Topaz's Battle Party Tournament: Spiral of Pain vs Robbing Resets in a Flash

[Topaz404]

Round 16! Finally! I can cool it with the posting for a while lol
Obligatory
Fight takes place within the Iron Fortress (EBF5)

Team Spiral of Pain: 0

Team Robbing Resets in a Flash: 0

Incon: 0​

 

[Redite250]

Well, first move for the Devil would be Empathic Manip. to make both his enemies use their strongest attack on each other, I don't know if they have a counter for that.

 

[Topaz404]

I dont know about Henry, but i know Matt is going to start with Scan (Information Analysis), and Matt resists Empath Manip via resisting Berserk with certain gear. Despite the fact Matt's main weapon is a sword, he's got quite a lot of range with a few of his magical attacks

Whats O'Diablo and the God of Death have vs Sealing? Matt can literally shove them in a box and turn them into his summons, so even if they dont die, thats a wincon

 

[Redite250]

Whats O'Diablo and the God of Death have vs Sealing? Matt can literally shove them in a box and turn them into his summons, so even if they dont die, thats a wincon

Well it's a rule of the verse that creatures such as the Devil and GoD can't be commanded/controlled, no mind control ritual or effect works on them so I don't think that would work

 

[Topaz404]

Sealing isnt.....really mind control. Beings capture by the EBF5 party still retain free will and free thoughts- i actually dont really know how the Sealing works (as its literally just shove the monster in a box), but that....isnt really mind control.

Also, thats verse specific. Epic Battle Fantasy doesnt have a rule like that, the only uncapturable enemies either being plot important (like future party members) or something that makes zero sense (like the turrets in Iron Fortress)

Not even the final boss (literal eldritch horror that can easily wipe the game) is safe from the box

 

[Redite250]

So he just puts them in a box and they become summons? That would still count as being "commanded" which they're immune to by default, there are rituals that work kinda in the same way where the victim retains free will and such but they don't work on creatures

 

[Topaz404]

Huh, i see. Well, there is still the possibility that they could just be.....shoved into the boxes and not let out for the time that is takes to count as an Incap victory, but that just kinda seems impractical, eh, i dunno

Speaking of summons, Matt does have the Angel Mirror, which grants him the Enchanted status, which basically makes it that all magic attacks dealt to him do nothing, but more physical attacks do more. O'Diablo seems to be more magic based, though Death may cause problems for that

Oh wait, i just looked at Henry's profile, and while Reference doesnt have Causality Manip, it still has BFR in terms of punching those into alternate timelines. Would Spiral of Pain have a counter to that?

 

[Redite250]

Huh, i see. Well, there is still the possibility that they could just be.....shoved into the boxes and not let out for the time that is takes to count as an Incap victory, but that just kinda seems impractical, eh, i dunno

Speaking of summons, Matt does have the Angel Mirror, which grants him the Enchanted status, which basically makes it that all magic attacks dealt to him do nothing, but more physical attacks do more. O'Diablo seems to be more magic based, though Death may cause problems for that

Oh wait, i just looked at Henry's profile, and while Reference doesnt have Causality Manip, it still has BFR in terms of punching those into alternate timelines. Would Spiral of Pain have a counter to that?

Depending on what "magic" counts as I'm not sure if any attack by the Devil would count, as they're not really "magic"

Yeah if they get punched by reference that's a valid win con as they have no way to get back, but the Devil can also get Henry to attack Matt and since I don't think Henry has any resistance to that, the Devil can do it as much as he wants

 

[Topaz404]

Wouldnt see what would be stopping Matt from like- giving Henry equipment that would allow Henry to resist Empathic Manip, also, there's items/food items (mainly the Garlic) that can be used to cure Henry's madness (as that could count as Berserk/Confusion

Also summons like the Cutie Worm can also cure it as well, plus Bless (status) protects from bad status effects, so if Henry is Blessed, O'Diablo's big thing aint gonna work for a limited time, but thats enough time to get punched by Reference (and Matt can just.....apply it again lmao)

 

[Redite250]

Yeah but, what does Matt do when he gets punched by reference at the beginning of the fight?

