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I'm not so sorry for making this, but i can't hold myself as this match-up are too interesting to be scrapped, yes i know that Erza lost to multiple servants already (while the other two like her vs Emiya and Nero Bride got removed because the version that used against them was upgraded), but well...screw it and lets see what this going to be (also Erza vs Saber Artoria match is too plain and mainstream, same can be said to her vs Emiya, Erza vs Nero Bride are kinda stupid from mine since its more just a fanservice match)

Don't worry, this is not an another fanservice and waifu supremacy fight, this is the true battle between life and death

Summary would be added later


  • Base Raikou and X793 Erza are used
  • No restriction for both side (mean that Erza can use her strongest armors and Enhancement while Raikou can use her Noble Phantasm)
  • Speed are equalized
  • Both are in-characters
  • Place: Laputa/Castle in the Sky (Scheherazade creation)
  • images
  • Starting Range: 10 meters
  • Win via anything!!
  • "Fairy Queen": 0
  • Monster Extermimator: 0
  • Inconclusive: 0


Berserker.%28Minamoto.no.Yorimitsu%29.600.3441679.jpg

VS
Erza.Scarlet.600.3510296.jpg
 
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First, what's the AP of base Erza? The notes in the verse page say that X793 Enchantments Erza it's 103.2 Gigatons.

Raikou scale above the 26.6 GT in base since she have Strength A, to that is added the buff of Mana Burst A, in this case Erza I'm not sure if the passive buff of Mystery Killer would activate, maybe she would fall under the Earth attribute category which would activate it, in that case Raikou would be in the 6-C+ territory. So while Erza would have the AP advatange in her Enchantments state the difference wouldn't be so great.
 
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First, what's the AP of base Erza? The notes in the verse page say that X793 Enchantments Erza it's 103.2 Gigatons.

Raikou scale above the 26.6 GT in base since she have Strength A, to that is added the buff of Mana Burst A, in this case Erza I'm not sure if the passive buff of Mystery Killer would activate, maybe she would fall under the Earth attribute category which would activate it, in that case Raikou would be in the 6-C+ territory. So while Erza would have the AP advatange in her Enchantments state the difference wouldn't be so great.
X793 Base Erza was comparable to X793/100YQ Base Natsu, who fought Wraith possessed Makarov, with the value: 17.2 Gigatons

I contacted some of FT supporters and see if i'm right or not lel
 
I think I'll call stomp

I see her getting annahilated by Passive Soul and Conceptual hax cause in terms of skill Raikou can fight people with Precog that let's them view and Infinite number of possibilities and blocked Musashi's Heavenly Eye so i think she's probably going to land a few good hits with Speed being Equalised (although after I'm done she will even without it heheheheh) so I don't know man Erza doesn't have any resistances to those so if she ends up eating one of Raikous attacks it's a one shot

First, what's the AP of base Erza? The notes in the verse page say that X793 Enchantments Erza it's 103.2 Gigatons.

Raikou scale above the 26.6 GT in base since she have Strength A, to that is added the buff of Mana Burst A, in this case Erza I'm not sure if the passive buff of Mystery Killer would activate, maybe she would fall under the Earth attribute category which would activate it, in that case Raikou would be in the 6-C+ territory. So while Erza would have the AP advatange in her Enchantments state the difference wouldn't be so great.
Is Raikou's NP restricted here?? because I do believe she Scales to 2.9 Teratones with it and given the reasoning for Erza's Low 6-B rating I'd wager she Scales to the 1.72 Teraton Low 6-B's although I may be wrong about that


In conclusion 4D Servant hax goes Brrr as usual lol
 
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Where does Raikou have Conceptual anything in her profile?

And I don't recall Servant's having 4-D hax. They have 4-D abilities and such but Raikou doesn't have any notable hax that's actually reflected on her profile, although I'd assume this is a result of Fate generally having well, shit tier profiles when it comes to references and formating.


Edit: Eyup, it's just an issue regarding the pages basically being incoherent shit with all due respect. Like seriously that Servant Physiology page is awful. It doesn't actually bother on going over what Servant's have what abilities and resistances (Not all Servant's have Conceptual Weapons so that's misleading as fuck.)
 
Where does Raikou have Conceptual anything in her profile?

