The Old Master's Trick, the Kamehameha!! (Dragon Ball)

[Nullflowerblush]

The Ol' Kamehameha Trick (Dragon Ball)

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A Pilaf Saga calculation potentially buffing Goku's Kamehameha to Building level+/Large Building level was recently accepted. The only problem is that there are four possible results, divided into two different ends: pulverization and vaporization. The point of this thread is to determine whether to use pulverization and vaporization and how this affects scaling.

Feat in question.

 

[Nullflowerblush]

This is a CRT, by the way, guys.

 

[Mr.Cinos15]

I'll just drop what I know. Ki attacks can produce heat, the explosion has red in it and the hole along with the edges of it are blackened, which indicates heat. There's a small cloud in the explosion and afterwards there's only small smoke/steam clouds after and we see no debris in the pretty clean burnt hole. All of it seemingly points towards it being vaporization, but the explosion cloud being slightly brownish like the wall would be the point of contention. That cloud is the only thing imo that could be argued to be the bits of the wall being pulverized into dust. Everything else makes me think vaporization.

Of course, I could be completely wrong and stupid.

 

[Phsccarvalho]

so shouldn't it be in the Calc group discussion, since it's purely about calculus? About their results involving two different types of ends.

 

[Damage3245]

I'll comment tomorrow.

 

[Mr.Cinos15]

so shouldn't it be in the Calc group discussion, since it's purely about calculus? About their results involving two different types of ends.

Yeah this seems more of a calc group thing.

 

[Nullflowerblush]

so shouldn't it be in the Calc group discussion, since it's purely about calculus? About their results involving two different types of ends.

I was told by Flashlight237 and Damage3245 (weird names, by the way) that the two results were simultaneously correct, and that choosing which end is more correct was to be discussed in a CRT.

 

[Mr.Cinos15]

Alrighty. Now to wait for Damage's pulv argument.

 

[Phsccarvalho]

and that choosing which end is more correct was to be discussed in a CRT.

Well that sounds like a Calc group discussion thing to me. Because this still involves something purely of the calculation, which is whether to use spraying or steaming as the main thing to do.

This doesn't seem like something non-calculus-experienced members can weigh in on.

Whatever anyway, I guess.

 

[BestMGQScalerEver]

I'll follow but I'm not knowledgeable on this stuff so I'll just watch.

 

[BestMGQScalerEver]

I'll follow but I'm not knowledgeable on this stuff so I'll just watch.

Although doesn't Ki usually vaporize in cases like this?

 

[Huesito88]

Alrighty. Now to wait for Damage's pulv argument.

Tri Beam something?

 

[Mr.Cinos15]

Well that sounds like a Calc group discussion thing to me. Because this still involves something purely of the calculation, which is whether to use spraying or steaming as the main thing to do.

This doesn't seem like something non-calculus-experienced members can weigh in on.

Whatever anyway, I guess.

I think it's because mathematically speaking, everything is fine, we just have to decide whether vap or pulv is more accurate. In a calc group thread iirc they discuss whether the math is right or wrong or if a method is incorrect. Here we just argue which destruction fits the bill, pulv or vap.

 

[Mr.Cinos15]

Tri Beam something?

What?

 

[Nullflowerblush]

Tri Beam something?

The Tri-Beam blew apart the arena via sheer force and is also a Kiai, but the Kamehameha here created an explosion and left behind burn marks. And explosions are typically hot.

 

[Mr.Cinos15]

Oh that's what they meant. Yeah the kikoho is a Kiai attack and is mostly just pure force.

 

[AwkguyDB]

I believe everything worth a grain of salt here points to vaporization and that is pretty much a characteristic of the Kamehameha in later showings

 

[Nierre]

I'm no calc guy, but this DEFINITELY looks more like vaporization than pulv to me. It doesn't need to explicitly say that it was vaporized for it to be accepted as such. There's no debris from what I see from the calc, that would point to pulv, so vap makes sense to me

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

I think Pulverization is the safer method; I recall Dargoo back when he was an Admin made a giant rant that just because we see a blast or explosion followed by some puffs that look like smoke, we don't assume vaporization.

 

[Nullflowerblush]

Burn marks. No visible debris. Clean hole.

 

[Mr.Cinos15]

Literally the only thing pointing at pulv is that the cloud that appeared during the explosion (not the two tiny puffs of smoke/steam after the explosion) is ever so slightly brownish like the wall, which could be interpreted as the wall being finely pulverized.

 

[Damage3245]

Burn marks. No visible debris. Clean hole.

The latter two work for Pulverization just as well as they do for Vaporization.

The lack of statement for vaporization, and the fact that we don't typically see instances of vaporization when the Kamehameha hits something solid leads me to go with the safer option which is pulverizatiom.

 

[Serlock_Holmes]

There are literally burn marks around the edge of the hole and the clouds usually mean the presence of heat (though at times there are also indicative of rumble. However the hole seems reminiscent of vaporization than fragmentation.

 

[ArcaneAbyss]

Burn marks. No visible debris. Clean hole.

Is there any chance that an attack having ALL 3 of these can be pulverization?

 

[Serlock_Holmes]

There is even a clean cutting of every surface of the whole implying vaporization. The whole also seems reminiscent of stone vaporization with some youtube videos I have found.



This is the closest one.

 

[Nullflowerblush]

the fact that we don't typically see instances of vaporization when the Kamehameha hits something solid leads me to go with the safer option which is pulverizatiom.

Left burn marks and a scorched hole on Metal Metallitron, cooked an entire giant octopus, and scorched the side of the Pilaf Gang's robot. Besides, rarely does the Kamehameha hit a solid target that is not another living being. And, also, this is a point-blank Kamehameha.

 

[Serlock_Holmes]

Left burn marks and a scorched hole on Metal Metallitron, cooked an entire giant octopus, and scorched the side of the Pilaf Gang's robot. Besides, rarely does the Kamehameha hit a solid target that is not another living being. And, also, this is a point-blank Kamehameha.

Yeah there are burn marks evident especially in the third example and also well the second.

 

[Nullflowerblush]

Hell, when the Kamehameha does hit living beings and they are overpowered, they can be and have been completely vaporized.

 

[Da3ggman]

Personally, I'm leaning towards vaporization, but its a very slight lean.

 

[Nullflowerblush]

Bump

 

[Nullflowerblush]

bump

 

[Mr.Cinos15]

If it wasn't clear earlier, my stance is vaporization.

 

[DivineAura44]

Bump

 

[Stryker861]

Vaporization makes sense here

 

[Nullflowerblush]

bump

 

[AwkguyDB]

at this point what evidence is there that warrants Pulv over Vap??

 

[Serlock_Holmes]

None beyond it being a more conservative value.

 

[ArcaneAbyss]

Everything points to vap