• This forum is strictly intended to be used by members of the VS Battles wiki. Please only register if you have an autoconfirmed account there, as otherwise your registration will be rejected. If you have already registered once, do not do so again, and contact Antvasima if you encounter any problems.

    For instructions regarding the exact procedure to sign up to this forum, please click here.
  • We need Patreon donations for this forum to have all of its running costs financially secured.

    Community members who help us out will receive badges that give them several different benefits, including the removal of all advertisements in this forum, but donations from non-members are also extremely appreciated.

    Please click here for further information, or here to directly visit our Patreon donations page.
  • Please click here for information about a large petition to help children in need.

Tier 9-C Streets of Violence Tournament (2022): Chris Jericho vs Satou Kazuma

Alright, so we obviously know Jericho is far more skilled than Kazuma here, and he has The Judas Effect, Poison Mist, and Fireballs that will end the fight if hit.

However, Kazuma does have his Supernatural Luck, so it will be very hard for Jericho to land something good here. I don't think Kazuma is going to get lucky every time, but he will get lucky quite a bit here.

Although, Jericho's significant skill gap, along with his IR does make him a hard opponent to hit, and Pain Tolerance will make him hard to put down.

This is honestly a close matchup.
Fireballs won't end the fight. Kazuma can put out the fire with his Create Water skill. And if he wants to return the favor (which is likely in this case), he'll throw out his own balls of fire. If he does do this, Chris on the other hand doesn't seem to have a way of putting it out.

The poison mist won't be very effective because of Kazuma's extrasensory perception and enhanced senses, which he can use to detect the location of Chris even if he can't see him.

The Judas Effect would be hard to land because Kazuma would probably get the **** away after realizing that Chris is extremely skilled.

With Create Earth, Kazuma can slow down Chris or even make it so it's nearly impossible to move by surrounding his legs with rocks.

Not sure if Kazuma's bow is restricted her but if it isn't Kazuma is also likely to just run away and [Snipe] him to death. Kazuma is so lucky that his arrows are pretty much-guaranteed hits. This wouldn't be hard since with the [Escape] skill Kazuma can boost his speed and in combination with Presence Concealment, he can temporarily remove himself from Chris' sight.

If that's not possible [Bind] could potentially end the fight immediately.

If that isn't possible Kazuma can try stealing his clothes to catch him off guard or make him embarrassed.

Basically, Kazuma has a lot of versatility.
 
Not sure if Kazuma's bow is restricted her but if it isn't Kazuma is also likely to just run away and [Snipe] him to death. Kazuma is so lucky that his arrows are pretty much-guaranteed hits. This wouldn't be hard since with the [Escape] skill Kazuma can boost his speed and in combination with Presence Concealment, he can temporarily remove himself from Chris' sight.
Iirc the bow is restricted, just too ranged lol
 
If that's not possible [Bind] could potentially end the fight immediately.
We’ve already gone over how Jericho’s skill makes Kazuma’s luck not as big of an asset as it usually is, Kazuma relies on that to land his chains and other hits


If that isn't possible Kazuma can try stealing his clothes to catch him off guard or make him embarrassed.
I mean... there’s not a whole lot to take off that most wrestlers have not had off before, in front of thousands of people in arenahe’d have to go for the underwear to really have any effect, and that’s technically grappling, something he doesn’t have a hope of achieving, it just leaves him vulnerable

I can’t believe this is a discussion we have to have this discussion...


Fireballs won't end the fight. Kazuma can put out the fire with his Create Water skill. And if he wants to return the favor (which is likely in this case), he'll throw out his own balls of fire. If he does do this, Chris on the other hand doesn't seem to have a way of putting it out.
His water is useful but if he gets hit the pain will disorientate him a little, enough for an opening anyways. Jericho himself can literally fight fire with fire, cancelling out the fireballs with his own.


With Create Earth, Kazuma can slow down Chris or even make it so it's nearly impossible to move by surrounding his legs with rocks.
Chris can probably break free through fireballs or pure physical might.


Kazuma has some of the best options in this tournament, but Jericho has counters to most of his deadliest options, and has impressive advantages in his own right.