 

[Topaz404]

Pocket Watch grants Matt Haste, which is basically speeding up his own time (by allowing two or more turns at once in game), so thats going to be a Speed Amp to dodge Reference, cure Henry's madness, Bless him, and then win

 

[Redite250]

Pocket Watch grants Matt Haste, which is basically speeding up his own time (by allowing two or more turns at once in game), so thats going to be a Speed Amp to dodge Reference, cure Henry's madness, Bless him, and then win

I'm pretty sure Reference is only visible to Henry and other Stand Spirit users

 

[Topaz404]

I dont think that rule applies to the Henry Stickmin verse specifically, because while Reference is.....well, a Jojo's reference, it always doesnt mean its 1:1

Matt has NPI anyways, so, even if he cant see Reference, he can still hurt it
Matt would also see Henry acting aggressive towards him anyways, so he would know something fishy is going on (and more or less attempt to Dispel/cure whatever is going on. Henry is still technically his teammate so Dispel would work)

 

[Psychomaster35]

By the rules of the tournament, Henry’s luck is restricted. Luckily for him, that means he’s just as lucky as others meaning he can never have unlucky moments. That being said, although both of the, seem to resist most of what Henry has, there is still the potential for Henry to possess one of them through Toppy so he can use their body to defeat the other. He’s even harder to kill by the fact that should he die, get knocked unconscious, get incapacitated, or get BFR’d, he can automatically retry back to an earlier point in time to do another option until he can finally get a path where he wins.

As for Matt, he can pretty much revive Henry when he dies through giving him coffee/espresso, and he has the ability to scan foes to learn their resistances and weaknesses so he knows what to use and whatnot to use. And if he dies, he can straight up redo the battle from the start thanks to the Player. Though, he can still be defeated if he's defeated by any other method outside of death as seen with the first Lance encounter in the fifth game where he was knocked out instead of killed.

I'm pretty sure Reference is only visible to Henry and other Stand Spirit users

Even though this is an obvious reference to JoJo, nothing suggests that Reference is invisible to others just like Stands in JoJo. I have no idea why that is there when it shouldn't be there. Also, didn't we clarify Reference was restricted?

 

[Topaz404]

By the rules of the tournament, Henry’s luck is restricted. Luckily for him, that means he’s just as lucky as others meaning he can never have unlucky moments. That being said, although both of the, seem to resist most of what Henry has, there is still the potential for Henry to possess one of them through Toppy so he can use their body to defeat the other. He’s even harder to kill by the fact that should he die, get knocked unconscious, get incapacitated, or get BFR’d, he can automatically retry back to an earlier point in time to do another option until he can finally get a path where he wins.

As for Matt, he can pretty much revive Henry when he dies through giving him coffee/espresso, and he has the ability to scan foes to learn their resistances and weaknesses so he knows what to use and whatnot to use. And if he dies, he can straight up redo the battle from the start thanks to the Player. Though, he can still be defeated if he's defeated by any other method outside of death as seen with the first Lance encounter in the fifth game where he was knocked out instead of killed.

Even though this is an obvious reference to JoJo, nothing suggests that Reference is invisible to others just like Stands in JoJo.

oh hey Psycho, was just kinda holding down the fort for ya. Mainly was mentioning whatever Matt had because im not as familiar as i used to be with Henry Stickmin, lol

 

[Psychomaster35]

What stuff is exactly restricted for the O Diablo and the God of Death? I know the immortalities (And presumably the madness hax) have to be restricted for being passive.

 

[Topaz404]

Mostly the passive Madness hax and immortality. GoD's whole time/age manip thing requires him to actually grab someone so that should be good-

 

[Psychomaster35]

Now that I see it, shouldn't Henry & Matt have the range advantage here given that by SBA, they start at 4 km?

 

[Topaz404]

Yeah everything i dont mention is SBA-

 

[Redite250]

Now that I see it, shouldn't Henry & Matt have the range advantage here given that by SBA, they start at 4 km?

Well that changes things quite a bit

Even though this is an obvious reference to JoJo, nothing suggests that Reference is invisible to others just like Stands in JoJo. I have no idea why that is there when it shouldn't be there. Also, didn't we clarify Reference was restricted?

I was just going by the profile, if so that should be removed

 

[Topaz404]

Oh yeah, my bad, i did forget that Reference was restricted. Well, that shouldnt matter much anyways considering O'Diablo and GoD can properly die thanks to their immortalities being restricted

 

[Psychomaster35]

In that case, it's very much likely that Henry can use stuff like earthbending and guns while Matt can use magic-based attacks (Limit breaks and summons especially) to deal with O Diablo and the God of Death quicker.

 

[Topaz404]

Yeah seems like the range advantage, the fact that they can just reset after death/failure, and the armada of stupid shit they can pull, seems like the thieves have it in the bag
(By the way, Henry's reset BS has a counter, yeh?)

 

[Psychomaster35]

(By the way, Henry's reset BS has a counter, yeh?)

