-
This forum is strictly intended to be used by members of the VS Battles wiki. Please only register if you have an autoconfirmed account there, as otherwise your registration will be rejected. If you have already registered once, do not do so again, and contact Antvasima if you encounter any problems.
For instructions regarding the exact procedure to sign up to this forum, please click here. -
We need Patreon donations for this forum to have all of its running costs financially secured.
Community members who help us out will receive badges that give them several different benefits, including the removal of all advertisements in this forum, but donations from non-members are also extremely appreciated.
Please click here for further information, or here to directly visit our Patreon donations page. -
Please click here for information about a large petition to help children in need.
Tier 2 Smash Bros. Pages
- Thread starter Marco_Shark
- Start date
- Status
- 302
- 21
- 3,706
- 316
Game and Watch was only a genre before Smash Bros. He was a bunch of characters in different games of the genre that did different task, and they were composited. Literally basically every Game and Watch character besides some obvious ones that became famous besides Mario, Donkey Kong, and Link. They even put the Octopus and the thing that fought the Octopus into this composited character.
Not only these things, but they further added Mr. Game and Watch to the lore that was in Smash Bros, such as making him made out of the same primordial matter of the Shadow Bugs. Melee is the first game that Mr. Game and Watch appears in as an actual character, and he has never been in any other game that isn't a Smash Bros game in his full composite glory.
I don't think this thread should be closed until both Azzy and Cal get a say in this, seeing as Cal is the one who made the thread from yesterday and Azzy is the main one you guys keep appealing authority to.
My stance is that Mr. Game and Watch, Ice Climbers, Captain Falcon, and several other characters that were basically made famous from Smash Bros and got their actual movesets from Smash Bros should keep their pages. I also fully support the Low 2-C ratings as they are far more consistent than the 7-B ones. Smash Kirby and Smash Entei have 7-B feats? Okay. Does that disregard that Smash Creation Trio have Low 2-C trophy statements attached to their Smash lore? Or that Smash Arceus is far above them? Every character in the game is capable of taking hits from Smash Arceus and the Smash Creation Trio. Every character in the game is capable of surviving the destruction of the Subspace Emissary. Everyone in Smash is capable of defeating Master Hand, who has a Low 2-C feat, and Crazy Hand, who is his equal, and Giga Bowser, who is chronologically in-game implied to be comparable to them. Event 51 has Ganondorf, Mewtwo, and Giga Bowser implied to being superior to Master Hand and Crazy Hand. Tabuu is also defeated by the help of a bunch of Smash characters. And if it helps, Master Hand's tier is further solidified that he plays with all of the trophies as toys, several which have Low 2-C feats in their trophy descriptions. I think Low 2-C is a far more consistent rating.
I don't think Smash profiles should be made for every character, though, just the ones I mentioned about that don't have many combat feats in their respective primary canons and that were basically made famous or given a movesets from Smash.
Not only these things, but they further added Mr. Game and Watch to the lore that was in Smash Bros, such as making him made out of the same primordial matter of the Shadow Bugs. Melee is the first game that Mr. Game and Watch appears in as an actual character, and he has never been in any other game that isn't a Smash Bros game in his full composite glory.
I don't think this thread should be closed until both Azzy and Cal get a say in this, seeing as Cal is the one who made the thread from yesterday and Azzy is the main one you guys keep appealing authority to.
My stance is that Mr. Game and Watch, Ice Climbers, Captain Falcon, and several other characters that were basically made famous from Smash Bros and got their actual movesets from Smash Bros should keep their pages. I also fully support the Low 2-C ratings as they are far more consistent than the 7-B ones. Smash Kirby and Smash Entei have 7-B feats? Okay. Does that disregard that Smash Creation Trio have Low 2-C trophy statements attached to their Smash lore? Or that Smash Arceus is far above them? Every character in the game is capable of taking hits from Smash Arceus and the Smash Creation Trio. Every character in the game is capable of surviving the destruction of the Subspace Emissary. Everyone in Smash is capable of defeating Master Hand, who has a Low 2-C feat, and Crazy Hand, who is his equal, and Giga Bowser, who is chronologically in-game implied to be comparable to them. Event 51 has Ganondorf, Mewtwo, and Giga Bowser implied to being superior to Master Hand and Crazy Hand. Tabuu is also defeated by the help of a bunch of Smash characters. And if it helps, Master Hand's tier is further solidified that he plays with all of the trophies as toys, several which have Low 2-C feats in their trophy descriptions. I think Low 2-C is a far more consistent rating.
