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Tier 0 characters in the new tiering system

Gasper said:
No? Supreme Archetype IS Yog Sothoth, it's literally confirmed in the scan you gave.
Click to expand...
Reader interpretation, thats why it is vague on purpose, no confirmation that the being speaking to carter was even Yog, it's just an implication, and Lovecraft didn't put a power roster on his entities for the sake of power dictation
Either way, people are trying too hard to incorporate Price's cosmological ideas with the rest of the mythos, even if TtGotSK was largely rewritten by Lovecraft himself.
 
VeryGoofyToddler said:
The scan literally implies that some secret clut worshipped and praised Yog accrediting it as that. So it being an “implication” is still correct.
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No? it's pretty blatantly stated that Yog sothoth is just another name for Supreme Archetype, they are the same.
"That which crustaceans have worshipped as YOG SOTHOTH"
 
TellingGojira said:
Reader interpretation, thats why it is vague on purpose, no confirmation that the being speaking to carter was even Yog, it's just an implication, and Lovecraft didn't put a power roster on his entities for the sake of power dictation
Either way, people are trying too hard to incorporate Price's cosmological ideas with the rest of the mythos, even if TtGotSK was largely rewritten by Lovecraft himself.
Click to expand...
Lovecraft clearly identified Price's "Supreme Archetype" as Yog.
 
Gasper said:
No? it's pretty blatantly stated that Yog sothoth is just another name for Supreme Archetype, they are the same.
"That which crustaceans have worshipped as YOG SOTHOTH"
Click to expand...
Not at all was what was being said by the scan especially since you didn't factor in “which certain secret cults of earth have whispered of as YOG-SOTHOTH.” That literally means that it's not universally viewed and Lovecraft makes no direct implication of it. Anything to suggest that it was blatantly mentioning “Yog” would be an implication.
 
VeryGoofyToddler said:
Not at all was what was being said by the scan especially since you didn't factor in “which certain secret cults of earth have whispered of as YOG-SOTHOTH.” That literally means that it's not universally viewed and Lovecraft makes no direct implication of it. Anything to suggest that it was blatantly mentioning “Yog” would be an implication.
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Yes, "certain secret cults" just means some of them identified this entity as Yog. I don't think Lovecraft is trying to distinguish the two.
 
The thing with Lovecraft's stories is that it looks like there are almost two different cosmologies there. One is for Azathoth and one for Yog. They are also NEVER compared and the only 2 stories I can think of them being mentioned in the same stories are "whisperer of darkness" and "hunter of the dark" and even then, they don't have anything to do with each other.
Kinda weird.
 
Gasper said:
The thing with Lovecraft's stories is that it looks like there are almost two different cosmologies there. One is for Azathoth and one for Yog. They are also NEVER compared and the only 2 stories I can think of them being mentioned in the same stories are "whisperer of darkness" and "hunter of the dark" and even then, they don't have anything to do with each other.
Kinda weird.
Click to expand...
I mean if someone is willing to revise the Cosmology and present their case on who should be at the top with a voting system. Then, I would support what the majority thinks, and if the CRT is viable and good enough to explain who should scale to the Supreme Archetype and get 0.
 
TellingGojira said:
Never really understood why Azathoth or Yog were granted 0 ratings in the first place and a dualistic macrocosm of the Supreme Archetype, the former had 0 relevance with the Supreme Archetype, and Yog wasn't even confirmed to exist in TtGotSK; Yog is mentioned once in the story and it was just an implication.
If anything, Yog and Azathoth should just get High-1A+ and the Supreme Archetype should get a 0 profile since the main point for that things existence is that everything in the Mythos is a manifestation of it, from the dreamlands all the way to the Ultimate Mystery, The Archetypes and Yog itself
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You're using discord images links, I recommend you to use Gyazo or Imgur instead, because discord links becomes non-aviable soon
 
So what are "confirmed" tier 0 characters so far?

God (divine comedy)
Dharmakaya (JTTW)
God (Seekers Into The Mystery)
Maybe Eru Illuvatar (LOTR)?
Most likely divine creator (Marvel Comics)
Most likely the smile (DC Comics)
Maybe White Light (Transrealist)
Most likely Essential Divinity (WOD)

Any more?
 
Gasper said:
So what are "confirmed" tier 0 characters so far?

God (divine comedy)
Dharmakaya (JTTW)
God (Seekers Into The Mystery)
Maybe Eru Illuvatar (LOTR)?
Most likely divine creator (Marvel Comics)
Most likely the smile (DC Comics)
Maybe White Light (Transrealist)
Most likely Essential Divinity (WOD)

Any more?
Click to expand...
Eru is confirmed to be Tier 0 by Ultima.
 
