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Goodnight, when?Anyway, i need to go to sleep, but iirc Ultima is planning to revise Tier 2 anyway
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Goodnight, when?Anyway, i need to go to sleep, but iirc Ultima is planning to revise Tier 2 anyway
In terms of structure, I agree that being bigger than high 3a structure would means it's of Aleph 1 size but it wouldn't be low 2c going with our tiering system that states that "All of past, present and future" need to be oliberated and reasoning behind it given by Ultima was that I don't like idea of having knife and cutting the bread or something, was quite unsatisfactory but fine.However, in my view, taking this at face value is problematic because if we decide that being bigger than a High 3-A structure is Low 2-C by default, for instance, then that would also imply that being stronger than a High 3-A character is Low 2-C by default.
Then it makes sense but just left with a question, would it be affecting that 5d space or just it's having a 5d range? Because if the later then it wouldn't be AP.I don't know if how we handled it changed with Ultima's Tiering Revision, but in the past multiverse level was treated as extremely low 5D, for destroying 3+1D spacetimes over some unquantified distance across an additional axis which spans up the multiverse.
Aaahh, ummm, if I am not getting it wrong, is it that when distances between things taken into account while scaling to that particular tier? Like destroying two galaxies that stick together (no gap) would be different than destroying two galaxies with the default distance they have...In that sense, an infinite timeline, being just 4D, is still infinitely smaller than low-end multiverse level. (it's kinda similar to how Solar System level is higher than the GBE of the sun and all planets combined in that respect)
and it would be low 1c to be even be capable of affecting 5d structureCharacters who can affect, create and/or destroy the entirety of spaces whose size corresponds to one to two higher levels of infinity greater than a standard universal model (Low 2-C structures, in plain English.) In terms of "dimensional" scale, this can be equated to 5 and 6-dimensional real coordinate spaces (R ^ 5 to R ^ 6)
Would be affecting 5D space.Then it makes sense but just left with a question, would it be affecting that 5d space or just it's having a 5d range? Because if the later then it wouldn't be AP.
Yeah, basically. Which is actually one argument one can make as to why stuff like destroying 8 timelines fused into 1 wouldn't be multiversal.Aaahh, ummm, if I am not getting it wrong, is it that when distances between things taken into account while scaling to that particular tier? Like destroying two galaxies that stick together (no gap) would be different than destroying two galaxies with the default distance they have...
Then it's fineWould be affecting 5D space.
Yeah, basically. Which is actually one argument one can make as to why stuff like destroying 8 timelines fused into 1 wouldn't be multiversal.
I mean, being bigger in size =/= being stronger than a character in the existential sense. They'd just be a stronger High 3-A character. Not sure where the "Stronger than High 3-A = Low 2-C" logic came from.However, in my view, taking this at face value is problematic because if we decide that being bigger than a High 3-A structure is Low 2-C by default, for instance, then that would also imply that being stronger than a High 3-A character is Low 2-C by default.
Infinite multiverse would still be 5D on an insignificant scale (you can cram infinite 3+1D timelines into an arbitrarily, but not infinitely, small 5D volume). Meanwhile Low 1-C starts at 5D power of significant magnitude.The explanation given by donttalkdt can satisfy the needs required for 2a to be greater than infinite sized low 2c, but won't it cause a no boundaries between Low 1c and 2a?
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We should remove 5d from Low 1c then after all what's the point of having same thing in 2different tiers that vary greatly in what they mean.
But if I am understanding it right that tier 2 division is based of the additional dimensional axis which spans the multiverse that would mean we have Tier 2c, Tier 2B, Tier 2a all in that insignificant 5d structure which I suppose logical to say that it's Limit tends to 0, but then division among them itself will be very vague and given that limits tends to 0 is still not 0 but has some values that are insignificant, it's still one lvl higher infinity than low 2c structure that fullfills the requirements demanded for Low 1c.Infinite multiverse would still be 5D on an insignificant scale (you can cram infinite 3+1D timelines into an arbitrarily, but not infinitely, small 5D volume). Meanwhile Low 1-C starts at 5D power of significant magnitude.
