The Stardust Crusader vs The Huntress-In-Training (8-0-0) (Grace)

[DaReaperMan]

What the shit?! Star Platinum ain't affected by speed Equalized?!

Technically Star Platinum would be if Jotaro was faster then his opponent in combat speed, but as it stands, Yang is the faster one here, even speed unequal doesn't help her case.

I think you are misinterpreting speed equalization. SP, Jotaro, and Yang would just be assumed to have the same combat speed and reactions but they can still do stuff their speed would normally allow them to do (like return from physical BFR or create afterimages and other stuff).

Jotaro has Superhuman combat speed. Yang would be equalized to this Superhuman combat speed. Jotaro's Massively FTL shit wouldn't be touched.

 

[DaReaperMan]

I just realized i made a stand pun and didn't catch it lol

 

[TheGunsFinalWrath]

Basically... Yang can't hit Jotaro because his reaction speeds are millions of times faster then her and his main thing is also millions of times faster.

Jotaro's about to start ducking and outskilling her.... by himself. Gg

 

[Livinmeme]

We can say that yang didnt STAND a chance

 

[TheGunsFinalWrath]

[https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/843562696048771082/853511992689033266/image0.jpg]
"1 For justice that seems invincible, take advantage of vital capacity. It was as if Enya was taken care of. → D 10 does not realize that you are alive with the beating of your heart. Stand ability that keeps growing! Until he learned of the existence of his stand, Jotaro himself called his ability a demon and let him run wild. [However, by gaining combat experience,] you will be able to control the stand freely, and by facing DI0, you will awaken to the ultimate "power to stop time". Perhaps the best thing about star platinum is its growth potential."

[https://media.discordapp.net/attach...8a918e808d5b587ac7ecd9b00e_e505b76c_540_1.jpg]

[https://media.discordapp.net/attach...12041758/1d04e93d32c857a4612e754421584413.jpg]



Here, you can see some insane precision feat, for a Coma'ed Jotaro, which is quite impressive, since he is ALSO not in his heyday either, in P6. P4 and P5 is like, > P6 Jotaro, due to age difference. So this is quite insane, and would greatly upscale P3 End Jotaro, even more so a Jotaro that is like, at his prime (Strongest Rage Amp)



But here ya can see SP basically move Jotaro to punch through some glass, which upon punching through, made them, somehow, scratch Jotaro in such a way to where on his arm, "Jolyne" was written. The Doctors are also implying/saying that he activated his stand, which upon summoning, SP did this shit for some unknown reason.

SP’s eyesight, reflexes, and strength control as SP is able to catch a microscopic stand with its fingers and not crush it and apply certain amounts of pressure. It was ALSO able to detect said Microscopic Stand, whilst unsummoned + Jotaro not being aware of its location at all, showcasing the fact that Star Platinum/SP has its own mind, and can act in cases where Jotaro himself is unable to, be it him being unconscious OR unaware of attacks, etc. Again, SP can also sense microscopic beings, in a 1 meter or higher radius around Jotaro, whilst having not finished its natural development potential. (As in, it has not developed fully or reached its full potential, so it's initial range of being able to detect microscopic sized beings, is definitely higher after Part 3. Basically his Heyday. Naturally, SP's range of detection is much more bigger when it comes to things that are MUCH more bigger than microscopic-sized beings, objects or projectiles or whatever, you get what I mean anyways.
[https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/866180302552563744/869631840686850108/image0.jpg]
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[https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/866180302552563744/869631841387315250/image2.jpg]


Jotaro, as I said, is quite clever. The dude is quite cautious cautious, he tricked another enemy stand user into revealing themselves when he writes his name wrong in the hotel sign up only for the enemy stand user to say what his actual name is even though nobody ever said it.
[https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/866180302552563744/869628653233897512/image0.jpg]
[https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/866180302552563744/869628653510725632/image1.jpg]
[https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/866180302552563744/869628653758193794/image2.jpg]

