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The Ultimate Annihilator Revision Part 2 + Extra
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Blue has some good points, Overlanders scaling to Mobians seems pretty consistent to me. Especially since both Robotnik Prime and Eggman can apparently fight Sonic without relying too heavily on machines unlike most incarnations.
At the very least we can go with "8-C, possibly Low 2-C" for both Eggman/Robotnik Prime and the Swat Bots.
At the very least we can go with "8-C, possibly Low 2-C" for both Eggman/Robotnik Prime and the Swat Bots.
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What is the 8-C justification?
Heck, there is more justification for Low 2-C Robotnik than there is for 8-C.
Heck, there is more justification for Low 2-C Robotnik than there is for 8-C.
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Swat Bots surviving building sized explosions and Robotnik one-shotting them, as well as Robotnik surviving massive explosions and matching beings with comparable durability
And while I now agree with Low 2-C, I’m simply proposing Mike’s previous suggestion ("8-C, possibly Low 2-C") as an alternative in case no one else does.
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Building Size Explosions are taken as Range than Attack Potency in Archie. Those are Low 2-C Explosions, thanks to scaling. There are no Low 2-C anti-feats in the Archie comics for scaling, so the entire verse including Dumbells knocking Sonic out are Low 2-C.
Basically, in the entire comic, there was never a point a character was implied they couldn't survive Low 2-C attacks or beings.
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Fair points
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Also, shouldn’t you put these scans in the OP?It's not, because the Great War, Overlanders scale perfectly with Mobians.
Er, no, cause Robotnik's incorrect 8-C justification comes from the Swatbots. Other than that, he doesn't have justifications for 8-C.
Sonic Super Special issue 6 (The Writers have confirmed they consider this remake of issue 50 of the main book to be canon, as they ran out of time when making the original issue 50. Sonic Archives, the rerelease has Sonic Super Special issue 6 replacing the original, confirming it as a retcon):
Sonic the Hedgehog issue 157:
No, Sonic doesn't have a Harem in Archie. Eggman was just taunting him.
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Ok, I've written down the new justifications for the Miscellaneous section.
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Maybe scaling everyone to Low 2-C is obviously stupid and reliant on pretending that fodder don't exist.
Robotnik being physically Low 2-C is the most hilarious thing I ever heard. The SWATbots are literally made of steel and have been crushed by falling rocks and other such things. Low 2-C rocks?
They're big clankers who shoot lasers they don't have anything that justifies this ridiculous scaling.
Robotnik being physically Low 2-C is the most hilarious thing I ever heard. The SWATbots are literally made of steel and have been crushed by falling rocks and other such things. Low 2-C rocks?
They're big clankers who shoot lasers they don't have anything that justifies this ridiculous scaling.
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Yep, everything scales
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The fact that you unironically believe this shows everything wrong with the current profiles.
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I never found anything in the story that says otherwise. SWATbots and Robotnik scale for reasons in the OP. Here, I'll list some SWATbots feats in the thread.
Feats
- They were THE military force Robotnik used to conquer Planet Mobius. The Iron King even views Robotnik’s forces at the time the edge he needed for his own conquests
- A Shadow Bot caused King Maximilian to become crippled for a time
- Overwhelmed Sonic and the Freedom Fighters with Robotnik’s Operation Wasteland, a voice command for when Robotnik dies for good and someone uttered the key words
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Every single issue has anti-feats against your interpretation.
Those examples you showed are evidence against your supposed universal cast.
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Actually, that's the funny thing for why the entire verse scales to Low 2-C.
Because the story never treats the Base Cast, or anything in the verse, infinitely weaker than anything Low 2-C. The story treats Low 2-C things and beings as simply stronger than the Base Cast but not unreachable.
The only things the story constantly treated as unbelievably powerful to the Base Cast were the Super Forms and Chaos Gods, not anything Low 2-C.
Makes sense for a Chaos Emerald or its welder, to had never felt threaten by unrelated Low 2-C characters, when half of a Pre-Harmony Chaos Emerald created a Low 2-C space on accident. Ixis Naugus created the Zone of Silence, a Low 2-C space with Chaos Magic(no Chaos Emerald), and the only thing that made him special was that he was the last traditional Chaos Wizard, that Mammoth Mogul(creator of Ixis(Chaos) Magic) didn't think much of his power, while wielding his own, fully formed, Pre-Harmony Chaos Emerald in his chest.
