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The problems regarding the Classroom of the Elite/Youkoso Jitsuryoku Shijou Shugi no Kyoushitsu e verse

RoggerReggor

He/Him
2,301
881
Alright, so I am going to be very clear in this one, I am not targeting anyone specifically in this thing, I have heard that this was discussed in a CRT before, and I am just going to state some more things which I say. As an active supporter of the verse, I think this needs to be cleared.

Feats Priority:
This is not a problem which I have faced a lot, but I have. The verse is a combination of feats from these sources:
  • Classroom of the Elite Light Novel (original work by Shougo Kinugasa)
  • Classroom of the Elite Manga (original work by Shougo Kinugasa)
  • Classroom of the Elite Anime (adapted from Classroom of the Elite Light Novel by Lerche studios till now)
As we are accumulating feats from everything, I think it would be better if we follow this order:
Light Novel feats > Anime feats = Manga feats

That is, the Light Novel would hold the most importance, for example, the feats like running an unspecified distance, destroying an object with unspecified area/volume, being able to perform stuff.
The other sources like anime and manga should only be used for measurements, likely for finding the measurements of an unspecified distance, area, volume, etc. in the light novel, and only for measurements through pixel scaling. It is also important to note that if the light novel says that someone got blitzed at a distance of 5 meters, and the manga/anime gives the pixel-scaled distance to lower or higher, still, we will only see the 5 m distance, not a distance which is higher or lower through the pixel-scale (it is also important to note that this will only be applied to the feats which are already in a light novel, and at least adapted into the manga or the anime. e.g. Ibuki bending the insides of an elevator cannot have assumed distances, so it's likely to scale the distances through an anime or manga adaptation rather than just assuming from a manga or an anime).

Feats which are "onlies', like anime-only, manga-only or light novel-only, should have their own importance. Feats which happened only in anime or manga but not in the light novel should still be considered canon. We aren't having a "Classroom of the Elite (Anime)", "Classroom of the Elite (Manga)", and that kind of stuff. The verse is an accumulation of all the feats, so I think it would be best in that case. Unless the verse gets a "live-action", we don't need to make a different verse page, I guess so (e.g. Ryuuen threw sectional metals in the anime adaptation, but it is not shown in the light novel, so, it shouldn't be rejected on that basis).

Agree (4): @Clout5560, @Idc.violet, @Emirccan, @DeltaStriker22
Disagree (0):
Inconclusive (0):



Flowery Language:
There is a feat in Volume 6 of the Year 2 arc, in which, Housen is said to serve a tennis ball at literal bullet speeds. This feat received so much of criticism that the many feats of the verse were pointed out to be "flowery language", that is, metaphors and hyperboles, but today, I am going to say why that feat alone shouldn't be responsible for it.

Also, the feat can even supersonic+, as I calculated it here. If the calc gets accepted, it would be clear that the author was indeed not using any kind of flowery language in this one. Also, whenever I have seen people give examples of flowery language, they mostly mention the bullet speed feat, not many other feats have the same stuff, and some are genuinely not intended for it.

It is really frustrating to be a supporter of the verse and see calcs getting rejected and the explanation for the rejection is "flowery language". The thing regarding this is that people should actually not consider everything as "flowery language", because it is just like opposing the verse for no reason and considering everything as something which is not even meant for it. So, it would be better to make a CRT and then consider something as applicable or not.

Edit: My concern about this point is not me saying that the verse has no flowery language, it maybe would have, even Captain America once said, "I can do this all day." and stuff like that doesn't give him more stamina directly, but Captain America's words were statements, while Classroom of the Elite has feats too, which should not qualify under flowery language under speculations and assumptions.
 
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I agree with feats priorities. However the second part is a little off. Imo I don’t care about the rating of the feats since feats like that are just interpretation based.

I have arguments for it being valid and arguments for it not being valid.
 
I agree with feats priorities. However the second part is a little off. Imo I don’t care about the rating of the feats since feats like that are just interpretation based.

I have arguments for it being valid and arguments for it not being valid.
Basically, I am trying to say that stuff like whether it is "flowery language" or not should be discussed in a CRT, while not arguing with staff and the other people. CRTs are for that purpose only. It would be better to do it in a CRT rather than a post comment.

And I will count your agreement for the first one.
 
I agree with the feats priorities. From a canonical point of view, LN > Anime and manga. if the distances and scales in the anime do not match the ones in the novel, the novel should take precedence every time.

