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Toaru Majutsu no Index Discussion Thread 7

She can't change her surroundings to a blackhole or or a big bang. No, what she can do is survive these two things due to being able to change the enviroment while inside these two things.

"If the conditions were right, she could survive being thrown onto the moon or Mars. In fact, she could survive being thrown into the center of a black hole or the Big Bang without issue. After all, her power would remake the area around her into the environment needed to survive."

It also seems that her power itself can't be used in a way to cause harm to others.

"

On the other hand, that was all her power could do.


She had nothing that was fundamentally meant to harm people.


She simply remade her surroundings into an ideal environment. She repeated the process over and over. It may have been similar to a child lost in an unfamiliar land crying and searching for a place to rest."
 
although I don't get that bit since it seems she can harm people plenty with her power. I must be missing something or reading it wrong.
 
Thanks for correction. I still dont get that part as well since she clearly kills Ryuusuke and his beasts through explosion, although it she had no intention to do that.
 
The key part is this:

She had nothing that was fundamentally meant to harm people.

Her power is to remake the environment around her into the ideal environment for a specific living creature. It's just that some of those environments can be dangerous or even lethal to other types of living creatures besides its target, but that's just a natural consequence of her power.

On the other hand, this kind of esper power makes it a lot lot harder to believe people didn't believe she had powers in the past. Like, we see her create fields of flowers by using it on butterflies and beetles, how could she have issues proving her power exists to skeptics?
 
This is the 3th esper we know that can survive a black hole (not counting teleporters), maybe Gunha could be the 4th? I'm sure guts would be able to ignore a black hole's gravity.
 
This is the 1st Esper. Accelerator can create black holes, most likely but it's doubtful he would be able to survive in one. Who is the other esper you are referring to? Kakine?
 
Accel can redirect gravity, a black hole wouldn't have oxygen, true, but he wouldn't die because it is a black hole. Post-Revival, yes.
 
@LazyHunter yea, I also wonder why people dont believe with her power. My speculation are:

1)Probably she do greater scale enviromental change in the past so people didnt notice what enviroment changes that she had done?

2)Phase related enviromental change?

3)Something similar with holistic esper does?
 
Btw, would a holistic esper be rated the same way a normal esper is, from level 0 to 5? Or they would have a fixed level, like teleporters, who are level 4s in most cases?

And what about their tier here?
 
Holistic esper is more like phenomenon rather than actual ability user. Did Accel clonoth implementation also count as holistic esper phenomenon?
 
Accel was compared to a Holistic, but unlike then he can punch you with the holistic phenomenon.

I think they would be something like: 10B, 8B with lasers/TK/etc, 4B with Holism(?), the same way Gabriel is 4B with AiH but can't use it in combat.
 
It looks like the first esper might be able to control the weather at a stronger degree than even Accelerator or Misaka.

That esper could control the planetary environment or the largescale climate.

Even Kumokawa could only think of a few espers on that level.

(The #1's vector control or the #3's high-voltage electricity. And when it comes to pure control of weather conditions, she must be stronger even than them.)

It should be noted that this was merely speculation on Kumokawa's part and it should also be noted that this was before Accelerator himself even realized he could manipulate the wind to control the weather and the climate. Mikoto I think used her powers to make lightning in OT1 but it's unknown if she used it before hand.

That said the first Esper would have a lot of applications to her power. I think probably even more than Accelerator.
 
Yes, it was in chapter 5. Chapter 6 has just been released though so the translation for Biohacker is now fully complete.
 
she seems more like a support esper than a combat esper, i mean she 1 needs animal nears her 2 can't control how they come out
 
Btw, since this is the verse i'm more active, i want to know, how good is my english currently, in a 0 to 10 scale? I will probably start to learn it at school this year, so i want to know how good i am before it happens.
 
I changed my answer since it wasn't really nesisary, but personally I never really saw anything different. so for me your english is good.
 
Eu sou brasileiro (i am brazillian), comecei a aprender inglês quando tinha 12 anos (started to learn english when i was 12 years old), agora tenho 15 (now i am 15 years old).
 
Scrlk666777 said:
It looks like the first esper might be able to control the weather at a stronger degree than even Accelerator or Misaka.
That esper could control the planetary environment or the largescale climate.

Even Kumokawa could only think of a few espers on that level.

(The #1's vector control or the #3's high-voltage electricity. And when it comes to pure control of weather conditions, she must be stronger even than them.)

It should be noted that this was merely speculation on Kumokawa's part and it should also be noted that this was before Accelerator himself even realized he could manipulate the wind to control the weather and the climate. Mikoto I think used her powers to make lightning in OT1 but it's unknown if she used it before hand.