And I don't recall Servant's having 4-D hax. They have 4-D abilities and such but Raikou doesn't have any notable hax that's actually reflected on her profile, although I'd assume this is a result of Fate generally having well, shit tier profiles when it comes to references and formating.
Servant Physiology

Sound like beef to me if you don't like it make a CRT I won't stop ya
 
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Servant Physiology
Literally nothing in the Servant Physiology page insinuates, implies or states that they have passive soul Manipulation nor passive Conceptual Manipulation.


The only passive abilities that they have are Aura and the Supernatural Luck. Conceptual Manipulation and Soul Hax isn't something that just happens, they need to attack for that to happen.


Also Servant's don't Manipulate Concepts either, they have "conceptual" soul Manipulation. Which is just an advanced form of Soul Manipulation, it's not outright Concept Manipulation such as creating or altering abstract concepts like Life and Death.
 
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Also you guys know there's more than like 5 Servant's that exist right? Not really sure why every Vs Thread involves Fate is always about the same 5 Servants.

If people keep neglecting Servant's like my boy Billy the Kid Imma start capping bitches.

Aside from wanting more free W's for the big ttiddy waifu's
 
Literally nothing in the Servant Physiology page insinuates, implies or states that they have passive soul Manipulation nor passive Conceptual Manipulation..
Passive Soul and Conceptual hax on their attacks right as in their attacks have those properties??? well it's fine if it's not that was a misunderstanding on my part
The only passive abilities that they have are Aura and the Supernatural Luck. Conceptual Manipulation and Soul Hax isn't something that just happens, they need to attack for that to happen.
Well if you read the rest of the message I explained that Raikou has the skill to land hits because shes fought against people with Precog as broken as Musashis and I did specifically say she needs to land a hit not she just Yeets her
Also Servant's don't Manipulate Concepts either, they have "conceptual" soul Manipulation. Which is just an advanced form of Soul Manipulation, it's not outright Concept Manipulation such as creating or altering abstract concepts like Life and Death.
Don't believe I said anything even remotely relating to the altering or creation of abstract concepts though......
 
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Passive Soul and Conceptual hax on their attacks right as in their attacks have those properties??? well it's fine if it's not that was a misunderstanding on my part
No a passive ability would be them just standing there and applying said hax with no real effort done. Also I don't think that's something that Servant's do 24/7, I'm pretty sure Servant's need to actively attacking the soul instead of it being something applicable with each and every strike.

Your gucci man, don't sweat it.
Well if you read the rest of the message I explained that Raikou has the skill to land hits because shes fought against people with Precog as broken as Musashis and I did specifically say she needs to land a hit not she just Yeets her
Fighting Musashi here is kinda irrelevant given that Erza isn't exactly the most skilled Swordsmen around. She's skilled for sure, but in comparison to Fate Erza has pretty low tier skill feats.

Raikou doesn't really scale to Musashi's skill either, iirc that was a pretty easy fight for Musashi to win. But like I said, Raikou still has better feats than Erza even without scaling Raikou's skill to Musashi.




Personally speaking I think this is a blatant and evident stomp. Servant's now have 4-D Resistance to Magic, and 99% of Erza's arsenal is based around 3-D Magic. Unfortunately Velox tends to overlook basic things like this for the sake for making a match-up. (Same principles apply to the Meliodas and Raiden match.)



For future reference I wouldn't use characters who primarily use Magic against Servant's who now have 4-D Resistance to Magic. It's pretty much one sided since all that leaves most Magic based characters with shit like kicking and punching.
 
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I'm with Gin here, in fact peoples are agreed that the concept and soul hax aren't passive as it need some of one blow (which implied to be an finishing move or aftermath strike from what i believe)

Also Raikou never use hax nor she even had an haxes before so yeah
Also you guys know there's more than like 5 Servant's that exist right? Not really sure why every Vs Thread involves Fate is always about the same 5 Servants.

