The Ultimate Annihilator Revision Part 2 + Extra

[Matthew_Schroeder]

It's stated that the term 'Zone' "usually refers to an alternate reality - an entire dimension", so I think Zone = universe is a fair assumption. Also, it's stated that the Ultimate Annihilator affected all Zones, with the context referring to the alternate universes/realities of the multiverse, an infinite amount. So Infinite range should be a given.

i agree that it affected the multiverse but several zones in the multiverse are explicitely noted to not be very big.

 

[Maverick_Zero_X]

i agree that it affected the multiverse but several zones in the multiverse are explicitely noted to not be very big.

I agree. Smaller pocket dimensions exist, but "Zone" can mean "universe" as well.

 

[Antvasima]

So what are the conclusions here so far?

 

[ElixirBlue]

but several zones in the multiverse are explicitely noted to not be very big.

Which ones? (Not that it matters for infinite range but curious)

 

[Elizhaa]

The range and speed update look fine, from the new evidence.

Willpower Restoration should not be linked to Supernatural Willpower since it is another ability, from its definition; I guess it should be linked to Empathic Manipulation given the Willpower Manipulation is deleted but I think a caveat that it only shows to works on robotic lifeforms should be added unless there is contrary evidence and that it is combat inapplicable.

I believe that Matthew still disagree with the Low 2-C rating; I am neutral since I don't know much on the topic.

 

[Antvasima]

Thank you for the summary. What the staff has accepted can probably be applied.

 

[Theuser789]

The low 2-C rating isn't the main topic of the thread, just who scales to the main characters

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

Outliers exist. Acting like everyone in Archie is Low 2-C is extremely stupid

 

[ElixirBlue]

Outliers exist. Acting like everyone in Archie is Low 2-C is extremely stupid

But you haven’t proven anything is an outlier with Robotnik and SWATbot scaling after all this time, so I might as well go ahead with the changes.

Willpower Restoration should not be linked to Supernatural Willpower since it is another ability, from its definition; I guess it should be linked to Empathic Manipulation given the Willpower Manipulation is deleted but I think a caveat that it only shows to works on robotic lifeforms should be added unless there is contrary evidence and that it is combat inapplicable.

Fair, I didn’t know what to link it to with the Willpower page deleted.

But Willpower was never described as just a trait solely Robotic Lifeforms have. Robotnik’s “Brain Burn” program was designed to attack specifically the Willpower of an individual when Sally’s Willpower resisted Robotnik’s control while she was a Robot, for example.

But yes, for the Ultimate Annihilator, Willpower Restoration was treated as a side effect from the UA malfunctioning, so not combat applicable.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

But you haven’t proven anything is an outlier with Robotnik and SWATbot scaling after all this time, so I might as well go ahead with the changes.

Show me a single feat from Robotnik or a SWATbot that surpasses Tier 9.

In fact, show me a SWATbot or Robotnik blowing up a building.

 

[ElixirBlue]

I said for the scaling to Sonic and the cast, you haven’t proven any outliers.

As for what you asked, Matt, pls read the thread and the OP before asking questions that have already been answered.

Next, show me each character from Dragon Ball Super displaying a Universal feat or even a Building level feat.

 

[ElixirBlue]

If there is nothing else, I’m implementing the changes.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

I said for the scaling to Sonic and the cast, you haven’t proven any outliers.

I asked for feats you haven't proven shit.

As for what you asked, Matt, pls read the thread and the OP before asking questions that have already been answered.

I have. The OP is outlier fake scaling.

Next, show me each character from Dragon Ball Super displaying a Universal feat or even a Building level feat.

Dragon Ball Super has better feats than Archie Sonic.

 

[ElixirBlue]

I asked for feats you haven't proven shit.

I’ve already given it and I will not repeat.

I have. The OP is outlier fake scaling.

Why yes, humans are capable of saying things like “this is an outlier, and this is an outlier” without backing it up. Thank you for the lesson.

Dragon Ball Super has better feats than Archie Sonic.

Subjective.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

I’ve already given it and I will not repeat.

You didn't actually. You gave me things that are meaningless on their own. Sally being Low 2-C is a joek too.

Why yes, humans are capable of saying things like “this is an outlier, and this is an outlier” without backing it up. Thank you for the lesson.

Show me a SWATbot blowing up a building with a single shot.

