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definitely agree able
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Can you please provide scans for these when able, I'm not familiar with DB enough to know these hard contradictions?I personally still disagree and it's a topic been brought up numerous times; while it's been written more elaborately combined with also being more organized than previous attempts, I still have quite a bit of contentions. But most of these are mainly neutral stuff; not to mention, there are still plenty of things the DBS Anime contradicts Kai's continuity just as hard as it contradicts the Toei Anime.
Is against DBZ logic
So why is it used in DBGT? By this logic not even Toei should be used for GT.So, Goku and Vegeta desperately needed the fusion in other to defeat a version of Buu, but then they can fight a far stronger version on their without a single piece of explanation other than "we defuse? what?" and you react like that's logical in powerscaling or story-telling? Good to know people involve here are all analyzing this with a critical mind...
The thing about bardock is that the movie retconned both manga and anime since we can see bardock in his og armor when frieza gets a flashback of himI personally still disagree and it's a topic been brought up numerous times; while it's been written more elaborately combined with also being more organized than previous attempts, I still have quite a bit of contentions. But most of these are mainly neutral stuff; not to mention, there are still plenty of things the DBS Anime contradicts Kai's continuity just as hard as it contradicts the Toei Anime. Prime example being Bardock's backstory being completely rewritten by the DBS Broly movie.
But going to have to wait for a day I am off work before elaborating my contentions.
Bardock's backstory was rewritten by Toriyama himself, DB Minus manga, Broly Movie's Bardock backstory section was adapted from DB Minus and we all know that Akira Toriyama is heavily involved in Broly moviePrime example being Bardock's backstory being completely rewritten by the DBS Broly movie.
The Bardock special was an event that happened in the anime and manga. The guidebook and Toriyama’s statement + the original manga show this.I personally still disagree and it's a topic been brought up numerous times; while it's been written more elaborately combined with also being more organized than previous attempts, I still have quite a bit of contentions. But most of these are mainly neutral stuff; not to mention, there are still plenty of things the DBS Anime contradicts Kai's continuity just as hard as it contradicts the Toei Anime. Prime example being Bardock's backstory being completely rewritten by the DBS Broly movie.
But going to have to wait for a day I am off work before elaborating my contentions.
WOW, WHAT AMAZING LOGIC! Why not just interpreting the BoG as Goku being so strong that he can barely contain his Universal level of power lmfao.So where Toei can introduce galaxy obliterating feats of universal feats and its consequences are self contained to its own continuity, Kai doing so directly impacts future events, where we know the intent to be universal was Battle of Gods. Realistically, I’d just have the Kai 2-C feat be an outlier due to the wider narrative context created by Battle of Gods being introduced.
For some reason even Whis had a star.
When it comes to the Kai 2-C feat, the only characters who should scale to it in Z are Buuhan and Vegito unless you want to bring up the Kid Buu statements in which case Buutenks/Buuhan is also stated to be stronger.Strym, I don't know if that’s a valid comparison. Toei-Z is Non-Canon material that can do whatever it wants. Kai is (by the logic of this thread) a show bound by the overall narrative intent of its writer and is forced to fall in line within known canon facts.
So where Toei can introduce galaxy obliterating feats of universal feats and its consequences are self contained to its own continuity, Kai doing so directly impacts future events, where we know the intent to be universal was Battle of Gods. Realistically, I’d just have the Kai 2-C feat be an outlier due to the wider narrative context created by Battle of Gods being introduced.
Not in anime, I am afraid.Buutenks/Buuhan is also stated to be stronger.
You have to remember that Super Buu remembers being Kid Buu and yet considers these Absorption powerups as a Boost instead of Downgrade.Not in anime, I am afraid.
I think that's the Chozenshuu that was released as an updated Daizenshuu before DBS but right after BoG and RoF, so that would make sense.Crazy how there’s a lot of proof for Kai being canon, but one of the argument against is not being comfortable about scaling.(Even when this is a canonicity thread)
For some reason even Whis had a star.
Each incarnation of Buu considers themselves to be there own beings while still possessing the previous ones memories. Buutenks still remembered Goku from his time as Fat Buu despite the fact he's an fundamentally different being. It's a similar premise here.He wasn't exactly conscious or what he'd consider himself as Kid Buu, so I don't think that really works.
I think that's the Chozenshuu that was released as an updated Daizenshuu before DBS but right after BoG and RoF, so that would make sense.
Each incarnation of Buu considers themselves to be there own beings while still possessing the previous ones memories. Buutenks still remembered Goku from his time as Fat Buu despite the fact he's an fundamentally different being. It's a similar premise here.
He wasn't exactly conscious or what he'd consider himself as Kid Buu, so I don't think that really works.
Dude you have no idea how much we would gotta overhaul the profiles (ie, renaming them, merging some of them, splitting them etc) might as well split the verse page into two (manga and anime)You know, will this end up removing all the DBS stuff from the DBZ manga profiles?
