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Can I ask why Luminous Being is considered Tier 0? Because as far as I can see in the profile (which I guess is very old), there is no demonstration of Monad that qualify it at all.The Luminous Being (Dungeons and Dragons)
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Can I ask why Luminous Being is considered Tier 0? Because as far as I can see in the profile (which I guess is very old), there is no demonstration of Monad that qualify it at all.The Luminous Being (Dungeons and Dragons)
Just prompting in a positive way, but the "characters" on that list are simply my educated guesses, and the official list will likely vary differently from mine. As for your comment, you're most likely right, as this is most likely High-1A+. Then again, the profile is old, and likely needs changes, possibly even a revisionCan I ask why Luminous Being is considered Tier 0? Because as far as I can see in the profile (which I guess is very old), there is no demonstration of Monad that qualify it at all.
I see.Just prompting in a positive way, but the "characters" on that list are simply my educated guesses, and the official list will likely vary differently from mine. As for your comment, you're most likely right, as this is most likely High-1A+. Then again, the profile is old, and likely needs changes, possibly even a revision
Krub I here KronosKub mut
DnD is outdatedJust prompting in a positive way, but the "characters" on that list are simply my educated guesses, and the official list will likely vary differently from mine. As for your comment, you're most likely right, as this is most likely High-1A+. Then again, the profile is old, and likely needs changes, possibly even a revision
Since the new requirements are in short
A tier 0 cannot undergo any form of change whatsoever
There can only be one tier 0 character from a verse
A tier 0 cannot be surpassed or have peers of similar equivalency
A tier 0 can't have parts
A tier 0 can't be part of a hierarchy
A character can't "become" tier 0
There can't be a character that has tier 0 power, but some nature distinct from that
Then some of the ones I can name off the top of my head are
Self Reference-ENGINE (Self Reference-ENGINE)
The Dharmakaya (Journey To The West)
The Star Maker (Star Maker)
Essential Divinity (World Of Darkness)
The Clear Light (Twin Peaks)
The White Light (Transrealist)
The Luminous Being (Dungeons and Dragons)
The One (The Divine Comedy)
God (Unsong)
The Supreme Archetype (Cthulhu Mythos)
Possibly The Light (Dark Siders)
Possibly The One (Transformers)
Possibly Gan (The Dark Tower)
Possibly Mana-Yood-Sushai (Dunsanyverse)
Possibly Eru Illuvatar (Lord Of The Rings)
Possibly The Amaranth (The Elder Scrolls)
Possibly The Magician (Seekers Into The Mystery)
Isn't the entire point of tier 0, to literally lack quality, instead of just trascending it?Will be High 1-A+ in first key and the second key will be removed since it is just a lack of qualities entirely, rather than transcendence of qualities.
Possibly Eru Illuvatar (Lord Of The Rings)This sounds like 1-A, rather than 0.
Those are pretty outdated, to the point that Transformers needs an entire verse cleanup, so new scans making them tier 0 isn't entirely out of the questionPossibly The One (Transformers)Based on current profile it doesn't sound like nearly enough evidence for Tier 0.
Literal lack of any quality would just be nothingness. Which is what we see with SRE since its "true state" is just the end of the book. Like it literally just isn't anything anymore.Isn't the entire point of tier 0, to literally lack quality, instead of just trascending it?
Literal lack of any quality would just be nothingness. Which is what we see with SRE since its "true state" is just the end of the book. Like it literally just isn't anything anymore.
While something that transcends qualities is something, but something that quality can't describe, contain, or differentiate. Thus it is "nonexistent" but it is in a different way entirely. More like it transcends existence.
If SRE's true state was tiered, it would pretty much be the opposite of Tier 0.
I am okay with thisSRE is so broken the he overflows the tier list, and becomes the weakest dude
Uh, the Engine's 2nd key isn't just "lacking of quality", it is beyond it's already "nonexistent" shell in comparison to the entire verse (which was just one of all possible character strings), the shell's description of "not existing" doesn't even apply to the idea of the actual Engine straight up killing itself/not existing in the story anymore. This is why it uses non or not every time it mentions it's own existence, and this is exactly why it lacks knowledge of it's creators (the actual Engine), or why the GCOK or HGCOK wan't to seek and destroy it.MY predictions....
