The No More Hero vs AMOGUS

[Shmooply]

I've recently found out Jo Amon is a 9-A with a lightsaber, and that quickly reminded me of another 9-A with a lightsaber from a different Japanese video game yes i know the beam katanas arent a reference to lightsabers chompy.

Jo Amon

Travis Touchdown

NMH1 Travis is being used

Has become the 1# assassin twice in a row -

Legendary assassin of the... clan of multiple assassins -

nothin personnel...kid... -

 

[Armorchompy]

They are though

 

[sanicspood]

amogus

 

[Shmooply]

They are though

They're based off of those dick lightsabers though.

 

[Armorchompy]

Anyway, Jo

MAMA LOL

Anyway, Jo Amon has a ridicolous amount of equipment, and he's not above spamming all of it, though not at once. However, correct me if I'm mistaken, but doesn't he usually do that in the second half of his fights?

 

[Armorchompy]

They're based off of those dick lightsabers though.

I think it's a bit of both, but I think it's quite intentional that they look like lightsabers- Travis starts with what looks like a shitty cosplayer replica, and eventually he ends up with something that looks like the real deal, symbolizing his growth... or something.

 

[SpookyShadow]

Anyway, Jo Amon has a ridicolous amount of equipment, and he's not above spamming all of it, though not at once. However, correct me if I'm mistaken, but doesn't he usually do that in the second half of his fights?

Depends on the situation, but he does start with some lethal shit

 

[Armorchompy]

Yeah I feel like understanding his first move is gonna be a nightmare, dude is the incarnation of that "RANDOM BULLSHIT GO!" meme

 

[SpookyShadow]

In H2H he would probably start with Tiger Drop

 

[SpookyShadow]

Oh wait, what's the AP difference? Amon is bit above 0.111 tons, can amp

 

[Armorchompy]

Travis is a fair bit above 0.1 with his sword though his durability doesn't really upscale. Anyway, Tiger Drop's pretty scary especially since it's a counter, so Travis might struggle dodging it if Jo uses it properly. However while Jo does have higher AP I do think Travis would be able to get up from that since he can take a lot of punishment and has his regen/immortality. Of course this is all assuming Travis gives Jo enough of an opening, once you ignore the invulnerability frames it gives you in gameplay it's pretty difficult to get in with a punch when your opponent is wildly but skillfully swinging around a katana.

 

[SpookyShadow]

Apparently he has all of his equipment, dayum.

I hope it won't make it a stomp, because he has drones that one shot Kiryu, the satellite and plenty other shit. (I would be fine with Yakuza 4/5 Amon)

 

[Shmooply]

Changing it to 4/5 Amon as per Spooky's request.

 

[SpookyShadow]

Thanks. Now I don't think I have to worry. Forget the drone part.

 

[Armorchompy]

Meh, IMO this fight ends before the REALLY crazy shit happens, but I ain't gonna complain. Jo doesn't really have any feats for dealing with extended melee range outside of Majima's knife, right? Outside of obviously being a really skilled fighter in general.

 

[SpookyShadow]

Pretty much. He can dodge cannon blasts and similar shit, but weapons in Yakuza aren't very long. Maybe some spears. Worth to note he has forcefields though, and crazy agility. But I doubt he will go for the further unless he feels like it's necessary.

 

[Armorchompy]

Yeah, I think with skill being at least equal (I know Yakuza's best skill feats, and by now you know Travis'), I think Travis is at an advantage in normal combat because of his longer range, worth mentioning he has fought someone who only used martial arts- she did beat him, admittedly, but she was also way stronger than him, and he grows a bit in skill since that.

As for agility, Travis constantly does flips and other acrobatic maneuvers when using his final Beam Katana, so he's pretty good in that regard as well. As for forcefields, how do they work?

