The Player hax upgrade

[Zenkaibattery1]

So, there has been new content, and with new content, comes new hax

Firstly, The Player currently has Mid-Godly because he regenerated after his body and soul were destroyed. However, he should have High-Godly instead.

The Devourer, when he devouers you, does it at a conceptual level: https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/610523713187741858/637137867566612490/attachment.png

This scales to Bartleby as The Player is Bartleby's Scion and most of his new abilities comes from Bartleby himself.

https://youtu.be/rFCRne-EibQ?t=92

Here, The Player gets devouered and still comes back in 1 minute 30 seconds.

IIRC, regenerating from conceptual erasure is High-Godly Regenerationn. Him having Mid-Godly kind of supports this. As Mid-Godly was done easily.

Secondly, Grandmother Raven should get High-Godly Regenerationn bypassing, which would scale to the other cosmic three. The Player would scale to this as he is basically Bartleby as The Divine Paradox.

WoG stated (if she was at full power), she could have killed The Player even with Bartleby's intervention: https://imgur.com/a/6tbTnEe

Furthermore, Raven could have killed Bartleby, but Bartleby said he could kill Raven. Raven was also on the verge of killing Spider and The Player could have killed Spider as well. So the scaling works.

Every character with Shadow Magic should get Reactive Evolution:

The Bat when he lost his Shadow Magic, regained it by constantly being hit with Shadow spells (See the "1" on the spell that indicates it's a Shadow spell, adapting resistance towards it as well as his control over it: https://youtu.be/dvLGSOXLmyc?t=265

 

[Ben_CleverName]

Yeah I'm not sure why some of this wasn't already added tbh. Especially the Bat's Reactive Evolution

 

[Ryukama]

This seems fine

 

[Crazylatin77]

Seems reasonable

 

[Eficiente]

I differ.

The Devourer eating the abstract concept of love seems poetic. The statement also makes it seem like he ca eat those things, not that he always does so when not targeting them. And until seeing that getting back from conceptual erasure is High-Godly regen in the Regenerationn page, I have a far more easier time thinking that as something some users got away with than anything legit.

The Reactive Evolution seems more like something only that character would have and not something everyone should scale to, and it has no reason to be Reactive Evolution, which is above Adaptation, which in turn is above saying that the character just gained back what he lost due to reasons, meaning that either that should not happen again in other realistic circumstances or it can only happen again under the same circumstances.

 

[Zenkaibattery1]

The Dev :

Whether or not users have high godly regen for the wrong reason in pertains to conceptual erasure is irrelevant. That is something that as a whole would require revision.

Concetpual erasures erases you beyond for body and soul. It erases you as a concept. So at the very least its a higher degree of mid godly.

Why is it poetic language? The Devourers literal purpose as a character is to eat away anything and everything in the multiverse and destroy it. How can it be poetic then? The statement itself further shows it is his purpose, and comes from monstrology, which is a canon form of magic in the game where wizards derive a creatures real essence for their own purposes. Is every ststement in monstrology going to be poetic language in this case?

If he can eat abstract concepts, but not The Player, it would be logical to assume The Player is above his conceptual eating. Otherwise him returning makes no sense at all.

At the very least, they would still get mid godly Regenerationn negation for being able to kill each other past their own mid godly Regenerationn.

Reactive evolution: Why is it adaption?

From the RE page: "adapt to grow better capable of dealing with any given issue; this can mean growing to become more resistant to certain methods of attack and certain abilities, developing new powers to better defend one's self, or just becoming more powerful to become an even greater threat."

The bat becomes resistant to shadow magic, he develops the abilities of shadow magic back, and as a result becomes more powerful. He isnt just adapting to the player slapping him with shadow spells every second. The purpose of him getting it back was so he could use Attack Reflection again to reflect something that was destroyed.

He no longer had shadow magic at all, there is no other reason present. If thats not enough, Medulla originally entered The Bats mind, and when he tried to get into his mind again, he failed. So in that case he gained resistances towards medullas mind screw.

It scales to Spider at the very least. The Bat was made from Spiders Dreams and all his powers come from Spider in the first place.