 

[ElixirBlue]

You didn't actually. You gave me things that are meaningless on their own. Sally being Low 2-C is a joek too.

Again, you appear to not have read the thread.

Show me a SWATbot blowing up a building with a single shot.

Weren’t you implying earlier in the thread they don’t scale to Sonic because you didn’t recall them showing Wall level feats? What, are you going to ask for Mountain Level feats next?

 

[ElixirBlue]

If there is nothing else, I’m implementing the changes.

And Matt’s current argument works better in the Low 2-C thread he wants to make, not the scaling to Sonic and the Cast themselves.

Can Archie Robotnik's profile be unlocked for the changes?

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

Weren’t you implying earlier in the thread they don’t scale to Sonic because you didn’t recall them showing Wall level feats? What, are you going to ask for Mountain Level feats next?

The only mountain level feat I recall in Archie is from a giant Eggman Mech who was stated to be stronger than Sonic.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

Can Archie Robotnik's profile be unlocked for the changes?

No. You won't steamroll upgrades without acceptance.

 

[ShakeResounding]

Idea.

Save Archie's tiering for another thread and stop derailing this one, eh? Spare us the headache of any further derailment when the outcome of that wouldn't even have any impact on this aside from the Swatbots. Which, eh, I think it'd be best to leave them for a separate CRT too tbh.

 

[Theuser789]

Outliers exist. Acting like everyone in Archie is Low 2-C is extremely stupid

I literally never stated that, it's just that unlike what you are arguing the tiering is not relevant to this CRT, even if Archie was 9-B the point of Swatbots scaling to Sonic wouldn't change the point in the OP. I personally disagree with everyone scaling to Sonic, but you haven't provided any counter arguments against his scaling

 

[ElixirBlue]

The only mountain level feat I recall in Archie is from a giant Eggman Mech who was stated to be stronger than Sonic.

Derailment, and misrepresenting the event.

Weren’t you implying earlier in the thread they don’t scale to Sonic because you didn’t recall them showing Wall level feats? What, are you going to ask for Mountain Level feats next?

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

I literally never stated that, it's just that unlike what you are arguing the tiering is not relevant to this CRT, even if Archie was 9-B the point of Swatbots scaling to Sonic wouldn't change the point in the OP. I personally disagree with everyone scaling to Sonic, but you haven't provided any counter arguments against his scaling

Sonic beats up the entire Freedom Fighters by himself when he gets serious on more than one occasion and they're consistently portrayed as shit in combat and speed compared to him.

Them scaling makes no sense. That's an argument.

 

[ElixirBlue]

Sonic beats up the entire Freedom Fighters by himself when he gets serious on more than one occasion and they're consistently portrayed as shit in combat and speed compared to him.

Them scaling makes no sense. That's an argument.

For a different thread. Stop Derailing.

 

[ShakeResounding]

Nome of this has any bearing on the Ultimate Annihilator, folks. Can we get back on track, finish this up, and then discuss all these things on a thread actually targeted for those things?

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

Then upgrade the Ultimate Annihilator and let's make a new thread to discuss scaling.

 

[ElixirBlue]

Then upgrade the Ultimate Annihilator and let's make a new thread to discuss scaling.

Don't have to, since nothing you have said contradicts the scans I've presented in the OP for SWATbots and Robotnik.

• Overwhelmed Sonic and the Freedom Fighters with Robotnik’s Operation Wasteland, a voice command for when Robotnik dies for good and someone uttered the key words

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

Don't have to, since nothing you have said contradicts the scans I've presented in the OP for SWAtbots and Robotnik.

I have. You're not going to upgrade them.

 

[ElixirBlue]

I have. You're not going to upgrade them.

... No, you haven't. You just been saying "Outlier Outlier Outlier Outlier" under personal bases.



Are you stonewalling so you don't need to make the Low 2-C thread?

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

You have one scan to argue low 2-C and it doesn't show the SWATbots hurting anyone or doing anything Low 2-C. All Sonic says is that "There's too many of them". Which is a low-end feat for Sonic not a Low 2-C feat for the SWATBots.

 

[ElixirBlue]

Fine, since you won't look at the OP.

