Top 10 Strongest Characters for Every Tier Continuation

[Eseseso]

For 2-A, I'd like to nominate Dr. Doom for a top 10 spot in that as well, as his prep/tech and absorption go up to 2-A (though IIRC once the Marvel abstract revisions go through that'll change to High 1-B)

Asides from retaining all his bonkers hax that his Base has, the 2-A in Marvel that he scales to is IIRC (infinity^[2 or 3]) times Baseline 2-A.

It's explained in this thread.

Also, IMO @Deceived3596 Doom should be above Ace and arguably Ruphas and either tied with or just below Foreigner. He is definitely below #1 and #2 though. Maybe Ruphas is also above him, not sure how her 1500 and 2100 keys scale in hax to the tier 1 stuff, but he should probably be above Ace or minimum tied with him.

 

[Theglassman12]

Can Dmitrii take the Old Man's spot on High 3-A? He has everything the old man has and then some alongside resistance to plot hax.

 

[Dragonstitch]

by the way Caliborn needs above D&D. It was already he passively stomps Venca, the strongest 2-A in the verse.

 

[Robo432343]

by the way Caliborn needs above DnD It was already he passively stomps Venca, the strongest 2-A in the verse.

are you sure the people in that thread knew anything about D&D
there were barely any dnd supporters in that thread

 

[Dragonstitch]

are you sure the people in that thread knew anything about D&D
there were barely any dnd supporters in that thread

yes i am sure. Vecna has only 2-3 thought based 1-A hax. all his resistances and other hax are on a 4-D level. the only person that was not saying it was a stomp was Zeitgeist who was doing nothing but lying as Vecna and the gods have no 5-D hax or resistances, and vecna has never come in contact with 1-A sealing let alone break free of 1-A sealing. So he gets passively Plot, Fate, Probability, and Causality haxed into oblivion before he could do anything. and one of D&D's main reason for being number 1 for so long was it's busted passive 4-D Probability that make all their abilities trigger first. and 1-A Probability hax would completely over right that.

Edit: and i did make a mistake in that thread he does not have 1-A fear hax. that was found to not be 1-A. so he has two 1-A BFR spells, and one 1-A madness type 3 spells.

 

[Deceived3596]

I made the requested changes.

@CodeCCLL I would prefer that you make the Satan versus thread before I do anything with his placement since I'm not knowledgeable on either series. So it's possible Satan does have some level of valid win-con that I can't see.

@Eseseso I would recommend you making a verse thread for a higher position since I'm not knowledgeable on either series, so I can't really tell if Dr.Doom would beat them or not.

@Theglassman12 Unless the old man has layered Plot Manipulation that I don't know about, then Dmitrii should be above him. I'll add him for right now, but I would recommend pinging @DontTalkDT for further clarification.

@Dragonstitch I would like a known, knowledgeable member of the verse, such as @LephyrTheRevanchist or @Mr._Bambu to comment on this issue before making any changes.

 

[FoxySonicMaster108]

@Dragonstitch I would like a known, knowledgeable member of the verse, such as @LephyrTheRevanchist or @Mr._Bambu to comment on this issue before making any changes.

About that. Mr. Bambu isn’t going to do it from my understanding.

 

[LephyrTheRevanchist]

@Dragonstitch I would like a known, knowledgeable member of the verse, such as @LephyrTheRevanchist or @Mr._Bambu to comment on this issue before making any changes.

Dragonstitch is correct

 

[Deceived3596]

Alright, I'll make the change here shortly.

 

[Kirinator07]

Aizen Sōsuke for a placement on Low 4-C

From this thread:

Passive Layered Soul Manipulation, Fear Manipulation, Paralysis Inducement. (Soul Crush)

Mid Godly Regeneration, Immortality Type 1,2,3,8, Reactive Evolution (It can give Aizen new abilities and resistances.) (Via Hogyoku)
Possible Invulnerability. (Physiology)

(Continued Way)
Sealing, Deconstruction (Atomic) and Space-Time Manipulation (Hado 90)
Illusion Creation and Perception Manipulation (Kyoka Suigetsu)

Aizen Sosuke is an Extraordinary Genius. Just by looking, he can understand (Information Analyze) the abilities of his opponents and use a variety of abilities to neutralize them.(Like a Pocket Reality Manipulation and Dimensional Sealing)

 

[Kirinator07]

To me, without further context to the quote, it seems his just talking about the Not in the sense of a distinction between IS and IS NOT rather than being actually apophatic.