If people keep neglecting Servant's like my boy Billy the Kid Imma start capping bitches
Aside from wanting more free W's for the big ttiddy waifu's
Honestly i'm having more fun with Raikou than anyone else here so you can blame on that lel
I wanna use Sigurd more often but his Magic Resistance are quite high, Hinako had that low high regen and (possible) type 8 immortality
 
Raikou doesn't really scale to Musashi's skill either, iirc that was a pretty easy fight for Musashi to win. But like I said, Raikou still has better feats than Erza even without scaling Raikou's skill to Musashi.
No I was just using it as a reference to show that Raikou has enough skill to fight against Swordsmen with precog and would thus be able to land hits on Erza as a result not that Raikou=Musashi

Personally speaking I think this is a blatant and evident stomp. Servant's now have 4-D Resistance to Magic, and 99% of Erza's arsenal is based around 3-D Magic. Unfortunately Velox tends to overlook basic things like this for the sake for making a match-up. (Same principles apply to the Meliodas and Raiden match.)
That's what I said
 
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Don't get me wrong, I love fun match up's but this along with her match against Meliodas and Ei are pretty big stomps. She (along with all Servant's.) resistant their stuff and not vice versa.

If you want a more balanced match for these Fate characters I'd try to look into characters who have high end hax like 4-D-5-D hax.
 
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As for whenever is this stomp or not i'll let the Fate supporters decide it

But Gin by what you said then almost every servants matches in their profiles need to be removed because the 4-D resistances, also
Don't get me wrong, I love fun match up's but this along with her match against Meliodas and Ei are pretty big stomps. She (along with all Servant's.) resistant their stuff and not vice versa.

If you want a more balanced match for these Fate characters I'd try to look into characters who have high end hax like 4-D-5-D hax.
Said the 4-D/5-D hax characters are difficult to find and its unfun as well
 
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Forgot to say this: Another factor is the servants invul as well, you have a chars that don't rely in magic but they are using modern power, good luck on that
 
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But Gin by what you said then almost every servants matches in their profiles need to be removed because the 4-D resistances,
Not to be rude but that's not really my issue. And I'd probably agree with that for the most part since most of their matches are against 3-D opponents with 3-D hax. Leaving them with only AP to deal with, which is pretty unfair all things considered.


Basically it's like me giving an Ant a toothpick and me expecting it to slay a fifth dimensional dragon.
 
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Forgot to say this: Another factor is the servants invul as well, you have a chars that don't rely in magic but they are using modern power, good luck on that
Not necessarily. As long as someone has something supernatural in general then they should be able to bypass said invulnerability because of the whole "mystery" thing.
 
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I really f***ing hope the 4-D resistances get downgraded because i hate this stuff like Reiatsu Crush#slapped
 
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I really f***ing hope the 4-D resistances get downgraded because i hate this stuff like Reiatsu Crush#slapped
Inb4 DontTalk or AKMsama downgrades

But for real though, that's just a general wiki issue. Back in my day the requirements for Higher D stuff was strict, and took a lot more than 2 or 3 statements that's riddled with Hyperbolic language (Not @ Fate but literally most of anime at this point.) rather than just accepting it as "Lol anime manga bullshit."
 
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If Servants do have 4-D Magic resistance then I give it to Raikou. Otherwise I'd give it barely to Erza due to the apparent AP advantage.
 
Where does Raikou have Conceptual anything in her profile?

And I don't recall Servant's having 4-D hax. They have 4-D abilities and such but Raikou doesn't have any notable hax that's actually reflected on her profile, although I'd assume this is a result of Fate generally having well, shit tier profiles when it comes to references and formating.


Edit: Eyup, it's just an issue regarding the pages basically being incoherent shit with all due respect. Like seriously that Servant Physiology page is awful. It doesn't actually bother on going over what Servant's have what abilities and resistances (Not all Servant's have Conceptual Weapons so that's misleading as fuck.)
All Servants have 4D Soul, Concept, Info Hax. Because to kill other Servants they must be able to destroy the Spirit Origin which is the soul. But it is necessary to remember that not all Servants will use these abilities, physical type fighter is more likely to use AP, using spiritual attacks only if needed.
 
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All Servants have 4D Soul, Concept, Info Hax. Because to kill other Servants they must be able to destroy the Spirit Origin which is the soul. But it is necessary to remember that not all Servants will use these abilities, physical type fighter is more likely to use AP, using spiritual attacks only if needed.
I never said they didn't? If you read what I said closer that's what I've been saying. What my actual statement is that Servant's don't have direct Conceptual Manipulation, they have Soul Manipulation on a Conceptual level.

