"Time, huh?" | Green Lantern vs Ben 10 | 11-12-0

[Chariot190]

Big fan of "Hal holds back because his morals won't allow him to kill a kid... but he'll nuke the planet.'

Why, are we assuming the planet is full with civs?

These are the most Out of Character arguments I've seen for s DC character ever.

Scanning is in character, doesn't require prep, and can be done in less than a second.

Not only he doesn't use normal punches in fights ever,

He throws hands constantly, why do you think we even know what his striking strength is to begin with? Because he's flat out punched people on his level.

relying in constructs for everything,

That, isn't true? If it was he wouldn't even have 90% of the abilities he does, because he'd just be using constructs, right?

but also all his Haxes are never use by him in character,

Except when they are, and nobody is arguing he uses his wild haxes, dude, he literally just needs to touch him once and he wins.

they haven't been used since before our parents were born, in a different continuity, and specific contexts.

You do know Rebirth is essentially canon composite right?

Also, "Hal scans" is just another OOC thing, that even his profiles states that requires time and it's not the first move, and is an active ability.

"Scan: GL Rings can analyze a target comprehensively, determining its identity, power source, power level, threat level, weaknesses, capabilities, etc. This takes a bit of time to complete, though."

You talking about this? Yeah the BIT of time is like a second my dude, you could just check the actual scans linked.
The profile literally links examples that take less than a second, "time" in question is negligible.
And also "OOC".

We’re talking about the guy who absorbed the Big Bang and threw it at someone. I think he can match little ol Hal here.

Hal is 2-C here, not that it matters. He absorbed the Big Bang and thre it at someone? Sure, cool, and?
He'd absorb the 5-A blast Hal throws at him and throws it back at the 2-C.... Do you not see the very blatant problem with arguing why the dude who absorbs energy, absorbing a negligible amount isn't gonna help against the other dude who's multiple infinities above the attack Feedback would, in theory absorb?

Oh sure you could argue he absorbs the ring, except with what range? he doesn't have the range to drain it from a large distance, which, they're fighting at so, ya know, pretty big problem in your argument there.

So no, pretty sure based on what's actually on the profiles, Hal snaps his fingers once after the funny alien absorbs a 5-A attack.

 

[Lort15]

Range: Standard Melee Range, Tens of Meters by stretching, Hundreds of Meters with energy attacks

Hundreds Of Meters would be enough range to absorb energy tbh

 

[Chariot190]

Range: Standard Melee Range, Tens of Meters by stretching, Hundreds of Meters with energy attacks

Hundreds Of Meters would be enough range to absorb energy tbh

They start kilometers apart due to SBA lad.

 

[ShionAH]

Chariots argument is that after Ben absorbs Hal's energy, Hal will just tank his own attack and then one shot Ben without an energy attack

 

[MintyBoi1]

Hal is 2-C here, not that it matters. He absorbed the Big Bang and thre it at someone? Sure, cool, and?
He'd absorb the 5-A blast Hal throws at him and throws it back at the 2-C.... Do you not see the very blatant problem with arguing why the dude who absorbs energy, absorbing a negligible amount isn't gonna help against the other dude who's multiple infinities above the attack Feedback would, in theory absorb?

Oh sure you could argue he absorbs the ring, except with what range? he doesn't have the range to drain it from a large distance, which, they're fighting at so, ya know, pretty big problem in your argument there.

So no, pretty sure based on what's actually on the profiles, Hal snaps his fingers once after the funny alien absorbs a 5-A attack.

I feel like you don’t get what I said. Feedback who in base is 5-A absorbed something that created the 1-C to 1-B Annihilargh universe and immediately amped himself in all physical stats to that level to destroy his enemy. He can take a 2-C, 3-C, whatever Green Lantern is energy construct which bro should start with and just blow a hole through him with it.

Tens of Meters with stretching, Hundreds of Meters with Energy. So yeah.