Voting Jericho high-mid diff
 
Not in the mood for debating extensively today after all the shit that happened yesterday, but I'll try my best to sound competent lol

Fireballs won't end the fight. Kazuma can put out the fire with his Create Water skill. And if he wants to return the favor (which is likely in this case), he'll throw out his own balls of fire. If he does do this, Chris on the other hand doesn't seem to have a way of putting it out.
Many issues with this one. This is assuming Chris will just stand there and let Kazuma put out the fire. He's going to rush and end the fight as quickly as possible. I find it kind of hard to believe that Chris is going to get hit with the fireball due to his skill (which negates Kazuma's luck to an extent) and IR, which will be very helpful here. Also, Jericho can fight fire on fire quite literally here lol

The poison mist won't be very effective because of Kazuma's extrasensory perception and enhanced senses, which he can use to detect the location of Chris even if he can't see him.
But the thing is that Chris won't be hiding from Kazuma at all. Being able to detect someone's location even if you can't see them is useless if the person is standing right in front of you.

Let me correct myself here. I just realized what you meant by this. Kazuma won't be too affected by this because he'd still be able to sense where Chris is despite being blinded, though Kazuma will be in great amounts of pain here, and that can lead to Jericho winning if he's quick enough to end it when hits the mist. To answer that, Jericho will automatically try to end the fight the moment he sprays the mist in Kazuma's eyes.

The Judas Effect would be hard to land because Kazuma would probably get the **** away after realizing that Chris is extremely skilled.
Eh, fair point I guess, but I'm inclined to believe that Chris would be able to overwhelm Kazuma to then hit The Judas Effect.

This wouldn't be hard since with the [Escape] skill Kazuma can boost his speed and in combination with Presence Concealment, he can temporarily remove himself from Chris' sight.
Jericho has dealt with people who have Accelerated Development, which gives them a boost in speed (Kenny Omega), but Presence Concealment would be helpful.

If that's not possible [Bind] could potentially end the fight immediately.
What does Bind do again? Is it the chain thing that was mentioned before? Just checked and it is. I already said that this comes with Kazuma's luck, and it's already been stated that someone who's sufficient in combat can counter it. I'm pretty sure I don't need to explain how skilled Jericho is, and the massive skill advantage Jericho has as well.

If that isn't possible Kazuma can try stealing his clothes to catch him off guard or make him embarrassed.
Now this would be funny to see lmao

Basically, Kazuma has a lot of versatility.
Agreed, but Jericho has his own level of versatility as well, and he has more than enough skill to negate Kazuma's luck to an extent.

Overall, I'll go with Jericho mid-high diff here. Kazuma definitely has ways to end this fight (which already says a lot compared to almost everyone else in the tournament), and some of the options Kazuma can do here would be absolutely hilarious to see, but Kazuma relies heavily on his luck, and it won't be as effective here against someone as skilled as Jericho.
 
Many issues with this one. This is assuming Chris will just stand there and let Kazuma put out the fire. He's going to rush and end the fight as quickly as possible. I find it kind of hard to believe that Chris is going to get hit with the fireball due to his skill (which negates Kazuma's luck to an extent) and IR, which will be very helpful here. Also, Jericho can fight fire on fire quite literally here lol

He can create enough water to completely submerge both of them in it, while also pushing Jericho away from him. Also skill won't prevent him from getting sniped by a fireball, since his accuracy is godly due to luck.

But the thing is that Chris won't be hiding from Kazuma at all. Being able to detect someone's location even if you can't see them is useless if the person is standing right in front of you.

Isn't the whole advantage of the poison mist that it prevents the person from seeing you?

Jericho has dealt with people who have Accelerated Development, which gives them a boost in speed (Kenny Omega), but Presence Concealment would be helpful.

Accelerated Development isn't the same as a sudden Stat Amp, though. Stat Amps are instant. And Jericho isn't going to be able to keep up if Kazuma escapes his reach.

What does Bind do again? Is it the chain thing that was mentioned before? Just checked and it is. I already said that this comes with Kazuma's luck, and it's already been stated that someone who's sufficient in combat can counter it. I'm pretty sure I don't need to explain how skilled Jericho is, and the massive skill advantage Jericho has as well.

It's still an option, and from close range, it'd be pretty hard to dodge. It can also expand to cover a large area.
 
