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Today on terrible ideas

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He doesn't need to use it tho. Even if they are equalized to Luffy's highest calced speed feat (Mach 909) and they start at 4km he'd only need 0.012s to cross the distance (unless I screwed the maths up).

Look, Luffy would take advantage over Naruto's moves. If Naruto sees Luffy's punch he'll dodge or block instead of still going on with the clone tactic before he even start the movement.

I really want to hear another opinion about the KN because he didn't used after Pain's fight and it's being used as an argument for some reason. If he can use it, fine, I concede, but it's not in-character when he has Sage Mode to use KN.
 
What? Being 4km away, Naruto would have an even greater advantage. Even as they begin and Luffy has seen the future with Naruto stirring his hands to use his jutsu and he accelerates to try to stop it, the time that Naruto spends to move his hands would be much less than 0.012s. Soon, until Luffy reached him, Naruto would have made clones.

Or not, for the reasons above.

Naruto KN was used in the fight against Pain, he reached up to 8 tail with it. Naruto can still get angry and use it, either for whatever reason, by being caught, by being frustrated or otherwise.
 
Fricking connection that ate my message...

Look, this will be the last time I'll explain this and if you don't get it I'll stop arguing it because I'm really tired and I don't want to get heated over a dude who's repeating the same argument despite having the explanation above of why that wouldn't work.

I'll explain it with a scale of time:

0 Seconds: Luffy sees Naruto summoning his clones in 5 seconds, meaning that Naruto would move his hands in 3 or 4 seconds, or even closer to 5 considering his speed.

1 Second: Luffy attacks. Naruto hasn't started to move yet.

1.012 Seconds: Luffy's punch reach Naruto. Naruto dodges/blocks, nullifying the action he was going to do 3 seconds later.

Hopefully you'll get it now.

Naruto only stacked the basic KN (changing his eyes and whiskers) when Kurama got angry for Nagato's words while he was in Sage Mode. He hasn't stacked them and can't do it at will or with little frustrating acts without proof. Nagato was pretty much provoking Naruto and Kurama at the same time and that's why that happened.

When using Sage Mode Naruto only gets angry over really bad reasons (like Hinata being stabbed, which was enough to make him go 6 tails).

On top of that, Sage Mode and KN are two different ordeals of scaling, and they aren't too different from each other (in Pain arc) when we see the different outcomes between SM Naruto vs Pain and KN Naruto vs Pain. The difference exists, but Pain was still able to fight back despite being outmatched.
 
WTF? Where do you get it from? Naruto would summon his clones in a few seconds? Stop with the extremely stressed and illogical headcanon.
Naruto ALWAYS uses his clones early in the battle (No Talk Jutsu, obviously). He's done it since Naruto Classic!
Where the hell are you taking Naruto it would take 2 to 3 seconds to move your hands? I do not even take a second to do the same hands position as Naruto and Naruto is as fast as Luffy.
That is, it has no meaning. At the same time that Luffy moves, Naruto will also move at the same speed to make his jutsu, no matter if Luffy could see the future or not.
In short, the battle begins, Luffy will see seconds in the future and while making his move, Naruto does his move at the same time, so Luffy can not undo this, especially several kilometers away. Just to that effect, Naruto moves his hand a few inches. Even if we consider that Naruto moves by 30cm for that, while Luffy needs 0.012s to get to Naruto at 4km ... Naruto would need 0.00000096985s to move at his hands.

Dude ... I'm not talking about him piling up the powers, stop answering what I did not say.
And Naruto transforms when he gets frustrated or asks for Kurama power. He got frustrated with Jiraiya and asked to borrow several times, and also turns when he gets angry or badly damaged.
He can use his chakra to boost his speed (which I call KN0) and if he gets frustrated, he can turn around and get KN1 and so on.
That's what I said.

What? I did not understand anything you said at any time.
I did not say that Naruto would stack powers, said that he can use them in different MODES (obviously, or use one or use the other), not together and stacking each other.
 
Okay, I'm done. I won't try to explain the process again because you're misunderstanding it. It's pissing me off to repeat myself so I'll skip this part. Luffy has Future Sight and can prevent Naruto from using his moves and that's something you can't deny.

The Basic KN isn't as useful as Sage Mode and again, he hasn't used it until end of the arc after he became Ninja Jesus. And he used just to deflect the Amaterasu, not to gain a power up, meaning that he doesn't need it.

It's out of character to use KN after Pain arc because KCM is better in any possible way.
 
Same argument debunked. I will not repeat what I said several times. If you think you see the future, it indicates that Luffy would start with motion advantage in a battle with equalized speeds and such absurd headcanon ... No problem!
 
Dude, drop the topic. I won't try to explain it again because you're just not getting the point whether you're ignoring it or you just don't get the mechanic. Repeating this point is only pissing me off and I don't want to.

