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Tier 9-C Streets of Violence Tournament (2022): Chris Jericho vs Satou Kazuma

Pikaman said:
You know well how little the word “God” means out of context on this wiki. Some verses have God’s with perfectly human behaviours and are capable of being manipulated as easily as them
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Well aside from manipulating gods, he can manipulate entire towns and cities. The dude is massively charismatic and basically befriends every single person he meets no matter how much a dick he is to them lol.
 
Phoenks said:
Well aside from manipulating gods, he can manipulate entire towns and cities. The dude is massively charismatic and basically befriends every single person he meets no matter how much a dick he is to them lol.
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Jericho has manipulated the WWE Universe before, which is the thousands inside the arena, and the millions watching on TV worldwide, entire towns and cities is obviously incredibly impressive, but falls just shy of Jericho
 
Pikaman said:
Jericho has manipulated the WWE Universe before, which is the thousands inside the arena, and the millions watching on TV worldwide, entire towns and cities is obviously incredibly impressive, but falls just shy of Jericho
Click to expand...
Except how did he manipulate them, exactly? From what I've seen his social influence isn't that profound, he's just famous. And the number doesn't matter much if it is weak overall.
 
Phoenks said:
Well aside from manipulating gods, he can manipulate entire towns and cities. The dude is massively charismatic and basically befriends every single person he meets no matter how much a dick he is to them lol.
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And how many people are in this town/city?

Jericho can manipulate thousands of people across a month without even saying a word.
 
I don't think Social Influencing scales in potency by how many people it works on
Or else Jericho would have superior SI than Junko
 
Phoenks said:
Except how did he manipulate them, exactly? From what I've seen his social influence isn't that profound, he's just famous. And the number doesn't matter much if it is weak overall.
Click to expand...
??? He constantly panders to the crowd and makes it seem like he's the good guy. He did this across the span of a month without even speaking to them. It's not because he's famous. Wrestlers like The Rock get boo'd by the people (who's one of the most charismatic wrestlers to ever step foot in a ring). Though this is when he's insulting them.

I don't think Kazuma can compare to this.
 
Adem_Warlock69 said:
I don't think Social Influencing scales in potency by how many people it works on
Or else Jericho would have superior SI than Junko
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I'm pretty sure it does.

If your Social Influencing is so good where you can trick thousands of people without saying a word, then it's pretty ******* potent.
 
RandomGuy2345 said:
??? He constantly panders to the crowd and makes it seem like he's the good guy. He did this across the span of a month without even speaking to them. It's not because he's famous. Wrestlers like The Rock get boo'd by the people (who's one of the most charismatic wrestlers to ever step foot in a ring). Though this is when he's insulting them.

I don't think Kazuma can compare to this.
Click to expand...
The amount of people is just because he's famous, lol. Not because he inherently has some crazy influence ability.

Kazuma on the other hand, he isn't really famous, he's just so charismatic and influencing that he can manipulate that amount of people.
 
Phoenks said:
The amount of people is just because he's famous, lol. Not because he inherently has some crazy influence ability.
Click to expand...
Do you have any idea how many WWE wrestlers don’t get the support of the crowd? Being famous or not has nothing to do with it, Bálor got huge pops on his debut day in the main roster, Roman Reigns has been booed at the peak of his notability, even sometimes as a baby face.
 
Phoenks said:
The amount of people is just because he's famous, lol. Not because he inherently has some crazy influence ability.

Kazuma on the other hand, he isn't really famous, he's just so charismatic and influencing that he can manipulate that amount of people.
Click to expand...
Being famous has nothing to do with it whatsoever.

You know how famous John Cena and The Rock are? Well, even the crowd boos them, even when they were portrayed to be the babyfaces.

This is hella downplay. Just because you're famous, doesn't mean you can easily trick people.

This makes literally zero sense.
 
RandomGuy2345 said:
Being famous has nothing to do with it whatsoever.

You know how famous John Cena and The Rock are? Well, even the crowd boos them, even when they were portrayed to be the babyfaces.

This is hella downplay. Just because you're famous, doesn't mean you can easily trick people.

This makes literally zero sense.
Click to expand...
It doesn't make "literally zero sense."

He only has the ability to affect that many people BECAUSE he is famous. He's being broadcasted to that many people while he fights. Everyone has their eyes on him.

You seem to be misunderstanding the argument I'm making.
 
Pikaman said:
Roman Reigns has been booed at the peak of his notability, even sometimes as a baby face.
Click to expand...
Correct that to most of the time as a baby face.

Even the people who you're meant to like such as John Cena we're getting boo'd by the crowd as faces at a point in their career.
 
Adem_Warlock69 said:
I think tricking foes or convincing them to join your side is a bit more impressive than manipulating the audience into thinking you're a good lad
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100% true btw. Even disregarding the fact that Chris wouldn't be nearly that influential if he wasn't famous in the first place lol.
 
Adem_Warlock69 said:
I think tricking foes or convincing them to join your side is a bit more impressive than manipulating the audience into thinking you're a good lad
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That's quite literally what Jericho did lol. He made the whole audience join his side due to his antics, making them think he's a good person.

