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Top 10 Strongest Non-Smurfs for every tier continued (again)

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Hunter in his High 6-C key doesn't really have passive or thought-based madness manip, iirc? And his range is shiz and Ning has flight, so he's not really ever affecting him.

Not to mention, Conceptual Lock exists to lock Hunter in his place.

Or, even better, Ning can just continuously destroy his soul with a thought, making it an incon.
 
Tatsumi504 said:
RE goes brr. He progressively gets faster till he bliyz them all?

He has that in High 6-C?
Click to expand...
Nvm, I misread it, mb. He doesn't have conceptual lock in this key, he has it in his High 6-A key.

Not that it matters, he can just continue destroying the hunter's soul.
 
Rikimarox2 said:
Hunter in his High 6-C key doesn't really have passive or thought-based madness manip, iirc? And his range is shiz and Ning has flight, so he's not really ever affecting him.
Click to expand...
He has visual-based madness manip with a few of his weapons as well as his ability to turn into a Kin, which gives passive type 2 and 3 madness manip
Rikimarox2 said:
Not that it matters, he can just continue destroying the hunter's soul.
Click to expand...
Wouldnt work going by the Drinker thread, the Hunter can go on just fine without a soul due to their ability to turn into a Keeper of the Old Lords and back to human without any issue

Gonn be throwing together a quick CRT to add some o the missing Hunter stuff later today
 
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Adem_Warlock69 said:
I'd bet Junko would use one of her main moves before Danny becomes fast enough to solo 10000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 Monokumas
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She still won't be able to affect him with anything while danny has forever to wail on the monokuma's, that's why he's above
 
Tatsumi504 said:
She still won't be able to affect him with anything while danny has forever to wail on the monokuma's, that's why he's above
Click to expand...
Talk no Jutso go brrrrr
Not to mention that Junko's precog and analysis means she knows the perfect way to deal with Danny
 
Tatsumi504 said:
Pretty sure they whoop edo itachi. He's just hiding behind low-godly regen
Click to expand...
Do they have passives that beat him and if not how many layers of resistence to mindhax do they have
without either of those Itachi just points and mindhaxs, or stares and mindhaxs
 
Can Ainchase resist absorption?
TheGreatJedi13 said:
2-B
Inchoate World same franchise as Akasha except he is immune to akasha and has Reactive Evolution to basically everything in Sky-realm.
Click to expand...
Ain Type 9 will probably save him over and over but Inchoate will just absorb and absorb those. until his RE is strong enough that ain will have no way to harm him. Ain Omnipresence might be impossible to reach since it looks like it reaches 2-A so at best they would Incon Each other speed equal or Speed unequal
 
The wanking of Hunter, as mentioned before his time rewind can't fo anything against conceptual haxs (so he also can't do shit against Owari characters), and die for all eternity isn't really an inco and more a eternal lose (is also an agreed rule in the thread that a stonewall who can't defeat characters and only get incon don't get spots, so he wouldn't even share place with the first guys).

However regarding the D&D guys, if on top of their immortality that is already quite at the line of what qualify as smurf they also get knowledge from a higher d being then that definitely is smurf, it would fall in the rule that not matter how small or useless something is as long is higher d the character is out, that also in their case wouldn't even be something small based on Lephyr words.

So the D&D side should be kicked out and Hunter go to third spot (since trying to debate something like Henry vs Hunter would be too tiring and time consuming).


About Danny, the reason of why was above Junko is because ghost powers also have supernatural effect on machines and data which could **** Junko, along with his strong will and ability to return to reality.
 
Given that the spots on the list increased, guess Adam Blade and the Second Christ could regain an spot in the 6-C and High 7-A Tiers, respectively.