He can create enough water to completely submerge both of them in it, while also pushing Jericho away from him. Also skill won't prevent him from getting sniped by a fireball, since his accuracy is godly due to luck.
by the way don't forget the Drain Touch
 
He can create enough water to completely submerge both of them in it, while also pushing Jericho away from him.
This is fair.

Isn't the whole advantage of the poison mist that it prevents the person from seeing you?
I ****** up there and I fixed my point lmao. I read your point wrong lol

Accelerated Development isn't the same as a sudden Stat Amp, though. Stat Amps are instant. And Jericho isn't going to be able to keep up if Kazuma escapes his reach
The thing is that Jericho will quickly adapt to this, as he's faced people with similar abilities.

It's still an option, and from close range, it'd be pretty hard to dodge. It can also expand to cover a large area.
If he's trying to do it at close range, then he's ****** due to the massive skill gap between the two. Kazuma will have to do it at a range. Plus, going by where the fight is located, Jericho can find a way to escape before it's too late, if the chains cover a large area. Plus, I highly doubt that Kazuma will cover a very large area with the chains against the average sized human.

by the way don't forget the Drain Touch
What does that do?
 
and another thing he has is his Drain touch ability, an ability wich he can drain the stamina or the Mana of the opponent when Kazuma directly touch him
Okay, so this is what the Drain touch does. Well, can Kazuma even lay a finger on Chris due to the skill gap here?
 
What does that do?
Drain Touch: The ability to steal stamina and mana from a target who he has made direct contact with, and transfer it to either himself or another person that he is making contact with. Drain Touch is most effective when absorbing from somewhere with thin skin, close to the heart.
 
The thing is that Jericho will quickly adapt to this, as he's faced people with similar abilities.

I don't think he can simply "adapt" to Kazuma getting a decent multiplier in speed when he escapes from close range. At least not in time for him to catch up lol.

[Escape] also makes it easier for Kazuma to dodge attacks, which in combination with his luck, would make it very difficulty for Chris to hit him.

If he's trying to do it at close range, then he's ****** due to the massive skill gap between the two. Kazuma will have to do it at a range. Plus, going by where the fight is located, Jericho can find a way to escape before it's too late, if the chains cover a large area. Plus, I highly doubt that Kazuma will cover a very large area with the chains against the average sized human.

Not entirely. Close range could mean just a few meters away. Far enough to be out of range of Chris' physical attacks but still close enough to successfully deploy the trap.

[Drain Touch] won't be too effective here since Chris has a lot of stamina and touching him will admittedly be quite difficult.
 
I mean... there’s not a whole lot to take off that most wrestlers have not had off before, in front of thousands of people in arenahe’d have to go for the underwear to really have any effect, and that’s technically grappling, something he doesn’t have a hope of achieving, it just leaves him vulnerable

Underwear would be the first thing he'd take.

His water is useful but if he gets hit the pain will disorientate him a little, enough for an opening anyways. Jericho himself can literally fight fire with fire, cancelling out the fireballs with his own.

Kazuma has been on fire before, it wouldn't be anything new.

Chris can probably break free through fireballs or pure physical might.

You don't just break out of Class M via pure physical might when you have peak human LS.
 
So basically, I vote Kazuma for these reasons:
  • Every ability Chris has sans his skill-related ones are shut down by Kazuma's own abilities. Fire ball is useless because of Create Water. Poison Mist doesn't do anything because Kazuma doesn't need his eyes to "see" people. And his finishing move can be avoided by Kazuma via Escape, which boosts his evasion and his speed significantly.
  • Kazuma has way more versatility than Chris. Fire balls could catch him on fire. Wind could push him back if he gets to close. Earth could bind him to the ground, making it hard to move. Water makes Chris' fire abilities useless and can also be used to push him back. Lots of things here.
  • While Chris is skilled, Kazuma is lucky asf. And even without luck, Kazuma is still quite skilled with a sword. He's not a master or anything, but he's definitely skilled enough to abuse that range advantage to the fullest extent. And because he'd likely steal all of Chris' clothes, he'll have no protection against his blade.
  • Kazuma has a way of ending the fight immediately with [Bind]. Sure Chris can dodge it, but Kazuma has multiple tries at this and from close range, it'd be very, very hard to dodge.
  • Kazuma can mimic his magical attacks and use them against him.
  • Kazuma can steal any weapon that Chris tries to use.
 