 

[SpookyShadow]

Yeah, I think with skill being at least equal (I know Yakuza's best skill feats, and by now you know Travis'),

Tbh, Amon has combined skill of hundreds to thousands of fighters, it definitely includes Majima and Kiryu (He copied Kiryu's style before he even invented it lol), and from what I remember Akiyama, Tanimura and Saejima, so I'm not sure about skill being equal. There's my little wall of text about Kiryu's skill, and add to that the rest of protagonists (I'll ask KLOL if he has the skill of the rest. I can argue that Amon is more lethal, hand-to-hand. I didn't with Geralt because his feats are too natural, but Yakuza feats are absolutely crazy.

As for agility, Travis constantly does flips and other acrobatic maneuvers when using his final Beam Katana

Amon knows the Mad Dog of Shimano style which is pretty much being as hard to hit as possible. He utilizes some crazy breakdance that is Breaker Style, and can probably leap really damn high like Akiyama, but once KLOL responds to me I'll consider that here.

As for forcefields, how do they work?

They reduce damage greatly

 

[Armorchompy]

Tbh, Amon has combined skill of hundreds to thousands of fighters, it definitely includes Majima and Kiryu (He copied Kiryu's style before he even invented it lol), and from what I remember Akiyama, Tanimura and Saejima, so I'm not sure about skill being equal. There's my little wall of text about Kiryu's skill, and add to that the rest of protagonists (I'll ask KLOL if he has the skill of the rest. I can argue that Amon is more lethal, hand-to-hand. I didn't with Geralt because his feats are too natural, but Yakuza feats are absolutely crazy.

Oh I know, but Jo is a fair bit less skilled than Kiryu since even though they're close fights, he always gets "totally destroyed" despite his crazy equipment. Travis is no stranger to learning moves incredibly fast himself, though perhaps not as fast as Kiryu, he picked up his whole fighting style just by watching cassette tapes. Though admittedly I can agree Jo might outskill this key by a small amount.

Amon knows the Mad Dog of Shimano style which is pretty much being as hard to hit as possible. He utilizes some crazy breakdance that is Breaker Style, and can probably leap really damn high like Akiyama, but once KLOL responds to me I'll consider that here.

Eh, Travis fought Henry, who teleports and flips around and isn't afraid to spam both, while being as skilled as Travis and wielding a weapon with a very large crossguard, and also leaps dozens of meters into the air. No breakdancing, though, as much as I'd love to see that. Travis also killed Holly, a war veteran who basically only runs away from you while shooting homing missiles, in a battlefield full of pitfalls and other explosives.

They reduce damage greatly

I see. Well, if Travis gets a Dark Step, I'd assume the damage might still end up being lethal, with the cumulative effect of the amount of blows, plus Jo's lack of Heat Resistance on a Beam Katana's level, but it's not out of the question Jo could survive one or two slashes.

Also one thing worth mentioning is that I have an (approved) Class 5 calc for Travis so he isn't overly outmuscled here, I'm just waiting on another one to make a small CRT. That said his feat is 1200 kg while Yakuza's is 2500 so he still loses in that regard, just not incredibly so.

 

[SpookyShadow]

Oh I know, but Jo is a fair bit less skilled than Kiryu since even though they're close fights, he always gets "totally destroyed" despite his crazy equipment

Wouldn't say he's much less skilled, I'd say he outclasses him mainly in strength and his own technique. But it's fair, Amon is not on their level when it comes to usage of the copied techniques even if they are exactly the same, but copying their techniques immediately is something.

Travis also killed Holly, a war veteran who basically only runs away from you while shooting homing missiles, in a battlefield full of pitfalls and other explosives.

Well Amon can shoot umbrellas, create small shockwaves, summon a large laser from the sky, also has several weapons himself.

I see. Well, if Travis gets a Dark Step, I'd assume the damage might still end up being lethal, with the cumulative effect of the amount of blows, plus Jo's lack of Heat Resistance on a Beam Katana's level, but it's not out of the question Jo could survive one or two slashes.

