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Top 10 Strongest Non-Smurfs for every tier continued (again)

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Propellus said:
Can't you just take them out with just basic hax alone without necessarily needing to have anything to do with planes to physically even harm them?
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Nope, that hax would need to affect them on three planes of reality simultaneously in order for it to do anything to them
 
Basically guys like the stone golem have an existence that is split across multiple planes simultaneously and thus cant be harmed by anything that isnt able to hit them in all three planes simultaneously

Think JOJO stands but more untouchable
 
I'm assuming you need to physically be the tier you're on the list for like in the other smurf thread and Reaper also said you had to be so I'm gonna trust him on that so I'm just gonna bring up a few who have some issues:
  • Nono in 4-C has unknown Striking Strength and Durability in that tier
  • Balancer in High 4-C and 4-B has unknown stats for Striking Strength and Durability
  • HIM in Low 4-C straight up doesn't even have a single consistent stat for his physicals
If you don't have to physically be that tier to be on the list yeah just ignore this then.
 
AbaddonTheDisappointment said:
I'm assuming you need to physically be the tier you're on the list for like in the other smurf thread and Reaper also said you had to be so I'm gonna trust him on that so I'm just gonna bring up a few who have some issues:
  • Nono in 4-C has unknown Striking Strength and Durability in that tier
  • Balancer in High 4-C and 4-B has unknown stats for Striking Strength and Durability
  • HIM in Low 4-C straight up doesn't even have a single consistent stat for his physicals
If you don't have to physically be that tier to be on the list yeah just ignore this then.
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You don't. As long as your tier matches, it isn't from Environmental Destruction or a weapon or the like, and you don’t have any smurf ratings or abilities, then you apply.
 
azontr said:
...

Okay so whose right, then. If you don't have to be physically the tier to qualify for the tier, then why can't she qualify.
Click to expand...
From the OG thread
Only the base stats are considered (I.E. if a character has a High 3-A technique but is only 9-A by itself, then the character will only count for 9-A and not for High 3-A).
Click to expand...
So I'm assuming you don't have to be physically that tier but it can't be something specifically tied to an ability
 
AbaddonTheDisappointment said:
From the OG thread

So I'm assuming you don't have to be physically that tier but it can't be something specifically tied to an ability
Click to expand...
Okay but if it can't be tied to an ability then how does that rule even work. People who aren't physically [Insert tier] are usually that tier through a weapon or ability.
 
Tatsumi504 said:
Okay, not even going to touch the D&D guys. What about owari no seraph? Which characters are being suggested?
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Both main hax is conceptual type 1, which in Typhon case is the control of the concept of time to erase time in a sense that make him unable to be affected by anything and that make all his things affect the other side without chance to dodge or block, he also create a conceptual space 3km around him that one can't enter or escape without concept manip and that damage the opponent concept if get inside. Susamikado share the conceptual space plus an even better conceptual space that serve as an attack and a conceptual sealing.
Adem_Warlock69 said:
I mean, we're talking about someone who could convince Izuru, a Extraordinary Genius who's supernatural analytical and precognition skills caused him to become emotionless, to join her side and can make people commit seppuku just in a few words.
So doubt supernatural willpower or mind resistances (Since SI isn't really mind manip) would really change anything.

While it's true that most would at least resist some of her hax, Junko is so powerful due to the variety.
Law hax is useless against Immortal characters, but her Mind/Morality hax (Which affects Type 2 inorganics btw) would take care of them and vice versa.
And unlike most characters, Junko having 10^60 copies means she doesn't have to worry if one of her Monokumas get dura negged/thought based mind haxed before she can act (Which also counters most "glass cannon" type characters like Johnny and Crow)
Click to expand...
The people in the list with supernatural will power gain haxs and resistance by sheer strength of will (Shizuku for example resist law and type 2 concepts by pure willpower, along with a ton shit of other haxs, which actually also include SI if you really want to list resistance against that sort of thing, and the sheer strength of her will can potentially make her resist type 1 concepts), other characters like Han have law and reality warping protection that affect their mind (like Han for example with game mechanics that just "lol no" things unless they are even more haxed or abstract/complex than his shit), and others have a mind so abstract that can't be affected with conventional means (like Sacred Beast who is quite literally a system of a place that control the fate of everything in here world and can't be affected at all unless you directly control the system inside said thing. Btw in case of face her at most one of her clones would get inside the virtual world or Junko while the rest of her still is in the real world so even less reason for anything of Junko shit be effective with her), and shit like that, so unless she have feats of despair talk people with things like this she isn't going to make them have despair.