You're using a Naruto that the OP isn't using so the point is moot.
 
Enough with the accusations. If you don't plan to contribute constructively than don't contribute at all. You've both said your piece, now drop the beef and let the rest decide.
 
Let's analyse the rule of the battle.

" Both at strongest 7-A " - meaning Naruto has Sage Mode.

Has better AP with Rasenshuriken.

Has better versatility with shadow clones.

Has better martial arts via Frog Kata, Luffy may counter it with Precognition but Sage Mode also has it.

Without Sage Mode, Luffy Wins but as they are at their strongest 7-A, Naruto wins.
 
If being refuted bores you, you should get out of the topic.
Your point is a complete nonsense headcanon and I have tasted you in a number of ways.

I'm using Base Naruto, Naruto KN (Kyuubi Naruto) and Sage Naruto, all 7-A. Your accusation is unfounded!
 
Seeing the future does not guarantee you the first move. Assure yourself what will happen and plans to work out against it.

With speed equalized, he does not anticipate something that will move at his speed.
It's like saying one bullet will anticipate the other identical bullet as long as they both shoot at the same time.
 
>Headcanon

>Literal manga scene where Future Sight is used that way

Sure. Like I said, let's drop the topic.

What accusation? I'm telling you that strongest 7-A Naruto is 4th War Sage Mode.

@Zarathustra

Luffy's stronger. Rasenshuriken is molecular hax, not AP.

I asked above how many clones can Sage Mode Naruto summon at the same time because for some reason I remember him barely being able to summon a few while in SM for some mechanics reasons (but I'm not sure).

Luffy's precog is better than SM's. Luffy had regular Precognition and was still fodderized by a Future Sight user.
 
> Speed equals.
> Luffy has precog soon, will move before Naruto.

I guess you do not know that both Naruto and Luffy are going to move at the same time, none have an advantage over each other at speed. Or you're just ignoring it for some reason.
Like I said, just get off topic!
Soon, it is impossible for Luffy to anticipate Naruto and no matter how much you feel about it. Will not happen!

That does not prevent me from using KN. Both are scaled by the same calculation. If you're telling me it's valid to use "more powerful forms," but by an unknown margin, then I'm okay with it and I can rephrase what I said.
 
If Luffy is watching Naruto's moves he'll move seconds before. Same speed, yes, but before Naruto.

If Naruto moves at the 3rd second Luffy will move at the 1st second, giving him the upper hand in speed despite being equalized.

"It is impossible for Luffy to anticipate Naruto and no matter what how much you feel about it. Will not happen!"

Okay, but why tho?
 
No. The battle would begin and both would make their move at the same time. Luffy would not move first because he can see the future and know what will happen.

No ... Both have the same speed.
For Luffy attack Naruto, he needs to get close.
For Naruto to make his jutsu, he just needs to move his hands and Naruto, in 90% of cases, begins the battle with clones.
Soon, Naruto needs less time to complete his move, so no matter if Luffy can see the move in the future, he can not stop it.

Logic and common sense!
 
I'm not too invested in this thread, but I was informed that a couple users here do need to calm down. Then again, HST crossovers in general do tend to. It's fine to continue debating, but people do need to do it in a more polite and calm matter. I'll only close it if majority consensus prefers it though.
 
The strongest 7A Naruto unless I missed something is the Fourth War Arc Naruto, the one before he actually gains full Kurama control. So no, Sage Mode fused with Ninetails Chakra Mode is not a thing.

Frog Kata is not better, the best advantage it has is the element of surprise. Naruto's lack of a haki equivalent, Luffy's rubber body and AP superiority renders that surprise rather null. There's no outer defense to ignore, all of Luffy's body even to his bones is elastic.

... How are shadow clones better versatility, what? Plus, they can actually be dealt with without much fuse. A combination of precognition seconds ahead and G2 speed amp would be rather effective shutting Naruto's attempts down or doing away with them using precise strikes.

Also CALACA, Naruto can summon Shadow Clones as normal. He is limited only when he has clones left behind gathering nature energy for him to recharge immediately once his current reserves are out. Something about summoning too many making his chakra get disturbed and dispel the clones gathering sage chakra.
 
@DDM right now the thread is okay. I don't know where the claimed accusations comes from, but I'll admite that I almost heated myself a while ago.

@MostPowerful

Oh, I think I know the problem. You think Luffy can only do this at the beginning in the match. I concede, Naruto has the chance to summon at the beginning of the fight, but my argument was aiming in a general way and not only at the beginning.

Naruto literally need to know that Luffy's watching the future. Luffy will move before because he's watching Naruto's actions before they take place. I have explained this a lot of times and I won't repeat anymore this part. Is up to the other people to vote now based on the present arguments.