The fact that in certain circumstances, it won't activate which would allow him to die for good as seen in 2 endings, yeah. But in both of those circumstances, he was only able to reset previously because he hasn't completed his goals yet. The retries never triggered during the endings of The Betrayed and Revenged because Henry died at the same time he succeeded in his goals.

 

[Topaz404]

The fact that in certain circumstances, it won't activate which would allow him to die for good as seen in 2 endings, yeah. But in both of those circumstances, he was only able to reset previously because he hasn't completed his goals yet. The retries never triggered during the endings of The Betrayed and Revenged because Henry died at the same time he succeeded in his goals.

So, it only works if he hasnt completed a goal, i see. Wouldnt one be able to Incap him in such a way, or use BFR to prevent the reset?

 

[Redite250]

With the range advantage things get kinda difficult, but they both can close the gap, the Devil with portals and GoD will constantly accelerate himself over time which will also make him more dangerous offensively. Both can also summon hundreds of creatures to help them, also having decent regeneration that can help them survive. If the GoD gets close to any opponent he will grab them and timelock them, the Devil can also turn any wound into a fatal one with his blood explosion ability

 

[Topaz404]

When it comes to summons, Matt isnt a slouch either, with most enemies in EBF5 being able to be captured and summoned in battles, including all the story mode bosses (except Lance/Neon Valkyrie), the Superbosses (except Neon Valhalla (idk why), Temple of Trials superbosses, God himself, and generally they are very good are clearing out hordes

God casually prepping a Spirit Bomb in 5 seconds to annihilate whatever Spiral of Pain summons

 

[Redite250]

Matt's summons are probably better tbh, but SoP also have some good ones like Spiral Reaper who has damage reduction which would help it tank attacks, and can most likely one shot with its hax. And Annihilation who has dura neg danmaku, altough I haven't published its profile yet for no particular reason so if you don't wanna count it

 

[Psychomaster35]

With the range advantage things get kinda difficult, but they both can close the gap, the Devil with portals and GoD will constantly accelerate himself over time which will also make him more dangerous offensively.

One of them only has a range of several meters while the other only has a range of tens of meters.

Both can also summon hundreds of creatures to help them, also having decent regeneration that can help them survive.

Matt also has summons as well, over a hundred of them. And Matt has had experience facing opponents with a similar amount of regeneration they have (In the form of Spirits and hydra-type dragons).

If the GoD gets close to any opponent he will grab them and timelock them, the Devil can also turn any wound into a fatal one with his blood explosion ability

Only Henry would be affected by the timelock, but not Matt due to his resistance to that. Not that it matters since Henry can retry. Also, blood attacks get countered by the fact that Matt can summon PHOENIX to cast the auto-revive status on both himself and Henry to automatically revive upon death.

 

[Redite250]

Only Henry would be affected by the timelock, but not Matt due to his resistance to that. Not that it matters since Henry can retry. Also, blood attacks get countered by the fact that Matt can summon PHOENIX to cast the auto-revive status on both himself and Henry to automatically revive upon death.

Does Matt resist all types of time manip? To be clear, the Timelock accelerates someone in time and I only saw resistance to time slow in his profile, though I could have missed it. Would being stuck in timelock count as a fail? What it does is accelerate the target in time so much that seconds feel like years, but they don't feel any hunger or anything, so it's not like Henry would die. If they do die or get close to death though, GoD can turn them into zombies to stop them from reviving

 

[Psychomaster35]

Does Matt resist all types of time manip? To be clear, the Timelock accelerates someone in time and I only saw resistance to time slow in his profile, though I could have missed it.

Resistance to Time Manipulation (Especially Time Stop) is essentially enough to cover all aspects. Even then, grabbing Matt would be difficult since the Bullet Heaven games showed him being very good at dodging danmaku.

Would being stuck in timelock count as a fail?

Like I said, Henry has still been able to retry from incapacitation (Especially in one of the CtM fails where the Chaos Containment Center froze time completely). In fact, some of these fails even activate before the attacks land on Henry.

 

[Redite250]

Like I said, Henry has still been able to retry from incapacitation (Especially in one of the CtM fails where the Chaos Containment Center froze time completely). In fact, some of these fails even activate before the attacks land on Henry.

Well if that's the case I don't think SoP have a counter for retries.

 

[Topaz404]

so, whats the consensus?

 

[Psychomaster35]

so, whats the consensus?

Henry and Matt are more likely to take this thanks to the range advantage and necessary counters to win

 

[Topaz404]

Yeah, i think i can agree with that. Dont think its gonna be easy, but hey-
guess ill go ahead and move them along?