Top 15 Strongest Non-Smurfs for Every Tier Continuation 4.0

[Shadowslash125]

Then wouldn't that mean Kuuga can beat Ji Ning? Since his 6-C key doesn't resist anything Kuuga can do.

 

[ZeedKZ]

I didn't read his range, yeah, it's a possibility. If this is too debatable, creating a Versus Thread might be the way to go.

Regarding Daphne, even if we take her madness hacks in account (which is wrong), they lack range enough to be an actual threat. Kuuga just raises his hands and ignite her atoms away.

 

[Shadowslash125]

Also, Obito would resist Daphne's madness manipulation anyways.

 

[deonment]

I mean anyways, he resists, his practicing of the Nuwa Visualization technique increases the potency of both his mind and soul (as they are one and the same) increases his defenses in regards to both, and so he just thinks and destroys Kuuga's soul

 

[Shadowslash125]

Wouldn't just be mind and soul manipulation going hand in hand? That won't really be much against the OA, let alone even get near Kuuga before Ji Ning burns into a crisp.

 

[ZeedKZ]

I mean anyways, he resists, his practicing of the Nuwa Visualization technique increases the potency of both his mind and soul (as they are one and the same) increases his defenses in regards to both, and so he just thinks and destroys Kuuga's soul

Issue is, under SBA conditions, Ji Ning lacks range enough to destroy his soul over a distance of 4 km. Kuuga's abilities massively outranges Ji Ning's.

 

[deonment]

Wouldn't just be mind and soul manipulation going hand in hand? That won't really be much against the OA, let alone even get near Kuuga before Ji Ning burns into a crisp.

1)Overwhelming aura doesn't mean much considering how it only applies the effect attached to the aura (in this case fear manip)
2)Why would he start with that against a visibly human opponent

 

[ZeedKZ]

I didn't understood the first point, but for the second, the aura is passive.

 

[Shadowslash125]

Overwhelming aura doesn't mean much considering how it only applies the effect attached to the aura (in this case fear manip)

I've already showed you the scan that not only was Kuuga affected by the fear manip, it also weakened him to the point that he forcibly reverted to a weaker form before being forcibly detransformed and collapsing, at which Kuuga himself described it as 'crushing'. There's a reason why it's OA + Fear hax, not Fear Hax via OA. And it's passive too.

Why would he start with that against a visibly human opponent

Not only does SBA consider each other to bring each other severe harm and that losing the matchup may bring consequences, Kuuga himself being in Ultimate Form makes it known that shit is real and the plasma ignition is valid.

 

[deonment]

I've already showed you the scan that not only was Kuuga affected by the fear manip, it also weakened him to the point that he forcibly reverted to a weaker form before being forcibly detransformed and collapsing, at which Kuuga himself described it as 'crushing'. There's a reason why it's OA + Fear hax, not Fear Hax via OA. And it's passive too.

Read the aura page, overwhelming aura on its own does nothing, and a "crushing" aura isn't new to cultivators, so all that's relevant here is the fear manip, which is resisted, esp since its from killing intent

Not only does SBA consider each other to bring each other severe harm and that losing the matchup may bring consequences, Kuuga himself being in Ultimate Form makes it known that shit is real and the plasma ignition is valid.

That doesn't mean he will start with it, SBA makes the characters willing to kill, but it doesn't change who they are or what they will start with

 

[ZeedKZ]

Read the aura page, overwhelming aura on its own does nothing, and a "crushing" aura isn't new to cultivators, so all that's relevant here is the fear manip, which is resisted, esp since its from killing intent

If it does not, then it wouldn't have its own section on the aura article.

Overwhelming – An aura which causes a variety of negative effects on the enemy. Effects range from weakness to unconsciousness to death (i.e., can kill by aura alone).

The crushing effects derivates from Yusuke's own statement of feeling crushed by Daguva's presence, enough to revert him to his weakest form. And Ji Ning has no resistance to fear manipulation.

That doesn't mean he will start with it, SBA makes the characters willing to kill, but it doesn't change who they are or what they will start with

Kuuga's literal first move when he achieved Ultimate was using the ignition ability.

 

[Shadowslash125]

Read the aura page, overwhelming aura on its own does nothing, and a "crushing" aura isn't new to cultivators, so all that's relevant here is the fear manip, which is resisted, esp since its from killing intent

That doesn't mean he will start with it, SBA makes the characters willing to kill, but it doesn't change who they are or what they will start with

Here's the scan again for your first point.

Here's the scan for your second point. This is literally his starting move.

 

[deonment]

Kuuga's literal first move when he achieved Ultimate was using the ignition ability.

