Tier 2 Smash Bros. Pages

[Marco_Shark]

Less Chaotic edition.


Please argue if you are up for it or against it without really causing as much chaos as the last thread.

Remember all characters will have their smash moveset, and no other skills.

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

No. Just no.

Lets not revive this please. Someone close this and keep it buried.

 

[Marco_Shark]

Why, would you want to kill discussion?


If there a problem with hearing someone else´s tought on a matter?

 

[The_2nd_Existential_Seed]

It was closed for a reason Marco.

 

[Marco_Shark]

What was the reason, again?

 

[Assaltwaffle]

I would like to know the reason as well.

 

[Marco_Shark]

Indeed, mostly because they silenced me and Amexim, hell they didnt reply to any of our pro-smash pages arguments.

 

[Marco_Shark]

bump

 

[Assaltwaffle]

Ok I get that you want this answered but don't bump after literally less than an hour.

 

[Newendigo]

From what I get from the previous thread, some people were disagree because supposedly, we would allow to make a high amount of "superfluos" profile for the same characters, with almost the same statistics, but higher stats (I don't know, the thread is large).

I'm most likely neutral about it...

 

[Marco_Shark]

They ignore that some characters have different skills than their canonical counterparts, that they are not even human and that they have a different backstory.


Not to mention, that they dont realize that if they dont want more profiles around, we could just add a "Smash Bros." form like Wii Fit Trainer and Captain Falcon.


And they derrailed the hell out of the thread because of manga goku.

 

[Marco_Shark]

bump

 

[Theglassman12]

Did you not read what Assault said? He said to not bump after less than an hour.

 

[Marco_Shark]

Alright.

 

[LephyrTheRevanchist]

After reading the other thread, here is my opinion. Disagree with profiles (except Ice Climbers, Duck Hunt, G&W, R.O.B and Wii-Fit Trainer), agree with statistics. That is all.

 

[Marco_Shark]

So every existin character profile should have their Low 2-C form, then?

 

[Eficiente]

I personally agree with Lephyr.

 

[Niarobi_(Formerly_Hadou)]

I also agree with Lephyr.

 

[Dark649]

So every existin character profile should have their Low 2-C form, then?

No Low 2-C, Azathoth implied me that rating is not allowed for the characters and he will revert the edits if it happens again, he will also close new pages if made.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

We just went over this; this thread should be closed.

 

[ArbitraryNumbers]

I honestly don't see why we shouldn't have them either. Marco and Amexim have both made valid arguments that seem to hold water, and the latest ones they posted were all ignored.

There are plenty of key differences in abilities, feats, backstories, and even classification (the Smash characters are toys that represent their respective characters, not the characters themselves).

Smash Ness knows PK Thunder and PK Fire. Smash Lucas knows Thunder, Freeze, and Fire. Neither of these characters possessed these abilities in their canon games.

Smash Kirby can now use Final Cutter, Hammer, and Stone, all in base. Smash Mario and Luigi can both use fireballs without actually having the fireball powerup. Mario can use the cape.

This isn't even counting the ones that barely characters at all prior to Smash, like Mr. Game and Watch or R.O.B., or Final Smashes (tell me, where did Luigi's Negative Zone, Link's Triforce Slash, and Meta Knight's Galaxia Cape come from, exactly?). And on top of that, the Smash Characters all have their own limited arsenals that merely reference that of their canonical ones.

Low 2-C is frequent and it's consistent, and there are plenty of differences between Smash Bros. characters and their canonical counterparts. The more you guys ignore the questions posed, the more your stance loses credibility. The opposing arguments are starting to come across as a big "I don't want Low 2-C Smash profiles because I'm just not comfortable". I hate making that accusation, but that's what all of this is coming across as.

 

[Yobo_Blue]

I honestly don't see why we shouldn't have them either. Marco and Amexim have both made valid arguments that seem to hold water, and none of them were given a proper response other than a straight up "no".

^This

 

[ArbitraryNumbers]

Deepest apologies, but I can't just let this thread be closed when there are plenty of points to be addressed. This only further proves my point that the points raised by Amexim and Marco are being ignored.

The Smash characters are completely different from other cases in the past; they aren't carbon copies of the same character with a higher/different ranking; canonically, they are merely sentient trophies/toys that represent their respective characters, with limited movesets that merely reference said characters and the original franchises they come from.

 

[Niarobi_(Formerly_Hadou)]

Bump.

 

[Theglassman12]

Why are you bumping? It's not even a day since the last post.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

But still, Azathoth already explained why and we just went over it. Anyway, some of the staff members are feeling overworked; as much as I want to see more Tier 2 ratings, we have enough from the god tiers. Additionally, most of the characters never even remotely demonstrate such power in competitive combat; which Smash Bros in general is mostly about competitive multiplayer rather than power scaling massive feats.

Anyway, I really don't want the staff feeling overworked on things that have been discussed repeatedly and turn out to be repetitive. This might even be Discussion rule worthy if this keeps up.