That said the first Esper would have a lot of applications to her power. I think probably even more than Accelerator.
Click to expand...
Accelerator's ability isn't really focused on climate or environmental change to begin with, it's just an application to which he can do, and this is in regard to pure conditions. Accelerator for instance can't make a liveable space in a black hole because that's not what his ability is suited to, just a sub application.

On that logic it stands to reason why it'd be stronger in that regard, but not in terms of much else.
 
Actually, i learned on my own.

Also, this is the the as Mikoto being said to be the best esper with pure electric powers in GT1, even Accel being able to create Plasma. Actually, the only powers he can't replicate are Gunha's (and Kakine, since i don't think his wings are DM) and Mugino's.
 
This surprised you? Of course Mikoto would be the best when it came to pure electric powers since she can both generate and manipulate electricity and it's her speciality.

Although what GT1 actually meant was that she can generate the most electricity than any other esper of the same ability. She can generate up to 1,000,000 bolts.

Accelerator power is more based on manipulation though not replication. While he can't replicate let's say Kakine's and Mugino's powers he can manipulate both of these powers. And no it was pretty much heavily hinted in OT19 and NT6 that the wings weren't made of dark matter like Kakine originally thought. I think we got a hint of what they were made of in both OT13 and NT22 though since it's found out that demons like Coronzon and Qliphah both have similar energy to telesma but fundamentally different as well which is how Index described Accel's wings.

It's most likely the wings are related to the three trees as well as being related to true will.

For example I don't believe the wings give Accelerator calculation power, rather it's down to pure will why Accelerator can do the things he has done while the wings appeared.

Also your english is really good by the way. I've never noticed anything wrong. In fact your english is better than mine and it's actually my first and only langauge.
 
No, it Didn't surprise me, i was just adding information to what Accelerate said. And yeah, i said his wings weren't made of DM, i just forgot when that was said, my bad.


Thank you, never thought i was so good.
 
I asked Jasonsith to calc Gabriel's explosion feat. Here is the calc:

Mean distance between Sun and Earth (r1) = 1.496E+11 m Gravitational constant (G) = 6.674E-11 N*m^2/kg^2 Sun mass (M) = 1.9884E+30 kg Earth mass (m) = 5.97237E+24 kg

By Ep = |(G*M*m)/r1 - (G*M*m)/r2| Where r2 tends to infinitely large and (G*M*m)/r2

Escape KE = 5.29792E+33 J = 1.26623E+24 ton TNT (Planet)

Escape velocity = 42120.56416 m/s = Mach 122.8004786 (Massively Hypersonic)

What i do with it now?
 
There is a problem with that calc, I think.

Anyway it applies to nothing. It's a suicide attack that a form that Gabriel never reached maybe has.
 
It could be used as a "possible 5B via self destruction" for his H6C key, and his true form obviously scales above that, since that is one of the possibilities of what would happen if he tried to absorb too much energy to reach his true form.

But if there is a priblem with the calc, could you redo it?
 
Idk about the calc, but the feat itself is just imperfect summoned Gabriel attempting to retain 100% of its power and its body hitting capacity before that happened thus exploding. It could give a ballpark for theoretical Gabriel in heaven and for our purposes and by extension Mather's Archangels which he brought down completely and seemingly without incident.
 
The form in which the suicide move is maybe possible is the one were Gabriel already absorbed massive amounts of water and ice from the artic ocean. That is a theoretical form that was never reached, which we don't usually list on profiles.

Mathers angels wouldn't scale to this either. They also had physical forms and there is no indication that they were better summons than the WWIII one.


That calc only needs a minor fix (would lower the result by a factor of 10, but still planet level).
 
The version that could do the explosion (both the 5B and the 6B) is the H6C, but with all the artic ocean already absorbed, actually not even the 6B key was used in the series, since the 1000km explosion and the full absorption of the artic ocean never happened. The current 6B Gabriel is "pure archangel" which i think means that is his true form in heaven, which never appeared in the series if the one Mathers summoned wasn't the true form, but Mathers is still 6B for some reason.
 
@DT Well, the Angel Fall manifestation was imperfect and weakened by the attribute swap/element distortion. Fiamma's WW3 summoning method was derived from that method and stated to be unstable incorporating the two angel properties, while it's body was composed of just the residual Telesma of Angel Fall. Pure Archangel is just this without being weakened by being a mix of two different angels, it's body still only has access to the leftover Telesma, which is why it attempted to replenish its original power forcefully by absorbing all the water and ice and it is stated it would explode when it's body hit capacity at a certain %.

Them being physical isn't the issue, Telesma is the medium used to sustain an angel in physical world. We know, Mathers summon is not weakened by the distortion or composed of leftover Telsma nor was it stated to be an unstable. It is 100% superior as they are described as merely descending from Heaven without any stated detriment.

Can't speak on the calc.
 
I remember someone saying his profile wasn't needed since he had the same powers as Touma and the only change was his personality.
 
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