Here's the scan for your second point. This is literally his starting move.

somebody starting with something once (even if it is the only time they have access to it), does not make it a starting move, they have to show that they use it consistently at the start of every fight (or have a reason for not starting with it in a fight they don't)

The crushing effects derivates from Yusuke's own statement of feeling crushed by Daguva's presence, enough to revert him to his weakest form. And Ji Ning has no resistance to fear manipulation.

Overwhelming aura literally does nothing on its own, its a vector through which other stuff is applied rather than a hax unto itself (hell this is less overwhelming and more fear-inducing, because a feeling of being crushed due to fear manip is something common across fiction)
Yeah and resistance to that stuff is wrapped up into the general soul/mind resistance, you resist that shit in verse through having a strong enough soul

 

[ZeedKZ]

somebody starting with something once (even if it is the only time they have access to it), does not make it a starting move, they have to show that they use it consistently at the start of every fight (or have a reason for not starting with it in a fight they don't)

????

Kuuga has literally one appearance in that form within the whole series, it is his first move against someone he has the goal of killing. It's Occam's razor, there is nothing that implies that he does not start with that move.

Overwhelming aura literally does nothing on its own, its a vector through which other stuff is applied rather than a hax unto itself (hell this is less overwhelming and more fear-inducing, because a feeling of being crushed due to fear manip is something common across fiction)

Then do a revision to remove that section from the Aura article if it truly does nothing as you mention. Being in fear and being "crushed" are both massively different feelings as one can be "crushed" without the influence of fear (as Godai himself did to some degree). One or two fictional works portraying them as the same is meaningless here.

Yeah and resistance to that stuff is wrapped up into the general soul/mind resistance, you resist that shit in verse through having a strong enough soul

I've seen nothing within his profile close to confirming your statement. You can resist having your soul and mind manipulated in X contexts, it does not gives you resistance to fear hacks unless it is explicitely shown. We do not give every character that resists reality warping a resistance to every single ability of the wiki just because they are sub-types of that power.

 

[ZeedKZ]

Can Kuuga survive layered soul destruction?

I never bothered to add Ning to 6C but he should be somewhere here (especially cause he defeated Obito twice already last year, but I am not interested on redoing it again).

Regardless. If he defeated Obito (who defeats Kuuga, as it was agreed on), then place him above both. Although I'm not that convinced.

 

[GoldenScorpions]

I nominate Puk Puck for both #14th 7-C, and #11th High 7-C.
For context, she passively brainwashes anyone who looks at her or hears her voice. But the 7-C above her, Hollow, resists mind manipulation, and the High 7-C above her, Erma, appears to resist sight-based mind manipulation.

Sorry for the bump, but you missed this.

Also, the link for Hollow (7-C #13, and Low 7-C #13) is broken. The correct profile link is this.

 

[Nicetoderp]

somebody starting with something once (even if it is the only time they have access to it), does not make it a starting move, they have to show that they use it consistently at the start of every fight (or have a reason for not starting with it in a fight they don't)

That's...a weird statement to make. Kuuga going into that form in the first place mean he's going for the kill no if or but, and the easiest way to kill someone was, you guess it, raise his hand at someone else.

 

[DavidTPPM]

Okhwang got a profile rework so he should be usable for the list now. He should go at least for number 10 above Garou in 4-A for now, I'll see if he gets any higher than that.

 

[Fezzih_007]

Uhhh why is Daphne above Obito?

Daphne vs Obito (Top 10 strongest non-smurf) Re:Zero vs Naruto

Tobi vs Witch of Gluttony SBA Both are tier 6C

vsbattles.com

 

[Fezzih_007]

As for Daphne, her madness manip still seems to be on her profile despite a crt with Celestial_Pegasus and Dereck agreeing to this. For the moment, we are unsure whether to just put her in the list of opponents Kuuga can beat or make a thread for this matchup.

Someone made a CRT and add It back in, trought I still disagree with her having.

 

[Shadowslash125]

Daphne vs Obito (Top 10 strongest non-smurf) Re:Zero vs Naruto

Tobi vs Witch of Gluttony SBA Both are tier 6C

vsbattles.com

It doesn't really seem that the match incorporated Obito's Edo Jinchurikis that are automatically with him at all times, which was ultimately what did Kuuga in to being below him due to being well 5 undead shinobis with tailed beasts by his side.
The other problem is that Kuuga actually defeats Daphne in this case in part due to better and more potent hax, muddying up the positioning.

 

[deonment]

Then do a revision to remove that section from the Aura article if it truly does nothing as you mention. Being in fear and being "crushed" are both massively different feelings as one can be "crushed" without the influence of fear (as Godai himself did to some degree). One or two fictional works portraying them as the same is meaningless here.