Underwear would be the first thing he'd take.
My point isn’t that he wouldn’t try, my point is that he has bugger all chance of grappling Jericho for his underwear and he only leaves himself vulnerable to whatever attack Jericho sees fit trying
 
My point isn’t that he wouldn’t try, my point is that he has bugger all chance of grappling Jericho for his underwear and he only leaves himself vulnerable to whatever attack Jericho sees fit trying
Kazuma's steal works from a distance... It's telekinesis/teleportation. No need to grapple for it.

Is it not the chains that are Class M? How physically durable are the rocks, can they be broken by hitting them?
Yeah, the chains are Class M, something he has no hope of escaping from.

They are just normal rocks, so yeah, but it would give Kazuma some time to attack.
 
They are just normal rocks, so yeah, but it would give Kazuma some time to attack
Isn’t Kazuma’s whole wincon here stating ranged? Jericho will have the rocks broken very quick so it doesn’t buy him time to do anything he wouldn’t normally be able to do anyways, if he tried charging at Jericho with his sword he would probably be hit with a Judas Effect
 
Isn’t Kazuma’s whole wincon here stating ranged? Jericho will have the rocks broken very quick so it doesn’t buy him time to do anything he wouldn’t normally be able to do anyways, if he tried charging at Jericho with his sword he would probably be hit with a Judas Affect
He can just continue spamming it. And if Jericho can't move for even a second, that leaves him open to Kazuma's sword or any of his other elemental abilities.

Not to mention his actual [Bind], which wins the fight if it gets him. How can he dodge that if he's stuck in rocks for a few seconds?
 
He can just continue spamming it. And if Jericho can't move for even a second, that leaves him open to Kazuma's sword or any of his other elemental abilities.
My belief that Kazuma would spam this one ability over and over again in character is at approximately 0. If Kazuma is playing a ranged games, which he has to to succeed here, then he won’t be able to capitalise with melee attacks in “even a second”‘s time
 
My belief that Kazuma would spam this one ability over and over again in character is at approximately 0. If Kazuma is playing a ranged games, which he has to to succeed here, then he won’t be able to capitalise with melee attacks in “even a second”‘s time
You must not know Kazuma that well then because him abusing his powers in a dirty manner like that is 100% in character lmao.

This is probably a good time for me to mention his clear intelligence advantage. Kazuma is great at planning out things like this to capitalize on any weakness his opponent has.
 
Voting Kazuma for Phoenks’ reasoning. Chris doesn’t have the range to beat Kazuma while Kazuma wouldn’t want to be anywhere near Chris even before learning about the enormous skill disadvantage and would just try to zone him from range. Even if Chris gets close enough to put his hands on Kazuma, Bind will be that much harder to dodge and is a reusable instant win here.
 
While Chris is skilled, Kazuma is lucky asf. And even without luck, Kazuma is still quite skilled with a sword. He's not a master or anything, but he's definitely skilled enough to abuse that range advantage to the fullest extent.
It’s already been stated that Kazuma’s luck has limits in making up skill disadvantages, I have no doubt Jericho exceeds that limit. Also, not to get into Rock Paper Scissor arguments but when master swordsmen like Slade or extremely skilled fighters like Tsukasa can’t manage explicit wins over Jericho I have a hard time believing Kazuma will manage some strategy or technique with his sword the other two lacked to make sure he gets the full worth of his range advantage.
 
Voting Kazuma for Phoenks’ reasoning. Chris doesn’t have the range to beat Kazuma while Kazuma wouldn’t want to be anywhere near Chris even before learning about the enormous skill disadvantage and would just try to zone him from range. Even if Chris gets close enough to put his hands on Kazuma, Bind will be that much harder to dodge and is a reusable instant win here.
Would the Judas Effect not be just as good of a win-con from close range as bind here?
 
Is it lmao, jeez he sounds annoying to fight
He is VERY annoying to fight because he's smart. He throws all dignity and respect for himself and his opponent when he fights. He'll do whatever he thinks he needs to do to win. If that requires him to spam attacks again and again, steal underwear or weapons, attack weak spots (like his ******* dick cus dude will literally steal all his clothes), he will NOT hesitate.
 
Man, that annoyed me. Now I gotta type everything all over again.

