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Space battle | Gwen Anodite vs Saitama [10-6-0] (GRACE ENDED)

OP thought that putting Saitama in Parallel Timeline Key was Blood-lusting him.
REX9097 said:
There is literally no key to Serious/Blood or special abilities put into Power and Abilities for Serious/Blood. Saitama uses Time Travel so he is in Serious/Blood form.
Click to expand...

Celestial_Scaler25 said:
If we go based of in character stuff. Then Gwen would open with Energy attacks and shields, Saitama would take no damage and break through the shields effortlessly, Gwen would see this and likely change her strategy to more complex spells like all the ones mentioned and she even has a habit of teleporting away from more physical threats like Aggregor and Albedo. While Saitama would be like 0_0 {Where did she do?)
Click to expand...
Does this help?
Enhanced Senses (He possesses a supernatural hearing, being able to hear chatter from bystanders a good distance away even while fighting monsters)
Click to expand...

Also, really quickly (This isn't a deeply-thought out statement) If Blood-lusted Saitama is provoked to, he can just go back in time and speed-blitz Gwen with the accumulated speed and AP from his Accelerated Development. Gwen doesn't have Acausality Type 1, so Saitama can just turn back time without consequence.
 
Catbowtie said:
Saitama's Accelerated Development should be able to handle this. How is Gwen reducing Saitama's power? Saitama's shockwaves are a by-product of his strength. It's related to his AP. How is Gwen nullifying and reversing Shockwaves?
Click to expand...
Like what you do with Terraspin as the wind attack is part of its power. It literally made Terraspin hands become weak as his wind attack became slower and his power became weaker. He can nullify Humungousaur powers, which includes shockwaves.
Catbowtie said:

Blood-lusted Saitama is a better version of Parallel Timeline Garou​

This is because Saitama supposedly has Garou's Perfected Martial Arts after copying it from him and can simultaneously surpass Garou himself.


Assuming that the Thread Starter permits usage of Garou's Perfected Martial Arts, this makes it easier for Saitama to beat Gwen to death. Literally anything Garou does with his Martial Arts, Saitama does it but better. Saitama's Accelerated Development would continually make the AP gap into an AP chasm and increase his speed.
Click to expand...
It can reduce his speed and attack like it does with high fan speed and Terraspin.
Catbowtie said:
I saw that an argument Gwen would just put up a barrier, but hear me out: Saitama punches it really hard. I'm serious. Forcefields have durability (NO WAY!), and the forcefield shown in the Mana Ben 10 page doesn't have anything special going for it that wouldn't let Saitama just punch through it.
Click to expand...
😭 Mana field≠mana shield. There is a difference between the Mana shield and Mana Field as the Mana Field is not broken looked at the show. What will prevent Gwen from seal Saitama in Mana field or even break saitama down into smaller parts.
 
Catbowtie said:
Saitama's Accelerated Development should be able to handle this. How is Gwen reducing Saitama's power? Saitama's shockwaves are a by-product of his strength. It's related to his AP. How is Gwen nullifying and reversing Shockwaves?
Click to expand...
Like what you do with Terraspin as the wind attack is part of its power. It literally made Terraspin hands become weak as his wind attack became slower and his power became weaker. He can nullify Humungousaur powers, which includes shockwaves.
Catbowtie said:

Blood-lusted Saitama is a better version of Parallel Timeline Garou​

This is because Saitama supposedly has Garou's Perfected Martial Arts after copying it from him and can simultaneously surpass Garou himself.


Assuming that the Thread Starter permits usage of Garou's Perfected Martial Arts, this makes it easier for Saitama to beat Gwen to death. Literally anything Garou does with his Martial Arts, Saitama does it but better. Saitama's Accelerated Development would continually make the AP gap into an AP chasm and increase his speed.
Click to expand...
It can reduce his speed and attack like it does with high fan speed and Terraspin.
Catbowtie said:
Sure, Saitama's speed is being reduced, but by what margin? Saitama is making exponential jumps in power with literally every passing second, reduced speed doesn't mean a whole lot when that speed is multiplying itself constantly. Can I see what the "reduced speed" ability for Gwen looks like?

When Saitama is close enough to break a forcefield, I thought that he would already be in close-quarters-combat to punch Gwen.

