Fezzih_007
He/Him- 7,706
- 2,873
What's the problem of that trought?
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Topaz Stats Equalization Tournament: Round 1: Dark Enchantress Cookie vs Son Goku (UM God Form) (2-5-3)
- Thread starter Topaz404
- Start date
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- Thread starter
- #42
Granted, i have no clue, i guess its just personal issues with the mind getting to me (the voices wont go away)
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Original message was made assuming another key was used
FRAs agreed with that message
Original message is made invalid
FRAs are, by extension, also made invalid
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- #44
Yeah, they explained it better. Just a bit of a crap storm, but hey, hopefully this makes things go a lil smoother
Fezzih_007
He/Him- 7,706
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So, i know that.
But the OP seems to say that the votes being Fra have another problem besides that.
Or i guess i nitpicking for no reason.
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- #46
Nah, i see no issues with having the FRA votes being nuked as well. They did stem from one big argument soooo
Fezzih_007
He/Him- 7,706
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I guess i overthink then.
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So Universe mission god form key is being used right?
Well then, this goku still has god ki which gives him resistance to Dark ki [which includes Transmutation, Space-Time manip, Law and physical manip, power null amd soul manip etc...] so at the start he resists Cookie's transmuatuon, he has Analytical prediction to dodge most of her attacks, and he has defensive RE to deal with at least most of her haxes and he can power null her too, he can also has bunch of useful summons such as All the eternal dragons, toki toki, all of his attacks will damage/reduce her stamina so the more she fights the more she will get exhausted, he can also use god bind to paralysis her, and can erase her with hakai [which he doesn't user often]. And if he feel cornered he can bust out UI to make him nigh unhittable, give him passive Stamina hax that sets tge opponents stamina to 1.
But i won't vote yet till i see more of cookie's wincons.
Well then, this goku still has god ki which gives him resistance to Dark ki [which includes Transmutation, Space-Time manip, Law and physical manip, power null amd soul manip etc...] so at the start he resists Cookie's transmuatuon, he has Analytical prediction to dodge most of her attacks, and he has defensive RE to deal with at least most of her haxes and he can power null her too, he can also has bunch of useful summons such as All the eternal dragons, toki toki, all of his attacks will damage/reduce her stamina so the more she fights the more she will get exhausted, he can also use god bind to paralysis her, and can erase her with hakai [which he doesn't user often]. And if he feel cornered he can bust out UI to make him nigh unhittable, give him passive Stamina hax that sets tge opponents stamina to 1.
But i won't vote yet till i see more of cookie's wincons.
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Yep, Universe Mission God Form
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I see. what are cookie's winocons again?
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It should be noted that any attack or strike from Goku will reduce her stamina to zero which can effect people with infinite stamina like Androids and, when reduced to zero, will cause DEC's abilities, powers, and being able to act to be effectively disabled. So even if DEC can still fight with her stamina at zero, she'll have to show that she can counter her powers and abilities being disabled.
Plus, there's the fact that Goku can summon characters who are vastly more haxed then he is like Tokitoki and his defensive RE will give him enough leeway to gradually adapt to her exotic skills
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Well goku already has teleportation, and has resistence to BFR/Teleportation and power null.
So if thats her wincon, then its...just not working.
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Technically Goku would still be able to RE against the things he doesn‘t have resistance to in this key; something to keep in mind.
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- #56
Im assuming thats because he's a Saiyan in general and thats their whole thing?
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No, because he is shown RE’ing the Universe Tree which passively has a time power, dark factor, and PoD aura with all the innate haxes. So, he would be able to RE to resist hax that he doesn’t have a resistance to in his current key.
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- #58
So in this key, he resists/RE's Time Power and PoD, but he doesnt have the offensive hax that stems form Time Power?
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He hasn’t RE’d it yet in this key, but he has the potential to since his next key does so. He doesn’t have any offensive hax stemming from TP in the UM key.
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- #60
So basically to be able to beat this Goku key is find some way to shut him down before he starts adapting to it?
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Yeah, otherwise he’ll just gain a resistance to most of her hax besides her resistance negation ones.
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- #62
Gonna be an interesting debate, assuming he wins, when he finds who his next opponent is going to be (i linked the main thread in this thread, which has the bracket as well. Feel free to take a look)
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I vote goku for the reasons i stated.
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- #64
Alrighty, then.