 

[Chariot190]

I feel like you don’t get what I said. Feedback who in base is 5-A absorbed something that created the 1-C to 1-B Annihilargh universe and immediately amped himself in all physical stats to that level to destroy his enemy. He can take a 2-C, 3-C, whatever Green Lantern is energy construct which bro should start with and just blow a hole through him with it.

GL would use a 5-A energy construct because that's all he's allowed to do.

Do you really not see the glaring problem here?
"He absorbed a 1-C thing and amped himself to 1-C", that is cool.

That is not the same as "He absorbed a 5-A thing, and amped himself to 2-C".

Which is what you're arguing.

Prove Feedback would amp himself infinities, off a finite neglible attack, if you can not do so, stop wasting my time.

Tens of Meters with stretching, Hundreds of Meters with Energy. So yeah.

Yeah, not enough? How close do you think they're fighting at? SBA is kilometers, hundreds of meters is quite literally useless. Which, kinda my point, he ain't absorbing from the ring directly, he literally can't, cool he drains a fodder energy construct that doesn't help him bridge the stat gap, and Hal just does literally anything else, even just flicking his wrist, and ko's him due to bro being a glasscannon.

 

[GeneralSol16]

Why, are we assuming the planet is full with civs?

It doesn't matter at all, lol. Hal never nukes planets even if they're desolated, wtf.

Scanning is in character, doesn't require prep, and can be done in less than a second.

Hal scans AFTER seeing that his avarage moves don't work, which even then, he doesn't
50 occasions where he scans VS other 726 issues where he doesn't. That's the problem with comics, something "consistent" is not when you compared to this other 50 years of history.

He throws hands constantly, why do you think we even know what his striking strength is to begin with? Because he's flat out punched people on his level.

No, lol.
He uses constructs to punch, even against Wesker or equal opponents, he creates constricts in his fists.

That, isn't true? If it was he wouldn't even have 90% of the abilities he does, because he'd just be using constructs, right?

Wtf is that logic? He can do all of those things, but he doesn't because they were used once in all of his history. And funnily enough, they weren't used in combat.

Except when they are, and nobody is arguing he uses his wild haxes, dude, he literally just needs to touch him once and he wins.

Sure, he can punch as hard as he wishes, Ben will just keep amping himself.

You do know Rebirth is essentially canon composite right?

No, the crisis were rebooted until Infinite Frontier, not Rebirth. And even then, DC suffered regions after that, scaling Pre-Crisis to everything else is just against how the character are currently portrayed.

"Scan: GL Rings can analyze a target comprehensively, determining its identity, power source, power level, threat level, weaknesses, capabilities, etc. This takes a bit of time to complete, though."

You talking about this? Yeah the BIT of time is like a second my dude, you could just check the actual scans linked.
The profile literally links examples that take less than a second, "time" in question is negligible.
And also "OOC"

Extremely OOC to assume that he'll do that as first move.

Hal is 2-C here, not that it matters. He absorbed the Big Bang and thre it at someone? Sure, cool, and?
He'd absorb the 5-A blast Hal throws at him and throws it back at the 2-C.... Do you not see the very blatant problem with arguing why the dude who absorbs energy, absorbing a negligible amount isn't gonna help against the other dude who's multiple infinities above the attack Feedback would, in theory absorb?

Hal is "infinites" above him, cool. Ben can absorb bigger infinites of amount of energy, he will just get absorbed from his constructs and aura.
He will absorb a 5-A blast, and returning it as a 2-C blast thanks to him amping above Jordan.

Oh sure you could argue he absorbs the ring, except with what range? he doesn't have the range to drain it from a large distance, which, they're fighting at so, ya know, pretty big problem in your argument there.

Dude, Hal is not kilometers away from Ben, he's like, 10 Meyers according to SBA, so he will get sucked out of power the moment Ben sees that Hal uses energy to do everything.

So no, pretty sure based on what's actually on the profiles, Hal snaps his fingers once after the funny alien absorbs a 5-A attack.

Except when Ben absorbs his blast and/or his energy directly from him, amps himself above him and then sucks him into a zombie.