Yes, but you should not misunderstand what DT said. What they meant is that you can fit an infinite number of 3+1D timelines inside a 5D hypervolume that is not infinitely small, but merely insignificant. 2-A also takes into account the distance between space-time continuums.However small 5D volume still > 4D no???
Not just that but it'll be any 5d volume regardless of how insignificant they must be, it'll be always greater than uncountable infinite numbers of 4d structures.However small 5D volume still > 4D no???
Wait a second, even if it is insignificant, this is still 5D. What?Infinite multiverse would still be 5D on an insignificant scale (you can cram infinite 3+1D timelines into an arbitrarily, but not infinitely, small 5D volume). Meanwhile Low 1-C starts at 5D power of significant magnitude.
So there is a significant difference.
The problem is as per wiki definition, it is not. As per wiki definition any 5d space is qualified for tier 1c.AFAIK, above baseline 2A is finite 5D
And Low 1-C is infinite 5D
But it is still 5D. This is the main purpose of the thread. 5D is still > 4D in any aspect, and it can't be ignored. Now, after I understand what OP is purposing, this seems to need to be discussed.AFAIK, above baseline 2A is finite 5D
And Low 1-C is infinite 5D
Could you summarize what the OP is trying to say for those not understanding lolBut it is still 5D. This is the main purpose of the thread. 5D is still > 4D in any aspect, and it can't be ignored. Now, after I understand what OP is purposing, this seems to need to be discussed.
That would take another few pages got filled up, in short for all, op is proposing. Infinite timeline along time axis = 2a but we have it under tier 2c, and so far there is no logical explanation that separating them. That's all. For everyone. Please comment any further if you have understood the OP and have knowledge of tier 2 and transfinite numbers as it will cause thread got messed up.Could you summarize what the OP is trying to say for those not understanding lol
Thank you
If you look above to kingpin explaination, you'll see that he has also agreed and has explained the op but has suggested his concern as to why he don't like this idea, not that it is wrong and I and klol have suggested that why that concern doesn't affect the op at all, so op is right unless one is to include insignificant 5d structure but that would cause vaguely no difference in all of tier 2 divisions except of low 2c as all of them are present in the insignificant 5d axis and will also cause removal 5d structure from low 1c.2-A also takes into account the distance between space-time continuums. On another side, Infinite timeline along the time axis = 2A but is also treated as under tier 2-C (which is actually wrong since the Yhwach 2-A range got upgraded, for this reason, I don't from where you get this source from)
This should be put into the OP as it's a good summary for staff to see.Alright. The main sole of this thread is that:
Above baseline 2A = finite 5D which is still bigger than 4D volume in any prospect. But low 1-C is only infinite 5D. There is a tier missing in between.
In Wiki standards, every 5D volume/space (even if it is infinite or not) will be low 1-C. But finite 5D is treated as lower than 2-tier, which is what we are discoursing right now. You can fit an infinite number of 3+1D timelines inside a 5D hypervolume that is not infinitely small, but merely insignificant. 2-A also takes into account the distance between space-time continuums. On another side, Infinite timeline along the time axis = 2A but is also treated as under tier 2-C (which is actually wrong since the Yhwach 2-A range got upgraded, for this reason, I don't from where you get this source from)
Not a staff member, but that is technically 5D being Low 1C. Also that was removed later on since I can not see this as being 2A as that we used to have High 2A in the old tiering system before the Tiering System revision threads landedI don't know if how we handled it changed with Ultima's Tiering Revision, but in the past multiverse level was treated as extremely low 5D, for destroying 3+1D spacetimes over some unquantified distance across an additional axis which spans up the multiverse.