Amon can block his strikes with his own lightsabers though. Not to mention, one Tiger Drop and Travis can end up on the floor (If he has no pain tolerance feats, but TG also deals unholy damage, and can deal pain to even Majima who has plenty pain resistance feats).
I'll also mention Amon has Kiryu's Rush style, so aside strength and durability, he can boost his speed and agility as well

 

[Armorchompy]

Wouldn't say he's much less skilled, I'd say he outclasses him mainly in strength and his own technique. But it's fair, Amon is not on their level when it comes to usage of the copied techniques even if they are exactly the same, but copying their techniques immediately is something.

Fair, but I would mention that while the girl with the accelerated development Travis stomps is in the second game, she's in its early game, so that level of skill does somewhat backscale to NMH1, albeit a bit lower.

Well Amon can shoot umbrellas, create small shockwaves, summon a large laser from the sky, also has several weapons himself.

Oh I know, although he's also familiar with shockwaves and giant lasers- in fact, his current AP feat comes from deflecting a giant laser, so that one's actually not too much of an issue.

Amon can block his strikes with his own lightsabers though. Not to mention, one Tiger Drop and Travis can end up on the floor (If he has no pain tolerance feats, but TG also deals unholy damage, and can deal pain to even Majima who has plenty pain resistance feats).
I'll also mention Amon has Kiryu's Rush style, so aside strength and durability, he can boost his speed and agility as well

Travis was fine, only shocked, after having his heart punched out, he also got up and quickly began fighting after near-fatal electrocution followed by a brutal beating, and overall he takes a shitton of punishment in a lot of cases. I know Majima's pain resistance comes from torture, but it's not like that torture DIDN'T hurt him. I think Travis will be alright- relatively speaking, regen should eventually take care of the tummy ache tho.
Not to the level of a blitz, albeit from playing Yakuza I don't think that'd be the case anyway.

Still, the elephant in the room of instinctive reaction -> speed blitz is still there, though I do believe Travis won't get it off immediately here, I do think he will before Jo wears him down or pulls out the really nuts stuff

 

[SpookyShadow]

Oh I know, although he's also familiar with shockwaves and giant lasers- in fact, his current AP feat comes from deflecting a giant laser, so that one's actually not too much of an issue.

He may be familiar, but alongside that, there will be constant explosions, flying umbrellas et cetera. If he wants to get close to Amon, he will eventually get hit by one of those. He also has flashbang grenades and can create white copies of himself/afterimages. If he's in trouble, Travis might be quite overwhelmed.

Travis was fine, only shocked, after having his heart punched out, he also got up and quickly began fighting after near-fatal electrocution followed by a brutal beating, and overall he takes a shitton of punishment in a lot of cases. I know Majima's pain resistance comes from torture, but it's not like that torture DIDN'T hurt him. I think Travis will be alright- relatively speaking, regen should eventually take care of the tummy ache tho.

Well, a human being can withstand that pain I believe. Of course it's super painful, but being punched in solar plexus is a pressure point move for a reason. It's natural body reaction to be stunned. And it's literally the most amped and strongest punch the users can produce, so it's really damn powerful. There's a reason it's so infamous in Yakuza for one shotting most opponents.

The torture did hurt him, but he toughed it out for a year with no mental scars, that is something.

Not to the level of a blitz, albeit from playing Yakuza I don't think that'd be the case anyway.

Of course not to the level of blitz. But it's still an amp.

Still, the elephant in the room of instinctive reaction -> speed blitz is still there, though I do believe Travis won't get it off immediately here, I do think he will before Jo wears him down or pulls out the really nuts stuff

Can you show me the speed amp in practice? I'd deduce something from that.

Also about lightsabers, Amon can take hits from that

 

[Armorchompy]

He may be familiar, but alongside that, there will be constant explosions, flying umbrellas et cetera. If he wants to get close to Amon, he will eventually get hit by one of those. He also has flashbang grenades and can create white copies of himself/afterimages. If he's in trouble, Travis might be quite overwhelmed.

Travis' very first boss creates afterimage copies which can damage you and all, as for flying umbrellas he might actually be able to bat them back at him, he's shown doing that sometimes.