I've seen nothing within his profile close to confirming your statement. You can resist having your soul and mind manipulated in X contexts, it does not gives you resistance to fear hacks unless it is explicitely shown. We do not give every character that resists reality warping a resistance to every single ability of the wiki just because they are sub-types of that power.

Lemme just

Ning stared at the distant, black-clothed figure. His swords were in his hands, and he was incomparably cautious, because the distant man, when walking over, gave off an invisible pressure…the tyrannical aura which only a Xiantian Fiendgod gave off. Clearly, the man had already activated the divine power in his body. Once his power was fully activated, he would attack.

For the overwhelming/crushing bit

Those who had committed grave sins would naturally emanate a heart-shaking evil aura. But the aura of sin around the cloth banner was actually so strong, it was visible to the naked eye. This was simply astonishing.

The coffin immediately opened, and a heart-trembling aura emanated forth. A large paw, covered with black fur, grabbed the sides of the coffin, and then sat up. This was a black-furred zombie which had glowing green eyes.

For the fear manip bit, as Ning fought the zombie as well as the person who was using the banner and was unaffected by both these auras

Kuuga has literally one appearance in that form within the whole series, it is his first move against someone he has the goal of killing. It's Occam's razor, there is nothing that implies that he does not start with that move.

Sadly however that is not how it works, we require a character to consistently show usage of X ability or technique before we say that it is their starting move in character

 

[Shadowslash125]

Someone made a CRT and add It back in, trought I still disagree with her having.

I've only watched Re-Zero season one and even then it was on airing so I do have to take the crt's word for it due to my inexperience with it.

 

[Nicetoderp]

Sadly however that is not how it works, we require a character to consistently show usage of X ability or technique before we say that it is their starting move in character

And it is consistently his first move then because it's his first appearance, and most consistent first move for his opponent who have the same abilities as Kuuga, lit his victim on fire.

 

[ZeedKZ]

Lemme just

For the overwhelming/crushing bit

So now you agree that it does something, huh? Regardless if that is right or not, he still lacks resistance to that in his profile. Add that, and we'll be cool.

For the fear manip bit, as Ning fought the zombie as well as the person who was using the banner and was unaffected by both these auras

I haven't seen anything close to fear manipulation in there.

Sadly however that is not how it works, we require a character to consistently show usage of X ability or technique before we say that it is their starting move in character

It is how it works. Occam's razor again. There is absolutely nothing you can't do to disprove that he does not use it as an starting move. You have to prove yourself, based on every single appearence within his settling (which curiously, it only has one solid appearance) that he does not. It is absolutely nonsensical and fallacious to disprove his immediate use of the ignition ability to claim that he never uses it as starting move when that is what he literally does.

 

[ZeedKZ]

Imagine achieving a form that you only used it once, and immediately use your best-shot ability against someone you want to kill, only for an individual who has zero knowledge about you to claim that you cannot start with a move that is your starting move.

???

 

[Rakih_Elyan]

Deon is getting cooked lmao.

 

[Nicetoderp]

For the fear manip bit, as Ning fought the zombie as well as the person who was using the banner and was unaffected by both these auras

Also... maybe I'm missing some context? The fear manip seems...weak? Do these zombies make people who don't resist fear froze up on the spot? Maybe just squirm on the floor?

Daguva was able to instantly able to unnerved Kuuga by being god-know where and instantly knocked Kuuga out of Pegasus into Growing form via sensing him.

To make it easier to visualize, this is basically someone knocking Goku out of Super Saiyan to base form via aura.

 

[Shadowslash125]

Also JI Ning's actual fear manip resistance wouldn't be at play until his high 6-c key, which has an infinitely better showing of it than whatever you have said in this thread.

 

[deonment]

Also... maybe I'm missing some context? The fear manip seems...weak? Do these zombies make people who don't resist fear froze up on the spot? Maybe just squirm on the floor?

Daguva was able to instantly able to unnerved Kuuga by being god-know where and instantly knocked Kuuga out of Pegasus into Growing form via sensing him.

To make it easier to visualize, this is basically someone knocking Goku out of Super Saiyan to base form via aura.

There's more feats, I would just rather not have to go control + F'ing through an obscene amount of pages to find even more

 

[XDragnoir]

In the scan itself, the aura was already making Kuuga unnerved despite Daguva (the guy who have the same aura as Kuuga) doesn't even seem to be in the same general vicinity, after he transformed into Pegasus form, which boost his perceptions of everything to at least 2 kilometer range, and fully sensing Daguva does he get the full effect of his aura.

