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Toaru Majutsu no Index Discussion Thread 4
- Thread starter ZERO7772
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Kanzaki x Washing Machine is still best couple, followed closely by Touma x Thor.
I accept Touma x Yuriko as 3rd best, though.
I accept Touma x Yuriko as 3rd best, though.
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I'm not really into shipping, or at least not the "pick a ship and defend it to death" type of shipping. I'd say I like most of Touma's moments with Mikoto, Misaki and Othinus, but I can't really pick any of those ships over the others. I'd also really enjoy it if Kamachi used Index more (with Touma and in general) since she has some good moments too.
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Quick question, does accel have macro quantum destruction. Indeed accel can manipulated electron and reflecting photon. But can accel really turn his oppenent into quantum destruction
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he never used it cause he never had the chance (when in white wing form he fought gabriel that is made of thelema and touma but he lost on pourpose there) it is hypotized but he never used it , he did use matter manipulation vs kankine but it only dispers him as he is made of DM and it's on the quark size so he could only controll it not destroy it (to destroy DM he need mugino lasers)Trulybehind said:
tdrl: he used it once on kankine DM clone and never used the ranged form cause he never had to
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He can because thats how his power works but doesn't usually go beyond ripping bodies apart. Probably due to not needing to do more than thatTrulybehind said:
@OP
Omg no please remove the picture in the op T_T
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He hasn't done that, so we don't know if he can.Trulybehind said:
Yomi_Schwarz
She/Her- 2,618
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About time that was made
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Ah oke so theoretically accel can do that, but he never show those feat yet
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https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/U...hty_Thor_speed_-_To_Aru_Majutsu_no_Index_calc
^thoughts on this?
Thor in the end does move the planet and not just teleport it, right?
^thoughts on this?
Thor in the end does move the planet and not just teleport it, right?
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It is just hax with the ability to work against that level of durability. Carissa doesn't have that much power and the spell also doesn't use that much power, hence negating that also doesn't require that much power.
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New Railgun chapter. Shuri's ninja teammates pull out some cool tricks, though it's basically confirmed those three are the ones killed by Enshuu in NT4 (Yasu was one of the three, at least).
Should Ayame Fusou get an upgrade to speed and physical AP/Durability for her show against the hunting wasp robots? Shuri might end up Street level like the other ninja in the series, going by how casually she's stabbing her "kunai" into robots.
Should Ayame Fusou get an upgrade to speed and physical AP/Durability for her show against the hunting wasp robots? Shuri might end up Street level like the other ninja in the series, going by how casually she's stabbing her "kunai" into robots.
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I think a speed upgrade would be difficult, given that we don't know how fast the wasps are.
If we assume they are made out of steel, I think an AP upgrade to street level can work.
I think Shuri can likely be put in the same ballpark as other Ninja in strength.
If we assume they are made out of steel, I think an AP upgrade to street level can work.
I think Shuri can likely be put in the same ballpark as other Ninja in strength.
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We can just put an "at least" for her current speed, I guess. Plus adding martial arts skills and the resonance trick.
The only things we can compare the wasps to are other Type-series robots. The centipede in the same chapter was simply said to be made of metal and the Great Danes are titanium alloy + synthetic resins.
The only things we can compare the wasps to are other Type-series robots. The centipede in the same chapter was simply said to be made of metal and the Great Danes are titanium alloy + synthetic resins.
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Given that they are futuristic high tech stuff made for combat I think it is ok to assume that the material they are made of has durability comparable to steel, so I think street level is fine.
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Sure, no problem.
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Those are unproven assumptions/speculations so not really. We know that the miracle part is wrong, since Touma could touch Meigo Arisa without IB affecting her, and the "negates red string of fate" is just a joke about how he is constantly meeting and saving girls, thus "gathering a harem".
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Aisa's miracles and miracles from God are two different things though; the former can't be negated because IB sees it as natural (just like World Rejector) and is from our world while the latter is alien. There is definitely the reason why Touma not only misfortunate, but had affected other people's luck during his childhood.