The Chozenshuu part is relevant to the thread, because it was establishing that Z Bardock's appearance in Kai does not stand against it, since Bardock was considered Canon by Toriyama. Establishing that another canon character--Whis--Has the star due to time of release and not because the guide is inaccurate is thread-relevant. That said, I understand that a lot of derailing is happening. I just wanted to clarify that I wasn't, because...I wasn't.Can we all please stop derailing the thread
Kai doing so doesn't impact anything. Characters being 2-C before the battle of gods arc is not contradicting to anything. The whole point of battle of gods was to show how goku has literally transcended into a new realm of power, him and beerus. It's not about just performing universal feats. Not to mention this logic crumbles when you see how much EFFORT buuhan had to put into it, he was literally screaming his lungs out in a fit of rage and nearly destroyed the universe because of it. Vegito actually had to tryhard just to stop him. Whereas goku nearly did it in a couple punches alone, not even at full power. It suddenly becoming an outlier just because you don't like it is incredibly dishonest. When it's toei, its acceptable, but it becomes canon and now its a problem? Lol.Strym, I don't know if that’s a valid comparison. Toei-Z is Non-Canon material that can do whatever it wants. Kai is (by the logic of this thread) a show bound by the overall narrative intent of its writer and is forced to fall in line within known canon facts.
So where Toei can introduce galaxy obliterating feats or universal feats and its consequences are self contained to its own continuity, Kai doing so directly impacts future events, where we know the intent to be universal was Battle of Gods. Realistically, I’d just have the Kai 2-C feat be an outlier due to the wider narrative context created by Battle of Gods being introduced.
Kai doing so doesn't impact anything. Characters being 2-C before the battle of gods arc is not contradicting to anything. The whole point of battle of gods was to show how goku has literally transcended into a new realm of power, him and beerus. It's not about just performing universal feats. Not to mention this logic crumbles when you see how much EFFORT buuhan had to put into it, he was literally screaming his lungs out in a fit of rage and nearly destroyed the universe because of it. Vegito actually had to tryhard just to stop him. Whereas goku nearly did it in a couple punches alone, not even at full power. It suddenly becoming an outlier just because you don't like it is incredibly dishonest. When it's toei, its acceptable, but it becomes canon and now its a problem? Lol.
Whhhhat? You realize Goku in the Anime had to learn how to fight with Universal strength right? Because he couldn't control it? Goku having universal power already makes this entire moment make absolutely no sense.Kai doing so doesn't impact anything. Characters being 2-C before the battle of gods arc is not contradicting to anything.
Yes...and this realm of power was signified by said UNIVERSAL FEATS.The whole point of battle of gods was to show how goku has literally transcended into a new realm of power, him and beerus. It's not about just performing universal feats.
No...because by the logic of Kai and Toei, Goku got considerably stronger. Goku went from beneath Buuhan and Vegito, to as strong (if not stronger than Kid Buu) who was "the most powerful Buu" in the Anime (stated a whole bunch of times.) In comparison to the Manga, in which Goku was still weaker than Buuhan.Not to mention this logic crumbles when you see how much EFFORT buuhan had to put into it, he was literally screaming his lungs out in a fit of rage and nearly destroyed the universe because of it. Vegito actually had to tryhard just to stop him.
Didn't Goku literally do a Ki Dragon Power up and dig into the higher reserves of his power to perform the feat? He definitely wasn't going all out, and it was casually happening off his blows, but he wasn't straight up not trying. Further, Toei's Dragon Ball Continuity and Canon are totally different. There's over half a dozen extra arcs of scaling to consider (Dead Zone, Cooler's Revenge, Fusion Reborn, Father of Goku, History of Trunks, Garlic Jr's Return, Otherworld Tournament, etc.) added on to the pre-existing material, additional lore to canon moments limited that continuity (Goku's meeting of Mutaito, Gohan's training in the wilds, expansion of the Afterlife and Dabura in the Buu Saga, the Saiyans exploits against the Tuffles in the Saiyan and Frieza Sagas, etc.), on top of it's own unique sequel series (GT). It's very disingenious to act like they're remotely the same as Canon when on a foundational level they're NOT.Whereas goku nearly did it in a couple punches alone, not even at full power. It suddenly becoming an outlier just because you don't like it is incredibly dishonest. When it's toei, its acceptable, but it becomes canon and now its a problem? Lol.
So are you still neutral? Because ddms arguments have been addressed in terms of pure canonicity.I'll address the "Characters being 2-C before the battle of gods arc is not contradicting to anything" argument in a different thread that focuses on scaling since this one is just for canonicity.
Because Tilted replied to me and then I was compulsed to respond which inadvertently caused derail. Egg on my face.why talking about scaling in this thread?
It can just be talked about in another thread, its all good. Just waiting for more staff or for damages thoughts.Because Tilted replied to me and then I was compulsed to respond which inadvertently caused derail. Egg on my face.
Anyway, I don't see any issues with Kai being canon myself.
Yes, scaling will be dealt in another thread, however do you agree with the canonicity aspect?I'll address the "Characters being 2-C before the battle of gods arc is not contradicting to anything" argument in a different thread that focuses on scaling since this one is just for canonicity.
We haven't forgotten about the thread, just waiting on DDM. No need to bump this my guy.Bump
I'd do it againWe haven't forgotten about the thread, just waiting on DDM. No need to bump this my guy.
there is none. DDM's only point was bunk because that Bardock situation was a retcon across the entire franchise, not just the anime.DDM mentioned there are more things that contradict the canoncity, so I'll see what evidence / scans they have to bring up.