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Tiering System Revisions - Part 3

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I agree 100% with Sera. I never once got the implication reading Hypnos that there are infinite gates until you reach the level of the Outer Gods. Nothing outside of Hajun in Masadaverse ever seemed to be above infinite 1-A levels, and Umineko is just straight up ridiculously wanked personally. The Human Domain being 1-A in particular is just wrong.

I could do similar wanking to Elder Scrolls and say that the Aurbis is infinite levels above Baseline but I don't because I try to stay reasonable. And you could do similar things to the DC multiverse, having just the Bleed be Infinite D and the rest outersersal.
 
To reiterate:

I'm getting impatient with people claiming all these newly introduced verses have all these insane hierarchies and now our tier system must bend to their standards. That's not how it works.
 
I'd rather say "adapt"/"evolve". I don't think we're necessarily "bending" standards, rather this seems to me revising them to be better standards. After all the goal is to index and tier characters, the more that can be tiered, with even more precision the better :).
 
correct me if im wrong but hasn't singularity already been implemented for a long time now, but it's just people ignoring but only focuses on the taiji concept?
 
Matthew Schroeder said:
I agree 100% with Sera. I never once got the implication reading Hypnos that there are infinite gates until you reach the level of the Outer Gods.
Click to expand...
no blog has ever stated there's infinite gates and not only that the reasoning for infinite ladder hypnos is based on the vacua. when it comes to the gates theres only 2 gates but reaching the gates will have multiplicty amount of gates.
 
@Sera

Well, DarkLK provided very thorough evidence for Umineko in a revision thread early this year. Promestein has simply been too busy to apply what she learned from it to our profiles yet.

Anyway, what would you suggest that we should do then? Just ignoring this ongoing tiering system revision seems unwise.
 
I never said or implied that we should ignore this revision.

To repeat myself:

As it stands, I'm increasingly worried about how unreliable our ratings will be regardless of what we choose.

When you're ready to address the real problems we have with our ratings, you know where to contact me.
 
Obviously, as it stands, there will preferably need to be several CRTs by the supporters of each 1-A verse that may qualify for the higher-ends of the new system, to verify where they actually stand within it; It's not like we are just going to let people say what they want about the characters without any prior discussion and evaluation.
 
Sera EX said:
Listen carefully. All Hadou Gods are not infinite steps above baseline. The difference between each step can be as large as infinite. I've explained this in numerous ways above. In the case of Taikyoku values, the difference of one is enough to be considered infinite. To imply all the Hadou Gods are infinite steps above baseline is to assume they all have a value of infinity. They don't. They are however, infinitely above baseline. Hajun, however, has an immeasurable Taikyoku value. This is why perhaps only Hajun truly can be considered infinite steps above baseline.
Click to expand...
Last i check didn't shiori and mibu fought bootleg satanel who's taiji was the same as theirs at the time and shiori stacked her infinite possibilities onto her only to still get stomped by that bootleg? Idk what that can warrant seems more than infinite despite being the same taiji (this is from memory so anyone feel free to correct me). Sorry for this derail imma stop just wanted to point it out is all
 
The difference between steps can be as large as infinite. I don't know how many times I've said this. Shiori can stack infinites and still not increase her value by a single digit. That's the difference between infinite steps above baseline and simply being infinitely above baseline by any arbitrary degree.

You guys are acting as if I'm saying no character is infinitely above baseline when I never said that. That's a strawman and a complete misrepresentation of my argument.
 
@sera

If a character has only body size beyond dimensional, will it be eligible for a baseline in this new system?.
 
I think @TISS he was referring to "In the case of Taikyoku values, the difference of one is enough to be considered infinite.", (He talked abotu this while he bolded other parts so it was a bit confusing....) by saying that in the same Taiju value, Shiori multiplied her power by infinity and still got stomped by another God in the same value. Hence that the difference between each Taiju value is greater than infinity......is what I think he was referring to. My bad if it's wrong. And a knowledgeable member about Masada told me the same thing some days ago, so I don't think you're wrong TISS :).
 
>Greater than infinity.

You could argue that in a reality-fiction cosmology, the difference between layers is greater than infinite. It doesn't change a single thing about my argument anyway.

@Siperri

The new system is based on size, so yes.
 
If I may interject just once: if we're making "measurable outerversal" be 1-A and "immeasurable outerversal" become High 1-A, then why not just go with option 4 and place "uncountably infinite dimensions" at Low 1-A?

In my opinion, there's not much of a point in rearranging 1-B if we're gonna keep the core 1-A tier more-or-less the same and have strong inaccessibility go to High 1-A. As far as I can tell, the choice to push 1-B and High 1-B back to Low 1-B and 1-B respectively is dependent on the choice to move "baseline outerversal" to Low 1-A. If the latter isn't happening, then maybe the former shouldn't happen, either.

Under option 4, the 1-A tiers are still about inaccessibility in relation to lower tiers:

  • Low 1-A is a weakly inaccessible number of dimensions.
  • 1-A is a weakly inaccessible level beyond dimensions.
  • High 1-A is a strongly inaccessible level beyond 1-A.
As an added bonus, option 4 happens to be the path that involves the least amount of work. No currently existing tiers get moved around, we just add a low end and a high end to 1-A.