So while it might not be kilometer long, it certainly covers a lot more range if we took Pegasus perception amps into consideration.

Sure, but that's not what I was talking about.

Any range feat the aura itself has is fair game, the problem raises when trying to cross scale the range of different abilities.

Every ability from Ultimate Kuuga has 5-B range, the whole deal about that form is causing the Ultimate Darkness throughout the entire world and destroy it.

Is there a scene where he affects the entire surface of the planet in that form then? From what I got this aura thing is passive, so it must have happened.

Being in fear and being "crushed" are both massively different feelings as one can be "crushed" without the influence of fear (as Godai himself did to some degree).

After watching the scene in his profile, it's said he "felt like being crushed", unless he got literally pinned to the flor or something like that, this is a simile, not a literal statement.

Anyway, Ning's mind is part of his soul, has Kuuga ever showcased the ability to affect souls/ghosts?

 

[ZeedKZ]

Is there a scene where he affects the entire surface of the planet in that form then? From what I got this aura thing is passive, so it must have happened.

All statements sadly. The Ultimate Darkness was an event that could destroy the world, which is caused when either Daguva kills Kuuga or Kuuga becomes evil through the Ultimate Form. He can also manipulate plasma everywhere from the atmosphere.

After watching the scene in his profile, it's said he "felt like being crushed", unless he got literally pinned to the flor or something like that, this is a simile, not a literal statement.

The "crushing" isn't literal, gravity is not wrestling against him, it overwhelms the target with killer intent, Yusuke was exhausted and weakened enough to revert from his Pegasus Form, to his Growing Form, then to his civilian form. Granted, it did made him succumb to the ground.

Anyway, Ning's mind is part of his soul, has Kuuga ever showcased the ability to affect souls/ghosts?

No.

 

[Nicetoderp]

After watching the scene in his profile, it's said he "felt like being crushed", unless he got literally pinned to the flor or something like that, this is a simile, not a literal statement.

This is easily answered by the fact that Kuuga doesn't enter Growing form unless Kuuga starts taking severe damage. So Aura crushing being literal is not far-fetch at all. So Kuuga HAVE to take damage from just sensing Daguva.

"Anyway, Ning's mind is part of his soul, has Kuuga ever showcased the ability to affect souls/ghosts?"

I don't see that anywhere on his first key. Is it explained somewhere? Is it stated somewhere that to interacted with the mind, you need to interact with the soul?

 

[XDragnoir]

All statements sadly. The Ultimate Darkness was an event that could destroy the world, which is caused when either Daguva kills Kuuga or Kuuga becomes evil through the Ultimate Form. He can also manipulate plasma everywhere from the atmosphere.

None of the statements seem to imply his fear aura would cover the whole planet, unless I missed something, it only talks destroying the world which is just an AP thing, it doesn't really have anything to do with having planetary range from what you've shown.

That plasma isn't the source of his fear aura, correct?

The "crushing" isn't literal, gravity is not wrestling against him, it overwhelms the target with killer intent, Yusuke was exhausted and weakened enough to revert from his Pegasus Form, to his Growing Form, then to his civilian form.

I mean... what's it supposed to even do to Ning then? There isn't a form that he could revert to and that guy is clearly still able to act even under its influence.

Or well, if it can't affect Ning's soul then he'd just ignore it anyway.

This is easily answer by the fact that Kuuga doesn't enter Growing form, unless Kuuga star taking severe damage. So Aura crushing being literal are not far-fetch at all. So Kuuga HAVE to take damage from just sensing Daguva.

What? The video Zeed sent above doesn't even imply there was physical damage happening, only mental fatigue, Kuuga (or whoever is the character there) even reverted to his human form and didn't start to get bruised from the pressure or anything, what you're saying simply isn't supported.

 

[Shadowslash125]

What? The video Zeed sent above doesn't even imply there was physical damage happening, only mental fatigue, Kuuga (or whoever is the character there) even reverted to his human form and didn't start to get bruised from the pressure or anything, what you're saying simply isn't supported.

Not exactly physical damage per se, exhaustion can also do him in just like that. And it takes a whole lot to do that to someone with such a high stamina like him. Even then, it doesn't even take long for him to just detransform from the intensity entirely after reverting back to his weakest form.

 

[ZeedKZ]

None of the statements seem to imply his fear aura would cover the whole planet, unless I missed something, it only talks destroying the world which is just an AP thing, it doesn't really have anything to do with having planetary range from what you've shown.