It's a tad bit different than actual Conceptual Manipulation as that's a lot more versatile of an ability.
 
I never said they didn't? If you read what I said closer that's what I've been saying. What my actual statement is that Servant's don't have direct Conceptual Manipulation, they have Soul Manipulation on a Conceptual level.

It's a tad bit different than actual Conceptual Manipulation as that's a lot more versatile of an ability.
If so then it's my mistake, I'm sorry.

That's right, the Conceptual Manipulation Servant is not as versatile as the high-end Conceptual Manipulation, but the opponent must have resistance to CM in order to survive the Servant's conceptual attack. In this case, Raikou most likely won't use a conceptual attack, i guess.
 
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Inb4 DontTalk or AKMsama downgrades

But for real though, that's just a general wiki issue. Back in my day the requirements for Higher D stuff was strict, and took a lot more than 2 or 3 statements that's riddled with Hyperbolic language (Not @ Fate but literally most of anime at this point.) rather than just accepting it as "Lol anime manga bullshit."
This time i wish it will happen

Double Edged Sword effect basically, now the rules are kinda not strict but it given the verses too much power
 
@TrueKingOfHeroes Since you're here, do you think this is stomp based on what Maou and Gin comments?

Honestly i'm waiting for Expectro to comes but an earlier stuff is welcomed
As you said Erza's AP is 17.2 GT, it will be an advantage for Raikou who has 26.6 GT plus the amp of Mystery Killer and Mana Burst makes it higher. but it seems that Erza has a higher LS than Raikou which makes this match not a stomps.

The fight starts from a sword clash, when it happens Raikou will measure the opponent's ability through her sword skill, Erza won't be able to harm Raikou because of the AP and Durability gap, when Raikou finds it difficult she will retreat back and shoot Erza with an arrow, don't know if Erza can withstand the arrow from Raikou.
 
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Can Erza reistance negation do the work here? Just asking since even servants physiology doesn't have the resistance against that (heard that EXTRA Servants had that resistances but only for them from what i heard)
 
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I only saw Magic Resistance Negation, does it only apply to dragons? because Raikou is not a dragon iirc.

I just realized that this match is on Low 6-B key, so it seems Raikou can use her NP, and I don't know how high Erza is at Low 6-B.
 
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@TrueKingOfHeroes Since you're here, do you think this is stomp based on what Maou and Gin comments?

Honestly i'm waiting for Expectro to comes but an earlier stuff is welcomed
Honestly currently I don't care for the Raikou matches do to be busy with the Arifureta revision, work and uni, so I'm not gonna participate much in this fight or the other, though at least I'm gonna say that this shouldn't be a stomp, different to the other match Erza isn't dangerous enough to make Raikou decide to use a spiritual attack (the attack with lot of haxs), maybe she will use one late in the game if she is in too much danger but before that it's just a skill fight.

II just realized that this match is on Low 6-B key, so it seems Raikou can use her NP, and I don't know how high Erza is at Low 6-B.
This is X793 Erza no Limit Break one, she don't reach Low 6-B in this key, in the Low 6-B key this would be a stomp do to Raikou using instantly the lightning of her NP which would be a spiritual attack and thus fuck Erza, in the High 6-C key the AP difference isn't big enough to force her to use it.
 
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Personally speaking I feel like a lot of the hax on the wiki overall is just inflated. There's virtually zero difference between 4-D and 3-D soul destruction and such if the opponent doesn't have resistance.


Also Erza's resistance Negation is 3-D and only applies to Dragon based opponents, so she gets stomped, and keep in mind I enjoy FT more than I do Fate nowadays.
 

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I agree with Expectro, Raikou is unlikely to instantly use her np and erza has wincons, especially with her enchantments, so it's probably not a stomp, but raikou should still win most of the time through skill advantage, mana burst and NP
 
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Her enchantments aren't 4-D. Raikou has a 4-D resistance towards Erza's entire arsenal, her not using her NP from the start is irrelevant whenever her opponent gets negged because of the resistance.




Seriously if I made Reinhard vs Raikou you guys would fucking cry about it, now if I said it wasn't a stomp because Reinhard doesn't throw his spear from the get-go you guys would still call it a stomp. This shit is no different, and to be frank this is just a desperate attempt for Fate fans to add another W to Raikou's profile despite her having basically every advantage.
 

