Tier 0 characters in the new tiering system

[Frans_Kadmon]

The Luminous Being (Dungeons and Dragons)

Can I ask why Luminous Being is considered Tier 0? Because as far as I can see in the profile (which I guess is very old), there is no demonstration of Monad that qualify it at all.

 

[TellingGojira]

Can I ask why Luminous Being is considered Tier 0? Because as far as I can see in the profile (which I guess is very old), there is no demonstration of Monad that qualify it at all.

Just prompting in a positive way, but the "characters" on that list are simply my educated guesses, and the official list will likely vary differently from mine. As for your comment, you're most likely right, as this is most likely High-1A+. Then again, the profile is old, and likely needs changes, possibly even a revision

 

[Frans_Kadmon]

Just prompting in a positive way, but the "characters" on that list are simply my educated guesses, and the official list will likely vary differently from mine. As for your comment, you're most likely right, as this is most likely High-1A+. Then again, the profile is old, and likely needs changes, possibly even a revision

I see.

 

[Lemongifted101]

Kub mut

Krub I here Kronos

 

[Livinmeme]

F

Just prompting in a positive way, but the "characters" on that list are simply my educated guesses, and the official list will likely vary differently from mine. As for your comment, you're most likely right, as this is most likely High-1A+. Then again, the profile is old, and likely needs changes, possibly even a revision

DnD is outdated

 

[RenderGK]

well

 

[TellingGojira]

Old system is gone now, can't wait to see the new 0 pages

 

[RenderGK]

yup

 

[Phoenks]

Since the new requirements are in short

A tier 0 cannot undergo any form of change whatsoever
There can only be one tier 0 character from a verse
A tier 0 cannot be surpassed or have peers of similar equivalency
A tier 0 can't have parts
A tier 0 can't be part of a hierarchy
A character can't "become" tier 0
There can't be a character that has tier 0 power, but some nature distinct from that

Then some of the ones I can name off the top of my head are

Self Reference-ENGINE (Self Reference-ENGINE)
The Dharmakaya (Journey To The West)
The Star Maker (Star Maker)
Essential Divinity (World Of Darkness)
The Clear Light (Twin Peaks)
The White Light (Transrealist)
The Luminous Being (Dungeons and Dragons)
The One (The Divine Comedy)
God (Unsong)
The Supreme Archetype (Cthulhu Mythos)
Possibly The Light (Dark Siders)
Possibly The One (Transformers)
Possibly Gan (The Dark Tower)
Possibly Mana-Yood-Sushai (Dunsanyverse)
Possibly Eru Illuvatar (Lord Of The Rings)
Possibly The Amaranth (The Elder Scrolls)
Possibly The Magician (Seekers Into The Mystery)

MY predictions....

Self Reference-ENGINE (Self Reference-ENGINE) Will be High 1-A+ in first key and the second key will be removed since it is just a lack of qualities entirely, rather than transcendence of qualities.
The Dharmakaya (Journey To The West) I would say probably. Seems like it could be controversial.
The Star Maker (Star Maker) Will be High 1-A+
Essential Divinity (World Of Darkness) I could see this being the case based on the description.
The Clear Light (Twin Peaks) Description of being perfect, formless, oneness with everything sounds like it'd fit.
The White Light (Transrealist) IDK
The Luminous Being (Dungeons and Dragons) Based on the profile I am pretty sure this is just a meta-hierarchical being rather than an all-encompassing, all-stemming one.
The One (The Divine Comedy) Believe this was literally the example used for Tier 0 in the first place.
God (Unsong) Sounds like negative theology to me, which could make it Tier 0.
The Supreme Archetype (Cthulhu Mythos) IMO it is enough to qualify, but Deagonx will be contesting this one!
Possibly The Light (Dark Siders) IDK
Possibly The One (Transformers) Based on current profile it doesn't sound like nearly enough evidence for Tier 0.
Possibly Gan (The Dark Tower) As far as I know he just transcends a layered High 1-A cosmology.
Possibly Mana-Yood-Sushai (Dunsanyverse) From the profile just sounds like 1-A at most.
Possibly Eru Illuvatar (Lord Of The Rings) This sounds like 1-A, rather than 0.
Possibly The Amaranth (The Elder Scrolls) IDK
Possibly The Magician (Seekers Into The Mystery) IDK

 

[Iiliminal]

white light absolutely qualifies

 

[Livinmeme]

Will be High 1-A+ in first key and the second key will be removed since it is just a lack of qualities entirely, rather than transcendence of qualities.