Precision feat: SP and Jotaro are very adaptive in combat situations. the enemy shoots glass shards at Jotaro, Jotaro summons SP to grab all the glass shards and use them as makeshift brass knuckles to immediately punch the enemy
[https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/866180302552563744/869619979924955136/image0.jpg]
[https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/866180302552563744/869619980277252146/image1.jpg]
Another Precision stuff: SP is very accurate with Star Finger, as it used that attack to ricochet button into the monkeys head
[https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/866180302552563744/869620941771137024/image0.jpg]
[https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/866180302552563744/869620942136025138/image1.jpg]
[https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/866180302552563744/869631840686850108/image0.jpg]

Star Platinum: Powerful,Precison, Incredible Strength
[https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/866180302552563744/869423260763299860/image0.jpg]

Jotaro uses SP to pull out a flesh bud from kakyoins head, something not even a skilled surgeon can do. The flesh bud starts making its way to Jotaro’s brain but Jotaro isn’t fazed, Jotaro and SP’s moves are more accurate than a machine, and SP hands don’t even shake from the pressure of the situation, then SP successfully removes the flesh bud
[https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/866180302552563744/869417725531930664/image0.jpg]
[https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/866180302552563744/869417725796175872/image1.jpg]
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[https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/866180302552563744/869417727394201660/image5.jpg]

Jotaro uses SP to draw a fly in the dark in a picture so accurately that it can actually be identified
[https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/866180302552563744/869422522414821376/image0.jpg]


Jotaro is > Others (Joseph, Avdol, Kakyoin and Polnareff) in intelligence)Araki seems to think that Jotaro could easily save them from D'Arby The Elder.
[https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/876151962943500339/895334410533085194/EFWlW-3X4AAHruM.jpg]
Reasons:
-Strategic cunning (Noteworthy for sure)
-Strong mental fortitude (Nothing special maybe)
-Battle of wits + being gutsy (Noteworthy)

"Who got turned into soul chips?!"
Araki: "Looking at these, you can easily imagine a story where Jotaro saves them all" (Kakyoin, Avdol, Polnareff and Joseph is there)


Jotaro in a fight is always preparing for what might happen, in this case Dio froze time and threw a bunch of knives at Jotaro, Jotaro gets hit by some of these knives in vital areas but it turns out he put layers of magazines in his hat and shirt to protect himself from dying. One Jotaro’s fighting strategies is to simply pretend to be dead and wait for the right moment
[https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/866180302552563744/869900634751635466/image0.jpg]
[https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/866180302552563744/869900635930238986/image1.jpg]
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[https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/866180302552563744/869900637566038016/image6.jpg]

SP is the same type of stand of Dio's The World, Jotaro could move in time stop not by speed but just having the same time Hax as Dio. Jotaro tricked Dio into believing that Jotaro was playing a magnet trick on him to disguise the fact he couldn’t move in time stop when he actually could just to lure Dio in and punch him through the chest
[https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/866180302552563744/869898821839257600/image0.jpg]
[https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/866180302552563744/869898822275452998/image1.jpg]
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[https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/866180302552563744/869898824385171466/image8.jpg]

Jotaro is able to catch a professional gambler cheating
[https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/866180302552563744/869892063754350622/image0.jpg]
[https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/866180302552563744/869892064110854184/image1.jpg]
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[https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/866180302552563744/869892065088122900/image4.jpg]

even under incredible heat and pressure, Jotaro was able to spot details in the environment to come to the conclusion that his opponent was using mirrors
[https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/866180302552563744/869633625044451348/image0.jpg]
[https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/866180302552563744/869633625325457418/image1.jpg]
[https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/866180302552563744/869633625564541028/image2.jpg]

Jotaro is an active problem solver in a fight, Jotaro needs to get an enemies attack off of his hand, Jotaro tries to burn it off and apply cold substances but neither works
[https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/866180302552563744/869622227706994698/image0.jpg]
[https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/866180302552563744/869622228176748564/image1.jpg]

Jotaro is very clever, he tricks an enemy stand user into revealing himself by bluffing that when stand users inhale smoke from his cigarette, blood vessels will show on their nose through their skin
[https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/866180302552563744/869613165577662595/image0.jpg]
[https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/866180302552563744/869613165946732544/image1.jpg]
[https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/866180302552563744/869613166211006514/image2.jpg]

This is all I have for now. Though, a reminder: In JoJo, literally almost every single stand user are clever. Ya need to be smart to even survive. Its not about Brute Force and shit. Anyways: I'll probs come back to this later with more scans.... Mostly skill-feats or whatever. Also

[] (Thanks to Chariot for giving me this, along with the translation. PS: Check the link for yourselves if you want to see the scan. I'm just highlighting the texts here)
["Unrivaled power and skill are proof of the strongest warrior!!".]