Then those same wizards get beaten up by the Base Cast while being treated as stronger than them individually, and the story remembers those feats moving forward as it made sense to itself.
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TBF, this interpretation of Eggman isn’t human so it isn’t too farfetched. Overlanders seem to consistently scale to Mobians in general, and Archie Eggman is a member of this species.
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YOu just proved it again.
The Freedom Fighters aside from Rotor and Bunnie don't even have any feats that showcase anything beyond Tier 9 for the entire series. Sally is Low 2-C? She doesn't even have Tier 8 feats.
The Zone of Silence is stated to be a pocket zone and creation magic wouldn't scale to physicals.
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This applies to many, many, many, many Dragon Ball characters who haven't shown the feats you would be asking to see. Sally and Bunnie's feats would be from the scaling, like Dragon Ball.
(I think a gun went through Krillin's arm in Dragon Ball Super, but Dragon Ball's story actually treats guns as if they exist in our real world, unlike Archie's who treats random guns with no backstory capable of destroying magical gems that have other Mobians in another space & time, and then the Mobian is no longer "between Zones" when the gem is destroyed by said random gun(See Ray the Flying Squirrel's backstory))
Not sure how this quote proves your argument but I don't want to dwell on it. I can discuss the Zone of Silence in another thread when I get to it.
Anyway, this thread is only addressing the scaling feats Dr. Robotnik and SWATbots have in relation to other characters, to prove they aren't fodder that can't do anything to hurt the heroes, and to upgrade the Ultimate Annihilator's Range and Speed.
Thoughts about the Ultimate Annihilator at least?
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They regularly get threatened by things that are frankly not even Wall level. In every single fight they're in. Scaling in this case is fake.
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The logic you are trying to present is saying an Eggman mech can't destroy a Wall.
Again, this isn't a Verse thread. This is just a thread about the Ultimate Annihilator's upgrade + Eggman and SWATbots scaling to the verse, no matter what tier.
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If it doesn't have wall level feats why should it be?
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Don't care about the tier of the thread at hand but this is exactly why I hate DB being used as an example ever. DB has ki control as a thing to explain durability and AP shifts, it's why a tier 3 can slap around a tier 9 without killing them in-verse.
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Yeah using Dragon Ball is a fallacy and unlike Archie Sonic Dragon Ball acknowledges outliers on this wiki.
Archie Defenders try to argue everyone ever is Low 2-C.
Archie Defenders try to argue everyone ever is Low 2-C.
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It does in a certain context but stop derailing the thread.
And no, I don't have to prove something unrelated to the OP. That Robotnik and SWATbots scale to other profiles and the Ultimate Annihilator's upgrade.
Pls focus on the point of the OP. I think this is the 3rd time I've brought it up.
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You have to prove why characters with no feats above Tier 9 should scale to nonsense.
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Check the OP. Check Omega. Check Eggman consistently scaling to Sonic the entire comic with no anti-feat against Eggman scaling to Sonic.
Actually, Eggman does have Low 2-C scaling outside of Sonic, from the Chaos Emerald’s durability.
Note, they never said Chaos Emeralds were destroyed by the Universal Level + explosion, but the Zone itself collapsing from the explosion took the emeralds with it.
Even if you can calk up Sonic and Knuckles surviving to their Super Forms, the same cannot be said about the Chaos Emeralds, as Sonic and Knuckles don't keep their Emeralds (like, ever in the story after using them), except for the one Knuckles manage to keep.
And no, Knuckles wasn't protecting the Emerald from the explosion in his fist, as we can see his palms are open when the explosion happened.
Emeralds getting destroyed by Base Characters, who scale to other Low 2-C's, are consistent with the story.
Plus the fact Knuckles is stated to be a Living Chaos Emerald from his birth, and Chaos Knuckles is a form from Knuckles' powers growing out of control, by the Encyclopedia itself.
Living Chaos Emerald =/= 2-A.