If Gwen tries to BFR him, Saitama can unironically come back through Time Travel.

It'll "reverse" the effect of Gwen BFR'ing him. I can't say the same for Time Stop since Saitama doesn't have resistance to that and prevents him from doing anything. Can you show me what Time Stop looks like?

Edit: I just went and looked for myself because I realized I was being lazy.


Saitama's honest reaction:
pwnbOOs_d.webp

(Joking, but that spell doesn't look like it's combat-applicable)

This is cut to ****. What episode is this? I feel like it's taken out of context. Regardless, Key factor is that Gwen has to speak, and react. This means that she has to choose between casting a spell for a Forcefield or using Time Manipulation. If Gwen realizes that she needs to use Time Manipulation to beat Saitama, it will be far too late since I don't think she can cast spells when she's getting punched, or Saitama ripping her head off.
(Saitama)

(Gwen)
Click to expand...
It can reduced Saitama's speed until Saitama stops moving.

Can it literally break mana field (not mana shield)?

It can reverse time to prevent it from traveling through time or traveling through a time like it.

Gwen only need to seal him in mana field and reverse and stop time on Saitama.

Gwen won't need her hands, she can using words and power nullification.
 
CBslayeR said:
Gwen learned its full potential isn't a key or a thing she ever does in the series, she never fully masters magic or her anodite powers in OV, it's not a real key on the profile and is not something she has access to or anything
Click to expand...
If Gwen are not literally in full potential, she will lose her humanity, so I put full potential so that she can fully use her power without restrictions.
CBslayeR said:
???
Click to expand...
No way, you really don't know the difference between Mana Shield and Mana Field
 
Last edited:
REX9097 said:
If Gwen are not literally in full potential, she will lose her humanity, so I put full potential so that she can fully use her power without restrictions.

No way, You really don't know the difference between Mana Shield and Mana Field
Click to expand...
that's basically a fan version of the character then, like there's no point in the series where Gwen trains enough to master the powers even in future timelines; this makes the thread non viable to add to profiles; like it's borderline an OC at that point


can't help but notice that you left out that fact for the Goku thread when you put it on profiles, so you should probably get those removed
 
CBslayeR said:
that's basically a fan version of the character then, like there's no point in the series where Gwen trains enough to master the powers even in future timelines; this makes the thread non viable to add to profiles; like it's borderline an OC at that point


can't help but notice that you left out that fact for the Goku thread when you put it on profiles, so you should probably get those removed
Click to expand...
Not literally as Verdona says that Gwen will have her full potential at 60-70 years old and if Anodites don't have their full potential then that means they will lose their power as Gwen beat Goku thanks to hax not full potential
 
REX9097 said:
Not literally as Verdona says that Gwen will have her full potential at 60-70 years old and if Anodites don't have their full potential then that means they will lose their power as Gwen beat Goku thanks to hax not full potential
Click to expand...
She still hasn't mastered it, so you can't use it for threads, there's no discussion there.

If you want the thread to be added you have to nuke the votes since a lot of the threads arguments are based on the crux of her having mastered her full potential and having mastered all of the hax the anodite form gives (and generously assuming this also gives her the perfect amount of combat experience to do it immediately on a guy who looks like a superhero to her and is likely not even attacking her since you didn't bloodlust Saitama)

Its also a FRA train


We can theoretically use a Goku that trained enough to surpass Beerus by this logic and has perfect UI since it's possible for him by this logic
 
CBslayeR said:
If you want the thread to be added you have to nuke the votes since a lot of the threads arguments are based on the crux of her having mastered her full potential and having mastered all of the hax the anodite form gives (and generously assuming this also gives her the perfect amount of combat experience to do it immediately on a guy who looks like a superhero to her and is likely not even attacking her since you didn't bloodlust Saitama)
Click to expand...
Again, just because Gwen hasn't reached her full potential doesn't mean she doesn't have full Anodite powers. Full potential means that Gwen is able to use her powers without losing her humanity. As Verdona said, Gwen has Anodite powers.
CBslayeR said:
We can theoretically use a Goku that trained enough to surpass Beerus by this logic and has perfect UI since it's possible for him by this logic
Click to expand...
Goku didn't surpass Beerus in Z.
 