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- #66
Ill keep this in mind, but i wont be counting until arguments for DEC come up
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Back
Also Goku can't go UI in this key
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DEC also has an innate degree of RE herself based off her Black Magic; it's just not mentioned on the page. When Pure Vanilla Cookie blasted her with Crescent Moon Magic and began the sealing process, she reversed the effect that led to Pure Vanilla Cookie being sealed in an interdimensional void and not herself. Her body was destroyed in the resulting explosion however, but she just used an avatar of White Lily Cookie to circumvent this and just casually transforms back into Dark Enchantress Cookie later. She can likely do this with Goku as well, using Black Magic's Power Absorption to obtain whatever he does and resist it even while actively being affected by it
As White Lily Cookie possesses a Soul Jam just like other members of the Five, it's possible for her to create a Sonic Mania-esque virtual reality that she has domain over. As stated by Olive Cookie, "it's a world where everything exists the way Golden Cheese Cookie wants it". This domain can then be merged into the real world, allowing for DEC to render Goku unwilling to fight as Smoked Cheese Cookie did on a whim. She could already do this with the Darkwind Quiver that saps the morality of the victim, but she actually needs to hit Goku with the arrows that fire from it which is unlikely
DEC can also summon the Cookies of Darkness, one of which is Pomegranate Cookie. She is capable of affecting the Sacred Pomegranate Tree by stating that it is unable to resist her curse, with the Sacred Pomegranate Tree being enveloped in a magical barrier made by the Sugar Swan, the 4-D god tier of the verse that sees it as nothing but a picnic and is the progenitor of the Black Magic that Pomegranate Cookie uses. Pomegranate Cookie also corrupted the Sugar Swan itself for a period of time, and since Pomegranate Cookie admits many times that her powers are inferior to Dark Enchantress Cookie, Dark Enchantress Cookie should upscale from her feats
I'm not too sure if Goku is able to resist resistance negation and corruption on a 4-D scale, while being blasted by several hax effects by Dark Enchantress Cookie's Treasures and Pets at the beginning of the fight, while also being pulled into a pocket reality where DEC can remove his will to fight, with his powers actively being negated and copied by DEC's Power Absorption, while the Cookies of Darkness back Dark Enchantress Cookie up
Dark Enchantress Cookie has a passive resistance negation effect, which is activated upon using her first move
This is only necessarily useful against her opening move as that's the only really physical, dodge-able move she uses; her hax from Trasures and Pets are instant and oftentimes don't appear as an attack, just the effect of them occurring after the fact. It just happens
How fast is this RE compared to her other instant haxxes, like getting CM2 nuked by Continuum Cog?
How likely is Goku to summon them right at the start of the match? DEC's wincon is to defeat him before he REs everything, and I'm sure an in-character Goku would be going for martial arts first thing. Also Topaz said they'd restrict summoning those who use TIme Power
Irrelevant. Cookie Run characters can use all of their abilities at zero stamina, Dark Enchantress being no exception, as long as they are actively using them. The moment they stop using their hax they can't continue to fight, but DEC has several resurrection effects that regain stamina or, in the case of Thundersnow Yeti, freezing her stamina bar and preventing it from lowering or raising whatsoever
Her regeneration and avatar creation render this ineffective
Also Goku can't go UI in this key
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DEC also has an innate degree of RE herself based off her Black Magic; it's just not mentioned on the page. When Pure Vanilla Cookie blasted her with Crescent Moon Magic and began the sealing process, she reversed the effect that led to Pure Vanilla Cookie being sealed in an interdimensional void and not herself. Her body was destroyed in the resulting explosion however, but she just used an avatar of White Lily Cookie to circumvent this and just casually transforms back into Dark Enchantress Cookie later. She can likely do this with Goku as well, using Black Magic's Power Absorption to obtain whatever he does and resist it even while actively being affected by it
As White Lily Cookie possesses a Soul Jam just like other members of the Five, it's possible for her to create a Sonic Mania-esque virtual reality that she has domain over. As stated by Olive Cookie, "it's a world where everything exists the way Golden Cheese Cookie wants it". This domain can then be merged into the real world, allowing for DEC to render Goku unwilling to fight as Smoked Cheese Cookie did on a whim. She could already do this with the Darkwind Quiver that saps the morality of the victim, but she actually needs to hit Goku with the arrows that fire from it which is unlikely
DEC can also summon the Cookies of Darkness, one of which is Pomegranate Cookie. She is capable of affecting the Sacred Pomegranate Tree by stating that it is unable to resist her curse, with the Sacred Pomegranate Tree being enveloped in a magical barrier made by the Sugar Swan, the 4-D god tier of the verse that sees it as nothing but a picnic and is the progenitor of the Black Magic that Pomegranate Cookie uses. Pomegranate Cookie also corrupted the Sugar Swan itself for a period of time, and since Pomegranate Cookie admits many times that her powers are inferior to Dark Enchantress Cookie, Dark Enchantress Cookie should upscale from her feats