"The strongest Stand that combines unmatched speed, power and precise movement as 3 abilities. {Essentially, he excels at attacks that combine that above three properties,} {if he combines speed and precision, he can catch numerous flying knives one after another as shown in the battle with DIO.} In combination with speed and power, there is a special move called "Ora Ora" that has overwhelming destructive power. This ability also applies to each part of his body, and his tremendous suction power that defeated the fog Stand Justice, is a tribute to that power. {The eyesight is also precise, having found a fly in the background of Joseph's photograph, finding the whereabouts of DIO}. Its range is as short as 2m and its a Close-Distance Power Type, with special moves such as "Star Finger" or "Star Platinum: The World".


I think that I can find m o r e scans
......Im just posting it here just because ig.
Edit: nvm, thought that adding the [] would not show the contents, but nope.. oh well, doesnt matter anyways.

 

[Keeweed]

Technically Star Platinum would be if Jotaro was faster then his opponent in combat speed, but as it stands, Yang is the faster one here, even speed unequal doesn't help her case.

Jotaro has Superhuman combat speed. Yang would be equalized to this Superhuman combat speed. Jotaro's Massively FTL shit wouldn't be touched.

No it would be touched. The page says all speeds are equalized; and even if it worded it weirdly that’s what the rule is supposed to mean. Every speed equalizes to superhuman, the speed of his stand, the speed of Yang, and the speed of Jotaro.

If you shoot a subsonic gun at a superhuman character in a speed equalized fight, the superhuman character can dodge.

 

[DaReaperMan]

No it would be touched. The page says all speeds are equalized; and even if it worded it weirdly that’s what the rule is supposed to mean. Every speed equalizes to superhuman, the speed of his stand, the speed of Yang, and the speed of Jotaro.

If you shoot a subsonic gun at a superhuman character in a speed equalized fight, the superhuman character can dodge.

"The combat speed of that faster character is assumed to be equalized to the combat speed of the slower character. Every other speed the faster character has is reduced by the same multiplier. This includes the speed of any attacks, projectiles, reactions, perception, flight etc."

Its not "worded weirdly". It's specifically worded in such a way where the combat speeds are equalized and the speed of anything else the character has maintains the same multiplier over the character's combat speed it would have normally.

 

[Keeweed]

Well that should be reworded for scenarios exactly like this.

Star Platinum is Jotaro’s combat speed in 99% of scenarios. He doesn’t throw hands ever he uses Star Platinum. This isn’t like a human with a gun, this is Jotaro’s equivalence to throwing a punch.

Edit: I have a quiz to do soon. I’ll be back.

 

[DaReaperMan]

Well that should be reworded for scenarios exactly like this.

Star Platinum is Jotaro’s combat speed in 99% of scenarios. He doesn’t throw hands ever he uses Star Platinum. This isn’t like a human with a gun, this is Jotaro’s equivalence to throwing a punch.

Star Platinum is technically a seperate entity spawned from Jotaro's soul, its why there's another speed stat for it. It is not Jotaro physically, who's superhuman in speed. It is technically it's own being with it's own conscious.
"Multiple Selves (Type 2; Star Platinum is a spiritual entity derived from Jotaro's soul, with a conscious of its own, able to act in situations where Jotaro himself otherwise couldn't)" Right from his page.

 

[SemiRaedi]

Is it possible to just specify Yang is equalised to star platinum instead of Jotaro?

 

[DaReaperMan]

Is it possible to just specify Yang is equalised to star platinum instead of Jotaro?

Couldn't be added me thinks

 

[Keeweed]

Couldn't be added me thinks

I just realized why this was ridiculous to me.