Well, a human being can withstand that pain I believe. Of course it's super painful, but being punched in solar plexus is a pressure point move for a reason. It's natural body reaction to be stunned. And it's literally the most amped and strongest punch the users can produce, so it's really damn powerful. There's a reason it's so infamous in Yakuza for one shotting most opponents.

The torture did hurt him, but he toughed it out for a year with no mental scars, that is something.

The pain of getting your heart punched out? Which barely got a reaction out of him? I'm not saying Travis would shrug off such a blow but he'd get up from it. Also honestly that's more of a willpower feat than a real pain resistance feat, the torture clearly hella affected him also while I love my boy Majima I wouldn't exactly describe him as "not mentally scarred"

Of course not to the level of blitz. But it's still an amp.

True, but rush also throws out a lot of weaker attacks, which just makes it more likely for one to eventually get dodged and lead into a Dark Step.

Can you show me the speed amp in practice? I'd deduce something from that.

Keep in mind that Dark Step length is tied to the length of your weapon combo so while you see the guy in the background begin to move again right before the final hit, that's just because the guy cancels it out into a kick, it's one or two blows longer, especially since Travis is using the first beam katana there. So about what, 6-7 slashes? I think the final beam katana's combo animation is a bit longer. (Also the weird inverted color/black filter that appears right before the Dark Step is edited in fsr)

Also about lightsabers, Amon can take hits from that

No offense but that's blatantly game mechanics, if you use that logic then every boss in Yakuza is almost immune to stabbing and bulletproof. Besides, Beam Katanas also slash physically, they're not completely reliant on heat, as shown by the fact that working out boosts your damage.

 

[Armorchompy]

Also that video's shown me you can actually dark step out of a block as well, so that's handy.

 

[SpookyShadow]

Travis' very first boss creates afterimage copies which can damage you and all, as for flying umbrellas he might actually be able to bat them back at him, he's shown doing that sometimes.

From what I see he creates three of them, Amon should be capable of doing four (and there will be also Amon himself to handle), so that's more than what Travis dealt with. And even if he redirects them, Amon can easily dodge that anyway.

The pain of getting your heart punched out? Which barely got a reaction out of him? I'm not saying Travis would shrug off such a blow but he'd get up from it.

Yeah I mean, punching out a heart will kill you, but in combat, I feel like a solar plexus punch would be more useful against an opponent with regeneration. Because while punching out a heart is lethal damage, punching to the solar plexus is disrupting breathing massively, aside the pain, if I recall correctly. It just shuts you off for a moment, natural body reaction.

Also honestly that's more of a willpower feat than a real pain resistance feat, the torture clearly hella affected him also while I love my boy Majima I wouldn't exactly describe him as "not mentally scarred"

Well there's plenty of more Majima direct pain resistance feats, but I can leave that. Also he's a functioning human being so it is something, aside from his obviously staged crazy persona. Anyone would go legit crazy from what he went through. Let's leave it though, like I said.

True, but rush also throws out a lot of weaker attacks, which just makes it more likely for one to eventually get dodged and lead into a Dark Step.

They are not much weaker tbh. It deals damage for speed, but you know, it's still speed, he can attack more, and we know Amon isn't Kiryu, he has more lethal shit so he can attack more at once.

the video

So he's slowing down his perception of time? It's kinda similar to what Kiryu and Majima do in 0/1. They both slow down their perception of time while switching styles. I think it's a good amp, but if Amon's in Rush I don't think he will be blitzed much to the point of being completely overwhelmed.

No offense but that's blatantly game mechanics, if you use that logic then every boss in Yakuza is almost immune to stabbing and bulletproof. Besides, Beam Katanas also slash physically, they're not completely reliant on heat, as shown by the fact that working out boosts your damage.

I mean, there are Heat moves that DO make them borderline bulletproof and immune to stabbing. In cutscenes they do not use Heat, if you try to use that argument. Amon takes hits from actual lightsabers in gameplay, so idk why he would die after 2 strikes from them like you mentioned? They still deal large amount of damage but dying after 2 hits is a stretch for me.