I don't think he can simply "adapt" to Kazuma getting a decent multiplier in speed when he escapes from close range. At least not in time for him to catch up lol.
Let me get this point out of the way, and let me show you how Kenny Omega's Accelerated Development works.

Get's a "surge of energy" his fighting style rapidly increases as the match goes and he can counter people with superior speed. Jericho was able to fight and defeat Omega, who can do this. At best, this speed boost Kazuma has is going to catch Jericho off guard at best. Jericho will quickly adapt to this.

[Escape] also makes it easier for Kazuma to dodge attacks, which in combination with his luck, would make it very difficulty for Chris to hit him.
Jericho's skill negates the luck by a good extent, but this is fair to use all things considered. Jericho will be extremely hard to hit as well, so they're pretty much even here.

Not entirely. Close range could mean just a few meters away. Far enough to be out of range of Chris' physical attacks but still close enough to successfully deploy the trap.
And Jericho will be able to hit his range attacks, and he can still dodge it due to skill and IR.

Underwear would be the first thing he'd take.
This will definitely throw Jericho off his game for a moment. Jericho will charge at Kazuma in anger though, so Kazuma will have to be on guard, as he's about to be going into a 1v1 H2H fight with someone far more skilled than him.

Kazuma has been on fire before, it wouldn't be anything new.
The thing is that Jericho will immediately capitalize on this opportunity, leaving Kazuma basically no time to recover.

You don't just break out of Class M via pure physical might when you have peak human LS.
Correction: Class 5 LS, but your point still stands. Problem is that it's going to be very, very hard for Kazuma to use his Bind ability against someone like Jericho.

Every ability Chris has sans his skill-related ones are shut down by Kazuma's own abilities. Fire ball is useless because of Create Water.
??? It's going to be useful because Jericho's not going to give Kazuma anytime to recover.

Poison Mist doesn't do anything because Kazuma doesn't need his eyes to "see" people.
This is fair, but the pain from the Poison Mist will be excruciating, which will make it very hard for Kazuma to focus and pinpoint Jericho's location.

And his finishing move can be avoided by Kazuma via Escape, which boosts his evasion and his speed significantly.
Already debunked, thanks to Jericho fighting someone who can random bursts of speed, and being able to counter people with superior speed. Heck, Jericho has dealt with having the speed disadvantage many, many times, so this is nothing new to him.

Kazuma has way more versatility than Chris. Fire balls could catch him on fire.
Jericho can fight fire on fire. Plus, Jericho can casually dodge like it's nothing.

Wind could push him back if he gets to close.
That's fair.

Earth could bind him to the ground, making it hard to move.
How does this work? Is this the bind ability again? Or is it something else?

Water makes Chris' fire abilities useless and can also be used to push him back.
Actually, I'm not too sure if Kazuma's will be quick enough to negate the fireballs. It comes in very, very quickly. How long does it take for Kazuma's water to activate?

While Chris is skilled, Kazuma is lucky asf. And even without luck, Kazuma is still quite skilled with a sword. He's not a master or anything, but he's definitely skilled enough to abuse that range advantage to the fullest extent.
Thing is the skill gap is very, very big. And like you said, Kazuma's luck is significantly less effective against skilled fighters. Jericho is leagues above Kazuma in skill. A sword isn't going to help here.

And because he'd likely steal all of Chris' clothes, he'll have no protection against his blade.
He'd start with Chris' underwear, like you said. And even if Jericho will have protection, he's still far too skilled to be hit.

Kazuma has a way of ending the fight immediately with [Bind]. Sure Chris can dodge it, but Kazuma has multiple tries at this and from close range, it'd be very, very hard to dodge.
IR? Jericho has fireballs and poison mist to counter this as well if Kazuma even tries to do this. Jericho's fireballs and poison mist will hit Kazuma quicker, as it hasn't been shown that the chains will come out as quick as Jericho's fireballs and poison mist.

Kazuma can mimic his magical attacks and use them against him.
Fair, but once again, Kazuma will have to hit Jericho with it, and we already know how hard it is to hit Jericho here.

Kazuma can steal any weapon that Chris tries to use
There's still multiple weapons Jericho can use here, plus, can Kazuma even use the other weapons efficiently?