By the way, shouldn't Touma be listed also as having resistance to space-time manipulation(or reality warping?) from the fact that the world was recreated around him by Othinus and he was somewhat unaffected by it
By the way, shouldn't Touma be listed also as having resistance to space-time manipulation(or reality warping?) from the fact that the world was recreated around him by Othinus and he was somewhat unaffected by it
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we do know that IB negates the changes in fate that affect him thoughtLazyHunter said:
edit: and he could touch meigo cause she was human all in all, she was just created as an after effect of the miracle that happened (same reason he can touch anyone in the world after othinus recreated it)
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There is no other type of miracles shown in the verse, what you are talking about is Index speculating IB might negate God's blessings, and luck being seen as a divine blessing in Japan. And no, Kamachi told us that Arisa not being negated was a miracle, so miracles > IB.DexWald said:
Not really. That might just be a specific interaction between IB and Phase Manipulation that doesn't affect other types of magic and other types of Reality Warping, just like him being protected from Vento's Divine Punishment doesn't mean he is protected from all types of magic. It could have also been Othinus keeping him alive to torture him, because that was her whole goal during the novel, just like the nerfed Niang-Niang and Nephthys kept Kakeru alive outside Earth's atmosphere.
No clear evidence of resistance, so no resistance.
@Malox1696
Nope. Arisa was not fully human, and as I mentioned above was shielded from IB by a miracle.
The only explanations we have for the miracles are the movie's director calling them an intervention of fate, and in NT18 the "sparks" that can cause fortune/misfortune to occur (like Lilith dying as a baby) being failed miracles. So as far as we know: IB > sparks, but actual miracles > IB.
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so what do we count "sparks" as ? btw didn't the gods mention that touma is unafacted by the changes in destiny here ?LazyHunter said:
"There is such a thing as unavoidable destiny. There are powerful rails that cannot be overcome by an individual's decisions. But even that is ultimately nothing more than the result of an unseen clash between the opinions of Magic Gods. Of course, we have no intention of harming any specific individual. In fact, the individuals clinging to this puny planet never enter our field of vision. Still, our actions are constantly affecting the outside world and make great changes in the world. It can be quite a problem."
Talk of fortune and misfortune reminded Kamijou of the Saints in addition to himself.
One of them was so constantly dealt a lucky hand that she feared those around her would always be dealt an unlucky hand.
"That is the same," readily stated the High Priest. "It is true Saints fall on the fortunate side of things, but they had no say in being born a Saint. That means there were some larger rails in place there. The very fact that they receive that fortune as Saints was determined by that unshakeable destiny."
At that point, the mummy laughed dryly.
"Although, if we're talking about destiny, then you would be the sole exception. Thanks to your Imagine Breaker, even the vague power of us Magic Gods is uniformly leveled out. That keeps any large waves away from you alone and keeps you in constant misfortune."
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The sparks are caused by collisions between the phases. Magic Gods control phases, and True Gremlin's problem was that they knew their unconscious desires and movements affect Phases, thus creating sparks. IB negates these sparks. But it doesn't appear to be able to negate actual miracles, which are apparently caused by fate manipulating events/reality.
As mentioned before, just because IB negates one thing doesn't mean he negates everything similar to it. He negates sparks, but that doesn't mean he can negate fate/destiny manipulation that works in a completely different way.
As mentioned before, just because IB negates one thing doesn't mean he negates everything similar to it. He negates sparks, but that doesn't mean he can negate fate/destiny manipulation that works in a completely different way.
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Aleister manipulates the sparks into an invisible physical attack. The attack doesn't hit IB, therefore IB can't negate it.
The movie's plot was still written by Kamachi, and in NT18 he tolds us how fortune/misfortune are the result of "failed miracles", so miracles being actual fate fits the setting and what Kamachi told us about them pretty well.