Also, I could recommend Kain for 9-A (wow, sure someone take the time to add a bunch o stuff) and Etrien Gnosos for Low 7-B (it fought Strahd, although the debate didn't advance beyond the vampire charming the creature, that in theory shouldn't be possible)
 
WeeklyBattles said:
Much like the conceptual sealing, thats something the Hunter could possibly do, but has never done
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Well, as said, I fully agree that it's OOC.
However, saying that he doesn't have sealing because it's OOC to use the sealing machine he always carries around, is like saying a character that carries around a flamethrower doesn't have fire manipulation because he doesn't use it. Still has it, it's just not usually used.

And of course, all of that doesn't apply to the other concept stuff.
Tatsumi504 said:
Yeah looks like a 3 way finish to me.
  1. D&D characters, Characters from Maou gakuin (Only Sasha & Misha) & The Hunter (Bloodborne)
  2. Owari no chronicle characters (Typhoon & Susamikado)
  3. Henry Stickman
  4. Sacred Eclipse
  5. Shizuku
  6. Han Jee-Han/ Ikki kurogane
  7. Danny Phantom
  8. Crowfather
  9. Junko
A spot is empty but before that OnC CM1 stuff needs to be settled
Click to expand...
Didn't sacred eclipse have passive AoE Mind stuff or something? Or am I misremembering that? 'cause if so, the OnC characters can't do much against that.

And Hunter still needs its range revised to interdimensional if it wants to qualify for this list
 
DontTalkDT said:
Didn't sacred eclipse have passive AoE Mind stuff or something? Or am I misremembering that? 'cause if so, the OnC characters can't do much against that.
Click to expand...
From the P&A description her mind manip seems to only work against people with baptism and those with her seeds, so shouldn't affect the Owari characters since they don't have Baptism or her seed and their conceptual spatial protection (and time erasure in Typhon case) should prevent them from getting infect with such things in the first place. Mental Pollution (which is the thing that work if she see or is saw by the opponent) is in third key which is Low 7-C.
 
Expectro2000xxx said:
From the P&A description her mind manip seems to only work against people with baptism and those with her seeds, so shouldn't affect the Owari characters since they don't have Baptism or her seed and their conceptual spatial protection (and time erasure in Typhon case) should prevent them from getting infect with such things in the first place. Mental Pollution (which is the thing that work if she see or is saw by the opponent) is in third key which is Low 7-C.
Click to expand...
Ah, I see, so the passive mind manip is another key.

Gotta say I'm not sure what you mean with conceptual spatial protection, though. Susamikado can created Concept Spaces (i.e. pocket dimensions you can only leave via concept manip) and drag people into them, but that doesn't really work as a defensive technique 🤔
 
DontTalkDT said:
Ah, I see, so the passive mind manip is another key.

Gotta say I'm not sure what you mean with conceptual spatial protection, though. Susamikado can created Concept Spaces (i.e. pocket dimensions you can only leave via concept manip) and drag people into them, but that doesn't really work as a defensive technique 🤔
Click to expand...
The profile mention they have a spatial distortion around them:
The concept space produced by adding concepts to the surroundings can not be entered or left without concept manipulating equipement and forcefully entering in the center risks damages to once concepts. Typhons concept space can have a radius of at least 3km.
Click to expand...
 
Expectro2000xxx said:
The profile mention they have a spatial distortion around them:
Click to expand...
Oh, I think you're misinterpreting that part.

Here is the full explanation regarding concept spaces, but it's kinda long:
Sayama gulped at Ooshiro’s words and looked down toward his feet and then around his entire surroundings.

“In other words, the concept of ‘your feet are on the ground’ is being used to make efficient use of this small underground space? …Was that voice I heard upon entering the concept?”

“That was a Concept Text. It is made by gathering inferior reproductions of an extracted concept. Each individual concept is very weak, but it can be heard as a voice once it reaches the level of a Concept Text. This space also has several weaker concepts added on as well, but they cannot be heard as a voice.” He continued. “When an out of phase space has concepts added to it, it is known as a Concept Space. We think of a concept’s identity as a variable fixed-period vibration wave that we call a string vibration.”