Flowery Language part depends on the person's interpretation. of course, I definitely do not support making this argument just to deny feat, but tennis feat is still very likely to be flowery language. and controversial feats are often not accepted
 
I totally agree with the first one.
The flowery language is debatable, but for every success there are too many people who use it and try to reject it, and it just doesn't make sense.
but although there are those who call it a flowery language, arguments are also given to support the success in cote a bit.
 
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I agree with the feats priorities. From a canonical point of view, LN > Anime and manga. if the distances and scales in the anime do not match the ones in the novel, the novel should take precedence every time.
Counted your agreement.
Flowery Language part depends on the person's interpretation. of course, I definitely do not support making this argument just to deny feat, but tennis feat is still very likely to be flowery language. and controversial feats are often not accepted
Besides tennis feat, which other feat do you think has that kind of language? Recently, people were criticizing on two of my calcs saying that the verse had a lot of "flowery language" so those feats couldn't get accepted. 😭 Like, why they even have the audacity to do something like that?
 
Son doğumlar, insanların iki hesabını kabul ediyor, ayetin çok fazla "süslü dil" eksikliğini ve bu nedenle bu başarıların edilemeyeceğini söylüyorlardı. 😭Mesela, neden böyle bir şey yapmaya cüret ediyorlar?
I can still understand the flowery language speakers for housen calc but there were claimants to see flowery language for sudou calc, this is really ridiculous
 
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Besides tennis feat, which other feat do you think has that kind of language?
just punching the air. if there is a feat that I have not seen before, my interpretation at that time indicates it. but I don't think there has been any feat with flowery language so far.
Recently, people were criticizing on two of my calcs saying that the verse had a lot of "flowery language" so those feats couldn't get accepted. 😭 Like, why they even have the audacity to do something like that?
they have no reason. a neutral person accepts this feat. it is literally stated that the desk was smashed.

"There was a huge crashing sound. A desk flew through the air and splintered on the ground after being kicked."

Yes, he smashed the desk with a kick. a big crashing sound was heard and pieces of the desk flew into the air but this flowery lang. he didn't actually kick the desk blablalab lmaoo

this shit is the most ridiculous counter argument I've ever heard

no offense to them, but it's completely stupid to call it a flowery language
 
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I totally agree with the first one.
Counted.
The flowering language is debatable, but for every success there are too many people who use it and try to reject it, and it just doesn't make sense.
but although there are those who call it a flowering language, arguments are also given to support the success in cote a bit.
Agreed, your point is exactly my point. But about the flowery language stuff, I think even highly specific stuff is literally "flowery language" lmao.
Sudou splintering a desk is flowery language, Ichika basically creating a loud sound which is able to echo in a forest is flowery language for people.
 
Housen calc için süslü dil söyleyenleri hala anlayabiliyorum ama sudou calc için süslü dil kullandığını iddia edenler vardı, bu gerçekten çok saçma
I cannot read this language. But I believe you are trying to talk about Sudou's feat (using Google translate, yes, it is ridiculous lol, highly specific things shouldn't be flowery language.
 
I cannot read this language. But I believe you are trying to talk about Sudou's feat (using Google translate, yes, it is ridiculous lol, highly specific things shouldn't be flowery language.
I forgot to translate the sentence lol 🗿

And yes, the success of sudou is too clear to be a flowery language.
so at this point it wouldn't make sense to try to refute it with this argument.
 
actually i'm not sure about that. Camera angle and animation can be a problem.
I think the illustration with Shiba-Housen-nanase shows this more clearly.
(sorry for bad English)
Nah, it gives a much lower. A top angle is finer.

See this:
QNpDlQN.png


Earlier, it was 0.192003837 m, now, it is 0.366942308 m, it increases the result by a lot lol.
 
Nah, it gives a much lower. A top angle is finer.

See this:
QNpDlQN.png


Earlier, it was 0.192003837 m, now, it is 0.366942308 m, it increases the result by a lot lol.
dude this result is really high 🗿

maybe it can be rejected because the result is high. Still, I think the feat is obvious.

but i don't know 🤷
 
dude this result is really high 🗿

maybe it can be rejected because the result is high. Still, I think the feat is obvious.

but i don't know 🤷
Exactly, they cannot disagree lol.
and also sudou should be mid-high for verse in terms of strength too
roughly in the top 15
In ANHS, maybe he might be very high. In the entire verse, he is very less.
According to me:
High:
1. Ayanokouji Kiyotaka
2. Shirou (Statements-only)
3. Yuuki (Statements-only)
4. Yagami Takuya
5. Shiba Katsunori
6. Tsukishiro Tokinari
7. Ichika Amasawa
Mid-high:
8. Housen Kazuomi
9. Manabu Horikita (Statements + Comparability)
10/11. Fuuka Kiryuuin
10/11. Nanase Tsubasa
Mid:
12. Albert Yamada
13/14. Ryuuen Kakeru
13/14. Sudou (possibly not here)
Low-mid:
14/15: Sudou (he can possibly be here)
15/16: Suzune Horikita (Don't show up at my house, Ibuki is not stronger than Suzune. She fought on par with Ibuki while she had fever and very less energy and also has a higher OAA.)