REX9097 said:
Like what you do with Terraspin as the wind attack is part of its power. It literally made Terraspin hands become weak as his wind attack became slower and his power became weaker. He can nullify Humungousaur powers, which includes shockwaves.
Click to expand...
Okay, I just wanted to make sure it was this:
Click to expand...
This ability is laughably weak. It worked for all of 5 seconds, maybe 7. Also, Gwen doesn't get the ability to reverse shockwaves because she slowed down Terraspin's whirlwind, which can nullify shockwaves. Abilities just doesn't stack like that. By that logic, Saitama should get literally every single power in his verse because he's able to weaken and defeat everyone there.

REX9097 said:
It can reduce his speed and attack like it does with high fan speed and Terraspin.
Click to expand...
The statistics reduction is incredibly short. I can see Gwen using Statistics Reduction, then Saitama's AD just boosting him through it and then once the spell ends, gets the speed on top of the AD speed.

REX9097 said:
It can reduced Saitama's speed until Saitama stops moving.
Click to expand...
Saitama's AD genuinely just surpasses it. Do you know how crazy Saitama's AD is?
XvFFQBO_d.webp

Those are dots. Saitama will literally keep getting faster and stronger with each passing second. If Gwen does try to "keep reducing his speed until he stops moving" then Gwen is not doing any of her other spells, which allows Saitama to literally just AD through it. Let's go with your premise and say that Gwen is getting to the point where Saitama is literally moving so slow that he realizes he can't get to Gwen. Saitama just time travels and then blitzes Gwen because his AD would've made him jump to crazy levels of speed.

REX9097 said:
Can it literally break mana field (not mana shield)?
Click to expand...
What?
Click to expand...
Where did you get that from? What do you mean to say?

REX9097 said:
It can reverse time to prevent it from traveling through time or traveling through a time like it.
Click to expand...
Sure, she can, but I raise this question: Why would Gwen keep using reverse time if she sees Saitama continuing to come back from getting BFR'd? She isn't blood-lusted. I'm pretty sure she would realize "This guy isn't going to stay gone" at one point or another. Regardless, while Gwen is reversing time, Saitama's Accelerated Development is sky-rocketing his speed. If Gwen keeps, y'know, speaking to cast the spell and sends Saitama back, then Saitama would just get to blitz levels of speed and blitz Gwen before she's able to even talk or react to him.

REX9097 said:
Gwen only need to seal him in mana field and reverse and stop time on Saitama.
Click to expand...
What is mana field? Is that Legerdomain?

I'm pretty sure that reverse and time stop needs Gwen to at least be looking at Saitama to use either of those abilities.

REX9097 said:
Gwen won't need her hands, she can using words and power nullification.
Click to expand...
Saitama rips off her jaw, then, and Power Nullification has to actually be aimed, and I don't see that working on Saitama when Gwen says funny words and sees her pointing her hands at him. If it does hit, then it only works for a limited time, and that doesn't negate Saitama's physical abilities. He is still fast and strong, it's just that AD isn't working.

Edit: Response to other statements because I forgor 💀

😭 Mana field≠mana shield. There is a difference between the Mana shield and Mana Field as the Mana Field is not broken looked at the show. What will prevent Gwen from seal Saitama in Mana field or even break saitama down into smaller parts.
Click to expand...
Saitama's response to that is to go back in time. Just because Mana Field isn't broken in the show doesn't mean it can't be broken. The durability will only go up to what is shown, which in this case is none, so I have reason to believe it's nothing more than a slightly stronger Mana Shield that can be punched through by Saitama.

REX9097 said:
No, Gwen's field never shown to be breakable.
Click to expand...
Even if this is true, the field will only upscale from whoever tried to break it, and it doesn't mean that someone with higher AP can't punch through it.
 