SWATbots

Attack Potency: Universe level + (SWATbots conquered the Planet Mobius, fresh off the Great War, making them superior to Civilian Mobians and highly trained Mobian Soldiers, who roughly scale to Geoffrey St. John in combat skill and comparable strength. Superior to Robo-Robotnik’s(the 2nd Robotnik) Shadow Bots, receiving no loss of forces or damage from the conflict. Shadow Bots broke the Master Emerald. Should not be infinitely weaker than Omega, who caused pain on Fiest), higher via Self-Destruction (That made Sonic concerned). Can ignore conventional durability with Disintegration beams

Speed: Massively FTL+ (Ambushed an unsuspecting Sonic, who was dodging their laser beams), higher attack speed via laser beams

Lifting Strength: At least Class G (A Shadow Bot restrained Sally with no effort)

Striking Strength: Universal + (Knocked King Max out cold, effectively paralyzing him)

Durability: Universe level + (Often considered fodder to Sonic. Despite this, they have taken more than one hit to deal with by Sonic and have overwhelmed him in numbers)

Feats:

• They were THE military force Robotnik used to conquer Planet Mobius. The Iron King even views Robotnik’s forces at the time the edge he needed for his own conquests
• A Shadow Bot caused King Maximilian to become crippled for a time
• Overwhelmed Sonic and the Freedom Fighters with Robotnik’s Operation Wasteland, a voice command for when Robotnik dies for good and someone uttered the key words

Robotnik.

Attack Potency: Universe level + (Can easily one shot SWATbots. Took hits that knocked out Robo-Snively with one punch. Fought Sonic on equal footing on 3 separate occasions), Varies higher (Fought Sonic the Hedgehog with the Egg Beater, Egg Tarantula, Egg Destroyer Battlesuit, ect) to Multiverse level+ with machinery (Can rewrite all of reality with the Super Genesis Wave. Fought with Super Sonic and Super Armor Mega Man with the Egg-Wily Machine X), can bypass conventional durability in several ways

Speed: Massively FTL+ reactions and combat speed (Can react to Sonic in Base on multiple instances), Immeasurable with the Egg-Wily Machine X

Lifting Strength: At least Class G (Stronger than SWATbots. Deflected Sonic's charges in succession while being organic. Prime Robotnik and Robo-Robotnik V2.0 are comparable with each other), Varies from at least Class G to Immeasurable with machinery

Striking Strength: Universal + (Punched Sonic in the face, knocking him to the ground), Varies higher in Universal + to Multiversal+ with machines

Durability: Universe level + (Fought Sonic to the death. His species, the Overlanders, fought the Mobians in the Great War on equal footing), Varies higher in Universe level + to Multiverse level+ with machines, with forcefields, robot bodies that Stone Wall Sonic, transmution and immortality make him difficult to harm or kill

And since you ignored Knuckles being a Living Chaos Emerald the 1st time:

Check the OP. Check Omega. Check Eggman consistently scaling to Sonic the entire comic with no anti-feat against Eggman scaling to Sonic.

Actually, Eggman does have Low 2-C scaling outside of Sonic, from the Chaos Emerald’s durability.

Note, they never said Chaos Emeralds were destroyed by the Universal Level + explosion, but the Zone itself collapsing from the explosion took the emeralds with it.

Even if you can calk up Sonic and Knuckles surviving to their Super Forms, the same cannot be said about the Chaos Emeralds, as Sonic and Knuckles don't keep their Emeralds (like, ever in the story after using them), except for the one Knuckles manage to keep.

And no, Knuckles wasn't protecting the Emerald from the explosion in his fist, as we can see his palms are open when the explosion happened.

Emeralds getting destroyed by Base Characters, who scale to other Low 2-C's, are consistent with the story.

Plus the fact Knuckles is stated to be a Living Chaos Emerald from his birth, and Chaos Knuckles is a form from Knuckles' powers growing out of control, by the Encyclopedia itself.

Living Chaos Emerald =/= 2-A.

2-A which Knuckles grows into. Chaos Emeralds alone don’t have any feats at 2-A but they do have the Low 2-C explosion feat for durability and Low 2-C Creation from creating a Zone from nothing.


Pls prove what is nonsense through the story's logic, not your own.

 

[ElixirBlue]

If Matt responds with anything that doesn't resemble a counter argument any further, I am ignoring him and waiting for another Staff Member to respond.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

SWATbots conquered the Planet Mobius, fresh off the Great War, making them superior to Civilian Mobians and highly trained Mobian Soldiers

Mobian Soldiers are featless and not Low 2-C.

who roughly scale to Geoffrey St. John in combat skill and comparable strength

Provide a reason why Geoffrey is Low 2-C. He needs to use a ******* arrow gun and isn't strong or fast at all.