Honorable mentions who can get to this list but have lesser statements/feats: Hayato Kitou (he can possibly stronger than even Ryuuen), Hashimoto (possibly higher than Suzune)

Mentions who can be lower in this list: Shirou and Yuuki, but I think they should be above Yagami and Ichika, so most likely not.

(Also, not including Koenji because it would be unfair for Ayanokouji to experience a fight against the pinnacle of masculinity. 🗿 )
 
Kesinlikle, aynı fikirde olamazlar lo.

ANHS'de belki çok yüksek olabilir. Ayetin tamamında o çok azdır.
Bana göre:
Yüksek:
1. Ayanokouji Kiyotaka
2. Shirou (yalnızca ifadeler)
3. Yuuki (Yalnızca Açıklamalar)
4. Yagami Takuya
5. Shiba Katsunori
6. Tsukishiro Tokinari
7. İçika Amasawa
Orta yüksek:
8. House'dan Kazuomi
9. Manabu Horikita (İfadeler + Karşılaştırılabilirlik)
10/11.
10/11.
Orta:
12. Albert Yamada
13/14.
13/14. Sudou (muhtemelen burada değil)
Düşük orta:
14/15: Sudou (burada olabilir)
15/16: Suzune Horikita (Evime gelme, Ibuki Suzune'den daha güçlü değil. Ibuki'nin ateşi ve çok az enerjisi varken ve aynı zamanda daha yüksek OAA'ya sahipken onunla eşit düzeyde savaştı.)

Bu listeye girebilen ancak daha az ifadeye/beceriye sahip olan saygın kişiler: Hayato Kitou (muhtemelen Ryuuen'den bile daha güçlü olabilir), Hashimoto (muhtemelen Suzune'den daha yüksek)

Bu listede kimlerin daha aşağıda olabileceğinden bahsediliyor: Shirou ve Yuuki, ama bence Yagami ve Ichika'nın üzerinde olmalılar, bu yüzden büyük olasılıkla değiller.

(Ayrıca Ayanokouji'nin erkekliğin zirvesine karşı bir mücadele yaşaması haksızlık olacağı için Koenji'yi dahil etmiyorum. 🗿 )
i remembered the existence of riku not added here lol
riku can be compared to housen.

I think sudou is ahead of ryuuen because ryuuen is a little beware of him and ayanokoji has good expressions for sudou.

Even if the sudou is not mid-high level, it is guaranteed to be mid level
 
i remembered the existence of riku not added here lol
riku can be compared to housen.
Housen likely didn't try to slap Riku harder. And still, it's an LS feat lol, because Riku was opposing the pressure, not the energy. But still, the places after Manabu and possibly even Nanase would get shifted down lol, so Sudou probably doesn't even make up for this list xD.

Hot take:
In a h2h, Riku solos Sudou 😏
I think sudou is ahead of ryuuen because ryuuen is a little beware of him and ayanokoji has good expressions for sudou.

Even if the sudou is not mid-high level, it is guaranteed to be mid level
Sudou has more lifting strength than Ryuuen and I accept that. But more AP? It's debatable. Also, it was said that Ishizaki could fight against Sudou, by Horikita herself. And Sudou performed this feat in the same volume as the feat, so lol, Ryuuen is likely higher.
 
Housen muhtemelen Riku'ya daha sert tokat atmaya çalışmadı. Ve yine de, bu bir LS başarısı, çünkü Riku enerjiye değil, baskıya karşı çıkıyordu. Ama yine de, Manabu'dan ve hatta muhtemelen Nanase'den sonraki yerler aşağı kaydırılırdı, yani Sudou muhtemelen bu listeyi bile oluşturmuyor xD.
yes more LS success but still i think riku is at least comparable to housen.

dude, it was enough for housen to grab his arm to pull back 🗿
 
+ If I'm not mistaken, ayanokoji once said that even Ryuuen avoids fighting with Sudou.
As AP it should probably be comparable.
 