Already explained in this and other comments how they resist, ignore or neg her haxs so not going to explain that again. You also would need to show proof that if one of her clones get affected (by lets say supernatural mind manip or possession for example) the rest will be completely fine, that if a part of the colony get infected the rest wouldn't be, there are also characters that directly affect (at least) several kilometers with their passive haxs like Crow for example so Junko couldn't get close at all and likely would be instantly defeated.

There is also her weakness about purposely give chances to be defeated, get bored easily and the inability of freely control the rules of the virtual world, which can add to the chances of her getting defeated by the characters I mentioned (especially since by itself they already have strong arguments for them).
 
I'm pretty sure you need to actually physically be that tier

"Only the base stats are considered (I.E. if a character has a High 3-A technique but is only 9-A by itself, then the character will only count for 9-A and not for High 3-A)."

Which means anyone whose striking strength isn't in the same tier as their listed AP should be removed
 
azontr said:
Okay but if it can't be tied to an ability then how does that rule even work. People who aren't physically [Insert tier] are usually that tier through a weapon or ability.
Click to expand...
Hell if I know. Just has to be the base stats and not something attached to it.

Also if, based on the wording, only base stats are included then shouldn't Kenshiro be removed from 5-C cuz it's not his base stats?
 
Expectro2000xxx said:
Both main hax is conceptual type 1, which in Typhon case is the control of the concept of time to erase time in a sense that make him unable to be affected by anything and that make all his things affect the other side without chance to dodge or block, he also create a conceptual space 3km around him that one can't enter or escape without concept manip and that damage the opponent concept if get inside. Susamikado share the conceptual space plus an even better conceptual space that serve as an attack and a conceptual sealing.
Click to expand...
Their profiles outright say their hax have never been used for offensive purposes
 
Psychomaster35 said:
I'm pretty sure you need to actually physically be that tier

"Only the base stats are considered (I.E. if a character has a High 3-A technique but is only 9-A by itself, then the character will only count for 9-A and not for High 3-A)."

Which means anyone whose striking strength isn't in the same tier as their listed AP should be removed
Click to expand...
Everything12 said:
You don't. As long as your tier matches, it isn't from Environmental Destruction or a weapon or the like, and you don’t have any smurf ratings or abilities, then you apply.
Click to expand...

AbaddonTheDisappointment said:
From the OG thread

So I'm assuming you don't have to be physically that tier but it can't be something specifically tied to an ability
Click to expand...
Yeah.
 
Social Influence isn't going to work if the character isn't any to pull off the action or conversation needed to influence them before they are defeated. It isn't Mind Manipulation where you can just instantly change how they think.
 
Originally characters only qualified for a tier if they were physically that tier (either by base stats, do to amps or transformations), recently however some persons (which I think even include the op of this new thread if memory serve me right) began to advocate for characters that aren't physically a tier for be able to get a spot in that tier as long their main fighting attacks were said tier (something like a wizard that is 9-A physically but tier 7 with magic and magic is his main weapon, Ainz for example).
 
WeeklyBattles said:
Their profiles outright say their hax have never been used for offensive purposes
Click to expand...
They do? Can you quote that part, so that I can either change it or clarify what is meant? Because their concept manip definitely has an effect relevant for combat. Just not "bam, your concept doesn't exist" or stuff like that.
 