Something like the Self-Reference Engine cannot be understood in either positive or negative terms.

Idk, it does describe the negation of "nothing" as in the negative term itself, since it's negative theology, and IS being Apophathic.

 

[LordGriffin1000]

Danny Phantom characters shouldn't be in 10th place 2-C... there are a metric ton of 2-C characters who stomp them, heck they are currently below Yu-Gi-Oh characters on the Non-Smurf list and those guys aren't even listed here.

 

[Setsuna_tenma]

Li for a spot in 6C , 4C and 3B

 

[Eseseso]

For comparing Doom to the other 5-B people, I have little doubt that the #1, 2, and 4 strongest 5-B's all have hax that utterly claps him (and even Foreigner has 8-D hax that beats Doom more times than not from what I can tell), but IMO he should be on the same spot as Ace from Final Fantasy.

Looking at Ace's profile, I see that he has some impressive Conceptual Manipulation and Law Manipulation hax that could definitely mess Doom up, plus he has Soul Destruction/absorption in his Rursan Arbiter key and his resistance to magic negates much of Doom's arsenal.

However, Doom can absorb his power passively (since Doom does have the superior durability and thus could take a lot of hits if Ace doesn't have a way to one-shot him in-character ASAP) or can either press the button on his armor to absorb Ace's energy or just transmute him into energy and absorb him that way.

He can mindhax him via layered tier 1 mindhax, either with his own mental psionics or using his armor's telepathic scrambler (which worked on an amped Moondragon, when a normal Moondragon matched Dr. Strange in mind hax and Strange himself matched the tier 1 Umar).

So while Ace resists a lot of what Doom brings to the table and can definitely kill him with his hax, Doom can mindhax him or absorb him in turn.

 

[Gasper]

Can 9-B IT get a placement? He has 1-A madness max.

 

[Dragonite007]

Can 9-B IT get a placement? He has 1-A madness max.

Not enough range to kill the 10th

 

[Kirinator07]

Shouldn't the Doomslayer take Xavier's position in 8-C, or are Xavier's passives a bit much?

 

[AlphaOmegaV1]

For comparing Doom to the other 5-B people, I have little doubt that the #1, 2, and 4 strongest 5-B's all have hax that utterly claps him (and even Foreigner has 8-D hax that beats Doom more times than not from what I can tell), but IMO he should be on the same spot as Ace from Final Fantasy.

Looking at Ace's profile, I see that he has some impressive Conceptual Manipulation and Law Manipulation hax that could definitely mess Doom up, plus he has Soul Destruction/absorption in his Rursan Arbiter key and his resistance to magic negates much of Doom's arsenal.

However, Doom can absorb his power passively (since Doom does have the superior durability and thus could take a lot of hits if Ace doesn't have a way to one-shot him in-character ASAP) or can either press the button on his armor to absorb Ace's energy or just transmute him into energy and absorb him that way.

He can mindhax him via layered tier 1 mindhax, either with his own mental psionics or using his armor's telepathic scrambler (which worked on an amped Moondragon, when a normal Moondragon matched Dr. Strange in mind hax and Strange himself matched the tier 1 Umar).

So while Ace resists a lot of what Doom brings to the table and can definitely kill him with his hax, Doom can mindhax him or absorb him in turn.

Just to let you know Ace's is going to be undergoing a revision to give him more additions in the near future. However I do want to say a couple things. First being the link you posted is broken

Ace does have multiple ways to one-shot. All of his Magic Spells have Conceptual Manip, Space-Time, Law and Subjective Reality. Also Doom would need to be able to affect Ace's Heart and Soul to leave him completely powerless which have both AE and Type 3 NEP. Doom could maybe absorb magic, but that wouldn't stop the effects of Chaos, which would be at play the moment the fight starts with many things that Doom doesn't resist. Chaos can independently of the person. On top of this Ace can Absorb Doom's Soul in his base Key as well. Though Doom needs to be vulnerable in order to do it.