 

[Celestial_Scaler25]

Yes, the dude who's 2-C looking at the 5-A glasscanon funny knocking him out with the numerous other methods that don't rely on energy, which he'd know to do, because the funny alien drained a negligible 5-A blast or because Hal has info anal.

Isn't Hal's info limited to the data in the ring? It stores all known data regarding a certain species in it's memory like a computer as memory recalls. Can it scan beings and immediately know it's weaknesses, Ben and Conductiods wouldn't be part of the DC universe, so would the ring even have data regarding their species?

Because he has scanning and info analysis?
Ben could do the same too if he started with an alien that enables such ploys, but, you've argued everything but the funny brain dude.

He'd likely use the crabby brain dude mid fight. He'd choose funny brain dude if he had prep.

"Range: Standard Melee Range, Tens of Meters by stretching, Hundreds of Meters with energy attacks"

He'd just absorb energy constructs before it his him. Hal's gonna run out of power eventually.

Oh yeah sure, except if he turns Feedback he isn't gonna be using energy?

Why not tho? Isn't Hal also super overconfident and usually shoot first ask questions later. He'd likely take 3 or 4 shots before coming up with a counter strategy.

Yeah, if Feedback, who just gets laid out with a love tap.

The Omnitrix's high regen counters physical attacks.

Except, wrong, as we established ages ago, energy is limited via safety protocol. cool, he absorbs a 5-A blast, against a dude who is 2-C....
Surely you see the problem here.

So... Hal's energy attacks would be useless then?

And you realize that makes things even worse right? If Hal is faced with an object the funny ring cant analyze, he isn't gonna mess around or take any chances.

As said, would has info analysis work on a character not from his Universe?

As said before, this is the ring holding data of species based of data uploaded into it.

 

[Chariot190]

It doesn't matter at all, lol. Hal never nukes planets even if they're desolated, wtf.

he literally has tho

Hal scans AFTER seeing that his avarage moves don't work, which even then, he doesn't
50 occasions where he scans VS other 726 issues where he doesn't. That's the problem with comics, something "consistent" is not when you compared to this other 50 years of history.

Oh we really are just ignoring context huh.

He scans the unknown, consistently, constantly, yeah you're right he isn't scanning every time he fights Supes, or Sinestro, why would he? He already knows what they can do.

Have him face some unknown foe or alien he's never seen before and he's scanning, hell he'll scan even if he's not in a fight if it's against something he isn't sure of, he'll scan if something even a lil weird happens he can't explain.

No, lol.
He uses constructs to punch, even against Wesker or equal opponents, he creates constricts in his fists.

"No lol", isn't an argument.
We don't go by what you think, we go by what the profiles say.

Not withstanding he's literally just flatout punched dudes like Supes before in the face but go on.

Wtf is that logic? He can do all of those things, but he doesn't because they were used once in all of his history. And funnily enough, they weren't used in combat.

Except several were done in combat. And you tell me, it's your logic? If it's bad that's on you.

Sure, he can punch as hard as he wishes, Ben will just keep amping himself.

How when he's out cold?

No, the crisis were rebooted until Infinite Frontier, not Rebirth. And even then, DC suffered regions after that, scaling Pre-Crisis to everything else is just against how the character are currently portrayed.

We aren't using Infinite Frontier, and hate to break it to you but, that's literally how we scale Rebirth on the wiki, and properly so, why do you think every stat justification for Rebirth, the key you're using, is "yeah the same as post-crisis lmao".
If you don't like it, you shouldn't have picked that key, yet you did, so tough luck.

Extremely OOC to assume that he'll do that as first move.

Literally all the time dog.

Hal is "infinites" above him, cool. Ben can absorb bigger infinites of amount of energy, he will just get absorbed from his constructs and aura.

Yeah, he is, and he could, if Hal wasn't literally limited to 5-A initially.

He will absorb a 5-A blast, and returning it as a 2-C blast thanks to him amping above Jordan.

That, literally isn';t how it works, nor is described on the profile. Don't just make stuff up to argue lad. Nowhere, on any Ben 10 profile, does it say that "oh Feedback absorbs energy and when he does it amplifies him literal infinites above the thing he absorbed". If anything, every description we have on profiles, say it's 1:1.