 

[Armorchompy]

From what I see he creates three of them, Amon should be capable of doing four (and there will be also Amon himself to handle), so that's more than what Travis dealt with. And even if he redirects them, Amon can easily dodge that anyway.

Fair enough, but he does have some defense against this stuff, even if not quite at Amon's level. Worth mentioning he had a fairly easy time with Death Metal, the guy who did the cloning thing.

Yeah I mean, punching out a heart will kill you, but in combat, I feel like a solar plexus punch would be more useful against an opponent with regeneration. Because while punching out a heart is lethal damage, punching to the solar plexus is disrupting breathing massively, aside the pain, if I recall correctly. It just shuts you off for a moment, natural body reaction.

... Punching out someone's heart also will disrupt breathing, considering you'd have to pierce through a lung as well to get there. A blow to the solar plexus hurts like a bitch and all, but I don't think it's comparable to literally crushing what controls the blood flow- now, I'm not saying Travis shrugs it off, I'm saying he gets knocked on his ass and gets up groaning.

Well there's plenty of more Majima direct pain resistance feats, but I can leave that. Also he's a functioning human being so it is something, aside from his obviously staged crazy persona. Anyone would go legit crazy from what he went through. Let's leave it though, like I said.

I mean, he's definitely got some issues, especially in Yakuza 0, but fair enough.

They are not much weaker tbh. It deals damage for speed, but you know, it's still speed, he can attack more, and we know Amon isn't Kiryu, he has more lethal shit so he can attack more at once.

Still, Travis can take a few punches to the face until he manages to duck to the side of one- I should really update his stamina section, it's laughably barebones considering the sheer amount of bullshit he tanks.

So he's slowing down his perception of time? It's kinda similar to what Kiryu and Majima do in 0/1. They both slow down their perception of time while switching styles. I think it's a good amp, but if Amon's in Rush I don't think he will be blitzed much to the point of being completely overwhelmed.

No, he's straight-up speeding up, enemies are frozen on screen but his attacks actually go a little bit faster than usual.

I mean, there are Heat moves that DO make them borderline bulletproof and immune to stabbing. In cutscenes they do not use Heat, if you try to use that argument. Amon takes hits from actual lightsabers in gameplay, so idk why he would die after 2 strikes from them like you mentioned? They still deal large amount of damage but dying after 2 hits is a stretch for me.

Make a CRT and get Heat Resistance on his profile- I wouldn't even disagree, mind you, I think it makes sense, more or less, but I'd like to see other Yakuza fans' takes on this. Actually, speaking of Heat, does Jo start out with it activated? I haven't actually fought any of the Amons in the two Yakuza games I've played, but most bosses don't.

 

[SpookyShadow]

... Punching out someone's heart also will disrupt breathing, considering you'd have to pierce through a lung as well to get there. A blow to the solar plexus hurts like a bitch and all, but I don't think it's comparable to literally crushing what controls the blood flow- now, I'm not saying Travis shrugs it off, I'm saying he gets knocked on his ass and gets up groaning.

Yeah I gotcha. Tiger Drop is still
totally devastating though, it's the strongest physical move he has to offer.

No, he's straight-up speeding up, enemies are frozen on screen but his attacks actually go a little bit faster than usual.

Ok then but I still have a hard time seeing that blitz. It could work the first time as a surpise attack, but two times I doubt it.

Make a CRT and get Heat Resistance on his profile- I wouldn't even disagree, mind you, I think it makes sense, more or less, but I'd like to see other Yakuza fans' takes on this.

Meh I could but I don't really know if it's resistance. He straight up tanks that shit. I would agree with game mechanics if only the photon blade had lore/cutscene feats, but there's no contradictions to make that claim.

Actually, speaking of heat, does Jo start out with heat? I haven't actually fought any of the Amons in the two Yakuza games I've played, but most bosses don't.

Start? Nah not immediately. He can activate it if he wants to, but I think he only activates it when shit hits the fan and he feels danger ahead. That's what most Yakuza bosses do. IIRC only Kuze immediately starts with Heat.