 

[Eseseso]

Just to let you know Ace's is going to be undergoing a revision to give him more additions in the near future.

Fair enough.

However I do want to say a couple things. First being the link you posted is broken

(Drained all of Count Nefaria's power)

That should work.

Ace does have multiple ways to one-shot. All of his Magic Spells have Conceptual Manip, Space-Time, Law and Subjective Reality.

Oh I know he has hax Doom can't survive.

Also Doom would need to be able to affect Ace's Heart and Soul to leave him completely powerless which have both AE and Type 3 NEP. Doom could maybe absorb magic, but that wouldn't stop the effects of Chaos, which would be at play the moment the fight starts with many things that Doom doesn't resist. Chaos can independently of the person.

So if he absorbs Ace's power, then Chaos will mess him up?

On top of this Ace can Absorb Doom's Soul in his base Key as well. Though Doom needs to be vulnerable in order to do it.

Wdym vulnerable?

I mean, Doom also has mindhax, but seems like Ace has far more wincons.

Could Ace resist Doom going back in time and changing the past? Or being BFR'd to 1 million years in the past?

 

[Zaratthustra]

Xu Jingming got an update - his offensives powers are now all higher dimensional (those with him manipulating the cosmic force so not physical attacks).

His range of teleportation increased to 7.3 billion light-years (within the universe), while his Higher Dimensional Teleportation and Perspective covers now 3622 light-years (in which he can instantly attack from the higher dimension). His deconstruction can now not only obliterate all spacetimes layers of the universe but even reach the higher dimension).

He got a Primordial Star state that creates a gravitational domain that affects/distorts spacetime from the higher dimension (stronger than the potency of the universe itself). In the same state, he becomes a miniature primordial star (higher dimensional object) which let him affect higher dimensional powers and objects, to attack or defend. Or simply create flames of this prowess.

His threads and light attacks are also on the same level (Cosmic Legend = Higher Dimension) which can bind/restrain and destroy others and through the use of Vibrations he can make the spacetime explode, freeze, or quake which produces intense tremors or creates a suppression that can stabilize such attacks and restrain others beings (this one is also at the Cosmic Legend level).

While not an increase in tier but now all his physical attacks can one-shot beings who could one-shot his previous self. He also got an up in intelligence as he can create any non-higher dimensional technology.

Can the other tier 4-C characters resist these new additions of his? Likely top 3 is an even higher level of smurf so let's try for just up to the 4th slot.

 

[AlphaOmegaV1]

Fair enough.

(Drained all of Count Nefaria's power)

That should work.

I'm sorry for the late reply, my machine is not being cooperative today. The link is still broken to me. Don't know if it's the same for anyone else. Maybe link the revision where it was posted?

So if he absorbs Ace's power, then Chaos will mess him up?

You could say that I suppose

Wdym vulnerable?

I mean, Doom also has mindhax, but seems like Ace has far more wincons.

Could Ace resist Doom going back in time and changing the past? Or being BFR'd to 1 million years in the past?

By Vulnerable, I mean in a weakened state, like beaten down a bit. For the former, I'm pretty sure, Type 4 Acausality covers that as well as resistance to Causality Manip. For the latter no. However, it's worth noting that Chaos is Omnipresent in all points of Space and Time. Extending across the Past, Present, Future across multiple timelines and dimensions. It's also capable of doing that exact thing of changing the past, and can drag people across time like so. While re-writing past events that took place in the process. So if someone were to Time Travel, Chaos can drag them right back.

 

[Eseseso]

I'm sorry for the late reply, my machine is not being cooperative today. The link is still broken to me. Don't know if it's the same for anyone else. Maybe link the revision where it was posted?

It's on Doom's profile in the P&A section under absorption.

You could say that I suppose

Huh.

By Vulnerable, I mean in a weakened state, like beaten down a bit.

To beat down Doom, huh? What does his AP look like?

For the former, I'm pretty sure, Type 4 Acausality covers that as well as resistance to Causality Manip. For the latter no. However, it's worth noting that Chaos is Omnipresent in all points of Space and Time. Extending across the Past, Present, Future across multiple timelines and dimensions. It's also capable of doing that exact thing of changing the past, and can drag people across time like so. While re-writing past events that took place in the process. So if someone were to Time Travel, Chaos can drag them right back.