Last edited:
Idc about who wins tbh but I’ll just advise Ben 10 supporters to add a note to Gwen’s profile that “full potential Gwen” can be used in matchups via CRT to avoid confusion next time
 
Catbowtie said:
Okay, I just wanted to make sure it was this:

This ability is laughably weak. It worked for all of 5 seconds, maybe 7. Also, Gwen doesn't get the ability to reverse shockwaves because she slowed down Terraspin's whirlwind, which can nullify shockwaves. Abilities just doesn't stack like that. By that logic, Saitama should get literally every single power in his verse because he's able to weaken and defeat everyone there.
Click to expand...
It's really funny that you haven't watched Ben 10. You can see that the effect of this ability is not for 5 or 7 seconds, bc Ben turned into NRG. We see this ability again in Omniverse and this time it's an effect that clearly makes the opponent slower and weaker until he loses his movement. I didn't say this literally, I'm saying that Gwen can reduce power, the simplest example is reducing Terraspin's power. What does Power Mimicry have to do with Power Nullification lol. Since she nullified Humungousaur's abilities, soshe was able to nullify Humungousaur's shockwaves ability.
Catbowtie said:
Let's go with your premise and say that Gwen is getting to the point where Saitama is literally moving so slow that he realizes he can't get to Gwen. Saitama just time travels and then blitzes Gwen because his AD would've made him jump to crazy levels of speed.
Click to expand...
How will he go so fast when she is only able to make him unable to move like what is done here. Can reverse time to stop him.
Catbowtie said:
What?

Where did you get that from? What do you mean to say?
Click to expand...
Mana shield is different from mana field. Mana field is a shield that surrounds the user or people to protect them from anything, even magic, unlike mana shield. Mana field is higher than mana shield.
Catbowtie said:
Sure, she can, but I raise this question: Why would Gwen keep using reverse time if she sees Saitama continuing to come back from getting BFR'd? She isn't blood-lusted. I'm pretty sure she would realize "This guy isn't going to stay gone" at one point or another. Regardless, while Gwen is reversing time, Saitama's Accelerated Development is sky-rocketing his speed. If Gwen keeps, y'know, speaking to cast the spell and sends Saitama back, then Saitama would just get to blitz levels of speed and blitz Gwen before she's able to even talk or react to him.
Click to expand...
It can literally can seal him in mana field which will nullify BFR. She's smart enough to think she's capable of using Mana Field at the same moment, don't use "possible" "I'm pretty sure she would realize "This guy isn't going to stay gone" at one point or another", She's smart enough to use Mana Field to seal him in mana field and nullify BFR. He can slow down his speed until he is unable to move.
Catbowtie said:
What is mana field? Is that Legerdomain?



I'm pretty sure that reverse and time stop needs Gwen to at least be looking at Saitama to use either of those abilities.
Click to expand...
No. Mana Field has higher capabilities than the Mana Shield and explained what is above. Legerdomain is a place that resurrects a mana that enhances Gwen's strength, powers, durability, etc.
No, I've stopped Eon's Army in time without seeing them all. He can stop and reverse time without the need to see everything that exists.

Catbowtie said:
Saitama rips off her jaw, then, and Power Nullification has to actually be aimed, and I don't see that working on Saitama when Gwen says funny words and sees her pointing her hands at him. If it does hit, then it only works for a limited time, and that doesn't negate Saitama's physical abilities. He is still fast and strong, it's just that AD isn't working.

Edit: Response to other statements because I forgor 💀
Click to expand...
Is it mentioned that the power nullification has a specific period? He can reduce his Strength and Speed to lose it.

Catbowtie said:
Saitama's response to that is to go back in time. Just because Mana Field isn't broken in the show doesn't mean it can't be broken. The durability will only go up to what is shown, which in this case is none, so I have reason to believe it's nothing more than a slightly stronger Mana Shield that can be punched through by Saitama.
Click to expand...
Gwen stop and reverse time. Mana field does not increase durability, it is a field to seal and place things inside so they cannot escape and can be used to protect the user from other abilities. Atomix himself was unable to break it which has higher AP.
 
REX9097 said:
You can see that the effect of this ability is not for 5 or 7 seconds, bc Ben turned into NRG. We see this ability again in Omniverse and this time it's an effect that clearly makes the opponent slower and weaker until he loses his movement
Click to expand...
This just looks like Gwen is using Telekinesis to stop the fan instead of out-right using statistic reduction, and she didn't even say the words for the spell, unless in this case she doesn't need to? If that were the case, why doesn't she just use this supposedly instantly-weakening and movement-stopping ability all the time when faced with enemies? It doesn't seem like it's meant to be interpretated that way.
REX9097 said:
I didn't say this literally, I'm saying that Gwen can reduce power, the simplest example is reducing Terraspin's power. What does Power Mimicry have to do with Power Nullification lol. Since she nullified Humungousaur's abilities, soshe was able to nullify Humungousaur's shockwaves ability.
Click to expand...
Can I see this?
REX9097 said:
How will he go so fast when she is only able to make him unable to move like what is done here. Can reverse time to stop him.
Click to expand...
AD will be exponentially increasing his speed. I really don't think Statistic Reduction goes far as to make Saitama unable to move. Gwen can't...reverse Saitama time traveling. Once Saitama does it, that's it. There's no sequence of events like "Saitama uses Time Travel. Gwen reacts to this and uses reverse time" It's "Saitama uses Time Travel. Fight starts over" That's it.

