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Introductio
So this is a long time coming.
For the longest time I've had numerous issues with how this wiki handles the concept of Omnipotence and how it applies to fictional characters through Tier 0, or "Questionably Omnipotent".
I have come to observe that the wiki suffers from several instances of double standards when it comes to the Tier, and how superflous it really is in relation to the tiering system. And as such I believe it should be removed.
But let's go one step at a time, and explain each individual problem I have with the Tier and how it's handled, shall we?
Tier 0 Definitio
First, let's define Tier 0. To quote the Tiering System page...
Sounds simple enough, right? Tier 0 is for beings which are supreme and boundless and transcendental in their verses.
However, Tier 0's are not omnipotent, which is already expressed by how we classify such characters and the Omnipotence page itself. This means we understand how Omnipotence can't exist in fiction and how these characters shouldn't be held to Omnipotent status.
Right?
Well, no. This notion is entirely contradicted by the High 1-A Tier, which is for characters who are so above the regular parameters for 1-A that they are essentially supreme and transcendent themselves, and would easily qualify for Tier 0 if not for this or that limitation, or a higher being yet in the verse.
At a first glance this seems okay, but quick observations reveal a severe crack in the system. Namely, that there is no real qualitative difference between High 1-A and 0.
Superfluousness of Tier 0
So High 1-A and Tier 0 are functionally identical, and the former is only really used when there is a higher being in the verse which will be Tier 0, or when an otherwise a being who perfectly qualifies for Tier 0 demonstrates the tiniest, most minute limitation conceivable.
This manifests in the form of characters who power-wise qualify for Tier 0... But don't demonstrate Omnipresence or Omniscience. Or are appear to have an origin point. Or have any matter of personality or agency.
We see this time and again. Tier 0 usually gets reserved for super vague, uninteresting Supreme Beings who conform to western notions of a Monotheistic Omnipotent God, while more original Supreme Beings get relegated to High 1-A. Even though Attack Potency / Tiering wise they are functionally the same.
This is why The One Above All is Tier 0 and the Law of Identity is High 1-A. The former isn't more powerful than the later. Not at all. They fulfill similar roles and have similar levels of described supremacy over their respective verses. But because the former is a literal God with Capital G, and the later looks like a cute schoolgirl and admits to "Not know everything", she is perceived as weaker.
This is obviously not the case. In fact the Tiering System currently admits that a High 1-A from one verse can be "stronger" than another Verse's Tier 0...
Wait, so why the hell are they separate?
Contradictions in the System
We both simultaneously acknowledge that a High 1-A can be "stronger" than a Tier 0, while also banning all High 1-A and Tier 0 matches because "It's impossible to define which is more powerful at such a level".
These are two diametrically opposite ideas which cannot coincide. Either Tier 0 is above Tier High 1-A due to being higher, as thus worthy of the title of "Absolute Infinity", or they are so similar that it is impossible to differentiate and determine which is stronger.
It's clearly not the former as High 1-A only exists as a middle-ground between the more traditional supreme Tier 0s, and things which would either qualify as Tier 0 if not for a stronger being (Like Yog-Sothoth), or would be Tier 0 if not for a minor limitation (Like the Law of Identity)...
But again, this notion is completely contradicted by the admittance that a High 1-A can be more powerful than a Tier 0 of another verse. And the notion that lacking in Omnipresence or Omniscience can remove your Tier 0 is addressed in the Omnipotence page itself. To quote:
"raw power and stature do not necessarily carry over to the complete versatility of omnipotence"
So Tier 0 is not about the complete versatility of Omnipotence, it's about raw power which places you above all hierarchies... But then this is clearly not how we treat Tier 0 depending on the Verse. The approach is super inconsistent because people naturally perceive Tier 0 as the "Omnipotent Tier", and every perceived limitation is viewed as a reason to downgrade it.
I could go on, but I think I made a case for the various issues with Tier 0 and the inconsistencies.
So what exactly is my plan to fix it? Simple: Merge the two tiers.
Merging Tier 0 with High 1-A
Think about it...
As such, High 1-A and 0 have really no business being separate. They should be merged into one Tier, as they would more elegantly express the level of hierarchical supremacy and power they handle, and end the contradictions and double standards that come with the "Questionable Omnipotence" of Tier 0.
Either make all Tier 0s High 1-As, or remove High 1-A and make all High 1-As Tier 0, but removing the "Questionable Omnipotence" power.
Both work, and can be done incredibly easily as a result of the small number of such profiles.
Note: Staff Only
So this is a long time coming.
For the longest time I've had numerous issues with how this wiki handles the concept of Omnipotence and how it applies to fictional characters through Tier 0, or "Questionably Omnipotent".
I have come to observe that the wiki suffers from several instances of double standards when it comes to the Tier, and how superflous it really is in relation to the tiering system. And as such I believe it should be removed.