Ok, I see.

So Doom's only real wincon is mindhax (though I might be working with others in the future to revise Marvel's magic since it could be a UES with some higher dimensional hax when we're done with it).

Fair enough then, I concede the argument.

Man, Chaos is haxxy af.

 

[AlphaOmegaV1]

With more hax to come in the future. Though it'll be cool to see what Doom and other Marvel magic users get in the future.

 

[Eseseso]

With more hax to come in the future.

Color me impressed.

Though it'll be cool to see what Doom and other Marvel magic users get in the future.

Well, the thing is that the Marvel profiles and power stuff right now is...utterly atrocious.

And I've been discussing with Ultima (and I may try to work with others to make a page) and turns out Marvel's magic is a UES, and may be higher dimensional.

For example, some of the stuff Marvel's magic could have includes Conceptual Manipulation, Subjective Reality, and Information Manipulation.

If any changes happen, I'll be sure to notify the thread.

 

[AlphaOmegaV1]

Looking forward to it! Guess both of them are gonna receive overhauls. Final Fantasy is in the midst of a revision as well, it's just going slowly with games being tackled one by one.

 

[Eseseso]

Looking forward to it!

Thanks! I'm currently working on the sandbox for it.

 

[Setsuna_tenma]

Xu Jingming got an update - his offensives powers are now all higher dimensional (those with him manipulating the cosmic force so not physical attacks).

His range of teleportation increased to 7.3 billion light-years (within the universe), while his Higher Dimensional Teleportation and Perspective covers now 3622 light-years (in which he can instantly attack from the higher dimension). His deconstruction can now not only obliterate all spacetimes layers of the universe but even reach the higher dimension).

He got a Primordial Star state that creates a gravitational domain that affects/distorts spacetime from the higher dimension (stronger than the potency of the universe itself). In the same state, he becomes a miniature primordial star (higher dimensional object) which let him affect higher dimensional powers and objects, to attack or defend. Or simply create flames of this prowess.

His threads and light attacks are also on the same level (Cosmic Legend = Higher Dimension) which can bind/restrain and destroy others and through the use of Vibrations he can make the spacetime explode, freeze, or quake which produces intense tremors or creates a suppression that can stabilize such attacks and restrain others beings (this one is also at the Cosmic Legend level).

While not an increase in tier but now all his physical attacks can one-shot beings who could one-shot his previous self. He also got an up in intelligence as he can create any non-higher dimensional technology.

Can the other tier 4-C characters resist these new additions of his? Likely top 3 is an even higher level of smurf so let's try for just up to the 4th slot.

Anos has High-Godly regen so he would be able to regen from xu attacks

 

[Zaratthustra]

But he will continue to die if he can't affect the higher dimension to reach Xu Jingming.

 

[ActuallySpaceMan42]

But he will continue to die if he can't affect the higher dimension to reach Xu Jingming.

Incap by spawn killing

 

[XDragnoir]

But he will continue to die if he can't affect the higher dimension to reach Xu Jingming.

Upgrade Xu to 4B and have him fight Ning

 

[Zaratthustra]

Upgrade Xu to 4B and have him fight Ning

His last addition was from level 10 origin lifeform but because of a thing I had to split the key in two. So unfortunately the next key will be both weaker but also stronger (less versatility, lower range, a few new abilities - more potent but he will get all the resistences from the verse that aren't higher dimensional...so he will become more of a tank to say). Only the key after the said one will get a new tier which is likely tier 2.

 

[Pedonar]

https://vsbattles.com/threads/kang-han-soo-vs-scarlet-witch.157511/

 

[Bobsican]

So, to sparkle up some discussion

The smurf thread has culminated (in summary) into the following changes for smurf hax:

- Characters with smurf range don't inherently have smurf potency too, meaning that a 3D character merely having hax with the range or area of effect at 5D or above won't mean it'll bypass a non-smurf 3-D character. For it to qualify as smurf, such hax has to be shown as capable of focusing on a single 3D target or similar.