Superior to Robo-Robotnik’s(the 2nd Robotnik) Shadow Bots, receiving no loss of forces or damage from the conflict

I read the issue and the Shadow Bots were presented as stronger. Either way neither had any real feat in the issue that warrants Low 2-C.

Shadow Bots broke the Master Emerald

The Master Emerald's durability isns't Low 2-C. IT breaks really easily in the games why would it be different here? Side note the scan only shows the Shadow Bots breaking the Master Emerald's barrier by hitting the pinpoints where the energy fluctuation is at their weakest. The scan you are using to argue they scale don't make them scale.

Should not be infinitely weaker than Omega, who caused pain on Fiest

Infinitely Weaker isn't a thing in any verse. Backwards Tier 2 scaling via "Oh shouldn't be infinitely weaker" is pure nonsense.

Feist doesn't react to the blast and doesn't show any sign of pain. This is like scaling Iron Man to Galactus because he blast Galactus a few times.

higher via Self-Destruction (That made Sonic concerned).

This is in the very early issues where Sonic has no feats above Tier 9 and which are also gag-based and not remotely valid for serious scaling.

Ambushed an unsuspecting Sonic, who was dodging their laser beams

This isn't speed blitz. Sonic wasn't trying and wasn't suspecting them. Speedsters get caught by weaker / slower foes all the time. This is MFTL+ Deathstroke logic.

• They were THE military force Robotnik used to conquer Planet Mobius. The Iron King even views Robotnik’s forces at the time the edge he needed for his own conquests
• A Shadow Bot caused King Maximilian to become crippled for a time
• Overwhelmed Sonic and the Freedom Fighters with Robotnik’s Operation Wasteland, a voice command for when Robotnik dies for good and someone uttered the key words

None of the feats show Low 2-C shit at all. An army of weak fodder overwhelming the heroes through numbers don't make them individually comparable are you insane?

Attack Potency: Universe level + (Can easily one shot SWATbots. Took hits that knocked out Robo-Snively with one punch. Fought Sonic on equal footing on 3 separate occasions)

Sonic explictly has held back against Robotnik / Eggman in every single fight up until Issue 175. Scaling them is ridiculous.

Speed: Massively FTL+ reactions and combat speed (Can react to Sonic in Base on multiple instances)

Eggman has canonically no super speed whatsoever. Him reacting to Sonic is either PIS or Sonic holding back.

Striking Strength: Universal + (Punched Sonic in the face, knocking him to the ground),

Sonic is a weakling them. Either that or it's a low-end you won't recognize for what it is.

Fought Sonic to the death. His species, the Overlanders, fought the Mobians in the Great War on equal footing

Mobians and Overlanders aren't Lo 2-C stop pretending everyone is comparable.

As for Knuckles, the zone he and Super Sonic destroyed while fighting in Super Forms is a pocket zone of unknown size they found beneath a tree.

Chaos Emeralds are also tiny and a Zone exploding wouldn't scale to the full size of the explosion.

 

[00potato]

Yeah, I think you can ignore him and look for another staff member now.

 

[ElixirBlue]

Yeah, I think you can ignore him and look for another staff member now.

Hold on, this is his first time actually making an argument (weak as it is) so I want to respond to them.

 

[Theuser789]

You should ignore him because this is all derrail

 

[ElixirBlue]

Fine. I thought it wasn't derrailment and he had points but then I saw he claimed Sonic held back against Robotnik every time they fought in Base.

Just no. Gtg for now.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

Fine. I thought it wasn't derrailment and he had points but then I saw he claimed Sonic held back against Robotnik every time they fought in Base.

Sonic states he held back against Robotnik in Issue 175. It's accurate. When Sonic fights for real in that issue Eggman and Snively are both shook.

 

[ElixirBlue]

Funny, I can’t him saying that.

Oh, the Limit thing Eggman still reacts to by putting up his shield to where Sonic is charging at?

That doesn’t retcon Sonic wanting Robotnik dead or hurt in the other Base battles.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

Funny, I can’t him saying that.

Oh, the Limit thing Eggman still reacts to by putting up his shield to where Sonic is charging at?

It doen't retcon but it shows that Sonic wasn't at full power in any of their previous fights so scaling is out.