Isn't the entire point of tier 0, to literally lack quality, instead of just trascending it?

Possibly Eru Illuvatar (Lord Of The Rings) This sounds like 1-A, rather than 0.

Possibly The One (Transformers) Based on current profile it doesn't sound like nearly enough evidence for Tier 0.

Those are pretty outdated, to the point that Transformers needs an entire verse cleanup, so new scans making them tier 0 isn't entirely out of the question

 

[Phoenks]

Isn't the entire point of tier 0, to literally lack quality, instead of just trascending it?

Literal lack of any quality would just be nothingness. Which is what we see with SRE since its "true state" is just the end of the book. Like it literally just isn't anything anymore.

While something that transcends qualities is something, but something that quality can't describe, contain, or differentiate. Thus it is "nonexistent" but it is in a different way entirely. More like it transcends existence.

If SRE's true state was tiered, it would pretty much be the opposite of Tier 0.

 

[Livinmeme]

Literal lack of any quality would just be nothingness. Which is what we see with SRE since its "true state" is just the end of the book. Like it literally just isn't anything anymore.

While something that transcends qualities is something, but something that quality can't describe, contain, or differentiate. Thus it is "nonexistent" but it is in a different way entirely. More like it transcends existence.

If SRE's true state was tiered, it would pretty much be the opposite of Tier 0.

SRE is so broken the he overflows the tier list, and becomes the weakest dude

I am okay with this

 

[TellingGojira]

MY predictions....

Self Reference-ENGINE (Self Reference-ENGINE) Will be High 1-A+ in first key and the second key will be removed since it is just a lack of qualities entirely, rather than transcendence of qualities.

Uh, the Engine's 2nd key isn't just "lacking of quality", it is beyond it's already "nonexistent" shell in comparison to the entire verse (which was just one of all possible character strings), the shell's description of "not existing" doesn't even apply to the idea of the actual Engine straight up killing itself/not existing in the story anymore. This is why it uses non or not every time it mentions it's own existence, and this is exactly why it lacks knowledge of it's creators (the actual Engine), or why the GCOK or HGCOK wan't to seek and destroy it.

It is then from this when the actual Engine comes out and addresses the reader, explaining that the below

Everything, including all character strings, the idea of not existing (and the gimmick of its Transduality in general), was nothing but a shell that was narrated by the Engine's actual body to explain to the reader, once you end the Book, you're not killing the Engine and the Engine doesn't kill itself, the Engine simply ceases operations for the book (ending narration), and returns back into a dormant state

I also apologize if some of the scans have bad lighting, as I am shooting them in my room and it is Not A Good Place here

 

[BestMGQScalerEver]

MY predictions....

Possibly Eru Illuvatar (Lord Of The Rings) This sounds like 1-A, rather than 0.
Possibly The Amaranth (The Elder Scrolls) IDK
Possibly The Magician (Seekers Into The Mystery) IDK

These ones are like blatantly tier 0 btw. Eru's profile just doesn't give it any justice.
you got scans like this

Spoiler

 

[Hirotoswnn1x]

Krub I here Kronos

I kauy now na hee dok

 

[GZ2022]

I am honestly super sure that the Great Will (Megami Tensei) could reach Tier 0.
I nobody believes it, I can prove it.

 

[BestMGQScalerEver]

I am honestly super sure that the Great Will (Megami Tensei) could reach Tier 0.
I nobody believes it, I can prove it.

if you mean the axiom/great reason then probably

 

[GZ2022]

if you mean the axiom/great reason then probably

Yeah
It should be Tier 0, or at least High 1-A+

 

[TellingGojira]

I also wonder which characters will get High-1A+
I'd assume The Ultimate Gods (verse should just be reconstructed at this point), Bondye, GOTM would be contenders.

 

[GZ2022]

I also wonder which characters will get High-1A+
I'd assume The Ultimate Gods (verse should just be reconstructed at this point), Bondye, GOTM would be contenders.