2-A which Knuckles grows into. Chaos Emeralds alone don’t have any feats at 2-A but they do have the Low 2-C explosion feat for durability and Low 2-C Creation from creating a Zone from nothing.
Pls prove what is nonsense through the story's logic, not your own.
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Moving the Goal Post, are we?
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It's not moving the goalpost it's literally how something is or isn't an outlier.
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Let's talk about the evidence.
Edit: I'll be out of the country for the next week, so if there is a sudden influx of activity on this thread, I wouldn't be able to respond right away depending on whether I'm near WiFi or not.
Edit: I'll be out of the country for the next week, so if there is a sudden influx of activity on this thread, I wouldn't be able to respond right away depending on whether I'm near WiFi or not.
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I am not familiar with the powerscaling for Low 2-C so I am neutral on this matter, currently.
Willpower Restoration (The consequential effects from U.A.’s malfunction restored the will of the Robians underneath Robotnik’s control)
@Executor_N0 @ShakeResounding @ShadowWarrior1999 @CrimsonStarFallen what are you thought on the thread topic?
Matt, it would better for you to make a thread on the Low 2-C topic then continued since it is not a subject of the OP; it would be a better place also for you to discuss the topic.
Willpower Restoration (The consequential effects from U.A.’s malfunction restored the will of the Robians underneath Robotnik’s control)
- It sounds like technology manipulation since Robian looks to be robots; even, the feat looks to be from a malfunction so It not combat applicable.
- Correct me if I am wrong, I don't recall all the zones being valid universes; from what I know, some zones are accepted from additional contexts so it doesn't seem like infinite range is something that would happen, unless more contexts exist. A solid statement would be if zones were referred to as universes in context or universe were used rather than zone.
- If the range isn't accepted then speed isn't, also.
@Executor_N0 @ShakeResounding @ShadowWarrior1999 @CrimsonStarFallen what are you thought on the thread topic?
Matt, it would better for you to make a thread on the Low 2-C topic then continued since it is not a subject of the OP; it would be a better place also for you to discuss the topic.
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Don't have much of an opinion on this honestly. Would have to re-read Archie to get the context for everything again.
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Seems like it'd be a sort of mix between both Willpower Manip and Technology Manip, though Elizhaa is right about it being non-combat applicable regardless.
In a 2-A cosmology, I'm unsure is that would matter much anyways. But just to be clear" the vast majority of alternate Zones are indeed universes. Especially when we have statements of branching universes alongside infinite universes. Pocket dimensions and other such "Zones" not pertaining to universes are vastly outnumbered in showing and seem to actually be because of specific circumstances for each rather than naturally occurring within the verse. If needed, and if somebody else doesn't beat me to it, I'll get scans later.
Low 2-C isn't the topic of the thread, so let's not detail it. Save it for another one.
In a 2-A cosmology, I'm unsure is that would matter much anyways. But just to be clear" the vast majority of alternate Zones are indeed universes. Especially when we have statements of branching universes alongside infinite universes. Pocket dimensions and other such "Zones" not pertaining to universes are vastly outnumbered in showing and seem to actually be because of specific circumstances for each rather than naturally occurring within the verse. If needed, and if somebody else doesn't beat me to it, I'll get scans later.
Low 2-C isn't the topic of the thread, so let's not detail it. Save it for another one.
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It's stated that the term 'Zone' "usually refers to an alternate reality - an entire dimension", so I think Zone = universe is a fair assumption. Also, it's stated that the Ultimate Annihilator affected all Zones, with the context referring to the alternate universes/realities of the multiverse, an infinite amount. So Infinite range should be a given.
Not certain on the SWATbot stuff though.
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Willpower for the Ultimate Annihilator is indeed non-combat applicable.
But it is Willpower Restoration, as Archie is always referring to Robian’s Free Will being the thing effected and restored by other items.
As explained above (and in the 1st Ultimate Annihilator Revision), Zones are referred as Universal in size.
But even so, the scan in the OP also referred to the U.A. effecting the Multiverse, which is infinite in size.
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As for the scaling, people have yet to give arguments why SWATbots and Robotnik don’t scale to Sonic and the Cast despite the information I’ve provided, so I don’t have anymore to say at the moment.
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seems legit. idk why but this site is really strict on low 2-c compared to other tiers
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