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Her enchantments aren't 4-D. Raikou has a 4-D resistance towards Erza's entire arsenal, her not using her NP from the start is irrelevant whenever her opponent gets negged because of the resistance.
pretty sure raikou has no resistance to getting hit by a sword, magic or not.
 
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And to be frank this is just a desperate attempt for Fate fans to add another W to Raikou's profile despite her having basically every advantage.
I mean she's not entirelly perfect at everything tho, so does every servants
I just found her pretty flexible and fun to use, thats it
 
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But in other hand, ever since the upgrades thread for Fate had applied, things are really hard for us with making the matches, so your comment about desperate attempt are likely true

Hurt but if this is the truth then so be it 😞
 
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I mean, she only null the hax that directly touch her, she don't null the force of a punch, sword or beam, she also don't null the enchanment the other part apply to themselfs, so Erza definitely can fight her, with the enchanment she even would have a AP advantage though not too big as I said in my first comment.
 
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And? She isn't gonna null them (she don't have the Magic Resistance to null her arounds), she only would resist the hax part of the swords not the physical damage they do.
 
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I remember that Servants, even with magic resistances, can still be damaged by magical attacks, as long as those are just raw energy/physical attacks, rather than status effects and hax.

IIRC, Kuzuki can damage Saber via reinforcement from Medea, the mana impregnated debris from Spartacus can break Jeanne's armor, and Fate/Kaleid let pretty clear that a raw mass of magical energy can ignore Magic Resistance from the likes of Rider.
 
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I remember that Servants, even with magic resistances, can still be damaged by magical attacks, as long as those are just raw energy/physical attacks, rather than status effects and hax.

IIRC, Kuzuki can damage Saber via reinforcement from Medea, the mana impregnated debris from Spartacus can break Jeanne's armor, and Fate/Kaleid let pretty clear that a raw mass of magical energy can ignore Magic Resistance from the likes of Rider.
Correct, it's like this, they null hax not the physical damage of for example a magical sword.
 
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So then let's say a Magic Blast would still damage them even with the resistance? Because that honestly sounds more like passive power null rather than outright resistance to Magic.


Either way the profile should reflect that since it's currently left vague.
 
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Pretty sure magic blasts also get negged since that’s what happened when Caster tried to blast Saber when she jumped Kuzuki.
 
I remember that Servants, even with magic resistances, can still be damaged by magical attacks, as long as those are just raw energy/physical attacks, rather than status effects and hax.

IIRC, Kuzuki can damage Saber via reinforcement from Medea, the mana impregnated debris from Spartacus can break Jeanne's armor, and Fate/Kaleid let pretty clear that a raw mass of magical energy can ignore Magic Resistance from the likes of Rider.
Magic Resistance is more Negation of Proper True Thematurgy and Magecraft like spells and Status ailments that type of stuff weapons imbued with magic like NP's and Raw Brute force can still damage them although it's a bit iffy
 
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Also from what I remember not every Servant resistance scales to 4-D, such as the elemental resistances. (Not really sure how you'd even qualify "4-D" fire and ice lol.)



But yeah the SP page definitely needs to be worked on.
 
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Off-topic note: My left eye are not feeling good (especially that there's a swollen in the below side)

Alright, so what's the concensus here?
 
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Considering that Servant's are magical beings themselves and they can harm each other through simple punches I don't think is iffy.
Magic Resistance is more Negation of Proper True Thematurgy and Magecraft like spells and Status ailments that type of stuff weapons imbued with magic like NP's and Raw Brute force can still damage them although it's a bit iffy
 
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So summing up, Erza's swords should be able to damage Raikou while her magical energy attacks (Fire, Electricity, Light) might or might not get cancelled by MR, depending on how they are fired.
 
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I guess this match is not worth of bump anymore lel

Good news is, i got an good opponent for Erza (no, its not from Fate), i also going to make an another Raikou match for @Oliver_de_jesus as well
 
Considering that Servant's are magical beings themselves and they can harm each other through simple punches I don't think is iffy.
No the iffy bit is that MR is meant to negate all Magic but techniques and weapons Imbued with it can still harm Servants with magic resistance even when weilded by non Servant Charachters E.g Rin, Shirou, Kuzuki
 
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