The Ultimate Darkness (the idea that Kuuga derives his power from) would cover the whole planet, it is the reason of why he has a 5-B rating as well. If it wasn't through that, then Ultimate Form wouldn't be compatible to cause its effects. Plus we see a peak in Zi-O that Daguva utilizes his Ultimate Darkness by covering the area with dark clouds as people get in despair (a piece that isn't with me for now). Both Daguva and Kuuga draws their power from the Ultimate Darkness, hence why their range is listed outright as it is.

That plasma isn't the source of his fear aura, correct?

It answers your first question. It is only one of his supernatural abilities, which are all categorized in the same type of abilities.

I mean... what's it supposed to even do to Ning then? There isn't a form that he could revert to and that guy is clearly still able to act even under its influence.

Or well, if it can't affect Ning's soul then he'd just ignore it anyway.

He has no resistance to Overwhelming Aura or Fear Manipulation, it reverted Godai because that what happens when he is weakened. Plus Yusuke being able to act is more of a tolerance rather than an anti-feat for Daguva.

 

[Nicetoderp]

Or well, if it can't affect Ning's soul then he'd just ignore it anyway.

Maybe I'm just blind.

But I don't see Ji Ning explanation for his mind being a part of his soul anywhere, not in his first key at least.

And is it stated you specifically need to interact with the soul to interact with the mind?

 

[XDragnoir]

The Ultimate Darkness (the idea that Kuuga derives his power from) would cover the whole planet, it is the reason of why he has a 5-B rating as well. If it wasn't through that, then Ultimate Form wouldn't be compatible to cause its effects. Plus we see a peak in Zi-O that Daguva utilizes his Ultimate Darkness by covering the area with dark clouds as people get in despair (a piece that isn't with me for now). Both Daguva and Kuuga draws their power from the Ultimate Darkness, hence why their range is listed outright as it is.

Sure, his range with the dark clouds may be planetary, I am talking specifically about the fear aura.

Again, the problem is trying to cross scale the range of each ability when there isn't direct evidence of such a thing.

It answers your first question. It is only one of his supernatural abilities, which are all categorized in the same type of abilities.

The way you wrote this is pretty confusing, but I think I got it.

He has no resistance to Overwhelming Aura or Fear Manipulation, it reverted Godai because that what happens when he is weakened. Plus Yusuke being able to act is more of a tolerance rather than an anti-feat for Daguva.

He doesn't need to resist it if the ability can't affect him to begin with... and he should have resistance to it anyway, Dao-Heart levels give the same resistances in all levels, it's just that specific abilities only appeared at later points.

 

[XDragnoir]

Maybe I'm just blind.

But I don't see Ji Ning explanation for his mind being a part of his soul anywhere, not in his first key at least.

And is it stated you specifically need to interact with the soul to interact with the mind?

Desolate Era CRT: Soul, Mind and Dao Layers

Introduction This is a general revision to tackle hax layers, the unity of mind and soul, as well as the nature of the soul in the setting of the Daos. Unity of the Mind and Soul The soul and mind are indistinct in nature and function, which can be seen with the Nuwa Visualisation Technique...

vsbattles.com

 

[ZeedKZ]

Sure, his range with the dark clouds may be planetary, I am talking specifically about the fear aura.

Again, the problem is trying to cross scale the range of each ability when there isn't direct evidence of such a thing.

Every power of his draws from the Ultimate Darkness, and that's all pretty much all of it. The aura only exists because of the Ultimate Darkness' influence, and under the current conditions of the profile, it would reach that range.

But it's not like the aura makes a true difference considering under SBA conditions, Ji Ning still lacks range to affect Kuuga with his soul hacks.

The way you wrote this is pretty confusing, but I think I got it.

My bad, I meant that there is a set of "supernatural abilities" within both Kuuga and Daguva's arsenal, and the ignition is one of them. They are implied to have immeasurable supernatural abilities of the same set from this ignition.

He doesn't need to resist it if the ability can't affect him to begin with... and he should have resistance to it anyway, Dao-Heart levels give the same resistances in all levels, it's just that specific abilities only appeared at later points.

I haven't seen any reasoning that it can't. And the list only takes what the current profiles uses regardless if it is outdated or not, hence why Daphne is still above Obito even though her madness manipulation was supposed to be removed long ago.

Desolate Era CRT: Soul, Mind and Dao Layers

Introduction This is a general revision to tackle hax layers, the unity of mind and soul, as well as the nature of the soul in the setting of the Daos. Unity of the Mind and Soul The soul and mind are indistinct in nature and function, which can be seen with the Nuwa Visualisation Technique...

vsbattles.com

The profile doesn't make a single mention of that. Not questioning the information itself, but Ji Ning should at least a Unconventional Resistance to Mind/Soul Manipulation in that case, specially when it seems to be layered.