I don't think Smash profiles should be made for every character, though, just the ones I mentioned about that don't have many combat feats in their respective primary canons and that were basically made famous or given a movesets from Smash.
- 312
- 43
@TheHadou
And all of that is so easily explainable when we all remind ourselves that this is a cross-over of a dozen franchises with no higher goal then making a cross-over in the first place. There really is absolutely nothing controversial about a 7-B taking hits from a low 2-C or anybody else under these circumstances.
With that said it's getting late here so I won't be responding any further.
And all of that is so easily explainable when we all remind ourselves that this is a cross-over of a dozen franchises with no higher goal then making a cross-over in the first place. There really is absolutely nothing controversial about a 7-B taking hits from a low 2-C or anybody else under these circumstances.
With that said it's getting late here so I won't be responding any further.
- 32,359
- 20,298
close this
- 4,652
- 1,328
How about just Mr. Game and Watch and the likes. Can we agree on that?
- 12,239
- 1,112
Smash is different enough, different statistics, skills and powers, not litterally the exact fighter, then add subspace.
- 15,614
- 7,054
Never at any point did I say "delete everything relating to Smash". I was even in favor of keeping characters who essentially have nothing else outside of Smash (Wii Fit Trainer, Game & Watch, etc.).
Kirby's page still exists because, as AN pointed out, other unique Smash characters are scaled from things he's done.
I'll specifically address the Tier 2 stuff, in a separate comment.
Kirby's page still exists because, as AN pointed out, other unique Smash characters are scaled from things he's done.
I'll specifically address the Tier 2 stuff, in a separate comment.
- 4,652
- 1,328
Actually...Azathoth the Abyssal Idiot said:
Originally he was 8-C to Low 7-B due to defeating various giant bosses in the subspace emissary, and his Down B, which moved faster than lightning, weighed 100 tons, generating Low 7-B energy. Everything else can be applied to all the other characters.
- 4,652
- 1,328
GAW is already restored.PaChi2 said:
- 539
- 10
- Thread starter
- #139
There are multiple changes between the canon version of smash characters and their smash forms.
In my mind, all 53 characters should have a smash page
In my mind, all 53 characters should have a smash page
- 15,614
- 7,054
Onto the topic of, "Should every Smash fighter be Low 2-C?".
Answer: No. That's ludicrous.
The main reason for this is everyone and their mother was being scaled to Master Hand, Crazy Hand, and Tabuu. However, if anyone actually remembers from the clusterfuck of the last thread, I brought up "scaling issues", which was pretty much just brushed off. Probably my fault for not elaborating on it, so let me make it more clear.
Being non-canon does not suddenly mean that outliers don't exist or that things can be nonsensical.
Master Hand is Low 2-C for creating the Smash universe. We even acknowledge that all the fighters within are treated as "toys" to him. Yet we're going to scale them to him because they can fight him at the end of arcade mode? As I pointed out before, this not only makes no sense using the game's internal logic, but it's not even a "canon" event within the "story" of the game; partially because, with the exception of Brawl, there isn't one.
Speaking of Brawl, let's bring up someone else that everyone seemed to think it was okay to scale to; Tabuu. Tabuu makes absolute fodder out of Master Hand, hence his rating. He's also shown to be perfectly capable of taking out every fighter who opposes him in one shot. Tabuu scaling to Master Hand is fine. The issue comes from wanting to scale literally everyone to Tabuu. Now, not only is Master Hand not anything special, but suddenly, nameless fodder he created is on the same level as he is, all because they can cause trouble for random fighters. Do you see what these "scaling issues" I mentioned earlier are? You can't simply ignore these because a game isn't canon, as even the game has its own internal logic and scaling.
As a side note, another supporting feat brought up for Low 2-C everyone was "taking hits from the Creation Trio, who have universal feats in their trophies". This isn't something that happens in any sort of story mode or even random boss fight. It's assuming that because Palkia and Dialga are stage hazards in one level, everyone can take hits from them and scale to them. This should not even be used as supporting evidence, even if everyone = Master Hand was already widely accepted.