“This just got a lot more complicated. A string vibration, you say?”

Sayama thought.

Ooshiro had said an alternate world was a world with different concepts. In that case…

“So alternate worlds are worlds with different string vibration frequencies?”

“Yes. And everything in any of the worlds has a string vibration for their world and a string vibration for the object itself. The one for the world we call the parent string vibration and the one for the individual we call the child string vibration.”

Sayama nodded and said, “So is it like a numerator and denominator? The denominator tells you what Gear they belong to and the numerator tells you what the individual is.”

“Yes. If the numerator differs, it is a different individual. If the denominator differs, it may be the same existence but from a different world. These alternate worlds are not parallel. They exist in multiple phases atop each other. According to the records, a ‘gate’ that alters one’s parent string vibration is needed to move to and from different Gears.”

Sayama then recalled the invisible wall surrounding the forest.

“This evening…was that a space that’s parent string vibration had been completely altered?”

“Not quite. If its parent string vibration had been completely altered, that space would have completely disappeared from this world. But,” Ooshiro raised his index finger, “what if only a portion of its parent string vibration was altered?”

“In that case, would the altered objects world split into two existences? The real one and the alternate world one would exist on top of each other at the same time. …And that means the objects would not disappear from reality.”

He remembered the stone he had picked up in the forest. He remembered how it had left a pale shadow behind.

“So two versions of that forest existed on top of each other? I am guessing a smaller portion had the alternate world string vibration than the reality string vibration. Could I not leave because of the difference in vibration density?”

“Correct. How very wise of you. That is what we call a Concept Space. It is only a pseudo-alternate world created by borrowing a portion of an area’s string vibration. Since it is still connected to the real world, it is easier to create and return to normal.” As he spoke, Ooshiro showed off the watch on his left arm. “I gave you one of these before we entered this Concept Space. These watches are known as String Watches. They detect the wall of a Concept Space and alter the wearer’s parent string vibration accordingly. They are a small version of the ‘gates’ I mentioned earlier.”

“But how did I enter the Concept Space in the forest without one?”

“Someone secretly read your child string vibration. When the forest was turned into a Concept Space, your string vibration was registered so you would be allowed in. That is one thing that can be done when creating a Concept Space. And I apologize,” said Ooshiro as he looked toward Sayama’s left arm. “It seems we rushed things. We only wanted to let you experience it for yourself, but you ended up getting injured due to the inexperience of our units.”

“But it was thanks to that experience that I met Shinjou-kun and am having this conversation now.”

When he said that, Shinjou looked over from her perpendicular position with a troubled expression.

Sayama responded with a bitter smile.

“Come on down now,” instructed Ooshiro.

Sayama nodded and walked down to the passageway where Shinjou stood.

Ooshiro did so as well and looked up at the ceiling.

“Could we return just the inside of the passageway?”

The watch on Sayama’s left arm vibrated.

In the next moment, the surrounding scenery changed. The floors on either side became empty spaces.

Not only were the office desks and maintenance equipment gone, but the materials making up the walls and ceiling were gone too.

They were simply vast, dark areas without even any lights.

“This is what this underground space normally looks like. Everyone does their work in the Concept Space.”



Sayama placed a foot on the window.

However, he no longer felt any power attracting the bottom of his foot to the window.

He also realized the wrench that had fallen to the floor was gone.

They had returned to reality.

Sayama let out a breath and looked around the empty space.

If he paid very close attention, he could make out the faint shadows of people, desks, and machinery.

Sayama then recalled the battle in the forest.

“What happens if something is destroyed in a Concept Space?”

“An object’s string vibration is the concept of its very existence. If a portion of that existence concept is destroyed, no portion of the object itself is destroyed. However, its existence percentage drops. If only a dozen or so percent is used, being destroyed once will not lead to the actual object’s destruction. However…”

“If an object is taken in and destroyed again and again, will the damage eventually reach the original? But I suppose that is quite a bit better than simply destroying a portion of the world. Can humans split apart so only a portion is sent into the Concept Space? That would avoid dying in one.”