Edit: Thank you Lancelot. So Naruto has to choosebetween spamming to defeat Luffy as soon as possible or summon a few to get other two clones gathering natural energy, correct? Both ways are dangerous. First option would leave him defenseless if he can't put Luffy down in the meantime and the second option is also dangerous since he'll have less clones to stop Luffy in place to gain more time in Sage Mode.
 
Funny thing is that I haven't properly voted so I vote for Luffy. Superior AP, precognition, endurance, resistances should give him the victory against Sage Mode Naruto.
 
Naruto usually starts with Kage Bushin, does this from Naruto Classic. He does not need to know that Luffy can see the future and therefore, the possibility of Luffy anticipating Naruto when he tries to create his starting clones is impossible.

Still, Naruto can simply create more and more clones, he does not necessarily have to let his clones run out. After that, if the clones are over, yeah... Luffy has a good chance to antecipate the clones creation, I never denied that Luffy could anticipate in MIDDLE THE BATTLE.. I said from the beginning that he can not anticipate the first use and that this could be fatal to Luffy, thanks to Naruto can spamming Rasengans, Fuuton Rasengans and Rasenshuriken.

Sage Mode, he has few. I think 3 or 5 clones and can use 2 rasenshurikens, before returning to Base, because creating many makes the clones that are gathering natural energy are dissipated (I think that's it!)...
 
So Naruto can't spam on Luffy while in Sage Mode even at the start of the fight. 2 FRS isn't too hard to dodge even without precognition and Naruto'd lose Sage Mode if he opens with it, which he won't because he's not an idiot.

This supports more my vote on Luffy in the scenarios I speculated above. Naruto has not enough clones to out-number Luffy (since he has been fighting in numerical disadvantage before even Pre-Timeskip) and his stamina is not good enough to outlast Luffy.
 
Naruto doesn't actually usually start with kagebushin by this state, as they are more of a tactical helping tool. His usual tactic of drowning enemies is barely a thing, but he'll totally use however many he thinks he needs be it for some special maneuver or more coordinated strike.

I have literally no clue what you mean luffy can't anticipate it. We dont act like a Character's precog goes online the moment the match starts and that he's just in a state of limbo before that, see literally any Ahzek Ahriman thread. Even if Naruto spammed right at the start, which I doubt, Luffy already knows clones are coming and can start thinking what to do from the start of the match.

And no, Ninetails Chakra Mode Naruto can abuse Rasengan and Rasenshurinken, but not clones. Tell me how many times he abuses the nunber of his clones in the war that isn't to assist multiple battlefields when he first joins in. He uses a few tactically or just prefers his chakra cloak abilities and CQC.

Also, ninja'd by ky comment xD.
 
@Lancelot

Naruto does not start with Kage Bushin in Sage Mode, for different reasons. The first one, he had clones that could be affected. The second use, he literally knew the weakness of something and went with it.
He used spamming clones several times, either against Gaara, or against Mizuki, Kaguya and etc., etc. Gigantic enemies are not a problem!

As I said several times and I will repeat for the last time ...
Luffy can not prevent this in the START OF COMBAT, so again bringing this is simply irrelevant. His argument is the same as that used by Calaca, who did not understand what I said from the beginning.
I did not argue about him not being able to anticipate them in the midst of combat or how he's going to deal with them, or with multiple barrages of energetic attacks.

Naruto used various spamming attacks against Kurama. He can do it with anyone he wants, he's done it before.
What Plot let him do or not does not matter. It's like arguing that Luffy can not anticipate because he never did.
Have you the skill and shown it before? So Naruto can do it and repeat it.

@Calaca


Only if he have clones storing natural energy. If it does not, it can spamming clones normally, at least, that's what I remember and what's on Wikia (and what was said by Lancelot) and so can catch Luffy with Rasenshuriken amid the spam of rasengans and fuuton rasengans. And I highly doubt that Naruto will continue in the same strategy when he realizes that Sage Mode can not handle Luffy, as you said, he is not stupid.

So ... Naruto just does not have several clones if it stores natural energy. If not, everything happens normally.
 
Again, I will vote for Inconclusive.

Luffy has better AP and Durability.
Naruto has better versatility and hax able to annihilate Luffy.
 
No, I am not talking about capability I am talking about mentality. Even against the Fox, Naruto abused shadow clones to make as many big attacks as he could on a gigantic target. Trying to drown someone in numbers is not something Naruto does as much later, and is not even really done during the War so I don't see him doing it here. A few clones? I could see that happen.
 
I think the vote count goes like this:

Luffy: 5 (BlahBlah, Kobster, PrinceofCounters, Lancelot and me)

Naruto: 1? (Zarathustra voted for him but IDK if Lancelot's comment was meant to debunk the reasons)

Ichigo: 1 (MostPowerful)

Let me know if I misses something or someone.
 
Chimpanzee man FRA

(never heard of either of these two just Monkey's reasons sound better plz dont kill me)
 
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