Jotaro is the faster character, he has MFTL combat speed with Star Platinum (I.E the thing he always fights with).

No other Jojo thread has treated speed equalization like how you are trying to treat it. The speeds are equalized, that’s it, you don’t need to rules lawyer the speed equalization page. If it’s really a problem I’ll make a thread on it tomorrow.

 

[M3X_2.0]

It's kinda obvious that SP speed is equalized.

 

[DaReaperMan]

It's kinda obvious that SP speed is equalized.

Why would it be? Jotaro is the slower character here.

 

[Keeweed]

No he isn’t. Star Platinum is combat speed for him. It’s not an actual separate entity (in the sense of a versus thread). It’s his summon, it’s part of his combat speed.

 

[Scottycj256]

ig all of the matches where people use guns are speed blitzes since the actual opponents' speeds are being equalized and not the guns xd

 

[DaReaperMan]

I just realized why this was ridiculous to me.

Jotaro is the faster character, he has MFTL combat speed with Star Platinum (I.E the thing he always fights with).

No other Jojo thread has treated speed equalization like how you are trying to treat it. The speeds are equalized, that’s it, you don’t need to rules lawyer the speed equalization page. If it’s really a problem I’ll make a thread on it tomorrow.

Star Platinum is not named Jotaro Kujo. You know, the main guy Yang is fighting? He has Superhuman combat speeds. Just because he 99% doesn't fight with said combat speeds doesn't mean that his summon is also equalized just because he always fights with it outside of that one occasion with kid jotaro.

I'm not rules lawyering it, it's about as clear as the sun in the cloudless sky
"The combat speed of that faster character is assumed to be equalized to the combat speed of the slower character. Every other speed the faster character has is reduced by the same multiplier. This includes the speed of any attacks, projectiles, reactions, perception, flight etc."
Like, seriously, what is up for interpretation here? It literally says thst the combat speed is equalized and the rest of the speeds are reduced by the same multiplier. I don't see where "all speeds are equalized" comes from with thst description.

 

[Scottycj256]

you do realize that if Star Platinum cant be equalized then basically every single match up with guns or an attack faster than a person's base speed or a multiplier that makes a person faster will have to be invalidated

 

[Scottycj256]

also what that description means is that, if Jotaro has superhuman combat speed, everything else he has gets equalized to superhuman speed, same with Yang's combat speed

That's what "they get reduced by the same multiplier" means

 

[DaReaperMan]

you do realize that if Star Platinum cant be equalized then basically every single match up with guns or a multiplier that makes a person faster will have to be invalidated

I do. Though IIRC most matches with guns are who shoots first, most stand user matches from JoJo and other summons are kinda ****** tho. Plus guns are usually attack speed and nothing more.

 

[DaReaperMan]

also what that description means is that, if Jotaro has superhuman combat speed, everything else he has gets equalized to superhuman speed, same with Yang's combat speed

Yang is Hypersonic. That is just a little faster then superhuman don't you think?

 

[Scottycj256]

yes

????????????????

She still becomes superhuman in speed, and Star Platinum becomes superhuman in speed too

 

[Scottycj256]

why the **** are we having this argument about speed equalization, the match already ended

 

[DaReaperMan]

yes

????????????????

She still becomes superhuman in speed, and Star Platinum becomes superhuman in speed too

Let me break down why what your saying is wrong:

1. Jotaro is the one fighting, he summons Star Platinum as his first move, which is thought-based.

2. Where the confusion lies is that, as due to the rule of its actually the summoner fighting, it's Jotaro fighting first and foremost, not Star Platinum, as such the farmer's combat speed would be used in speed equal, not the ladder's.

 

[DaReaperMan]

I just realized those two points could easily be combined/are the same, sorry for the inconvenience on that end, kinda dumb lol

 

[Agnaa]

also what that description means is that, if Jotaro has superhuman combat speed, everything else he has gets equalized to superhuman speed, same with Yang's combat speed

That's what "they get reduced by the same multiplier" means

No lmao. It means that if Jotaro's combat speed needs to be reduced by 10x for speed equalization, all his other speeds get reduced 10x as well. SoL attacks get changed to 0.1c attacks.