I have no doubt it would be the following
Comic Entities from Marvel
The Leviathan and the Whale Hierarchy from the Unwritten
The Godheads from World of Darkness
Witches from Umineko
Gods, Demons and Archetypes from Megami Tensei
Most characters from the Elder Scrolls
And this one might be suprising, but many characters from Nasuverse as well

 

[BestMGQScalerEver]

I have no doubt it would be the following
Comic Entities from Marvel
The Leviathan and the Whale Hierarchy from the Unwritten
The Godheads from World of Darkness
Witches from Umineko
Gods, Demons and Archetypes from Megami Tensei
Most characters from the Elder Scrolls
And this one might be suprising, but many characters from Nasuverse as well

None of these are getting high 1-A+. Dunno about the leviathan though or WoD.

 

[CanineAnnoyer]

I also wonder which characters will get High-1A+
I'd assume The Ultimate Gods (verse should just be reconstructed at this point), Bondye, GOTM would be contenders.

I’ve heard the Downstreamers from Manifold may qualify

 

[GZ2022]

None of these are getting high 1-A+. Dunno about the leviathan though or WoD.

You're just saying that cause I haven't show the proofs yet
Almost each of them does have MR

 

[BestMGQScalerEver]

You're just saying that cause I haven't show the proofs yet
Almost each of them does have MR

I'm pretty sure the creators put a full stop to High 1-A+ umineko if you took the truths as being High 1-A+. You can't be ontologically above modal realism or else it's a contradiction unless you're tier 0.

Only the dreamsleeve is High 1-A+ in TES.

Megami Tensei has same problem with Umineko afaik and Nasuverse too.

Marvel has a hierarchy of characters above any supposed MR.

 

[Gasper]

MY predictions....

Self Reference-ENGINE (Self Reference-ENGINE) Will be High 1-A+ in first key and the second key will be removed since it is just a lack of qualities entirely, rather than transcendence of qualities.
The Dharmakaya (Journey To The West) I would say probably. Seems like it could be controversial.
The Star Maker (Star Maker) Will be High 1-A+
Essential Divinity (World Of Darkness) I could see this being the case based on the description.
The Clear Light (Twin Peaks) Description of being perfect, formless, oneness with everything sounds like it'd fit.
The White Light (Transrealist) IDK
The Luminous Being (Dungeons and Dragons) Based on the profile I am pretty sure this is just a meta-hierarchical being rather than an all-encompassing, all-stemming one.
The One (The Divine Comedy) Believe this was literally the example used for Tier 0 in the first place.
God (Unsong) Sounds like negative theology to me, which could make it Tier 0.
The Supreme Archetype (Cthulhu Mythos) IMO it is enough to qualify, but Deagonx will be contesting this one!
Possibly The Light (Dark Siders) IDK
Possibly The One (Transformers) Based on current profile it doesn't sound like nearly enough evidence for Tier 0.
Possibly Gan (The Dark Tower) As far as I know he just transcends a layered High 1-A cosmology.
Possibly Mana-Yood-Sushai (Dunsanyverse) From the profile just sounds like 1-A at most.
Possibly Eru Illuvatar (Lord Of The Rings) This sounds like 1-A, rather than 0.
Possibly The Amaranth (The Elder Scrolls) IDK
Possibly The Magician (Seekers Into The Mystery) IDK

God (Unsong) won't be tier 0.

white light absolutely qualifies

Why?

 

[Oblivion_Of_The_Endless]

Why?

It has a lot of statements pertaining to it being a monad, and it has very blatant apophatic statements. It's not something limited to mathematics, since it actually transcends mathematics and even platonic ideas. You'll see after I make a thread on it, I've been working on the verse for a while.

 

[Gasper]

Unrelated to the conversation but I think some people are also ignoring that God/supreme being needs to view everything as an illusion/fiction/unreality to qualify for Tier 0 as well and not just being "Monad-like".

 

[BestMGQScalerEver]

Unrelated to the conversation but I think some people are also ignoring that God/supreme being needs to view everything as an illusion/fiction/unreality to qualify for Tier 0 as well and not just being "Monad-like".

Wrong. (in a way)

 

[Gasper]

Wrong. (in a way)

Not really? Character that is only described as "encompassing everything that exists and doesn't exist" wouldn't automatically be tier 0.
Tier 0 needs to be completely unreachable to anything below (something like seeing everything as infinitely inferior to itself like God from Divine Comedy for example).

 

[VeryGoofyToddler2]

What about God/the Overvoid from DC? Will it get a Tier 0 Key or not?
I think it has qualities to get to tier 0, like these.

These are from Dr Fate Issues

They're not the same thing and they're written by different writers. Also, DC works on a Cosmology split. So while Doctor Fate “God” gets 0, the Overvoid is just 1-A.