In fact, Aleister literally tells us at the end of the movie that the "miracles" caused by Arisa were "wishes powerful enough to interfere with the laws of causality to change the fates of people". So IB cannot undo miracles, which are literally causality/fate manipulation.
The movie's plot was still written by Kamachi, and in NT18 he tolds us how fortune/misfortune are the result of "failed miracles", so miracles being actual fate fits the setting and what Kamachi told us about them pretty well.
In fact, Aleister literally tells us at the end of the movie that the "miracles" caused by Arisa were "wishes powerful enough to interfere with the laws of causality to change the fates of people". So IB cannot undo miracles, which are literally causality/fate manipulation.
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No individual can do it besides her as far as we know. She herself was split from Shutaura due to a miracle, this one apparently caused by the wishes of all the 88 people in the plane inducing the same distortion + Ladylee's magic ritual in the Orion synergizing with the shared wish in an unexpected way. Though even Aleister admits that's a simplification of things.
How would a miracle affect a magic god is not known.
One can assume so, given IB is consistently unable to undo the normal results of magic (can negate a fireball, but cannot undo the fact that the fireball burned someone to ashes and bring them back to life).
How would a miracle affect a magic god is not known.
One can assume so, given IB is consistently unable to undo the normal results of magic (can negate a fireball, but cannot undo the fact that the fireball burned someone to ashes and bring them back to life).
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Ah, I misunderstood you. He could have protected her with IB before she died (that's what the Golden Dawn was using IB for, to protect themselves from sparks), but he destroyed that version of IB when he crushed the organization. He tried to search for it again, but didn't make it in time.
"That was the meaning behind Crowley's journey," said Mina. "He was searching for a way to protect his daughter who was at the mercy of the phases and sparks and who would suddenly lose her life in but a few years. …And just as the cards showed, he did not make it in time."
As she gave her smooth answer, the mourning clothes woman looked down at Kamijou's right hand.
Imagine Breaker.
"That was the meaning behind Crowley's journey," said Mina. "He was searching for a way to protect his daughter who was at the mercy of the phases and sparks and who would suddenly lose her life in but a few years. …And just as the cards showed, he did not make it in time."
As she gave her smooth answer, the mourning clothes woman looked down at Kamijou's right hand.
Imagine Breaker.
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We do not know how exactly IB can be used to exorcise sparks, or even the timing for this use. It's possible it has to be used when the fortune or misfortune is going to happen and not before, maybe the target of the sparks needs to be alive, etc.
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"That was the meaning behind Crowley's journey," said Mina. "He was searching for a way to protect his daughter who was at the mercy of the phases and sparks and who would suddenly lose her life in but a few years. …And just as the cards showed, he did not make it in time." And just as the cards showed here means at the tarot that can predict the future that he was doing, not IB, touma was thinking about IB and how he negates fortune around him
" He flipped over several cards sitting atop a heavy desk. Kamijou did not know the details, but when he saw those cards that looked like playing cards with more involved artwork, the word tarot came to mind. "
"Allan had not welcomed the young man as a magician or a teacher. He had welcomed him as a lonely man does a good friend.
His cards had likely already told him his fate."
if he just needed IB he could have waited before he attacked the cabal, problably by "did not make it in time" she means he did not find a solution before his daughter death (as we know IB did go to touma straight away after he was born so there is no way he could have gotten it sonner)
" He flipped over several cards sitting atop a heavy desk. Kamijou did not know the details, but when he saw those cards that looked like playing cards with more involved artwork, the word tarot came to mind. "
"Allan had not welcomed the young man as a magician or a teacher. He had welcomed him as a lonely man does a good friend.
His cards had likely already told him his fate."
if he just needed IB he could have waited before he attacked the cabal, problably by "did not make it in time" she means he did not find a solution before his daughter death (as we know IB did go to touma straight away after he was born so there is no way he could have gotten it sonner)
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Sorry, but I don't understand your argument here at all.
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