Speed equalization does not make every different speed statistic a character has the same.

"But this invalidates matches with guns!"

No it actually makes them fair, if bullet speed was the exact same as a character's combat speed the bullets would never land.

"But the other matches don't work like that!"

They should be removed too, in accordance with our site rules.

 

[Keeweed]

Star Platinum is part of Jotaro. It’s literally his fighting spirit or soul. This isn’t a completely unrelated disconnected entity he is summoning. Even if it was its speed would just be equalized because it’s a speed equalized match.

I’ll make a thread to change to wording on the page if it is really necessary because it means every speed gets changed to the lowest speed. If it didn’t speed equalization would be completely pointless.

 

[Agnaa]

@Keeweed This isn't a bug, the Speed Equalization page was changed from a vague "everything's the same speed" to these more precise rules for a reason.

EDIT: For reference, here's the thread where these rules were decided.

 

[DaReaperMan]

Honestly I will say this, I hate to be right.

Star Platinum is part of Jotaro. It’s literally his fighting spirit or soul. This isn’t a completely unrelated disconnected entity he is summoning. Even if it was its speed would just be equalized because it’s a speed equalized match.

I’ll make a thread to change to wording on the page if it is really necessary because it means every speed gets changed to the lowest speed. If it didn’t speed equalization would be completely pointless.

Think about it like this: what would take precedence? Jotaro's physical form combat speed, or his soul's?

 

[Keeweed]

Well these rules break majority of the fights on this site.

But going purely for summons since that’s what we are referring to here.

That means summons don’t get equalized or at least don’t get equalized properly anymore. So Pokémon and Digimon I guess always blitzs because the opponent will always equalize to the normal human trainers (in combat speed anyways) versus the FTL and Immeasurable Pokémon or Digimon.

Despite the entire purpose of these matches for the opponents to be fighting the summons to get to the summoners.

I can think of many more things this breaks, but it is very late where I live. Even for the ones this won’t mess with literally no versus thread I’ve been in for years has treated speed equalization this way so practically every fight on this site would need to be remade.

Also again it is super late. I’ll just make a thread tomorrow.

 

[Agnaa]

Equalizing it your way would mean that the normal human trainers would be able to dodge attacks that they'd usually need their summons to intercept for them, changing fights from how they play out canonically. A good strategy against a summoner is to take out the summoner, since they're often weaker/slower than their creations. Having them be able to dodge everything and having no attack able to blitz them is kinda wack.

This rule was implemented just under a year ago, so it makes sense that there's lots of threads not abiding by it. They don't have to be redone, they can just be removed if their outcome would be changed.

 

[Chariot190]

Does this even matter? Whether SP is as fast or ten billion times faster doesn't matter much in regards to this match in particular, if we're using High 8-C Jotaro, he has time stop, which may as well serve the exact same purpose as being able to land a bajillion blows or whatever.

 

[DaReaperMan]

Well these rules break majority of the fights on this site.

But going purely for summons since that’s what we are referring to here.

That means summons don’t get equalized or at least don’t get equalized properly anymore. So Pokémon and Digimon I guess always blitzs because the opponent will always equalize to the normal human trainers (in combat speed anyways) versus the FTL and Immeasurable Pokémon or Digimon.

Despite the entire purpose of these matches for the opponents to be fighting the summons to get to the summoners.

I can think of many more things this breaks, but it is very late where I live. Even for the ones this won’t mess with literally no versus thread I’ve been in for years has treated speed equalization this way so practically every fight on this site would need to be remade.

Also again it is super late. I’ll just make a thread tomorrow.

Looking at Pokémon Red's profile kinda confused me on this, I'm 99% sure it was decided as a rule at some point that it would be the summoner fighting, not the summons, but his is formatted in such a way where it would seem the other way around.

But the only fights broken are those where one or more characters have reaction speed/attacks grossly disproportionate to their other speeds. Which IIRC isn't all that many characters

Does this even matter? Whether SP is as fast or ten billion times faster doesn't matter much in regards to this match in particular, if we're using High 8-C Jotaro, he has time stop, which may as well serve the exact same purpose as being able to land a bajillion blows or whatever.