But let's go one step at a time, and explain each individual problem I have with the Tier and how it's handled, shall we?
Tier 0 Definitio
First, let's define Tier 0. To quote the Tiering System page...
| Beings that are boundlessly above absolutely everything, including existence and nonexistence, possibility, causality, dualism and transdualism, the concepts of life and death, and their analogues at any level. |
Sounds simple enough, right? Tier 0 is for beings which are supreme and boundless and transcendental in their verses.
However, Tier 0's are not omnipotent, which is already expressed by how we classify such characters and the Omnipotence page itself. This means we understand how Omnipotence can't exist in fiction and how these characters shouldn't be held to Omnipotent status.
Right?
Well, no. This notion is entirely contradicted by the High 1-A Tier, which is for characters who are so above the regular parameters for 1-A that they are essentially supreme and transcendent themselves, and would easily qualify for Tier 0 if not for this or that limitation, or a higher being yet in the verse.
At a first glance this seems okay, but quick observations reveal a severe crack in the system. Namely, that there is no real qualitative difference between High 1-A and 0.
Superfluousness of Tier 0
So High 1-A and Tier 0 are functionally identical, and the former is only really used when there is a higher being in the verse which will be Tier 0, or when an otherwise a being who perfectly qualifies for Tier 0 demonstrates the tiniest, most minute limitation conceivable.
This manifests in the form of characters who power-wise qualify for Tier 0... But don't demonstrate Omnipresence or Omniscience. Or are appear to have an origin point. Or have any matter of personality or agency.
We see this time and again. Tier 0 usually gets reserved for super vague, uninteresting Supreme Beings who conform to western notions of a Monotheistic Omnipotent God, while more original Supreme Beings get relegated to High 1-A. Even though Attack Potency / Tiering wise they are functionally the same.
This is why The One Above All is Tier 0 and the Law of Identity is High 1-A. The former isn't more powerful than the later. Not at all. They fulfill similar roles and have similar levels of described supremacy over their respective verses. But because the former is a literal God with Capital G, and the later looks like a cute schoolgirl and admits to "Not know everything", she is perceived as weaker.
This is obviously not the case. In fact the Tiering System currently admits that a High 1-A from one verse can be "stronger" than another Verse's Tier 0...
Wait, so why the hell are they separate?
Contradictions in the System
We both simultaneously acknowledge that a High 1-A can be "stronger" than a Tier 0, while also banning all High 1-A and Tier 0 matches because "It's impossible to define which is more powerful at such a level".
These are two diametrically opposite ideas which cannot coincide. Either Tier 0 is above Tier High 1-A due to being higher, as thus worthy of the title of "Absolute Infinity", or they are so similar that it is impossible to differentiate and determine which is stronger.
It's clearly not the former as High 1-A only exists as a middle-ground between the more traditional supreme Tier 0s, and things which would either qualify as Tier 0 if not for a stronger being (Like Yog-Sothoth), or would be Tier 0 if not for a minor limitation (Like the Law of Identity)...
But again, this notion is completely contradicted by the admittance that a High 1-A can be more powerful than a Tier 0 of another verse. And the notion that lacking in Omnipresence or Omniscience can remove your Tier 0 is addressed in the Omnipotence page itself. To quote:
| In addition, our system is built on hierarchies, with tier 0 defined as possessing absolute transcendence above all other beings within the system, but raw power and stature do not necessarily carry over to the complete versatility of omnipotence. |
So Tier 0 is not about the complete versatility of Omnipotence, it's about raw power which places you above all hierarchies... But then this is clearly not how we treat Tier 0 depending on the Verse. The approach is super inconsistent because people naturally perceive Tier 0 as the "Omnipotent Tier", and every perceived limitation is viewed as a reason to downgrade it.
I could go on, but I think I made a case for the various issues with Tier 0 and the inconsistencies.
So what exactly is my plan to fix it? Simple: Merge the two tiers.
Merging Tier 0 with High 1-A
Think about it...
- We describe as High 1-A as something that would be Tier 0 if not for a more powerful thing, or a minor limitation
- We state that it is nearly impossible to compare a Tier 0 from one verse with High 1-As of another due to how high and vague the powers handled in the Tiers are.
- We also - paradoxically - Admit that a High 1-A could be stronger than a Tier 0 of another verse...
- ... But they don't get Tier 0 due to not conforming t set standards, such as having an equal opposite being, or lacking Omniscience.
As such, High 1-A and 0 have really no business being separate. They should be merged into one Tier, as they would more elegantly express the level of hierarchical supremacy and power they handle, and end the contradictions and double standards that come with the "Questionable Omnipotence" of Tier 0.
Either make all Tier 0s High 1-As, or remove High 1-A and make all High 1-As Tier 0, but removing the "Questionable Omnipotence" power.
Both work, and can be done incredibly easily as a result of the small number of such profiles.
Note: Staff Only