I'm not too sure if Goku is able to resist resistance negation and corruption on a 4-D scale, while being blasted by several hax effects by Dark Enchantress Cookie's Treasures and Pets at the beginning of the fight, while also being pulled into a pocket reality where DEC can remove his will to fight, with his powers actively being negated and copied by DEC's Power Absorption, while the Cookies of Darkness back Dark Enchantress Cookie up
Killerdrone123
He/Him- 2,062
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Voting goku for greatbanana reasons + his busted re
Vietthai96
He/Him- 10,238
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Goku resist Dark Ki which is 5D, he don't resist Resistance Negation, but idk if Resistance Negation can neg resistance that is higher D than the resistance neg. So CM2 nuke is Cookie only option it seem, from what you guys presented on the table
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I'll wait to comment on the matter at a later point today but I want to clarify that even with stats equal, CC Goku's resistances to Dark Ki and his ability to RE to shit like Dark Factor and Time Power are relevant in this fight because Dark Ki, Dark Factor, and Time Power are 5-D in potency and in range. That means DEC's resistance negation won't do much to Goku given the scale and potency of hax which he's resisted.
Also I can't say with certain in regards to how fast Goku's RE works, but Goku was able to resist and adapt to the Universe Tree's hax in a matter of seconds before he made that power his own. So I feel a bit confident in saying that CC Goku's RE should only takes seconds to activate when fighting DEC.
Also I can't say with certain in regards to how fast Goku's RE works, but Goku was able to resist and adapt to the Universe Tree's hax in a matter of seconds before he made that power his own. So I feel a bit confident in saying that CC Goku's RE should only takes seconds to activate when fighting DEC.
Vietthai96
He/Him- 10,238
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it fast but not instant, it take a short amount of time, like some seconds for him to experience and then adapt to it
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- Thread starter
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I mean, yeah, i did say everything but intelligence and skill was equalized. that should include dimensionality- so Goku with 5D stuff shouldnt matter (as like i said, its all equal at the end of the day)
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Yeah I assumed it was some seconds since it took Goku that long to adapt to the Universe Tree. Even if it's from another arc of the series, it shouldn't invalidate the speed of CC Goku's RE
Oliver_de_jesus
He/Him- 24,717
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In this case, DEC's Resistance Negation should do the job.
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The character is limited to what he has been shown to do.
From the profile, the only thing she denied resistance was for magnetic abilities, that's not very relevant.
Fast enough to not die to something that is CM1, Info 2 and EE.
If you were using it from canon, it would be martial arts.
But it's the game you're using.
When his incovation skills are enabled, it is the first thing he does when he can.
And this is where the effects of status come in, something that is in the profile.
When their stamina reaches 0, they will not be able to attack, defend or use skills or anything like that;
Hax from SDBH is almost all 5D, and I think the OP didn't think about that.
Also, for the hax layers thing, by the new standards, I think it has to be proven now in the form of accepted blogs or something. Like, there's a review thread now.
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I made sure to rectify that mistake, i clarified in a earlier message i am equalizing dimensionality as well
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Scan? And this is UM Goku?
Are there also scans for Goku using summons first-thing, like a statement or animation or something? Or is that just how people play the game efficiently? Considering that CC Goku is just canon Goku with a lot of extra hax
Stamina functions almost the exact same way in Cookie Run, with the only exception being that Cookies can postpone the latter effect by just continuing to use their hax. And if her stamina is physically frozen with Thundersnow Yeti's ice entirely at the beginning of the battle that won't happen. It isn't moved by attacks from obstacles, which lower a Cookie's stamina, or other effects that otherwise quicken or set stamina to specific integers.
How does this change things exactly? I'm confused on what to argue for here. Best case scenario, this gives her a wider array of things to absorb with her Power Absorption, whose defensive effects are activated as soon as she's attacked by the technique (as she was caught off-guard by Pure Vanilla Cookie's Crescent Moon Magic and didn't react to it until it was already attacking her, and retaliated with her own beam almost instantly). Or she just gets stomped because Goku has a 5D resistance to everything...
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