Answer: No. That's ludicrous.
The main reason for this is everyone and their mother was being scaled to Master Hand, Crazy Hand, and Tabuu. However, if anyone actually remembers from the clusterfuck of the last thread, I brought up "scaling issues", which was pretty much just brushed off. Probably my fault for not elaborating on it, so let me make it more clear.
Being non-canon does not suddenly mean that outliers don't exist or that things can be nonsensical.
Master Hand is Low 2-C for creating the Smash universe. We even acknowledge that all the fighters within are treated as "toys" to him. Yet we're going to scale them to him because they can fight him at the end of arcade mode? As I pointed out before, this not only makes no sense using the game's internal logic, but it's not even a "canon" event within the "story" of the game; partially because, with the exception of Brawl, there isn't one.
Speaking of Brawl, let's bring up someone else that everyone seemed to think it was okay to scale to; Tabuu. Tabuu makes absolute fodder out of Master Hand, hence his rating. He's also shown to be perfectly capable of taking out every fighter who opposes him in one shot. Tabuu scaling to Master Hand is fine. The issue comes from wanting to scale literally everyone to Tabuu. Now, not only is Master Hand not anything special, but suddenly, nameless fodder he created is on the same level as he is, all because they can cause trouble for random fighters. Do you see what these "scaling issues" I mentioned earlier are? You can't simply ignore these because a game isn't canon, as even the game has its own internal logic and scaling.
As a side note, another supporting feat brought up for Low 2-C everyone was "taking hits from the Creation Trio, who have universal feats in their trophies". This isn't something that happens in any sort of story mode or even random boss fight. It's assuming that because Palkia and Dialga are stage hazards in one level, everyone can take hits from them and scale to them. This should not even be used as supporting evidence, even if everyone = Master Hand was already widely accepted.
- 4,652
- 1,328
Okay then. So now Low 2-C. For the same reason we don't scale Freddy to Animdude in FNAF World.
However, the CT feats use the same reasoning as our current 7-B ones.
However, the CT feats use the same reasoning as our current 7-B ones.
- 14,391
- 5,220
Ok, I guess.
- 32,359
- 20,298
Copying for profit.Matthew Schroeder said:
- 15,614
- 7,054
@AN
Doesn't Kirby have a Low 7-B feat that would actually scale to everyone?
Doesn't Kirby have a Low 7-B feat that would actually scale to everyone?
- 32,359
- 20,298
Isn't Master Hand and Tabuu supposed to like, represent a real person playing with toys. Which are what the Smash characters are?
- 4,652
- 1,328
Well if the Down B feat doesn't scale to anyone, then I don't know what would.Azathoth the Abyssal Idiot said:
The whole purpose is that these characters fight each other. I think they should at least be able to scale in that regard.
- 15,614
- 7,054
@AN
I would assume "random attack of generic fighter who has been there since the beginning" is more likely to scale to everyone than "literally God".
I would assume "random attack of generic fighter who has been there since the beginning" is more likely to scale to everyone than "literally God".
- 4,652
- 1,328
I can agree with that too.
I brought up the question of Master Hand being the puppeteer in the previous thread/maybe in the chat. One argument was that a toy is still capable of hurting the child who plays with it, much like how throwing an amiibo at yourself would hurt or something.
I brought up the question of Master Hand being the puppeteer in the previous thread/maybe in the chat. One argument was that a toy is still capable of hurting the child who plays with it, much like how throwing an amiibo at yourself would hurt or something.
- 748
- 38
Seeing as this got pretty chaotic, perhaps there should be a Discussion Rule against scaling Smash characters to to Master Hand/Tabuu?
Just a suggestion.
Just a suggestion.
- 15,614
- 7,054
I'm actually choking.ArbitraryNumbers said:
- 4,652
- 1,328
Yes. I don't want anything to do with Smash Bros. discussion on this wiki anymore.Random1201 said:
- 4,652
- 1,328
Has this been concluded? If so, I'm willing to make the edits.
Low 7-B, right?
Low 7-B, right?
- 15,614
- 7,054
Yeah. Whatever Kirby's Down-B is.
- 4,652
- 1,328
Okay. I'll close this and get to that.
- Status