Dude, Hal is not kilometers away from Ben, he's like, 10 Meyers according to SBA, so he will get sucked out of power the moment Ben sees that Hal uses energy to do everything.

"Starting distance: The characters start as far away from each other as the highest range of the fighters is, but a maximum of 4 kilometers. For example, if one character has a range of 10 meter and the other has a range of 20 meter they start 20 meter apart. However if the range of one character is 10 meter and the range of the other is 5 kilometer, they start only 4 kilometer apart.
If the character with the higher range is limited to melee combat, having neither ranged attacks nor weapons that expand their reach, then the starting range will be set to their reach plus three steps of the character with the lower step length. This is to ensure that the characters have a minimal ability to make use of positioning.
If extreme advantages are generated via this distance to one side, a balanced alternative should be discussed in the thread."

They start 4km away as per SBA, not 10m.

Except when Ben absorbs his blast and/or his energy directly from him, amps himself above him and then sucks him into a zombie.

With what range? All before he's touched once?

 

[Chariot190]

Isn't Hal's info limited to the data in the ring? It stores all known data regarding a certain species in it's memory like a computer as memory recalls. Can it scan beings and immediately know it's weaknesses, Ben and Conductiods wouldn't be part of the DC universe, so would the ring even have data regarding their species?

Yeah? that's why it takes a second or so, it actually has to scan stuff, anaylizing their structure, biology, atomic structure, all that fun stuff. Stored data he doesn't need to scan for.

He'd likely use the crabby brain dude mid fight. He'd choose funny brain dude if he had prep.

There is no mid-fight, he literally gets tapped once and it's game over.

He'd just absorb energy constructs before it his him. Hal's gonna run out of power eventually.

Uh, no, he wouldn't? How long do you think this fight is gonna last for dude? It's not even gonna last 5 seconds.

Why not tho? Isn't Hal also super overconfident and usually shoot first ask questions later. He'd likely take 3 or 4 shots before coming up with a counter strategy.

What the **** no?

The Omnitrix's high regen counters physical attacks.

Why in the hell are you assuming he's blowing him to bits? That isn't what knocked out means? He's literally NOT ALLOWED to deliver fatal blows.

So... Hal's energy attacks would be useless then?

Against Feedback, sure, then he just does literally anything else and ko's him. Or forces ben to switch via doing literally anything else beecause Feedback can't do shit if Hal doesn't give him energy to suckle on.

As said, would has info analysis work on a character not from his Universe?

Yeah? Why is this even a topic for debate, it isn't a weakness, and Ben doesn't resist info analysis in 99% of his stuff.

As said before, this is the ring holding data of species based of data uploaded into it.

Yeah, it's also a ring that scan completely new stuff on the fly, whether it be organisms, or even just stuff in the vincinity. Hell the scan I used had the ring scan Hal himself in that very moment and the enviroment down to a beyond atomic scale. The other scan I was gonna use, which is on profile, is the ring scanning a never before seen robot on the fly to figure out its weakpoint.

 

[Lort15]

he's touched once?

 

[MintyBoi1]

I’m confused on how Hal’s stats work. His safety protocol makes him lower himself to 5-A to knock out Ben, so wouldn’t his durability be lowered too? On the profile his durability is put as varies. If that’s the case it’s either Hal starts 2-C and Feedback amps above him, or Hal lowers himself to 5-A and then Feedback absorbs his constructs and amps above him.

 

[Chariot190]

I’m confused on how Hal’s stats work. His safety protocol makes him lower himself to 5-A to knock out Ben, so wouldn’t his durability be lowered too? On the profile his durability is put as varies. If that’s the case it’s either Hal starts 2-C and Feedback amps above him, or Hal lowers himself to 5-A and then Feedback absorbs his constructs and amps above him.

Offensive means capped relative to the target to prevent attacks that would otherwise kill them. It can be overcome through sheer will (it isn't meant to be overcome, Hal just has a strong enough will to do so), but I can't fathom why Hal would ever want to do so. And normally Hal caps at 3-C (not like that'd change the match), but idk OC said 2-C earlier so... Running with that cap.