Self Reference-ENGINE (Self Reference-ENGINE)Will be High 1-A+ in first key and the second key will be removed since it is just a lack of qualities entirely, rather than transcendence of qualities.
These ones are like blatantly tier 0 btw. Eru's profile just doesn't give it any justice.MY predictions....
Possibly Eru Illuvatar (Lord Of The Rings)This sounds like 1-A, rather than 0.
Possibly The Amaranth (The Elder Scrolls) IDK
Possibly The Magician (Seekers Into The Mystery) IDK
I kauy now na hee dokKrub I here Kronos
if you mean the axiom/great reason then probablyI am honestly super sure that the Great Will (Megami Tensei) could reach Tier 0.
I nobody believes it, I can prove it.
Yeahif you mean the axiom/great reason then probably
I have no doubt it would be the followingI also wonder which characters will get High-1A+
I'd assume The Ultimate Gods (verse should just be reconstructed at this point), Bondye, GOTM would be contenders.
None of these are getting high 1-A+. Dunno about the leviathan though or WoD.I have no doubt it would be the following
Comic Entities from Marvel
The Leviathan and the Whale Hierarchy from the Unwritten
The Godheads from World of Darkness
Witches from Umineko
Gods, Demons and Archetypes from Megami Tensei
Most characters from the Elder Scrolls
And this one might be suprising, but many characters from Nasuverse as well
I’ve heard the Downstreamers from Manifold may qualifyI also wonder which characters will get High-1A+
I'd assume The Ultimate Gods (verse should just be reconstructed at this point), Bondye, GOTM would be contenders.
You're just saying that cause I haven't show the proofs yetNone of these are getting high 1-A+. Dunno about the leviathan though or WoD.
I'm pretty sure the creators put a full stop to High 1-A+ umineko if you took the truths as being High 1-A+. You can't be ontologically above modal realism or else it's a contradiction unless you're tier 0.You're just saying that cause I haven't show the proofs yet
Almost each of them does have MR
God (Unsong) won't be tier 0.MY predictions....
Self Reference-ENGINE (Self Reference-ENGINE)Will be High 1-A+ in first key and the second key will be removed since it is just a lack of qualities entirely, rather than transcendence of qualities.
The Dharmakaya (Journey To The West)I would say probably. Seems like it could be controversial.
The Star Maker (Star Maker)Will be High 1-A+
Essential Divinity (World Of Darkness)I could see this being the case based on the description.
The Clear Light (Twin Peaks)Description of being perfect, formless, oneness with everything sounds like it'd fit.
The White Light (Transrealist) IDK
The Luminous Being (Dungeons and Dragons)Based on the profile I am pretty sure this is just a meta-hierarchical being rather than an all-encompassing, all-stemming one.
The One (The Divine Comedy)Believe this was literally the example used for Tier 0 in the first place.
God (Unsong)Sounds like negative theology to me, which could make it Tier 0.
The Supreme Archetype (Cthulhu Mythos)IMO it is enough to qualify, but Deagonx will be contesting this one!
Possibly The Light (Dark Siders) IDK
Possibly The One (Transformers)Based on current profile it doesn't sound like nearly enough evidence for Tier 0.
Possibly Gan (The Dark Tower)As far as I know he just transcends a layered High 1-A cosmology.
Possibly Mana-Yood-Sushai (Dunsanyverse)From the profile just sounds like 1-A at most.
Possibly Eru Illuvatar (Lord Of The Rings)This sounds like 1-A, rather than 0.
Possibly The Amaranth (The Elder Scrolls) IDK
Possibly The Magician (Seekers Into The Mystery) IDK
Why?white light absolutely qualifies
It has a lot of statements pertaining to it being a monad, and it has very blatant apophatic statements. It's not something limited to mathematics, since it actually transcends mathematics and even platonic ideas. You'll see after I make a thread on it, I've been working on the verse for a while.Why?