 

[VeryGoofyToddler2]

MY predictions....

Self Reference-ENGINE (Self Reference-ENGINE) Will be High 1-A+ in first key and the second key will be removed since it is just a lack of qualities entirely, rather than transcendence of qualities.

Most likely would just be High 1-A+

The White Light (Transrealist) IDK

Based on the absolute infinity conception, it’s a maybe.

God (Unsong) Sounds like negative theology to me, which could make it Tier 0.

Though, Ultima doesn't mind. Agnaa doesn't believe it to be so thus a revaluation is needed. Though, at this rate, it wouldn't qualify.

The Supreme Archetype (Cthulhu Mythos) IMO it is enough to qualify, but Deagonx will be contesting this one!

Ultima, himself, is being skeptical of this. In the end, I don't think it will be 0, at least not pertaining to any specific profile we have. Either, Yog and Az would have to both be High 1-A+ and a profile of the overreaching Supreme Archetype encompass both to be 0, or the verse flat out won't get 0.

Possibly The Light (Dark Siders) IDK

Not at all.

Possibly Gan (The Dark Tower) As far as I know he just transcends a layered High 1-A cosmology.

As far as I know. Ultima will personally oversee the verse revision though a thread is open about it. He's sure that Gan would qualify for 0.

Possibly Mana-Yood-Sushai (Dunsanyverse) From the profile just sounds like 1-A at most.

This is a confusing one. It perfectly fits the notion of Dream and Dreamer which is a cheat code 0. There's also no real anti-feat for Mana-Yood-Sushai. So 0 is actually more than likely. The problem stems from other than the Dream and Dreamer logic there's no mention of things like transcendence, non-duality, divine simplicity, negative theology, etc….However, those are supplementary, and as long as Mana-Yood-Sushai is treated as immutable, beyond any hierarchy, and exists itself as the one-encompassing being then it can be 0 just with that description.

Possibly Eru Illuvatar (Lord Of The Rings) This sounds like 1-A, rather than 0.

Ultima literally used Eru as a prime example of 0.

Possibly The Amaranth (The Elder Scrolls) IDK

The entire verse is shaky and needs a revamp. From what I've seen, it is either High 1-A+ or 0(likely the revaluation won't get anywhere and most likely will be 0).

Possibly The Magician (Seekers Into The Mystery) IDK

Another prime example that Ultima used as 0. He, in fact, created a profile for it already in a sandbox. It just needs more consensus from the mods to implement it on the site.

 

[BestMGQScalerEver]

Though, Ultima doesn't mind. Agnaa doesn't believe it to be so thus a revaluation is needed. Though, at this rate, it wouldn't qualify.

Ultima, himself, is being skeptical of this. In the end, I don't think it will be 0, at least not pertaining to any specific profile we have. Either, Yog and Az would have to both be High 1-A+ and a profile of the overreaching Supreme Archetype encompass both to be 0, or the verse flat out won't get 0.

As far as I know. Ultima will personally oversee the verse revision though a thread is open about it. He's sure that Gan would qualify for 0.

Putting words in Ultimas mouth

 

[VeryGoofyToddler2]

Putting words in Ultimas mouth

Agnaa literally confirms his discussion with Ultima that Unsong won't be getting 0. Ultima didn't show any signs of disagreement since Agnaa is well-versed in Unsong. Sadly, this verse will lose its 0.

Ultima is unsure of it. Deagon argument for the fact that Yog is inferior to Az puts it into question since the two prime examples of his “Dharmakaya” and “Yog-Sthoth” were rebutted by Deagon for lacking something. While the Dharmakaya was confirmed to be 0 since Ultima told me in a direct message that he'll keep it as 0. He could not, however, think that for Yog.

So either, Yog’s and Az's profiles would have to change by making one superior to the other. If not then they'll be treated as parts of the Supreme Archetype meaning they can't both qualify for 0. Or, the final straw is that the Lovecraft verse won't get a 0 at all.

As for Dark Tower. I've volunteered to make a revision of the profiles and characters. Ultima digress as he told me he would personally look over it. I presented that Gan could be 0 and he literally said, yes, but he would have to relook at some aspect since he wants to change the verse himself.

In other words. It's literally his words.

 

[BestMGQScalerEver]

Agnaa literally confirms his discussion with Ultima that Unsong won't be getting 0. Ultima didn't show any signs of disagreement since Agnaa is well-versed in Unsong. Sadly, this verse will lose its 0.