Also, again range my dude. They literally start 4km away, Hal can literally just yeet a pebble at him and ko him without consequence from that range, or flick his wrist and knock his ass out with a shockwave, or literally anything else.

 

[Celestial_Scaler25]

Uh, no, he wouldn't? How long do you think this fight is gonna last for dude? It's not even gonna last 5 seconds.

A lot longer than that, realistically. Hal would open with energy attacks and Feedback would absorb. And neither risk going close as Hal wouldn't risk getting his ring drained.

Why in the hell are you assuming he's blowing him to bits? That isn't what knocked out means? He's literally NOT ALLOWED to deliver fatal blows.

By 'one tap', I assumed that you meant kill.

Against Feedback, sure, then he just does literally anything else and ko's him. Or forces ben to switch via doing literally anything else beecause Feedback can't do shit if Hal doesn't give him energy to suckle on.

So, Ben can't get close due to potentially getting KO'd and Hal can't get close due to getting his ring and life energy absorbed out of him. His constructs won't due shit either as Feedback can ubsorb it. So how is Hal meant to get a KO.

 

[Chariot190]

A lot longer than that, realistically. Hal would open with energy attacks and Feedback would absorb. And neither risk going close as Hal wouldn't risk getting his ring drained.

Lad, Hal can literally snap his fingers from across the planet and take him out.

By 'one tap', I assumed that you meant kill.

Literally not allowed.

So, Ben can't get close due to potentially getting KO'd and Hal can't get close due to getting his ring and life energy absorbed out of him. His constructs won't due shit either as Feedback can ubsorb it. So how is Hal meant to get a KO.

Lad, he's a 2-C with the physicality of Supes, Hal can literally flick a pebble at him if he wanted, or thunderclap, or yeet the very land he's on into orbit, punch the moon at him at rel speeds, etc. Hal has energy attacks, he's also basically Superman.

 

[GeneralSol16]

With what range? All before he's touched once?

Sure, because if Hal goes in a melee, he will be close enough for Ben to absorb him, and if he's not close enough, he needs to use constructs, something that Ben can absorb.

 

[Chariot190]

Sure, because if Hal goes in a melee, he will be close enough for Ben to absorb him, and if he's not close enough, he needs to use constructs, something that Ben can absorb.

Hal doesn't even need to be in the same galaxy as him to flick his wrist once and ko.

You really shouldn't have went with the 2-C key lad.

 

[MintyBoi1]

What’s the actual starting range here? Both of these guys have planetary stuff on their profiles.

 

[AbaddonTheDisappointment]

What’s the actual starting range here? Both of these guys have planetary stuff on their profiles.

4 km per SBA

 

[Chariot190]

What’s the actual starting range here? Both of these guys have planetary stuff on their profiles.

4km.
"Starting distance: The characters start as far away from each other as the highest range of the fighters is, but a maximum of 4 kilometers. For example, if one character has a range of 10 meter and the other has a range of 20 meter they start 20 meter apart. However if the range of one character is 10 meter and the range of the other is 5 kilometer, they start only 4 kilometer apart.
If the character with the higher range is limited to melee combat, having neither ranged attacks nor weapons that expand their reach, then the starting range will be set to their reach plus three steps of the character with the lower step length. This is to ensure that the characters have a minimal ability to make use of positioning.
If extreme advantages are generated via this distance to one side, a balanced alternative should be discussed in the thread."

That's SBA.

 

[MintyBoi1]

4km.
"Starting distance: The characters start as far away from each other as the highest range of the fighters is, but a maximum of 4 kilometers. For example, if one character has a range of 10 meter and the other has a range of 20 meter they start 20 meter apart. However if the range of one character is 10 meter and the range of the other is 5 kilometer, they start only 4 kilometer apart.
If the character with the higher range is limited to melee combat, having neither ranged attacks nor weapons that expand their reach, then the starting range will be set to their reach plus three steps of the character with the lower step length. This is to ensure that the characters have a minimal ability to make use of positioning.
If extreme advantages are generated via this distance to one side, a balanced alternative should be discussed in the thread."