Expectro2000xxx said:
Both main hax is conceptual type 1, which in Typhon case is the control of the concept of time to erase time in a sense that make him unable to be affected by anything and that make all his things affect the other side without chance to dodge or block, he also create a conceptual space 3km around him that one can't enter or escape without concept manip and that damage the opponent concept if get inside. Susamikado share the conceptual space plus an even better conceptual space that serv
Click to expand...
Do they beat the hunter? Sasha and misha can bypass with power null
 
Tatsumi504 said:
Do they beat the hunter? Sasha and misha can bypass with power null
Click to expand...
I would say yes since he can't affect them with their conceptual spatial space and their hax just defeat him in a unilateral way (since he can't defend and at much could maybe revive for infinite just to die, though with concwptual sealing that isn't even an option), but Weekly think different. Maybe a match could be done just to clarify but in principle I don't really see Hunter winning against their conceptual powers.
 
Expectro2000xxx said:
The people in the list with supernatural will power gain haxs and resistance by sheer strength of will (Shizuku for example resist law and type 2 concepts by pure willpower, along with a ton shit of other haxs, which actually also include SI if you really want to list resistance against that sort of thing, and the sheer strength of her will can potentially make her resist type 1 concepts), other characters like Han have law and reality warping protection that affect their mind (like Han for example with game mechanics that just "lol no" things unless they are even more haxed or abstract/complex than his shit), and others have a mind so abstract that can't be affected with conventional means (like Sacred Beast who is quite literally a system of a place that control the fate of everything in here world and can't be affected at all unless you directly control the system inside said thing and shit like that, so unless she have feats of despair talk people with things like this she isn't going to make them have despair.
Click to expand...
I mean, sure those with abstract minds and supernatural will that somehow gives them resistances to concep hax won't really fall into despair (Not really sure if having mind protection really works against, well, being talked to and being convinced tho)
I see Social Influencing being a wincon when neither Junko nor her opponent can beat the other (Like against Danny Phantom and other similar characters)
Already explained in this and other comments how they resist, ignore or neg her haxs so not going to explain that again. You also would need to show proof that if one of her clones get affected (by lets say supernatural mind manip or possession for example) the rest will be completely fine, that if a part of the colony get infected the rest wouldn't be
Click to expand...
Her clones are made by her copie+pasting her data into other Monokumas.
I don't see why we'd assume controlling one Monokuma means they can control the entire army?
There are also characters that directly affect (at least) several kilometers with their passive haxs like Crow for example so Junko couldn't get close at all and likely would be instantly defeated.
Click to expand...
That would be the case for Base Junko, AI Junko is basically immortal with her 10^60 copies that keep on growing, so passive dura neg would be useless unless it's a Passive Corruption/Mind hax
There is also her weakness about purposely give chances to be defeated, get bored easily and the inability of freely control the rules of the virtual world, which can add to the chances of her getting defeated by the characters I mentioned (especially since by itself they already have strong arguments for them).
Click to expand...
Her inability to freely control the rules just means she can't remove these rules
  • Rule #1: Extreme violence is prohibited on this island. Please live peaceful and relaxing lives with your fellow students.
  • Rule #2: Be considerate of each other and work together to obtain Hope Fragments.
  • Rule #3: Littering is not allowed. Let us coexist with this island's bountiful nature in "mutual prosperity".
  • Rule #4: The lead teacher cannot directly interfere with the students. An exception to this rule is made if any student violates a rule.
 
Expectro2000xxx said:
I would say yes since he can't affect them with their conceptual spatial space and their hax just defeat him in a unilateral way (since he can't defend and at much could maybe revive for infinite just to die, though with concwptual sealing that isn't even an option), but Weekly think different. Maybe a match could be done just to clarify but in principle I don't really see Hunter winning against their conceptual powers.
Click to expand...
So right now it's;
  1. D&D characters
  2. Characters from Maou gakuin (Only Sasha & Misha)
  3. Owari no chronicle characters (Typhoon & Susamikado)
  4. The Hunter (Bloodborne)
That's the top 4 who takes the next 4 spots after them?
 
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