He can just continue spamming it. And if Jericho can't move for even a second, that leaves him open to Kazuma's sword or any of his other elemental abilities.
Jericho in this key is far more aggressive than his WWE key, so he won't hesitate to spam fireballs and poison mist if needed. The same applies to the Judas Effect. Plus, if Kazuma even thinks about charging at Jericho with his sword, then good luck with that, as Jericho can counter moves into finishers.

Even if Chris gets close enough to put his hands on Kazuma
The moment Chris gets his hands on Kazuma is when Kazuma gets his ass beat.

He is VERY annoying to fight because he's smart. He throws all dignity and respect for himself and his opponent when he fights. He'll do whatever he thinks he needs to do to win. If that requires him to spam attacks again and again, steal underwear or weapons, attack weak spots (like his ******* dick cus dude will literally steal all his clothes), he will NOT hesitate.
Jericho is arguably smarter. Jericho won't hesitate to play dirty as well. Especially in his AEW key. Professional Wrestlers who play dirty like Jericho will not hesitate for low blows (kicking people in the dick) as well.

Plus, I'm sure you don't want to dive into Jericho's Social Influencing, as that can change the tide of the fight immediately...

Overall, Kazuma's mainly rely on luck, which has been said many times Jericho can negate thanks to the massive skill gap here. Not to mention IR, which works offensively and defensively. Kazuma's speed boost is basically useless, as Jericho has fought and defeated who not only hold speed advantages over him, but can also gain bursts of speed, being able to counter people superior in speed.

Kazuma's only real plausible win con is Bind, which has been said already that it will be very hard to pull off.

Jericho's skill overall just trumps Kazuma's versatility for the most part.

Also, if you want to debate Jericho's Social Influencing, I'd be more than happy to.
 
Let me get this point out of the way, and let me show you how Kenny Omega's Accelerated Development works.

Get's a "surge of energy" his fighting style rapidly increases as the match goes and he can counter people with superior speed. Jericho was able to fight and defeat Omega, who can do this. At best, this speed boost Kazuma has is going to catch Jericho off guard at best. Jericho will quickly adapt to this.

Catching Jericho off guard is all Kazuma needs to do. Also, in this case, it's a literal multiplier of speed, not just a slight speed increase. The scan you provided is nowhere near the gap of speed he would be dealing with here.

Saying he can instantly adapt to it is wank.

Jericho's skill negates the luck by a good extent, but this is fair to use all things considered. Jericho will be extremely hard to hit as well, so they're pretty much even here.

Even assuming they're even, Kazuma still has drastic versatility and range advantages, so Jericho is still at the disadvantage.

Jericho can fight fire on fire. Plus, Jericho can casually dodge like it's nothing.

Dodge until he gets bound by either Earth manipulation or [Bind]. Even without those abilities, Kazuma's snipe skill makes his accuracy godlike. Can't dodge forever.

Actually, I'm not too sure if Kazuma's will be quick enough to negate the fireballs. It comes in very, very quickly. How long does it take for Kazuma's water to activate?

Instant.

He'd start with Chris' underwear, like you said. And even if Jericho will have protection, he's still far too skilled to be hit.

He can steal the rest of his clothing instantly.

Assuming that Kazuma, who is skilled even without luck, simply can't hit Jericho... Is wank. That range advantage is too much, and Jericho has been hit plenty of times before by similarly skilled opponents lol.

IR? Jericho has fireballs and poison mist to counter this as well if Kazuma even tries to do this. Jericho's fireballs and poison mist will hit Kazuma quicker, as it hasn't been shown that the chains will come out as quick as Jericho's fireballs and poison mist.

None of that will prevent him from eventually catching him with Bind and completely ending the fight.

There's still multiple weapons Jericho can use here, plus, can Kazuma even use the other weapons efficiently?

Yes. Doesn't matter that there's plenty. He can steal em instantly and throw them away.

Jericho in this key is far more aggressive than his WWE key, so he won't hesitate to spam fireballs and poison mist if needed. The same applies to the Judas Effect. Plus, if Kazuma even thinks about charging at Jericho with his sword, then good luck with that, as Jericho can counter moves into finishers.

Both get countered. And his binding skills prevent Jericho from countering efficiently.
 
How good is Kazuma with Social influencing users because Chris plays dirty as well.
Kazuma has enough charisma to literally influence gods... Lets not even talk about it.

If anything, Kazuma has better social influencing lmao.
 
Back
Top