We aren't, we're using 8-C jotaro I think

Equalizing it your way would mean that the normal human trainers would be able to dodge attacks that they'd usually need their summons to intercept for them, changing fights from how they play out canonically. A good strategy against a summoner is to take out the summoner, since they're often weaker/slower than their creations. Having them be able to dodge everything and having no attack able to blitz them is kinda wack.

This rule was implemented just under a year ago, so it makes sense that there's lots of threads not abiding by it. They don't have to be redone, they can just be removed if their outcome would be changed.

Thing is about 99% of summoners have reactions proportional to what they summon, and sometimes actually dodge shit via said reactions... so... I dunno.

 

[Keeweed]

To make my point clearer.

Person A has normal human combat speed. His summon is 1000 times faster.

His opponent is 10 times faster. With this rule the summon will still be 100 times faster than the opponent in a speed equalized match, despite the entire point of the match to be whether the character can defeat the summon to kill the user.

Jojo, Pokémon, Digimon, and many more become literally unusable because the summon will always be like a thousand times faster than everyone else.

The entire point of speed equalization is so a character can keep up with someone they shouldn’t be able too. If them dodging is wack then speed equalization in and of itself shouldn’t even be a thing. Of course a MFTL character blitz a human level character, that’s why speed equalization exist in the first place, so they don’t get blitzed.

 

[Keeweed]

“Thing is about 99% of summoners have reactions proportional to what they summon, and sometimes actually dodge shit via said reactions... so... I dunno.”

Reactions, not combat speed. Jotaro has comparable reactions to Star Platinum, but you were calling him the slower character.

 

[DaReaperMan]

Really depends on the character from JoJo, cause characters like DIO have speeds close to their summons

“Thing is about 99% of summoners have reactions proportional to what they summon, and sometimes actually dodge shit via said reactions... so... I dunno.”

Reactions, not combat speed. Jotaro has comparable reactions to Star Platinum, but you were calling him the slower character.

Correct, jotaro has reactions on par with Star Platinum. But his combat speed on his page is superhuman. Unless I'm missing something cause the feat looks to be travel speed, but I'm pretty sure most Jojo profiles are kinda bad

 

[DaReaperMan]

"Superhuman (Ran approximately 400 meters in 22 seconds[12]) with Massively FTL reactions (Reacted to The World. Was stated to be able to keep up with the light-speed Red Hot Chili Pepper in his later years[13]. Reacted to the Emerald Splash[14], Justice's undead[15], summoned his Stand to catch glass[16] and many more)."

This is the speed for Jotaro from his page, like I said, the feat looks like it's travel speed, but we could calc Kid Jotaro's Ora Ora and upscale adult jotaro from that

 

[Keeweed]

The exceptions don’t matter here too much. My problem with it is that we’ve over complicated speed equalization so much that it’s completely worthless a large chunk of the time. If anyone has faster attack speed then combat speed (most characters) they can shoot the opponent before they can do anything, which defeats the entire purpose of speed equalization to begin with.

I quoted your thing for the really reason you just commented (second to last comment). Reactions don’t matter to the new speed equalization stuff (which is really dumb to me), it’s based off combat speed. So the summons won’t be equalized properly (also your reactions won’t either if I’m reading that right).

 

[Chariot190]

Jotaro has comparable reactions to Star Platinum, but you were calling him the slower character.

He actually is slower, he's in the same general ballpark (in reactions) and he can indeed react, but it ain't 1:1.

cause characters like DIO have speeds close to their summons

This is also true, ******* like DIO are in the same ballpark as his Stand in almost all regards.

Though the opposite is also sometimes true, sometimes the main body is faster, there's definitely some garbage stands who have ass speed, like Fun Fun Fun, what a travesty that thing is holy shit.

 

[Chariot190]

This is the speed for Jotaro from his page, like I said, the feat looks like it's travel speed, but we could calc Kid Jotaro's Ora Ora and upscale adult jotaro from that

It was travel speed, but good point.
Say no more, I'll get on calcing it sometime in the next 24h.