 

[Armorchompy]

Yeah I gotcha. Tiger Drop is still
totally devastating though, it's the strongest physical move he has to offer.

Oh totally, but it won't completely incap Travis or anything.

Ok then but I still have a hard time seeing that blitz. It could work the first time as a surpise attack, but two times I doubt it.

I mean, look at that enemy being frozen (maybe the one in the background cause his animations aren't being reset), and put Amon in his place. He's literally too slow to even move an arm in defense. The animation he's in is supposed to be quickly raising his gun btw, you can see that when Dark Step begins to fade out.

Meh I could but I don't really know if it's resistance. He straight up tanks that shit. I would agree with game mechanics if only the photon blade had lore/cutscene feats, but there's no contradictions to make that claim.

If you resist something that's heat based, that's kinda heat resistance. That said, Beam Katanas also strike physically, so this one would likely have more effect- again, while Travis' durability is not much above 0.1 tons (though it is a little bit, Travis grows in health through the course of the game), his sword's AP is.

Start? Nah not immediately. He can activate it if he wants to, but I think he only activates it when shit hits the fan and he feels danger ahead. That's what most Yakuza bosses do. IIRC only Kuze immediately starts with Heat.

Nothin' like an old man on heat huh. Anyway, I think that's a decent advantage for Travis, if he manages to close it off rapidly he gets to avoid most of the random bullshit and heat.

 

[Armorchompy]

It's worth mentioning bosses, even Henry and Jeane, who are respectively just as good as Travis and even better than him, can't block your attacks when you're in Dark Side, and Jeane otherwise automatically avoids most of your attacks.

 

[SpookyShadow]

I mean, look at that enemy being frozen (maybe the one in the background cause his animations aren't being reset), and put Amon in his place. He's literally too slow to even move an arm in defense. The animation he's in is supposed to be quickly raising his gun btw, you can see that when Dark Step begins to fade out.

That's fair, I can get speed blitz for a surprise attack. But I'd say, he'll go for a more defensive move after seeing that.

It's worth mentioning bosses, even Henry and Jeane, who are respectively just as good as Travis and even better than him, can't block your attacks when you're in Dark Side, and Jeane otherwise automatically avoids most of your attacks.

You mean block physically? Like a guard with arms?

If you resist something that's heat based, that's kinda heat resistance. That said, Beam Katanas also strike physically, so this one would likely have more effect- again, while Travis' durability is not much above 0.1 tons (though it is a little bit, Travis grows in health through the course of the game), his sword's AP is.

Well, there are several other heat resistance feats, like Kiryu completely toughing out the fire tournament in Kiwami 2, the boiling water tanking by goons etc. For me it's pretty logical they can tank that shit considering Yakuza was FAR more ridiculous than that within many cutscenes/QTE's. I can probably make a CRT, but I'll discuss it with KLOL. He's my brother in arms in that Yakuza business.

Nothin' like an old man on heat huh. Anyway, I think that's a decent advantage for Travis, if he manages to close it off rapidly he gets to avoid most of the random bullshit and heat.

It's actually symbolizing Kuze's growing respect to Kiryu and finally seeing him as an actual yakuz-alright I'll stop, I just really like the old guy

I also think it's a decent advantage, but there's a chance he can get overwhelmed by eventual Amon's random bullshit

 

[Armorchompy]

That's fair, I can get speed blitz for a surprise attack. But I'd say, he'll go for a more defensive move after seeing that.

I mean, that's if he realizes it comes from a dodge. It seems obvious to us, but "he can do this at any time and did it while I was attacking to make sure I couldn't escape it" is just as good of a guess, as I'm sure many others can be. Eventually he can figure it out but it's several cutting, burning blows delivered to his body at once, I still doubt he survives that.

You mean block physically? Like a guard with arms?

Henry blocks with his own Beam Katana, Jeane dodges instead, my bad.