 

[Eficiente]

>"Concetpual erasures erases you beyond for body and soul. It erases you as a concept. So at the very least its a higher degree of mid godly."

You made it sound very clear how concetpual erase isn't High-Godly, 1 concept<<<<<<<<your dimension. What users where getting away with it being High-Godly? What characters?

>"Why is it poetic language? The Devourers literal purpose as a character is to eat away anything and everything in the multiverse and destroy it. How can it be poetic then? The statement itself further shows it is his purpose, and comes from monstrology, which is a canon form of magic in the game where wizards derive a creatures real essence for their own purposes. Is every ststement in monstrology going to be poetic language in this case?"

The way in which is done, "he eats this thing, this other thing and the concept of love".

>"If he can eat abstract concepts, but not The Player, it would be logical to assume The Player is above his conceptual eating. Otherwise him returning makes no sense at all."

He could eat that one concept, nothing implies more or all. Even if he could the conceptual stuff isn't applied to everything he eats, like animals and plants. The sheer logic there makes no sense "if x ca do something.. " you said it, it ca, not it always does.

 

[Zenkaibattery1]

I'm guessing you're ok with reactive evolution since you didnt say anything about it?

Also, you at least agree with mid-godly bypassing? As The Cosmic Trio + DP can kill each other past their mid-godly regen.

As for high-godly itself, I mean I dont mind with that not applied. I just still dont agree with it being poetic language when that's what monstrology and the statement say about him. Or the fact that he can eat concepts but cant eat someone specific being anything less than a higher degree of mid-godly but that's whatever, for another time.

Tldr;

Reactive evolution + mid-godly bypassing?

 

[Eficiente]

I'm guessing you're ok with reactive evolution since you didnt say anything about it?

No, I still disagree with it.

 

[Zenkaibattery1]

I'd appreciate a more proper reasoning than "no." Because otherwise the upgrade not being applied because of a "no" is unfair.

 

[AKM sama]

Reactive Evolution seems like a case applicable to Shadow Magic only. I also disagree with scaling it to everyone.

I'm also iffy about High-Godly because it needs more info than that. Just saying "eats the abstract concept of love" isn't enough to conclude he completely erases every other thing he eats such that it requires High-Godly to come back.

 

[Zenkaibattery1]

@AKM

I suppose "limited Reactive Evolution" should work. Also, Shadow Spells are only enhanced by Shadow Magic, they arent literally shadow magic. The spells apply across a range of abilities such as Fire Manipulation, Reality Warping, Matter manipulation etc.

The Bat specifically needed his Attack Reflection back for the mission and was being attacked by spells that use said abilities mentioned above

I'm fine with not adding a Regenerationn, but would Mid-Godly Regenerationn bypassing be applicable here? since they can kill each other past their mid-godly Regenerationn. I;e, Raven Killing The Paradox despite his mid godly regen

 

[AmeliaSCooper]

Reactive Evolution seems like a case applicable to Shadow Magic only. I also disagree with scaling it to everyone.

It should at least scale to Spider (he's the source of Shadow), Barlteby (he's the source of magic) and the Player as DP (they scale to barlteby). Grandmother Raven may have something similar of her own, but as she is designed as the equal opposite of Spider, it'd be understandable for people to be iffy about scaling Shadow Magics abilities to her, as she implicitely is distinct from it.

 

[Elizhaa]

I disagree with the High-Godly Regenerationn upgrade beause currently High-Godly has nothing to do with regenration from conceptual erasure; that feat is just a high-degree of Mid-Godly Regenerationn.

Regarding the Bat's case, I have to disagree with the Reactive Evolution update. From Occam's Razor, this case seems closer to Rat gaining his power back and doesn't look properly explained. It also looks to specific to the Reactive Evolution if limited to Shadow Magic as Reactive Evolution tends no be limited to a specific abilities.

Also, Bat is a God Tier so I would disagree with his abilties scaling to all shadow magic users too

 

[Zenkaibattery1]

The Bat isn't a god tier, though. He's a mid tier.

@Elizhaa

What about Mid-Godly Regenerationn negation?

Raven can kill DP even though he has mid-godly Regenerationn.

 

[Ben_CleverName]

The Big Three should have high-godly regardless of whether it's conceptual erasure.