I don't particularly care if this idea gets shot down, but I still wanted to share it here.
 
Sera EX said:
To repeat myself:

As it stands, I'm increasingly worried about how unreliable our ratings will be regardless of what we choose.

When you're ready to address the real problems we have with our ratings, you know where to contact me.
Click to expand...
Well, I am obviously always open for suggestions from you. Feel free to explain what you think that we should do.
 
@KingPin

I still prefer to keep the 1-B and 1-A tiers as separate concepts, and we overwhelmingly did not vote for option 4.

In addition, I don't think that we feature any fictions that specifically use uncountably infinite dimensions or levels of infinity.
 
In addition, I don't think that we feature any fictions that specifically use uncountably infinite dimensions or levels of infinity.

We actually have a surprising amount of fictions that have uncountably infinite dimensions. SCP's one of them (although these revisions haven't been applied yet), and I think there's about half a dozen others.
 
Okay. In addition to what I mentioned earlier, I still think that it seems unnecessary to separate different types of infinite dimensions or similar into separate tiers though, especially if we mix them with something conceptually entirely different.
 
Here's some more uncountably infinite verses: Discworld, Twin Peaks, Marvel, Manifold, Dark Tower, Elder Scrolls, as well as SCP that I mentioned earlier

Apparently verses where infinite-dimensional levels are irrelevant but they're not outerversal would qualify for this, and so they may not need to specify "uncountably infinite".
 
@Ant They will be separated regardless of what option is chosen. Option 4 just makes it a sub tier of 1-A while option 2 makes it a sub tier of 1-B
 
I much prefer to make it a sub-tier of 1-B, to avoid any confusion and inappropriate mix-ups.

In addition, we already voted for options 2 and 3 with a together overwhelming majority.
 
I mean that although I have a lot of unfiltered perception and pattern-recognition regarding what really seems to be going on in the world, I am not mature enough to properly deal with it, and need relaxing upbeat entertainment to cheer up.

I'm similar, except I'm making plans to "deal with it."

I'm also not sure why people enjoy wathing other people's troubles, when life has too many of those already.
 
I can fully understand wanting 1-A as Baseline Outerversal, but if we are going to do such, then why exactly add in the extra workload of knocking down each tier in 1-B?

There is no need to worry about "uncountably infinite higher [insert stuff here]" being put as a subtier of 1-A, as I've already stated that you can have "beyond-dimensional" / fully aspatial and atemporal stuff at much lower tiers, and the new system is far more about size than anything, it's just that Outerverse level is where you start to get metaphysical sizes which are almost always defined as "above all forms of space-time" (or something like that) by default in most fictional verses. Besides, putting uncountably infinite stuff at Low 1-A is fitting in the context of the new system, since it is the point where inaccessible quantities begin in the first place.
 
My only reason was that 12+D is so vague and rarely found it should be Low 1-B rather than 1-B. 1-B would be infinite dimensional characters and High 1-B would be uncountably infinite characters.

Infinite and uncountable infinite dimensional characters are more common than 3524893625965-dimensional ones.
 
I am still uncomfortable with mixing up the properties of 1-B and 1-A. My apologies.

Sera's solution seems fine.
 
Sera EX said:
Infinite and uncountable infinite dimensional characters are more common than 3524893625965-dimensional ones.
Click to expand...
That seems kinda flawed. 12+ is any number between 12 and infinity, could be 13, could be 100, could be "countless", could be anything; mentioning a super specific number and noting infinite dimensions is more common doesn't really work
 
While not pushing for 12+ to remain 1-B, wouldn't every number represented by 1-B have to be compared against infinite D to determine which is more common? Just looking at one example of a 1-B cosmology doesn't really make sense since infinite d would be high 1-B as a whole

(Using the current system and terminology to avoid confusion btw)
 
Just do what Ultima and Aeyu want as they're the ones who carefully built these new parameters. I'm more worried about and am busy with our community than to care about the semantics of this anymore. Do what is best for our ratings without bias, that's my advice.
 
Antvasima said:
I am still uncomfortable with mixing up the properties of 1-B and 1-A. My apologies.

Sera's solution seems fine.
Click to expand...
My point is that the "1-A" category in the new system is more about inaccessible sizes than "lol existing beyond dimensions" per se. Baseline Outerversal (1-A in Option 4) is just the point where space-time dimensions and the metric defining them become irrelevant by default, but it still isn't just about this (Basically, 1-A is "beyond-dimensional", but the reverse isn't necessarily true). Having uncountably infinite higher layers / planes / dimensions as Low 1-A makes sense because it is the point where inaccessibility proper starts, and what comes just before full-on Outerverse level appears (Hence it is Low 1-A)
 
@Ultima

I have a question. The main reason for not wanting option 4 low 1-A is that it groups together characters of completely different nature, but whst kind of difference exists between the nature of 1-As and High 1-As under the definition we are currently opting for? If the difference is as severe as difference between uncountable D and baseline outerversal, it may not be out of question to use that definition of low 1-A
 
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