REX9097 said:
Mana shield is different from mana field. Mana field is a shield that surrounds the user or people to protect them from anything, even magic, unlike mana shield. Mana field is higher than mana shield.
Click to expand...
So...it gets punched through? It just gets punched through.

REX9097 said:
It can literally can seal him in mana field which will nullify BFR. She's smart enough to think she's capable of using Mana Field at the same moment, don't use "possible" "I'm pretty sure she would realize "This guy isn't going to stay gone" at one point or another", She's smart enough to use Mana Field to seal him in mana field and nullify BFR. He can slow down his speed until he is unable to move.
Click to expand...
I say that because I think it's reasonable to assume that Gwen would react to the things that Saitama is doing. Gwen's Sealing wouldn't work because the sealing is a physical restraint...and I don't understand what you mean by "It can literally can seal him in a mana field which will nullify BFR." Do you mean that it will nullify Saitama returning from her BFR? That's doesn't work because Saitama will react to and dodge the Sealing, or will punch through Mana Field. Like I said before, I feel like Statistics Reduction reducing speed to being unable to move is a stretch for reasons I said before. Even so, reducing speed to being unable to move is merely effecting someone's speed. It doesn't stop them from, y'know, moving again and I don't think the spell is permanent either.

REX9097 said:
No. Mana Field has higher capabilities than the Mana Shield and explained what is above. Legerdomain is a place that resurrects a mana that enhances Gwen's strength, powers, durability, etc.
No, I've stopped Eon's Army in time without seeing them all. He can stop and reverse time without the need to see everything that exists.
Click to expand...
That's an Area-of-Effect Time Stop. An area of effect. It doesn't show the potency that you are describing, and nothing indicates it can follow Saitama to hit him and reverse his time.

REX9097 said:
Is it mentioned that the power nullification has a specific period? He can reduce his Strength and Speed to lose it.
Click to expand...
No, I'm just trying to apply good judgement. If Gwen had an ability that negated someone's powers indefinitely, then what's stopping her from using it against literally every other enemy? What is that guy's name? (The one that Gwen used her ability on) I can find him and see if he still has his abilities and get my answer. Anyways, Gwen has to actually hit the power nullification, and I think she's very unlikely to do it considering that Saitama just out-skills her.

With your whole "reduce Strength and Speed to lose it thing" feels like it's high-balling what Statistics Reduction actually does.
Click to expand...
If you wanted to say it does that, make a CRT. Nothing in the Mana page says that it is reducing speed to a stop. "Significantly weakened" is a little vague, because by what margin is "significantly weakened"? And it doesn't really allow for understanding in different scenarios. This whole damn page needs a revision.

REX9097 said:
Gwen stop and reverse time. Mana field does not increase durability, it is a field to seal and place things inside so they cannot escape and can be used to protect the user from other abilities. Atomix himself was unable to break it which has higher AP.
Click to expand...
Tier: At least 4-B, possibly 4-A

Name: Atomix
Click to expand...
Attack Potency: At least Solar System level, possibly Multi-Solar System level (Held his own against Malgax before eventually being defeated. Following Ben using Atomix, Malgax stated that none of Ben's other aliens that he has faced would be able to stop him, which includes Way Big and Eatle with energy absorption)
Click to expand...
Saitama punches through Mana Field once his AD gets higher. Gwen can't stop and reverse time in reaction to Saitama going back in time. Time is literally moving backwards, there is no front-flow of time for Gwen to use her spells to stop Saitama. It just happens; nothing Gwen can do about it.