Wrong. (in a way)Unrelated to the conversation but I think some people are also ignoring that God/supreme being needs to view everything as an illusion/fiction/unreality to qualify for Tier 0 as well and not just being "Monad-like".
Not really? Character that is only described as "encompassing everything that exists and doesn't exist" wouldn't automatically be tier 0.Wrong. (in a way)
They're not the same thing and they're written by different writers. Also, DC works on a Cosmology split. So while Doctor Fate “God” gets 0, the Overvoid is just 1-A.What about God/the Overvoid from DC? Will it get a Tier 0 Key or not?
I think it has qualities to get to tier 0, like these.
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These are from Dr Fate Issues
Most likely would just be High 1-A+MY predictions....
Self Reference-ENGINE (Self Reference-ENGINE)Will be High 1-A+ in first key and the second key will be removed since it is just a lack of qualities entirely, rather than transcendence of qualities.
Based on the absolute infinity conception, it’s a maybe.The White Light (Transrealist) IDK
Though, Ultima doesn't mind. Agnaa doesn't believe it to be so thus a revaluation is needed. Though, at this rate, it wouldn't qualify.God (Unsong)Sounds like negative theology to me, which could make it Tier 0.
Ultima, himself, is being skeptical of this. In the end, I don't think it will be 0, at least not pertaining to any specific profile we have. Either, Yog and Az would have to both be High 1-A+ and a profile of the overreaching Supreme Archetype encompass both to be 0, or the verse flat out won't get 0.The Supreme Archetype (Cthulhu Mythos)IMO it is enough to qualify, but Deagonx will be contesting this one!
Not at all.Possibly The Light (Dark Siders) IDK
As far as I know. Ultima will personally oversee the verse revision though a thread is open about it. He's sure that Gan would qualify for 0.Possibly Gan (The Dark Tower)As far as I know he just transcends a layered High 1-A cosmology.
This is a confusing one. It perfectly fits the notion of Dream and Dreamer which is a cheat code 0. There's also no real anti-feat for Mana-Yood-Sushai. So 0 is actually more than likely. The problem stems from other than the Dream and Dreamer logic there's no mention of things like transcendence, non-duality, divine simplicity, negative theology, etc….However, those are supplementary, and as long as Mana-Yood-Sushai is treated as immutable, beyond any hierarchy, and exists itself as the one-encompassing being then it can be 0 just with that description.Possibly Mana-Yood-Sushai (Dunsanyverse)From the profile just sounds like 1-A at most.
Ultima literally used Eru as a prime example of 0.Possibly Eru Illuvatar (Lord Of The Rings)This sounds like 1-A, rather than 0.
The entire verse is shaky and needs a revamp. From what I've seen, it is either High 1-A+ or 0(likely the revaluation won't get anywhere and most likely will be 0).Possibly The Amaranth (The Elder Scrolls) IDK
Another prime example that Ultima used as 0. He, in fact, created a profile for it already in a sandbox. It just needs more consensus from the mods to implement it on the site.Possibly The Magician (Seekers Into The Mystery) IDK
Putting words in Ultimas mouthThough, Ultima doesn't mind. Agnaa doesn't believe it to be so thus a revaluation is needed. Though, at this rate, it wouldn't qualify.
Ultima, himself, is being skeptical of this. In the end, I don't think it will be 0, at least not pertaining to any specific profile we have. Either, Yog and Az would have to both be High 1-A+ and a profile of the overreaching Supreme Archetype encompass both to be 0, or the verse flat out won't get 0.
As far as I know. Ultima will personally oversee the verse revision though a thread is open about it. He's sure that Gan would qualify for 0.