Well, there are several other heat resistance feats, like Kiryu completely toughing out the fire tournament in Kiwami 2, the boiling water tanking by goons etc. For me it's pretty logical they can tank that shit considering Yakuza was FAR more ridiculous than that within many cutscenes/QTE's. I can probably make a CRT, but I'll discuss it with KLOL. He's my brother in arms in that Yakuza business.

I can believe that eh, but even then, Beam Katanas can easily slice through a guy who stands in a housefire without much issue, and those reach 600 Celsius/1100 Fahreneit. And it wasn't a weak fire or anything (Second floor window).

It's actually symbolizing Kuze's growing respect to Kiryu and finally seeing him as an actual yakuz-alright I'll stop, I just really like the old guy

Oh I love Kuze too, he's a great twist on the rival archetype.

I also think it's a decent advantage, but there's a chance he can get overwhelmed by eventual Amon's random bullshit

There's definitely a chance, absolutely not a decisive win here or anything, but it still seems to me like Travis can edge it out more often than not.

 

[SpookyShadow]

I mean, that's if he realizes it comes from a dodge. It seems obvious to us, but "he can do this at any time and did it while I was attacking to make sure I couldn't escape it" is just as good of a guess, as I'm sure many others can be. Eventually he can figure it out but it's several cutting, burning blows delivered to his body at once, I still doubt he survives that.

Well he can survive similar Heat actions from Kiryu with the lightsabers, isn't that something similar? I think until Travis gets the speed amp (You said it takes some little time), he will get the forcefield ready like in Kiwami 2.

Henry blocks with his own Beam Katana, Jeane dodges instead, my bad.

So he can reduce the damage with the forcefield and dodge? I think it's useful

I can believe that eh, but even then, Beam Katanas can easily slice through a guy who stands in a housefire without much issue, and those reach 600 Celsius/1100 Fahreneit. And it wasn't a weak fire or anything (Second floor window).

Pretty sure the Beam Katanas would already be hotter than housefire I'll mention that while Travis has his speed amps, Amon has his very own variation of Extreme Heat Mode, which is a BIG amp as well. A very big one. It allows for the user to take down the usual opponents with just few hits, and the durability is ofc also increased to similar level.

And I'll mention as well - Travis doesn't have the range. Amon has the grenades, clones, his own lightsabers, umbrellas, flashbangs, satellite et cetera, and it doesn't seem Travis covers great distances with his speed amp. He will need to get close to Amon to damage him, and a little bit into the fight when Heat kicks in it might be a little difficult with all the random bullshit. Amon is the type that would do ANYTHING to kill his opponent (that's why he uses the unfair weapons in Kiryu fights in the first place), so he'll go for that quickly.

 

[Armorchompy]

Well he can survive similar Heat actions from Kiryu with the lightsabers, isn't that something similar? I think until Travis gets the speed amp (You said it takes some little time), he will get the forcefield ready like in Kiwami 2.

Dark Step can be spammed, assuming there's attacks to dodge and trigger it every time. The one you're thinking of is his other, stronger and longer speed amp, Ecstasy Mode, but that's not in NMH1. Nothing prevents Travis from using it on the very first attack if he can dodge it.

So he can reduce the damage with the forcefield and dodge? I think it's useful

No, what I meant is, Jeane will dodge every attack from you unless she's already attacking, but she's unable to do that against Dark Step, the speed amp. Forcefield would work if he sets it up before Travis activates it tho.

Pretty sure the Beam Katanas would already be hotter than housefire I'll mention that while Travis has his speed amps, Amon has his very own variation of Extreme Heat Mode, which is a BIG amp as well. A very big one. It allows for the user to take down the usual opponents with just few hits, and the durability is ofc also increased to similar level.

Eh, you never know. Still, I'd wager Travis can end the fight before that.

And I'll mention as well - Travis doesn't have the range. Amon has the grenades, clones, his own lightsabers, umbrellas, flashbangs, satellite et cetera, and it doesn't seem Travis covers great distances with his speed amp. He will need to get close to Amon to damage him, and a little bit into the fight when Heat kicks in it might be a little difficult with all the random bullshit. Amon is the type that would do ANYTHING to kill his opponent (that's why he uses the unfair weapons in Kiryu fights in the first place), so he'll go for that quickly.