Ultima is unsure of it. Deagon argument for the fact that Yog is inferior to Az puts it into question since the two prime examples of his “Dharmakaya” and “Yog-Sthoth” were rebutted by Deagon for lacking something. While the Dharmakaya was confirmed to be 0 since Ultima told me in a direct message that he'll keep it as 0. He could not, however, think that for Yog.

So either, Yog’s and Az's profiles would have to change by making one superior to the other. If not then they'll be tested as parts of the Supreme Archetype meaning they can't both qualify for 0. Or, the final straw is that the Lovecraft verse won't get a 0 at all.

As for Dark Tower. I've volunteered to make a revision of the profiles and characters. Ultimate digress as he told me he would personally look over it. I presented that Gan could be 0 and he literally said, yes, but he would have to relook at some aspect since he wants to change the verse himself.

In other words. It's literally his words.

I said Gan could be tier 0 and he basically called me a schizo

I misunderstood the point with Unsong then.

and bro is the biggest supporter of tier 0 supreme archetype

 

[VeryGoofyToddler2]

I said Gan could be tier 0 and he basically called me a schizo

Gan is most likely going to be 0.

and bro is the biggest supporter of the tier 0 supreme archetype

Yeah, but due to many sour interpretations of who is the strongest in the Cthulhu mythos, then there's going to be a debacle about whether any profile would get 0.

 

[Livinmeme]

I said Gan could be tier 0 and he basically called me a schizo

It takes one, to recognize one

 

[TellingGojira]

Agnaa literally confirms his discussion with Ultima that Unsong won't be getting 0. Ultima didn't show any signs of disagreement since Agnaa is well-versed in Unsong. Sadly, this verse will lose its 0.

Ultima is unsure of it. Deagon argument for the fact that Yog is inferior to Az puts it into question since the two prime examples of his “Dharmakaya” and “Yog-Sthoth” were rebutted by Deagon for lacking something. While the Dharmakaya was confirmed to be 0 since Ultima told me in a direct message that he'll keep it as 0. He could not, however, think that for Yog.

So either, Yog’s and Az's profiles would have to change by making one superior to the other. If not then they'll be treated as parts of the Supreme Archetype meaning they can't both qualify for 0. Or, the final straw is that the Lovecraft verse won't get a 0 at all.

As for Dark Tower. I've volunteered to make a revision of the profiles and characters. Ultima digress as he told me he would personally look over it. I presented that Gan could be 0 and he literally said, yes, but he would have to relook at some aspect since he wants to change the verse himself.

In other words. It's literally his words.

Never really understood why Azathoth or Yog were granted 0 ratings in the first place and a dualistic macrocosm of the Supreme Archetype, the former had 0 relevance with the Supreme Archetype, and Yog wasn't even confirmed to exist in TtGotSK; Yog is mentioned once in the story and it was just an implication.
If anything, Yog and Azathoth should just get High-1A+ and the Supreme Archetype should get a 0 profile since the main point for that things existence is that everything in the Mythos is a manifestation of it, from the dreamlands all the way to the Ultimate Mystery, The Archetypes and Yog itself

 

[VeryGoofyToddler2]

Never really understood why Azathoth or Yog were granted 0 ratings in the first place and a dualistic macrocosm of the Supreme Archetype, the former had 0 relevance with the Supreme Archetype, and Yog wasn't even confirmed to exist in TtGotSK; Yog is mentioned once in the story and it was just an implication.
If anything, Yog and Azathoth should just get High-1A+ and the Supreme Archetype should get a 0 profile since the main point for that things existence is that everything in the Mythos is a manifestation of it, from the dreamlands all the way to the Ultimate Mystery, The Archetypes and Yog itself

Probably the best choice.

 

[Gasper]

Never really understood why Azathoth or Yog were granted 0 ratings in the first place and a dualistic macrocosm of the Supreme Archetype, the former had 0 relevance with the Supreme Archetype, and Yog wasn't even confirmed to exist in TtGotSK; Yog is mentioned once in the story and it was just an implication.
If anything, Yog and Azathoth should just get High-1A+ and the Supreme Archetype should get a 0 profile since the main point for that things existence is that everything in the Mythos is a manifestation of it, from the dreamlands all the way to the Ultimate Mystery, The Archetypes and Yog itself

No? Supreme Archetype IS Yog Sothoth, it's literally confirmed in the scan you gave.