Agnaa literally confirms his discussion with Ultima that Unsong won't be getting 0. Ultima didn't show any signs of disagreement since Agnaa is well-versed in Unsong. Sadly, this verse will lose its 0.Putting words in Ultimas mouth![]()
Agnaa literally confirms his discussion with Ultima that Unsong won't be getting 0. Ultima didn't show any signs of disagreement since Agnaa is well-versed in Unsong. Sadly, this verse will lose its 0.
Ultima is unsure of it. Deagon argument for the fact that Yog is inferior to Az puts it into question since the two prime examples of his “Dharmakaya” and “Yog-Sthoth” were rebutted by Deagon for lacking something. While the Dharmakaya was confirmed to be 0 since Ultima told me in a direct message that he'll keep it as 0. He could not, however, think that for Yog.
So either, Yog’s and Az's profiles would have to change by making one superior to the other. If not then they'll be tested as parts of the Supreme Archetype meaning they can't both qualify for 0. Or, the final straw is that the Lovecraft verse won't get a 0 at all.
As for Dark Tower. I've volunteered to make a revision of the profiles and characters. Ultimate digress as he told me he would personally look over it. I presented that Gan could be 0 and he literally said, yes, but he would have to relook at some aspect since he wants to change the verse himself.
In other words. It's literally his words.
Gan is most likely going to be 0.I said Gan could be tier 0 and he basically called me a schizo
Yeah, but due to many sour interpretations of who is the strongest in the Cthulhu mythos, then there's going to be a debacle about whether any profile would get 0.and bro is the biggest supporter of the tier 0 supreme archetype
I said Gan could be tier 0 and he basically called me a schizo
Never really understood why Azathoth or Yog were granted 0 ratings in the first place and a dualistic macrocosm of the Supreme Archetype, the former had 0 relevance with the Supreme Archetype, and Yog wasn't even confirmed to exist in TtGotSK; Yog is mentioned once in the story and it was just an implication.Agnaa literally confirms his discussion with Ultima that Unsong won't be getting 0. Ultima didn't show any signs of disagreement since Agnaa is well-versed in Unsong. Sadly, this verse will lose its 0.
Ultima is unsure of it. Deagon argument for the fact that Yog is inferior to Az puts it into question since the two prime examples of his “Dharmakaya” and “Yog-Sthoth” were rebutted by Deagon for lacking something. While the Dharmakaya was confirmed to be 0 since Ultima told me in a direct message that he'll keep it as 0. He could not, however, think that for Yog.
So either, Yog’s and Az's profiles would have to change by making one superior to the other. If not then they'll be treated as parts of the Supreme Archetype meaning they can't both qualify for 0. Or, the final straw is that the Lovecraft verse won't get a 0 at all.
As for Dark Tower. I've volunteered to make a revision of the profiles and characters. Ultima digress as he told me he would personally look over it. I presented that Gan could be 0 and he literally said, yes, but he would have to relook at some aspect since he wants to change the verse himself.
In other words. It's literally his words.
Probably the best choice.Never really understood why Azathoth or Yog were granted 0 ratings in the first place and a dualistic macrocosm of the Supreme Archetype, the former had 0 relevance with the Supreme Archetype, and Yog wasn't even confirmed to exist in TtGotSK; Yog is mentioned once in the story and it was just an implication.
If anything, Yog and Azathoth should just get High-1A+ and the Supreme Archetype should get a 0 profile since the main point for that things existence is that everything in the Mythos is a manifestation of it, from the dreamlands all the way to the Ultimate Mystery, The Archetypes and Yog itself
No? Supreme Archetype IS Yog Sothoth, it's literally confirmed in the scan you gave.Never really understood why Azathoth or Yog were granted 0 ratings in the first place and a dualistic macrocosm of the Supreme Archetype, the former had 0 relevance with the Supreme Archetype, and Yog wasn't even confirmed to exist in TtGotSK; Yog is mentioned once in the story and it was just an implication.
If anything, Yog and Azathoth should just get High-1A+ and the Supreme Archetype should get a 0 profile since the main point for that things existence is that everything in the Mythos is a manifestation of it, from the dreamlands all the way to the Ultimate Mystery, The Archetypes and Yog itself