothing as "reality", rather as a thing that defines the object.

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

I will get to this after work, but names have direct confirmation of affecting concepts spread across all of reality, and predating reality (which is proof of being unbound from what they govern). This is ignoring the actual reasons names were ever accepted as type 1, nobody FRA anything yet.

Show me the scan I am not gonna buy trust me bro policy. Whatever scans listed in profile has no indication of concepts being independent from the reality they govern

Also this is obvious spite over the MG downgrades, lol

Stop bringing attention seeking attitude here. Only Focus on what is presented in OP.

 

[First_Witch]

Bre isnt even trying to hide the spite lmao.

 

[Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara]

Can you clowns read? Im at work, I'm just saying I'll give a full response later.

 

[Godsatoshi23]

I agree for now, by looking at profiles it doesn't looks like type 1 at all.

 

[Huesito88]

did anyone mention it? I don't remember

Yep they did someone asked Mad in a joking manner did your favorite verse get Conceptual Manipulation Type 1 for such reasons and Mad replied back something like, whataboutism aside no and insert short quick explanation why. Then everyone went back to the main discussion.

 

[ImmortalDread]

Yep they did someone asked Mad in a joking manner did your favorite verse get Conceptual Manipulation Type 1 for such reasons and Mad replied back something like, whataboutism aside no and insert short quick explanation why. Then everyone went back to the main discussion.

oh lol, I did not read the above comments, but it seems derailment.

 

[Reiner04]

If you'll are done with clowning each other then be on the topic, it's not about intents, it's about contents.

 

[The_Emperor4th]

Neutral. Waiting for rebuttals.

 

[Deceived3596]

I'm never done clowning around

 

[ImmortalDread]

Anyway, @EldemadeDityjon mind call staff members tho?

 

[OverlordDonnelly]

Pretty sure we were waiting to gather more stuff before eventually adding the metric fuckton of scans Touhou profiles currently need. However, this may be the push to get the more important ones on the page ASAP.

I'll be following, ofc

 

[Deceived3596]

Anyway, @EldemadeDityjon mind call staff members tho?

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

Anyway, @EldemadeDityjon mind call staff members tho?

Called some just gotta wait i guess. I will try to call DT wait. I don't know if he replies.

 

[Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara]

Called some just gotta wait i guess. I will try to call DT wait. I don't know if he replies.

DT doesn't bother with Touhou threads anymore.

 

[Qawsedf234]

Guess I'll wait on some counterpoints.

But are the moment the first block of words in the paragraph would be Type 2. The last two example are rather narrow and would default to Type 3.

But the who universal separation thing qualifies for Type 2 if nothing else.

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

Guess I'll wait on some counterpoints.

But are the moment the first block of words in the paragraph would be Type 2. The last two example are rather narrow and would default to Type 3.

But the who universal separation thing qualifies for Type 2 if nothing else.

Thanks for evaluating

Is this the one you are talking about that qualifies for CM type 2? There is no scan actually for this. I hope someone posts it.

Her boundary manipulation can affect the fundamental boundaries between everything and the conceptual borders that exist between two things; it's been stated that without boundaries, everything would exist as a singular, massive object, not unlike the state that the world was in before Gods separated everything by giving names and concepts to them.

 

[ImmortalDread]

DT doesn't bother with Touhou threads anymore.

Her input is still appreciated.

 

[Reiner04]

Her

Yes!

 

[Qawsedf234]

Is this the one you are talking about that qualifies for CM type 2?

Yes. It's a overly broad concept of separation that effects everything. It would be at least Type 2. Type 3 is something like the concept of Dave's specific pants existing rather than the universal concept of separation.

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

Yes. It's a overly broad concept of separation that effects everything. It would be at least Type 2. Type 3 is something like the concept of Dave's specific pants existing rather than the universal concept of separation.

Okay thanks for clarifying.

I will Concede on that then if the scans says the same. @Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara can you posts the scan for first part there is no scans available in the profile.

Snip.

 

[Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara]

What part of "I'm at work" do you people not understand? You asked me not to rush the MG thread, I think you can bear to wait 4 hours.

 

[TheGreatJedi13]

As I have said before
God's naming of reality and other concepts that was created even before reality would still be fine

but blanketing it to all spellcard simply because they can name them similarly to how God's named things into existing is suspiciously lax.

qawsedf already said the points i want to point out for the certain character who control boundaries in this verse so i agree with those

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

What part of "I'm at work" do you people not understand? You asked me not to rush the MG thread, I think you can bear to wait 4 hours.

I didn't said you send the scans now only. You can take your time no one is rushing. I just asked for you to send the scan. That's all. Don't make a big Scene. I may not be active when you active and vise versa so i am asking things when I am online.

 

[Braking]

Im here as moral support for touhou

 

[Braking]

Go team!

 

[ImmortalDread]

What part of "I'm at work" do you people not understand? You asked me not to rush the MG thread, I think you can bear to wait 4 hours.

I think he want to remind u, he never rushed it, at least this is how I understood.

 

[Shiroiyo]

I'm a little busy so I won't be able to give a full answer, but one of the scans for Concept 1 is this one.

Names predate and created the whole reality.