Time Havoc vs. EMIYA Assassin

[Nico-v11]

Activating something by thought is definitely faster than an attack that's only 4x faster even by "surprise" against someone that has never at any point been seen to not be on edge and ready for an attack at any time.

 

[Schnee_One]

Not if you don't even comprehend the attack coming in the first place

 

[Nico-v11]

What's there to comprehend? Someone shows up behind you and attacks. With the amount of versatile fighters in RHG it'll be pretty clear once EMIYA shows up.

 

[Schnee_One]

Because

1. He can't see him

2. He'll be shot point blank by the time he comprehends that he's there.

3. Kiritsugu will still react to him as they're both speed amped

 

[Nico-v11]

1. When EMIYA shows up yes.

2. Thought based time slow or portal would be the immediate reaction and you are overestimating how long it takes to know someone is there.

3. I'm assuming that Kiritsugu is EMIYA? Time Havoc slows EMIYA to a crawl, TM's time slow is MUCH a more potent than EMIYA's speed amp.

 

[Schnee_One]

2. Slow would not slow Kiritsugu's already done attack down, Kiritsugu is amped.

3. Yes. Where is the evidence for that?

 

[Paul_Frank]

I don't think you're understanding that by the time emiya can be detected havoc has been barrel stuffed and shot

 

[LSirLancelotDuLacl]

Emiya still has a whole, big urban areas at night to potentially traverse if he doesn't want to attack from up front and in an open area, which he wouldn't want if he thinks he can get better conditions.

 

[Dargoo_Faust]

bump

 

[Nico-v11]

@Schnee

2. It would since even if you're 4x faster you're still not faster than someone's thoughts

3. I explained above that Time Havoc slowed TG.108 a very slow pace (practically stopped) while speed amped to the point he was blitzing Time Havoc.

 

[Schnee_One]

2. You are if that thought isn't made to begin with

3. So? That's not even a set number.

And he certainly wasn't "blitzing" havoc, tgevdudevwas reacting to his attacks, albeit with more difficulty

 

[Nico-v11]

2. Time Havoc can react to something 4x faster so yes

3. MH+ < TG.108 that's the number. Also how was he not blitzing Time Havoc? The speed amp at close distance left Havoc without anything's to do whatsoever. It was only at a long distance was Havoc able to do anything.

 

[Schnee_One]

2. React? Sure, react when he doesn't even see it coming? No.

3. Because Havoc was still reacting to his attacks.

Also, if TG.108 was supposedly blitzing him like you say, why didn't he kill him right then and there?

 

[TacticalNuke002]

Voting Kiritsugu for broken Nasuverse presence concealment and dura negation.

 

[Monarch_Laciel]

Chronos Rose is a hell of a lot faster than just square accel.

Also Assassin FRA

 

[Schnee_One]

Grace period

 

[Nico-v11]

2. As soon as he appears. I still don't agree that Havoc wouldn't have the mentality of being in a fight since this is a fight for both of them. If Havoc doesn't have the mentality of being in a fight then EMIYA shouldn't either which means no fight.

3. TG.108 was trying but he only has fists.

 

[LSirLancelotDuLacl]

Nico, you are misunderstanding immensely. Having the mentality of being in a fight doesn't matter... when you see literally no one. You even bring up him seeing Kiritsugu appear when Kiritsugu has no reason to attack from his range of vision and can get much closer than you likely think he can. How likely is he reacting to someone speed amped till near blitz attacking him from pretty darn close and from behind?

 

[Schnee_One]

3. So imagine that, but a Durability negating origin bullet

 

[Paul_Frank]

@Nico

Kerry is literally invisible until he attacks cr is faster than a 4x speed boost and due to these two things he can get up behind havoc point blank like he does in his np and fire an origin round into his back the mentality of being in a fight doesn't matter if you don't know where your opponent is hence every king hassan match

 

[Nico-v11]

No idea who King Hassan is so mentioning him again isn't helping.