Gasper said:
I knew that there were talks about that but didn't know that Ultima 100% agreed.
Click to expand...
I'm in talks with Ultima about LotR tiers. Currently trying to also convince him on some High 1-A+ Ainur. Still waiting on his response on that...
 
What's up with Clear Light? It's description doesn't really sound like tier 0 but that's most likely because Twin Peaks profiles are heavily outdated.
 
Gasper said:
What's up with Clear Light? It's description doesn't really sound like tier 0 but that's most likely because Twin Peaks profiles are heavily outdated.
Click to expand...
You're telling me this doesn't sound like 0:
Completely beyond even the distinction between "God" and its shadow-self, both of which are merely two complementary aspects derived from an overarching state of oneness, the "naked, spotless intellect" whose nature is completely featureless and devoid of attributes and characteristics entirely, "existing" as a perfect, transparent vacuum with no form or color whatsoever, whereas even the former two still have colors representing their essences
Click to expand...
That’s nearly a perfect description of 0.
 
VeryGoofyToddler said:
You're telling me this doesn't sound like 0:

That’s nearly a perfect description of 0.
Click to expand...
Yes but how much of this is actually paraphrasing and what is an actual description in the text itself.

Also, most of that is just talking about how Clear Light is "featureless" and "naked, spottless intellect" etc.
Which could be summed up in one word: formless. Which isn't what makes a character tier 0.

Also what does "Oneness" in this context mean? If it doesn't mean "everything is derived from and is part of Clear Light and everything will return to it at some point" then it means nothing for Tier 0.
 
Unrelated but can there be only one High 1-A+ character in a single verse/franchise?
 
Gasper said:
Yes but how much of this is actually paraphrasing and what is an actual description in the text itself.
Click to expand...
That's fair.
Gasper said:
Also, most of that is just talking about how Clear Light is "featureless" and "naked, spottless intellect" etc.
Which could be summed up in one word: formless. Which isn't what makes a character tier 0.
Click to expand...
From the short description, it also says “derived from an overarching state of oneness.” The naked, spotless intellect seems more indicative of apophatic views which is one of the bases of 0.

Much less, it preceding existence and being the source of it all, especially if that includes the Purple Sea and all the notions of God who already encompasses all existence.
Gasper said:
Also what does "Oneness" in this context mean? If it doesn't mean "everything is derived from and is part of Clear Light and everything will return to it at some point" then it means nothing for Tier 0.
Click to expand...
That’s literally how it sounds from the description.
 
Gasper said:
Unrelated but can there be only one High 1-A+ character in a single verse/franchise?
Click to expand...
Yes. A being can represent all possible contingency and all the possible logic that derives from 0 without needing lower orders encompassing or creating just a few possible worlds.
 
The Clear Light is obviously Tier-0
The entire point of Dido, Fireman and Judy is that they're mere avatars who draw from The Clear Light; manifestations of it

But I've also been told that the books that mention The Clear Light are not even canon, so someone should look into that
 
TellingGojira said:
The Clear Light is obviously Tier-0
The entire point of Dido, Fireman and Judy is that they're mere avatars who draw from The Clear Light; manifestations of it

But I've also been told that the books that mention The Clear Light are not even canon, so someone should look into that
Click to expand...
I'm currently doing a crt about this with new updates on the profiles of all the characters in Twin Peaks.
 
Gasper said:
This is Kinda unrelated but would this count as Acasuality type 5 for Angels?
Click to expand...

It’s hard to say. I, personally, say either type 4 or type 5.

Type 4 because God is the cause of all accidents, incidents, and the rules of causality. Thus, Angels by extension would exist outside the norms of time prior to the creation of the world of man, meaning they're likely older and outside time. However, in turn, they're bounded by the eternal bliss and moving of God.

Or

Type 5 due to the fact they're extensions of God's internal love and are his emissary for moving God’s love within the worlds. Obviously, God has Ascasuality type 5, but a lesser being comes from him if he grants them some sort of immutability. Which the scans look like it's roughly trying to tell us.
Note that being utterly and totally immutable is something that, strictly speaking, is only guaranteed for characters with a Tier 0 rating, while lesser characters can only have likewise lesser forms of the ability by their own nature. They may, however, have a particularly potent form of immutability bestowed upon them by a Tier 0.
Click to expand...
I like this part of the scan that kind of suggests it:

“Whereby their vision was exalted higher by illuminating grace and their own merit, in which their wills are changeless and entire.”
 
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