It feels like you're just plugging a controller into Gwen and making her do the exact movements she needs to win against Saitama. Like, seriously? She immediately uses Statistics Reduction into Time Stop? But oh wait she uses Sealing? But also she uses BFR and uses time reverse to stop Saitama from leaving? Which one is it? Why does she specifically do these things over anything else? Celestial Scaler said that Gwen starts with Energy Attacks then moves on to more complex spells, but what complex spell is she inclined to use? How will she react to Saitama continuing to get faster and stronger than her? It certainly wouldn't be to throw an energy blast that Saitama could easily dodge (Sealing via Mana Field)

There is literally like 10 other applications of Mana Gwen can be using but decides to use a total of THREE abilities in quick succession that allows her to win? Show me a fight where she does all this In-Character and my problem will be resolved, because otherwise this all seems so out of character. I'm not saying that she wouldn't, I'm saying that it doesn't feel like Gwen would do any of these abilities without any identifiable cause or justification, especially when she literally has no idea what this Saitama can do. For all she knows, Saitama could be mana-less creature that can't be affected by her spells.



My main point is that for every second that passes, Saitama is getting exponentially stronger. This puts Gwen on a timer to see if she can figure out and achieve her Win Condition before Saitama speed-blitzes and one shots her from his AD. For the sake of argument (and because I like making rhetorical proposals), let's disregard every single advantage that a Blood-lusted Saitama has (which to remind: Is ungodly higher skill than Gwen and literally doing everything Garou does but better in every single, which comes with it's own set of win conditions) The mere fact that Saitama's Greater Accelerated Development works on such a crazy level already puts Gwen in an unfavorable situation since she would pretty much have to quickly (When I say "quickly" I mean in like literally the first few second of the battle) realize that putting up Mana Shields wouldn't work, then conveniently follow up with Time Stop (Which is implied to have a limit). That's the only way I believe she can win, because any other scenario would just have Saitama beat her to death with AD or he just goes back in time then proceeds to beat her to death with AD.

Let's take this scenario for example:
Celestial_Scaler25 said:
If we go based of in character stuff. Then Gwen would open with Energy attacks and shields, Saitama would take no damage and break through the shields effortlessly, Gwen would see this and likely change her strategy to more complex spells like all the ones mentioned and she even has a habit of teleporting away from more physical threats like Aggregor and Albedo. While Saitama would be like 0_0 {Where did she do?)
Click to expand...
This entire scenario results in wasted time because, I hate to beat y'all over the head with hit, Saitama AD just makes him faster and stronger. The moment Gwen teleports to another location for a second time is the same moment that she finds herself zooming at Mach F*ck through space, with both her arms and jaw missing, and an arm sized hole in her stomach. The same moment her brain processes the information that she is wounded is the same exact moment that everything goes dark because Gwen ******* dies because Saitama blitzes and one shots her.
 
Ben_10_Stick_Nodes said:
Can't Gwen just bfr saitama to somewhere he can never comeback?
Click to expand...
Saitama time travels back to the start of the fight.
Time Travel, Body Control, Matter Manipulation (Macro-Quantum), and Antimatter Manipulation (Travelled back in time by manipulating his own sub-atomic particles and anti-particles,[Note 1] reversing causality and ending his fight with Garou before it even began[1])
Click to expand...
Depending on how quickly Gwen decides to use BFR, Saitama can pretty much just immediately out-pace and beat Gwen to death or Gwen repeats the same steps that Saitama already knows that she would do. This is why I'm trying to figure out what Gwen starts with, because in the case that Saitama uses his Time Travel and goes back in time, Gwen will always start with that ability when the fight starts over. I'm sure Extraordinary Genius Saitama (Saitama should have this Intelligence when he's Serious, or at least Genius), will pretty much just know where to attack Gwen to prevent her from using spells, namely ripping off her jaw or tearing her arms off.

OMNIVERSAL-KING said:
She should be able to open a portal to null void right ? Can she trap saitama there (I am not sure of this myself)
Click to expand...
Saitama...dodges it? Gwen is nowhere near as proficient as Portal Creation as Garou, so I don't see Saitama falling for this.


Garou is the baseline when it comes whether or not Gwen can achieve something that requires skill, if she can't hang with Garou in terms of skill, then she definitely can't hang with Saitama. If Gwen tries to use Power Nullification, Saitama dodges it because he's just more skilled, faster, and smarter than her.
 
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