That's SBA.

Oh yeah, I forgot the max range

 

[GeneralSol16]

Hal doesn't even need to be in the same galaxy as him to flick his wrist once and ko.

He'd need to use constructs for that, and they will get absorbed.

You really shouldn't have went with the 2-C key lad.

I said Rebirth Hal, not the 2-C Key.

 

[Chariot190]

He'd need to use constructs for that, and they will get absorbed.

No? Man, do you not understand how physically capable these dudes are? Their physical strikes often generate insanely huge shockwaves and AOE.

I said Rebirth Hal, not the 2-C Key.

"Varies, up to 3-C, 2-C at his peak. Higher with Raw Willpower"
Is literally Rebirth key my dude. We use the strongest iteration of a key unless specificed by default, the very fact you, yourself, mentioned 2-C multiple times in this match, is evidence enough as it is.

Why you're trying to backpedal, is beyond me, but little late for that.

 

[GeneralSol16]

No? Man, do you not understand how physically capable these dudes are? Their physical strikes often generate insanely huge shockwaves and AOE.

Ah, sure. Clark, Diana, J'onn.

Lamtern and Flash? Not really, Hal actually only has range via constructs (upscaled from Stewart), not shockwaves

 

[Chariot190]

Ah, sure. Clark, Diana, J'onn.

Lamtern and Flash? Not really, Hal actually only has range via constructs (upscaled from Stewart), not shockwaves

Unfortunate given he is literally in Supes ballpark physically, has generated shockwaves with his blows, and given this is peak Rebirth, actually eclipses every dude you just mentioned by name.

Flash is also a bad example, because he literally attacks using shockwaves at points, like some DBZ kiai shit.

Either way, update the vote list, I voted Hal.

 

[GeneralSol16]

Either way, update the vote list, I voted Hal.

U won't lie, I lost track of the counts like 3 pages ago.

 

[TsukasayaEmmaDCD]

Voting Hal as Chariot summed up onto why I think Hal would beat Ben

 

[GeneralSol16]

Hal needs to take down Ben for 60 minutes so that can be a wincon.

Aside from that, Ben will just regain conscious and Gaxstomp via Clockwork and Feedback.

 

[Maverick_Zero_X]

Ah, sure. Clark, Diana, J'onn.

Lamtern and Flash? Not really, Hal actually only has range via constructs (upscaled from Stewart), not shockwaves

Per his profile, Hal can generate shockwaves capable of crossing vast distances just like Superman

sent tremors across the entire Emotional Spectrum,[88] which has been called an infinite web of interlinked planes and realms,[89]

 

[GeneralSol16]

Per his profile, Hal can generate shockwaves capable of crossing infinite distances just like

He had to apply 2C energy to do that, Ben'd get destroyed, not KO.
Therefore, the Omnitrix would save him.

 

[Lort15]

4 km per SBA

Would the starting distance be allowed if it is 10 meters on the title?

 

[AbaddonTheDisappointment]

Would the starting distance be allowed if it is 10 meters on the title?

What do you mean on the title?

 

[Lort15]

What do you mean on the title?

vs thread's title or post like this "Starting Distance 10 Meters"

 

[AbaddonTheDisappointment]

vs thread's title or post like this "Starting Distance 10 Meters"

Technically yes. Though changing it would not be the best idea in my opinion

 

[GeneralSol16]

I won't alter anything.

It would make the last 7 pages useless

 

[Arkansalter2]

I'm surprised it's this close.

 

[Tomfer]

Voting Hal too for Milly and Chariot reasons.

.

 

[TsukasayaEmmaDCD]

Voting Hal as Chariot summed up onto why I think Hal would beat Ben

Op missed

 

[GeneralSol16]

So...what now? Both are well above 7 votes, actually, they're in a draw.

Is this an Incon?

 

[ShionAH]

Nah, Hal is getting more votes in a shorter amount of time

I voted Hal too btw