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Top Five Strongest Non-Smurfs for Every Tier 5: The Last of the Forum

The site doesn't classifiy Ainz as Tier 7, it classifies him as a Tier 8 that can use Tier 7 abilities

Because this list is for every tier, being on a tier normally is different, having/needing to use abilities to get there is different.

It doesn't matter if he can fight against Tier 7s with his Tier 7 magic, he wouldn't be able to if he didn't have it (assuming his hax gets resisted, which is why he's on this list in the first place)
 
Not really. It classifies him as a tier 7. You are entirely free to take out his Tier 7 tag or ask if fights can't be made for him with tier 7 people.

Uh... if his hax gets resisted, too bad for him I guess? I don't understand what that has to do. He simply got countered by his enemies' ability.

Your reasoning is honestly getting dumber by the second.
 
AnonymousBlank said:
Dude .... before it was a thread where people just wanted to do it a weird way with absurd restrictions. That's fine. I will bitch about it but it's just people wanting to do it a weird way. Now it's completely stupid. You have completely defeated the point of the tier list. Why restrict smurfs for being beyond someone's dimensional tier when you are just gonna say people can use higher tiers in lower tiers? Did your parents turn you upside down and pile drive your skull into the floor when you were a child?!?!?
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Because having tier attacks don't necessarily validate rule of this list. an 10-C character can use High 3-A attacks, both 3-D, no higher-d smurf ability involved, and he will be placed to 10-C, because he is not High 3-A, he is 10-C with High 3-A attacks, even if he fights and defeats High 3-As he isn't on that tier without his ability. Being there naturally and needing abilities, these two are different things. They didn't.
 
Them being different has literally nothing to do with them being able to fight in said tier.

Again, let's remove the stupid rule without any reason to exist.
 
LSirLancelotDuLacl said:
Not really. It classifies him as a tier 7. You are entirely free to take out his Tier 7 tag or ask if fights can't be made for him with tier 7 people.

Uh... if his hax gets resisted, too bad for him I guess? I don't understand what that has to do. He simply got countered by his enemies' ability.

Your reasoning is honestly getting dumber by the second.
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Look at his profile. Look good. What does it say? It says 7-B With Magic. It says 7-B with Perfect Warrior. Wht are these two? His abilities. Can he attain 7-B AP without these two? No. Is he 7-B? No. He is a 8-C/High-8-C with Magic and spells that grants him 7-B AP. Those tags are for his abilities that get him there. An 10-A character with 9-C gun would also be tagged "Tier 9" but are they? No.
 
The little fact this idiotic logic forgets is that tier is decided by AP.

It matters that he can use the AP. A gun doesn't derive any energy from you, nor does it make you directly stronger. You aren't 9-C, the gun is. Ainz is 7-B, because the spells uses his magic, which fuels his AP.

Anything else that isn't dumb logic? Or you know, actually supported by the site and not by your opinion.
 
Not that it matters, but as the origional creator of this chain of posts, I personally beleive that someone's lowest AP in a key should decide what their AP is.
 
LSirLancelotDuLacl said:
Them being different has literally nothing to do with them being able to fight in said tier.

Again, let's remove the stupid rule without any reason to exist.
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Them being able to fight in said tier have nothing to do with them being different. It's still different, he still needs his Magic to attain AP and isn't 7-B normally by himself. He's a Tier 8 character that uses Tier 7 Magic, therefore he should be placed at Tier 8. If his 7-B Magic directly uses his own eneegy output to give him 7-B he should be 7-B by himself, not Tier 8.
 
Them being different has nothing to do with them being able to fight in said tier.

If you can fight in a tier, you are in that tier. That is how it has always worked and been considered, otherwise we'd use striking strength to decide tiers.

And that is the literal encapsulation of the most stupid thing I have seen so far. Magic energy not translating into physical stuff is not a hard rule. Physical stuff doesn't decide the base tier.

Ricsi was right, this thread literally makes no sense.
 
Guys chill, but yeah, that is kinda dumb.

Lets see. Yeah, Ainz is physically way lower than his magic, but that should still not be the deciding factor. If a character can fully and consistently fight with higher "With ---" stats then he should be that stat. Ainz is physically what, i dunno, dosnt matter. But last i checked he can:

1. totally fight while only using his magic (He has no backdraws, conditions, nor is his magic a full energy spirit bomb that needs chargeup and leaves him half dead afterwards)

2. Can fully tank attacks in that tier (apperently, because his profile only reflects that.

A dude with a pistol only fulfils condition 1 temporay and 2 in no form. So a dude with a gun is a bad example.

Arpeggio ships are literally only in 7b/7A because of their equippment, outside of that their are normal ships with funky laser weapons. No one in their right mind would throw them at other characters in their "physical" tiering though, because that would artificially make them a stone wall
 
Am chill, but dumb logic is dumb no matter how you slice it. Is literally a decision made arbitrarily.

I would think there is a massively clear reason why we divide striking strength and attack potency. Scaling people to their physical tier only is dumb.
 
This really isn't going anywhere.