 

[Assaltwaffle]

We just had the issue of "staff is tired" brought up full-force earlier. We can't shrug this off because we just don't like it; if there is a valid argument we have plenty of admins that can help out.

The first thread got chaotic and closed at a whim, it seems. We need to hear this out without closing for an invalid reason.

 

[PaChi2]

We just had the issue of "staff is tired" brought up full-force earlier. We can't shrug this off because we just don't like it; if there is a valid argument we have plenty of admins that can help out.
The first thread got chaotic and closed at a whim, it seems. We need to hear this out without closing for an invalid reason.

You realize that if this is accept then we would be accepting every single noncanon/crossover right? Those profiles are unnecessary and redundant. As it was explained in the other thread. And dont say that "Smash" is canon to itself because we dont accept plenty of other verses like Xenoverse counterparts or Marver vs Capcom or J-Stars. If you want Smash to get accepted, the thread shouldnt be "Tier 2 smash" but "crossover profiles in general". No exceptions.

 

[Dark649]

And Marvel vs Street Fighter, Killer Instinct Guests or Tekken 7 Geese and Noctis as well.

 

[Assaltwaffle]

I personally see it as completely different, but OK, sure. If you think that it's just a crossover series I am fine with not doing this.

 

[Dark649]

The presence of Sonic, Snake, Pac-Man, Cloud, Ryu, Megaman, Bayonetta and etc. imply it's a crossover.

 

[PaChi2]

I personally see it as completely different, but OK, sure. If you think that it's just a crossover series I am fine with not doing this.

Only smash bros brawl has a story.

The rest of the games are just arcade/versus. I mean, we have Solid snake wrestling with Ganondorf. And ganondorf being affected by non.holy things.

 

[Assaltwaffle]

Ok, I can see that then. Do other crossovers have such a strictly different canon? If they do then I guess Smash is no different.

 

[ArbitraryNumbers]

But still, Azathoth already explained why and we just went over it. Anyway, some of the staff members are feeling overworked; as much as I want to see more Tier 2 ratings, we have enough from the god tiers. Additionally, most of the characters never even remotely demonstrate such power in competitive combat; which Smash Bros in general is mostly about competitive multiplayer rather than power scaling massive feats.
Anyway, I really don't want the staff feeling overworked on things that have been discussed repeatedly and turn out to be repetitive. This might even be Discussion rule worthy if this keeps up.

"Azathoth already explained":

With all due respect to Azathoth, his explanation was "they're just carbon copies of the same character with a higher tier", which isn't true; Smash bros. characters are trophies representing their canon counterparts with much more limited arsenals that merely reference their origins. They're completely different in terms of lore, classification, and abilities. It's not the same as inserting Goku into another story where higher characters exist.

His explanations were refuted and the rebuttals were never given a proper response other than "No, because Azzy said so". That's what is called Appeal to Authority.

"Some of the staff members are feeling overworked":

This doesn't have to be a staff discussion. If it's that big of an issue we can simply have the regular members and the non-admin staff contribute to the discussion, so far as they provide legitimate input other than "no, because I said so".

"We have enough from the god tiers":

This isn't a reason to deny any rankings. The point of debate is not to come to a conclusion that is satisfying or comfortable, but one that is sound and valid. That's like me saying I think the 6-B statement of "pacifying an entire ocean" in Middens is enough, and denying all of the 4-B and High 3-A feats because I like 6-B more.

"Most of the characters never demonstrate such power in competitive combat; which Smash Bros in general is mostly about competitive multiplayer rather than power scaling massive feats":

The Low 2-C feats use the same logic and reasoning as our current 7-B feats; The Creation Trio feats all come from Poke Balls and Stages, much like our current feats involving Entei and the Reset Bombs.

At this point there's zero reason to deny these feats other than "I can't fathom a Low 2-C Mr. Game and Watch".

The concept of Smash Bros. profiles for already existing characters doesn't conflict with any rules. Threatening to shut this topic down isn't going to accomplish anything but denying a verse some rankings that are, as it stands, much more consistent and solid than our current ones.

 

[PaChi2]

I highlighted this.

Let's finish this quick.

 

[Promestein]

Personally, I think it's unnecessary to fill our wiki with the more limited and stronger versions of Smash characters.

 

[ArbitraryNumbers]

I can understand that.

But I at least think the ones that currently have Smash keys/profiles should get the upgrade.

 

[Megamangohan]

My thoughts

64 Pikachu has Skull Bash, wihch DEFINITLY makes him different from any other Pikachu

 

[Assaltwaffle]

I'll stay out of further discussion. I'm letting my bias towards Smash get the better of me.

 

[Saikou_The_Lewd_King]

Are we still debating whether or not everyone is Low 2-C or if anyone should get a Smash profile, at all?

For the latter, I'd say it depends on the character. Characters who get more abilities than their canon counterpart (Due to their canon counterpart lacking combat feats), such as Wii-Fit Trainer, G&W or Ice Climbers should be fine. But say, making a Kirby profile just to have Low 2-C Kirby doesn't seem necessary.

Also side note, but no matter what happens, I think that G&W should keep his 9-A key. No idea why that was removed.