“It can be done, but we don’t. As it is only a portion, something inside a Concept Space is an inferior version of the original. The object must rely on the information from the instant of being taken into the space, so its life force is weak and it has no ability to alter the future. …You could say the objects have no ability to grow and simply ‘act’ before being destroyed. That is why it is difficult to maintain a Concept Space for long. If it is not released quickly, everything inside will destroy themselves.”

“Is that why there were no animals in the Concept Space?”

“When choosing the structural elements of a Concept Space, we do our best to only use terrain that does not move on its own. That also reduces the amount of data needed. …Although if you insist that plants are living things too, I have no argument for you.” Ooshiro gave a bitter smile. “And anything that will actually take an active role within has 100% of itself sent inside so that it will not destroy itself. That is what we did with the UCAT Concept Space I just showed you. An empty area is turned into a Concept Space and all of the equipment is brought in from outside. The air conditioning, water pipes, and other things that circulate were tricky.”

Hearing that, Sayama looked through the windows on either side and into the empty spaces beyond. A dark atmosphere seemed to fall over him.
Click to expand...
The TL;DR is that a concept space is created by adding concepts to the surroundings and that way creating a pocket dimension that is a copy of said surroundings. The surroundings itself continue existing, though. When creating it, the creator can decide which living beings should be dragged inside and which should stay outside.
Concept spaces are not usually used for defensive purposes.

(Susamikado can also create gravity shields, which by the theory of general relativity are technically spatial distortions, but obviously, that's not that hax)
 
Tatsumi504 said:
Pretty sure they whoop edo itachi. He's just hiding behind low-godly regen
Click to expand...
theultimate5105 said:
Do they have passives that beat him and if not how many layers of resistence to mindhax do they have
without either of those Itachi just points and mindhaxs, or stares and mindhaxs
Click to expand...
I'm a bit hesitant to say all three can beat him but Sakanashi already has a thread with Itachi that only needs three or four more votes for Saka to win. His puppets are basically his main win con, he can simply twist Itachi's neck before Itachi decides what he wants to do by sensing his negative emotions or his chakra being manipulated while Sakanashi's hax are summon based void danmaku balls and thought based spatial hax. If Itachi's genjutsu works by putting chakra into his opponent, then all of them would prob win since they all have auras that block out energy but regardless Saka wins it.
 
DontTalkDT said:
Oh, I think you're misinterpreting that part.

Here is the full explanation regarding concept spaces, but it's kinda long:

The TL;DR is that a concept space is created by adding concepts to the surroundings and that way creating a pocket dimension that is a copy of said surroundings. The surroundings itself continue existing, though. When creating it, the creator can decide which living beings should be dragged inside and which should stay outside.
Concept spaces are not usually used for defensive purposes.

(Susamikado can also create gravity shields, which by the theory of general relativity are technically spatial distortions, but obviously, that's not that hax)
Click to expand...
Fair then, they still wouldn't be affected by Baptism or her seeds since the gravity and time haxs would protect them though (and in the case of the Baptism she need to directly touch someone to give them Baptism so more unlikely that she could do it).
 
Shouldn't Fu be beyond cdz characters? I took a look at cdz's 2-A character profile, and I don't see any cdz character being more powerful than fu.
 
Expectro2000xxx said:
However regarding the D&D guys, if on top of their immortality that is already quite at the line of what qualify as smurf they also get knowledge from a higher d being then that definitely is smurf, it would fall in the rule that not matter how small or useless something is as long is higher d the character is out, that also in their case wouldn't even be something small based on Lephyr words.
Click to expand...
From dnd, the only ones to be kicked out from this would be the Drinker.

Edit: Though Weekly argued it would be outside help, and Tatsumi said it's usable, so I don't know
 
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