Plus, Jericho is more than capable of convincing people to join their side. That's a common trope in wrestling.
 
Phoenks said:
It doesn't make "literally zero sense."

He only has the ability to affect that many people BECAUSE he is famous. He's being broadcasted to that many people while he fights. Everyone has their eyes on him.

You seem to be misunderstanding the argument I'm making.
Click to expand...
This argument is so dumb. It doesn't matter how famous you are.

There are wrestlers far more famous than Jericho that were boo'd by the crowd before (The Rock and John Cena already come to mind).

The point I just made there alone debunks your point. People who are far more famous than Jericho were boo'd before by the crowd, and they were also baby faces as well during that time (especially Cena).
 
The whole influence argument isn't getting anyone any advantages here both are dirty players Jericho has a big mouth and he showing middle finger, Kazuma will be a jerk

Wait WWE Jericho influence available in AEW ?
 
DemonicDude said:
The whole influence argument isn't getting anyone any advantages here both are dirty players Jericho has a big mouth and he showing middle finger, Kazuma will be a jerk

Wait WWE Jericho influence available in AEW ?
Click to expand...
Yes???

Every ability Jericho has in his WWE key applies to his AEW key. He's basically the same guy, but in a different company.
 
Well I mean yeah, the two verses are linked under VSBW standards, so anything that chronologically happened with Jericho before joining AEW applies, his profile states as such.
 
Voting Kazuma, sorry friendos, but panty thief here has too many counters and absurd luck, plus far more versatile abilities and magic, while if it goes hand to hand combat not involving magic, Jericho would easily take it, but Kazuma, being the sneaky ****** he is, is going to try and negate any advantage, possibly just using magic to sit and laugh as he rains his magic attacks on Jericho
 
RandomGuy2345 said:
This argument is so dumb. It doesn't matter how famous you are.

There are wrestlers far more famous than Jericho that were boo'd by the crowd before (The Rock and John Cena already come to mind).

The point I just made there alone debunks your point. People who are far more famous than Jericho were boo'd before by the crowd, and they were also baby faces as well during that time (especially Cena).
Click to expand...
It doesn't debunk anything, Random. You're refusing to acknowledge the fact that none of these people would care at all if he wasn't on the big screen in the first place. He only has that much influence (GOOD OR BAD) because HE IS FAMOUS. Them getting boos or whatever does not matter...

Kazuma on the other hand, through sheer charisma, can accomplish the same thing without these people even knowing who he is.

And just to completely destroy this argument even further, Kazuma can manipulate people who are far harder to manipulate than humans.

Here are some examples.
 
Phoenks said:
Kazuma on the other hand, through sheer charisma, can accomplish the same thing without these people even knowing who he is.
Click to expand...
You do realise Jericho had to make a debut and all that right? He didn’t just step into the ring for the first time with a million pre-made fans on his side
 
That said, while I am debating on Jericho’s side for SI I’ll be changing my vote to Kazuma, he has variety and abilities that I don’t think Jericho can ultimately handle.

Honestly Kazuma is lucky to be here since he got into the bracket without me ever approving him but eh nothing in here looks too broken, maybe just the chains
 
Pikaman said:
You do realise Jericho had to make a debut and all that right? He didn’t just step into the ring for the first time with a million pre-made fans on his side
Click to expand...
This point is moot because he was still effectively famous when he debuted because all these people were watching him. It's far easier to influence people when they are literally watching you from the start... You're acting like every famous person should have crazy, supernatural levels of social influence because they have a large audience.

This is such a stupid argument.

Kazuma's Social Influencing is far superior because he does this stuff without having any audience to start with. And the people he influences are far harder to manipulate than humans.
 
Phoenks said:
It doesn't debunk anything, Random. You're refusing to acknowledge the fact that none of these people would care at all if he wasn't on the big screen in the first place. He only has that much influence (GOOD OR BAD) because HE IS FAMOUS. Them getting boos or whatever does not matter...

Kazuma on the other hand, through sheer charisma, can accomplish the same thing without these people even knowing who he is.

And just to completely destroy this argument even further, Kazuma can manipulate people who are far harder to manipulate than humans.

Here are some examples.
Click to expand...
sigh

This shit is honestly getting annoying.

Just because you're famous, that doesn't mean you can manipulate thousands-millions of people across a month without saying a word. Why can't you get this across your head?

The Rock: Arguably the most famous person in the WWE. One of, if not, the most charismatic wrestler to ever live. He himself got boo'd by the crowd before.

John Cena: A guy who the crowd is supposed to like, was boo'd by them on numerous occasions.

The crowd didn't give two ***** that they were famous. They still boo'd them. What is so hard to understand about that???

This argument is so ******* dumb.
 
Could we maybe agree to restrict chains from here on out? Kazuma still has a wide variety of abilities, but Class M LS feels a tad excessive

If you don’t wanna budge that’s fine too, but preferably it makes the tournament more fun when options like that aren’t a factor
 
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