- The opposite is also true, a character with smurf potency doesn't inherently has smurf range too, meaning that a 3D character having hax with 1-A potency isn't necessarily able to inherently hax a character that size-wise is 5-D or above, out of being unable to significantly reach a remotely notable amount of their being.

- Characters that are only 4-D or above stats wise (as in, AP, Durability and the like), but still of a lower dimensionality size-wise (for example, most tier 2 characters are 3D), aren't inherently immune to hax that entirely ignores durability, as they'd be within effective range for 3D hax abilities, only notable exception is Matter Manipulation and similar as the bonds of the character's atoms apparently would have to be infinitely higher than compared to "normal" 3D matter for the sake of their durability.

- Abilities based on cognition from the opponent, most commonly Madness Manipulation type 3, work regardless of dimensionality, so long the target can perceive them, as such similar arguments can also be made for Social Influencing on this regard.

In other words, smurf hax criteria got wider and some smurf hax is almost no better than normal hax beyond being able to consistently affect characters that are size-wise 4-D or above.

Will any placements get affected by this in particular?

 

[Robo432343]

So, to sparkle up some discussion

The smurf thread has culminated (in summary) into the following changes for smurf hax:

- Characters with smurf range don't inherently have smurf potency too, meaning that a 3D character merely having hax with the range or area of effect at 5D or above won't mean it'll bypass a non-smurf 3-D character. For it to qualify as smurf, such hax has to be shown as capable of focusing on a single 3D target or similar.

- The opposite is also true, a character with smurf potency doesn't inherently has smurf range too, meaning that a 3D character having hax with 1-A potency isn't necessarily able to inherently hax a character that size-wise is 5-D or above, out of being unable to significantly reach a remotely notable amount of their being.

- Characters that are only 4-D or above stats wise (as in, AP, Durability and the like), but still of a lower dimensionality size-wise (for example, most tier 2 characters are 3D), aren't inherently immune to hax that entirely ignores durability, as they'd be within effective range for 3D hax abilities, only notable exception is Matter Manipulation and similar as the bonds of the character's atoms apparently would have to be infinitely higher than compared to 3D matter for the sake of their durability.

- Abilities based on cognition from the opponent, most commonly Madness Manipulation type 3, work regardless of dimensionality, so long the target can perceive them, as such similar arguments can also be made for Social Influencing on this regard.

In other words, smurf hax criteria got wider and some smurf hax is almost no better than normal hax beyond being able to consistently affect characters that are size-wise 4-D or above.

can you list out some notable characters that this would affect

 

[Bobsican]

Most obvious case is that 90% of Fate Manipulation isn't a smurf potency ability, and by extension neither is Acausality for the most part.

The real question is if smurf potency should give higher placements than mere smurf range or not.

 

[ExSENNA]

That moment when Tier 0 mind can get affected by 3D madness hax

 

[BoastJr]

Snip

this all sounds like a major buff to Goku and Gojo

 

[Pedonar]

https://vsbattles.com/threads/kang-han-soo-vs-scarlet-witch.157511/

Can I discuss here, or do I have to create separate vs threads for each tier ?

 

[Maskofthedragon]

- Abilities based on cognition from the opponent, most commonly Madness Manipulation type 3, work regardless of dimensionality, so long the target can perceive them, as such similar arguments can also be made for Social Influencing on this regard.

Best ability, I always knew it!
We just need a Tier 0 getting tricked into painting a fence!

 

[Pedonar]

Kang han soo

han soo win con vs scarlet witch
Poison that melts, paralyzes, and corrodes lungs. Dark energy that corrupts the user; once she becomes corrupted, she will become part of the demon hierarchy, it means she will follow the strongest dark energy user.

Passive luck and probability manipulation

Additionally, resistance to the system which is 5D it grant him 5D resistance to laws, fate, and mind. The system also controls over six quadrillion souls. All of his hax are of 5D.

I think he should be:
low 7-B; 4 or 5

same as before + his existence and soul erasure and 2000x speed amplification

6-C; maybe 5 against zero

6-B; possibly 2

high 6-A ; 6

5-B; 5
5-A; equal to 6 or below

low 2-C ; atleast 9

2-B; 4