@LSir well if attacking from such far away then Havoc will easily hear the shot and do something about it.

@Paul Frank it does matter when you have a character that at the mere instance of an attack will do something in response. Again being 4x faster isn't blitzing.

Can anyone provide a scan of EMIYA killing from his precense concealment? Maybe I'm imagining a different scenario.

 

[Schnee_One]

His profile is here and so are his matches

He won't attack from afar though, he doesn't have the range to do that

Being 4x at close range is absolutely blitzing.

 

[LSirLancelotDuLacl]

I am not exactly sure how you read my comment at all, what I tried to say is that Emiya can get extremely close to Havoc before starting his attack and losing Presence Concealment. A 4x boost at minimum, close range and the fact that he has literally no reason to attack from somewhere he can see.

And what do you mean a scan? What part about "absolute pragmatist" do you not understand? If he can abuse it, he will abuse it without question.

 

[Monarch_Laciel]

Again, Chronos Rose is way faster than just the 4x boost of Square Accel. Nothing says he only boosts himself that fast, and his feats of utterly blitzing anyone he uses it against say it's a lot more than just 4 tines

 

[Nico-v11]

If it's truly blitzing then isn't this a stomp? It's almost as if there's no reason to equalized speed at this point.

 

[Schnee_One]

We literally debated the entire thread on who wins but now when the match is concluded you call stomp

 

[Nico-v11]

Only because Monarch is saying the speed amp is "a lot more than just 4x" while earlier I kept saying that 4x wasn't a blitz meaning everything said above is wrong.

 

[Nico-v11]

Kep was also arguing it would be a stomp until it was mentioned that the amp was only 4x but now that the speed is being put into question again we need to know whether it's a speed stomp or not.

 

[Schnee_One]

It means x4 his speed. A thing to note about his speed amps, he only goes as high as x4 because his human body couldn't take anymore. As a Servant with a far more durable body that allows him to spam this ability and even blitz people with the same speed as him, x4 really isn't gonna be his limit though I can't exactly give you a hard cap on that. Basically he goes at least x4 if he uses his ability.

^Higher then 4x was mentioned multiple times in this thread regardless. Monarch only cleared it up.

Also, if you didn't notice, I said myself this didn't seem fair, but continued because you kept saying he would react to it.

 

[Nico-v11]

It seemed to be argued with different ideas on the matter but yeah if at pure minimum 4x faster then I don't see how it's fair when he's going to be exceeding that obviously.

My bad for not catching that though.

 

[Dargoo_Faust]

Should I even add this or no

 

[Kisaragi_Megumi]

NOPE

Serious tho, this can be added.

 

[Nico-v11]

Why? It's actually likely to a real blitz and Havoc has no chance of winning. Unless you want to unequalize speed.

 

[Dargoo_Faust]

Why? It's actually likely to a real blitz and Havoc has no chance of winning. Unless you want to unequalize speed.

I think victory through blizting with time-based abilities rather than outright speed amps is allowed, otherwise we should go remove every battle from the pages of Time Stop users.

IDK if I should add this, though.

 

[LSirLancelotDuLacl]

It's something rather minor, but perhaps bringing it up in a side thread would be good to ask what other staff members think.

A similar battle like this could repeat, so then you have a straight answer if people are unsure.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

Isnt Fate being downgraded soon?

 

[AnonymousBlank]

Its currently undergoing revisions for AP justifications.

 

[Dargoo_Faust]

It's something rather minor, but perhaps bringing it up in a side thread would be good to ask what other staff members think.
A similar battle like this could repeat, so then you have a straight answer if people are unsure.

Alright, the

 

[Schnee_One]

Considering Fate is getting downgraded to baseline and Assasin is D rank, the AP difference absolutely makes this outdated

 

[Paul_Frank]

A shot from an origin round should still kill time havoc even if emiya has an ap disadvantage