My point is if a character needs his abilities to get into that tier and isn't on that tier normally, this means he isn't on that tier normally and shouldn't be placed as such, even if he can fight and defeat those who are on that tier

And those who disagree say it doesn't matter if they need their abilities what matters is if they can fight on that tier or not

I would respond to this, in Ainz's case, Well there are High 3-A+ guys Ainz can defeat, despite not being on that tier. So it doesn't really matter if he can fight against 7-Bs with his Magic that gives him higher AP. He can fight against a lot of people. His capacity of fighting someone isn't about his AP.

That's just my point, I'm leaving for you to decide from now on. Good night
 
But Ainz can defeat them with hax that disregards durability or AP.

I am not talking about fighting them with hax, I am talking about being able to use magic, his main means of attack, and dealing damage even if isn't hax that disregards stats.

AP decides the tier. It doesn't matter the means, it is his own power. That is the simplest logic of the entire site. It doesn't matter if you can get one shotted due to lower dura, you are still that tier.

Base Tier is a nonexistent thing unless we are talking about people with transformations, as is saying that if his mana doesn't make him physically tier 7, he isn't tier 7. The moment you tell me a mage isn't tier 7 because his punches aren't, that's when you have abandoned anything even resembling basic logic.

When physical ability is the standard by which we decide tier, you'll have a point. Until then, it is a dumb standard with arbitrary justification.
 
Literally the only reason why Ainz has 8-C tier is due to his Striking Strength not being up to par to how he usually fights at without amping his striking strength up. His main powerset gives him 7-B AP, and his base durability is at 7-B. Ainz's 7-B tier isn't justified by any abilities that "boosts" his starting abilities up to that tier, he is already at that tier as his base abilities, so relegating him to 8-C tiers just because his base striking strength isn't up to par sounds strange.
 
According to his profile no he isn't. He's Tier 8 base and 7-B Magic and Perfect Warrior. Higher durability is irrelevant. As long as his base tier is 8-C he should be on Tier 8. Any Magic he throws at can be 7-B, but as long as his base is Tier 8 and needs to cast a magic to get 7-B AP he should be on tier 8.

You know what? Fine, He can be at Tier 7. I wish I never mentioned this in the first place. Way too much headache for such small thing, people being childish and uncool for something as unimportant as this.
 
But there's no base tier. I am not sure how that doesn't get through your skull.

You are simply deciding that the lower one must be his base. Physical abilities don't decide the tier, is as simple as that.

Apparently not agreeing with an arbitrary rule is childish now.
 
LSirLancelotDuLacl said:
But there's no base tier. I am not sure how that doesn't get through your skull.

You are simply deciding that the lower one must be his base. Physical abilities don't decide the tier, is as simple as that.

Apparently not agreeing with an arbitrary rule is childish now.
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There is a base tier in which characters are already placed that excludes stats they gain with their abilities.

The lower one is his physical capabilities, why would I choose anything else he gets with abilities?

Imagine a character like this: "10-A physically, 8-C with Fire Magic, High 8-C with Water Magic, 8-A with Lightning Magic"

Where would you place this character? This is just an example but it can be possible for characters to get different AP with different magic spells and abilities they have. That's why they are placed with their base tier.

Strawman fallacy. I didn't mean not agreeing with the rule is childish, but talking about someone's parents is.
 
And who decided that, actually? I asked this so many times it has gotten weary. Since when is that a thing? Decided by who? The only thing that decides your tier is being able to properly fight in it.

I would place them in all of those tiers if they can fight. Physical ability isn't first, or more important, or the base, or anything else as I have said a million times and you just keep repeating the same line. If he can't use his magic, then he's simply ******. "Abilities" aren't second fiddle, and is honestly just a very dumb proposition.

Then I apologize, but you left that very open ended. Sounded like you were referring to everyone.
 
Okay then. As I said earlier this will not go anywhere, the rule itself should be argued about and decided how it should be. I'm neutral on that and leaving to you, Ionliosite and the others on this thread. Now this is over I can finally take a break, cheers.
 
Fellas, if you just wanna scream I can close the thread right here and now, it's a click away and I would be entirely justified to do so, so keep your "getting it through your thick skull" talks in your own skulls and we'll be golden, that settlin' wit'cha? This applies to y'all, hint of dickery goin' down and I'm closin' this in a millisecond.

TL;DR Play nice
 
YungManzi said:
Been a very long time since I read Code: Breaker.
Is his power null passive?
Click to expand...
He can't be affected by special powers. And can absorb powers and life with thought (not a ton of range though).
 
Yeah, if you're only gonna take their physical strength for a tier, might as well change it to "Top 5 Strongest Characters For Every Striking Strength Class"
 
InfiniteSped said:
Yeah, if you're only gonna take their physical strength for a tier, might as well change it to "Top 5 Strongest Characters For Every Striking Strength Class"
Click to expand...
Don't we also have characters that are only a certain tier by amping their bodies with a certain power or technique? Mob is physically portrayed as only 10-C without amping himself with psychic energy yet we give him his tiers because he always fights at those levels and never with purely base statistics. A similar thing could be said for Ainz.
 
a question let's say that character A that is tier: 7A Bfr to character B another 7A to a sona that is in the same universe (rank 3A) as him but because in that soma there is a black hole that is layers To erase not only the version of that universe but of infinite universes of the opponent, would you consider yourself a smurf?
 
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