High-Godly: The ability to regenerate even after the totality of your existence is erased, alongside the reality that you are present within that exists up to your own dimensional level.

They each scale above the Divine Paradox who has been shown to have mid-godly Regenerationn and they are each capable of surviving the destruction of existence (all of it).

The mid-tiers and god-tiers should both have Reactive Evolution regardless of whether the Bat's feat was an example of it.

Reactive Evolution: the ability to, in response to threats and adverse situations, adapt to grow better capable of dealing with any given issue; this can mean growing to become more resistant to certain methods of attack and certain abilities, developing new powers to better defend one's self, or just becoming more powerful to become an even greater threat.

The Player has spells which grant him additional energy to cast spells with upon being attacked by a powerful enough opponent. This alone matches the criteria to "grow better capable of dealing with any given issue". Even without that, there's this scan from the Player fighting Morganthe.

The Player has NEVER done this before fighting her, nor were they preparing for such an outcome to occur. It just happened as a side effect of battling Morganthe.

 

[Elizhaa]

The Bat isn't a god tier, though. He's a mid tier.
@Elizhaa

What about Mid-Godly Regenerationn negation?

Raven can kill DP even though he has mid-godly Regenerationn.

Oh, my analysis about God Tiers was toward Bat being Tier 2 while the majority in the verse are below.

Mid-Godly Regenerationn negation is fine, to me.

 

[Zenkaibattery1]

Mid-Godly Regenerationn negation seems to be the only thing accepted by Elizhaa, Ryukama and Latin.

I guess the others have been rejected. So I'lll apply the negation and this can be closed

 

[Zenkaibattery1]

Actually, looking back, as Ben said, High-Godly should be applicable to the characters.

It has been stated multiple times that all of existence was going to be erased, in one way or another. All of these characters can survive the collapse.

https://imgur.com/a/I2IBGV8

Existence destroyed

https://youtu.be/BrYMIz518Wg?t=10738

Raven saying she'll survive when The Chaos Heart shatters and that she'll recreate everything: "Soon The Chaos Heart will shatter, and all of this swept away. Then I begin again"

https://youtu.be/PgW1ghJzoEM?t=254

Spider says when the Spiral is destroyed by removing the bonds The Chaos Heart is binded in, he will weave a new one to replace it. Of course, he'll have to survive to do this.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G-24Ax-wwiM

Raven said she was going to destroy Grandfather Spider and his darkness and chaos; conceptually destroy the Spiral. She said that she and Mellori will remain regardless.

https://youtu.be/jYT-yWYb6B0?t=3212

Spider was going to erase existence and everyone in it by turning back time to before it all existed, yet he would survive.

 

[Elizhaa]

For them to get High-Godly, they would need survive the multiverse destruction at a 5-D level, at least; from what I saw, the verse just mentioned standard 4-D multiverse destruction so again it is a no forHigh-Godly Regenerationn. Most of the time, Characters can survive standard multiverse destruction without having High-Godly Regenerationn because these characters' durabilities are high enough to make them survive.

 

[Ben_CleverName]

For them to get High-Godly, they would need survive the multiverse destruction at a 5-D level, at least; from what I saw, the verse just mentioned standard 4-D multiverse destruction so again it is a no forHigh-Godly Regenerationn. Most of the time, Characters can survive standard multiverse destruction without having High-Godly Regenerationn because these characters' durabilities are high enough to make them survive.

"For them to get High-Godly, they would need survive the multiverse destruction at a 5-D level"

It's already at a 5-D level though. As we've already repeated several times, they were going to destroy and survive the destruction of ALL of existence. Not just the Spiral and the universes associated with it. It makes no sense to assume that all of existence is somehow limited to 4-D when we already have 3 5-D beings in the franchise.

 

[Zenkaibattery1]

I'll make a thread for high-godly later down the line with more evidence, I suppose this can be closed

 

[AKM sama]

Mid-Godly Regenerationn negation seems to be the only thing accepted by Elizhaa, Ryukama and Latin.
I guess the others have been rejected. So I'lll apply the negation and this can be closed

Have the changes been applied?

 

[Zenkaibattery1]

Yep.

 

[AKM sama]

Okay.