Real, Riku bir kavgada Sudou'yu ve Ayanokouji'yi "uzun saçlı yakışıklılıkta" sololar.
dude must be a riku mid-high level character. no feat but that's probably the case. I think it might even be above Housen.
so sudou is not a competitor for riku.
 
+ If I'm not mistaken, ayanokoji once said that even Ryuuen avoids fighting with Sudou.
As AP it should probably be comparable.
I remember too, Ayanokouji said it in a situation where Sudou had carelessly done something. Sudou had been careless and almost reached to the point of expulsion. Ryuuen likely said it because he would have gotten injured but not fight back just from the fear of an expulsion.
 
I remember too, Ayanokouji said it in a situation where Sudou had carelessly done something. Sudou had been careless and almost reached to the point of expulsion. Ryuuen likely said it because he would have gotten injured but not fight back just from the fear of an expulsion.
it maybe but not the ryuuen who is thrown because without proof he can always get over it and that's something only ryuuen can do

but yes ryuuen can be as high as AP
 
stop arguing for the desk feat, "splintering" it can be perceived as many things, in my opinion I could perceive as violently fragmenting a little part of the desk, or I could perceive it as destroying the whole desk, which I don't really think happened, its better for an anime adaptation
 
masa için tartışmayı bırakın, "parçalamak" pek çok şey olarak algılanabilir, bence masanın küçük bir bölümünü şiddetle parçalamak olarak algılayabilirim ya da tüm masayı yok etmek olarak algılayabilirim, ki bunu yapmıyorum gerçekten oldu, bir anime uyarlaması için daha iyi
The anime adaptation can no longer be. Also, the meaning of the term splintered is quite clear. It is explained very clearly in the novel.
 
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Anime uyarlaması artık olamaz. Ayrıca, parçalanma teriminin anlamı da oldukça açıktır. Romanda çok net bir şekilde anlatılıyor.
It’s not fragmentation though, it says splintered, you can just assume that it’s fully fragmented
 
Also, if a small part of the table had been splintered, this word would not have been used.
I don't think it will be used either, because a small part of the table would not be splintered, but would just be broken.
 
Also, if a small part of the table had been splintered, this word would not have been used.
I don't think it will be used either, because a small part of the table would not be splintered, but would just be broken.
Cote has odd language, my interperation is different to yours
 
Cote has odd language, my interperation is different to yours
The language of expression of this success is quite understandable. It is therefore pointless to try to refute it with such an argument.
Sudou kicked and the desk splintered. We also know what the term "splintered" is, right? There is a success and and the narrative of success is very clear.
If the desk wasn't really splintered, or only partially broken, the author wouldn't even use it for explanation.
So no, that doesn't make sense.
 
The language of expression of this success is quite understandable. It is therefore pointless to try to refute it with such an argument.
Sudou kicked and the desk splintered. We also know what the term "splintered" is, right? There is a success and and the narrative of success is very clear.
If the desk wasn't really splintered, or only partially broken, the author wouldn't even use it for explanation.
So no, that doesn't make sense.
Send me the calc, didn't you assume the table was full metal ?
 
I don't know how the hell does COTE have odd/flowery language.

The feat actually happened. Someone tried to argue with me about that stuff about how the metal shouldn't be fully fragmented (before Vapourrrr even started his arguments) and got done by several over-analyzers.

These two things will have the same meaning lol:
1. The chair got demolished to small pieces (i.e, got splintered).
2. The entire chair got demolished to small pieces (i.e, got splintered).

I agree that using violent fragmentation for the entire stuff makes more sense, but in that argument, we even reached to the conclusion that in respect to the desk, the fragmentation can be downplayed up to simple fragmentation and not violent fragmentation.

Flowery language is the art of writing in which writers use figures of speech such as metonymy and synecdoche to illustrate their stuff and many other figures of speech which might never mean the same thing as read.

This feat literally has no flowery language. Someone gave an example in this site only (likely idc.violet) that it would have been flowery language is it was "splintered the desk with his nerve" which means that he splintered the desk with his power, but a mindless person can interpret it like splintering it with their nervous tissues lmao and calculate the ratios of the powers and get a city level result (I actually tried it lol).
 
actually in episode 1 there is a side close view of sae's desk. It looks like metal from there. all desk in the class are probably the same.
Bruh, all are made of metal only. Only the top is debatable and I addressed it already. The other stuff shines like silver (stainless steel likely).
 
Bruh, all are made of metal only. Only the top is debatable and I addressed it already. The other stuff shines like silver (stainless steel likely).
Yeah. So what I meant was a side view of the top of the desk. and from that angle it looks like steel or metal.
 
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