In that sense, an infinite timeline, being just 4D, is still infinitely smaller than low-end multiverse level. (it's kinda similar to how Solar System level is higher than the GBE of the sun and all planets combined in that respect)
To that comes that all (or all the most popular) physical theories regarding the future development of the universe predict no end to time. So our default spacetime continuum has infinite future anyway.
Thanx for this and oh man going with this the only difference between destroying infinite timeline and 2a sized timeline is that the later one is alinged in a 5d axis and so 5d range is needed.Also here is the link to the old Tiering system in question:
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Tiering System
The following is a comprehensive overview of the hierarchical system which this wiki utilizes in order to properly categorize and index fictional characters, entities, and objects based on the scale of their feats, and the varying scopes which they can affect or create/destroy. However, it...vsbattles.fandom.com
In that same article you linked, it is mentioned to being a theory.To all aside timeline shouldn't be taken infinite by default as there is something like big crunch which happens because of decay of dark energy over time causes universe to callapse, an opposite of cosmic inflation which spans the universe in all directions as shown in this article .
A simple verse that follows this rule is gurren lagann where it was mentioned that spiral force/ dark energy will cause the universe to it's end. And it's not the only one and so should have to be specified.
Thanx for this and oh man going with this the only difference between destroying infinite timeline and 2a sized timeline is that the later one is alinged in a 5d axis and so 5d range is needed.
But high 2a is clear cut low 1c of today.
Don't get me wrong but I am feeling like we should merge 2a and 2c into one as differing them is quite shaking my brain at this point.
But finite 5D is still 5D, regardless if it is a significant difference or not. Why it should be counted not as low 1-C, it does not belong to 2-A either. Either we need a new tier or new explanation for this.In that same article you linked, it is mentioned to being a theory.
“
Nothing about this theory is controversial or implausible, Gary Hinshaw, a professor of physics and astronomy at the University of British Columbia who was not involved in the study, told Live Science. However, because the model hinges on past observations of expansion alone — and because the present nature of dark energy in the universe is such a mystery — the predictions in this paper are currently impossible to test. For now, they can only remain theories.”
I think this just overthinking the matter. The most simple thing is that it is still 4D, the only significant differences is the infinite number of timelines, worlds (parallel worlds), universes, and so on while 2C is simply 4D finite number of universes/timelines/worlds as well as other related cosmological jargon.
It still counts as Low 1C as far as I am aware. DonTalk was remembering the old tiering system which was High 2A.But finite 5D is still 5D, regardless if it is a significant difference or not. Why it should be counted not as low 1-C, it does not belong to 2-A either. Either we need a new tier or new explanation for this.
Even if these are theories but so most astronomical or cosmological things are, multiverse, higher dimensions, and popular verse's like gurren lagann seems to falls under this, so I am in support of not having infinite timeline as by default case.Nothing about this theory is controversial or implausible, Gary Hinshaw, a professor of physics and astronomy at the University of British Columbia who was not involved in the study, told Live Science. However, because the model hinges on past observations of expansion alone — and because the present nature of dark energy in the universe is such a mystery — the predictions in this paper are currently impossible to test. For now, they can only remain theories.”
The problem here is about volumes of such 4d spaces, given that infinite sized single timeline along time axis can have same volume as infinite number of finite timelines.I think this just overthinking the matter. The most simple thing is that it is still 4D, the only significant differences is the infinite number of timelines, worlds (parallel worlds), universes, and so on while 2C is simply 4D finite number of universes/timelines/worlds as well as other related cosmological jargon
After looking at old tiering system I am sure dt was talking about high 2a from old tiering, so 2a is not 5d, not at any scale.But finite 5D is still 5D, regardless if it is a significant difference or not. Why it should be counted not as low 1-C, it does not belong to 2-A either. Either we need a new tier or new explanation for this.
Alright.After looking at old tiering system I am sure dt was talking about high 2a from old tiering, so 2a is not 5d, not at any scale.