Would he really, though? I mean, he knows Kiryu is an incredibly skilled warrior who's whooped his ass multiple times, but Travis looks like a scrawny nerd with a lightsaber, an anime t-shirt and a cocky personality. I doubt he'd go all out with his Random Bullshit before Travis lands some hits on him- and considering piercing damage and all, those blows might just be lethal.

Once again Travis' opponent has the issue of having a lot of good tools but he won't use all of them at once, and IMO this time they don't really have the punch to guarantee a win even if used, so I think I'll vote Travis for now.

 

[SpookyShadow]

Dark Step can be spammed, assuming there's attacks to dodge and trigger it every time. The one you're thinking of is his other, stronger and longer speed amp, Ecstasy Mode, but that's not in NMH1. Nothing prevents Travis from using it on the very first attack if he can dodge it.

Yes, but with the lightsaber tanking from Amon, do you think that will put Amon down immediately? Already some time into the fight, he will gain Heat and probably the forcefields will start to appear.

No, what I meant is, Jeane will dodge every attack from you unless she's already attacking, but she's unable to do that against Dark Step, the speed amp. Forcefield would work if he sets it up before Travis activates it tho.

If it takes time before Travis goes that way - I think the forcefield would already be up. It was like half of minute into his fight with Kiryu in Kiwami 2. If Travis is the aggressive type, Amon will go quickly for defense.

Eh, you never know. Still, I'd wager Travis can end the fight before that.

Amon activating Extreme Heat Mode

He does that pretty fast into the fight. Doesn't take him ages

Would he really, though? I mean, he knows Kiryu is an incredibly skilled warrior who's whooped his ass multiple times, but Travis looks like a scrawny nerd with a lightsaber, an anime t-shirt and a cocky personality. I doubt he'd go all out with his Random Bullshit before Travis lands some hits on him- and considering piercing damage and all, those blows might just be lethal.

The whole reason why Amon Clan wants to murder Kiryu is because So, Jo's father, had just a dream of him despite never even meeting him, and already felt he's super strong, the ultimate life-form like Jo said. I really doubt the head of the clan wouldn't know danger when they face it. Also considering Amon's also hellishly skilled, he can dodge the blows that come before speed amps kick in.

Once again Travis' opponent has the issue of having a lot of good tools but he won't use all of them at once, and IMO this time they don't really have the punch to guarantee a win even if used, so I think I'll vote Travis for now.

He won't use all of them at once, it's impossible. It's kind obvious that he will adapt to his opponent though. That's what Amon does. He constantly switches styles, tactics, moveset mid-fight. If the speed-amp attack does not kill him IMMEDIATELY, I very much doubt Travis can come out alive from what would come next. Like I said, Amon is the type to go all out when shit hits the fan, it's the whole reason his weaponry exists instead of just fighting Kiryu honorably.

 

[Armorchompy]

Yes, but with the lightsaber tanking from Amon, do you think that will put Amon down immediately? Already some time into the fight, he will gain Heat and probably the forcefields will start to appear.

Imma be real, I still do, he doesn't have any feats of tanking cutting stuff that's at least equal to him in AP. Keep in mind beam katanas can effortlessly cut through those comparable or superior in AP to the wielder. Normal lightsabers are just heat, but Beam Katanas also have a physical component to their blows, which is evident from an increase in strength leading to an increase in damage in-game. Travis' current Beam Katana is also far stronger than a "baseline" Beam Katana if you wanna do that.

If it takes time before Travis goes that way - I think the forcefield would already be up. It was like half of minute into his fight with Kiryu in Kiwami 2. If Travis is the aggressive type, Amon will go quickly for defense.

He does favor offense, though he doesn't suck at defense. That said, I think Travis' Instinctive Reaction gets him a dodge before the forcefield comes out.

The whole reason why Amon Clan wants to murder Kiryu is because So, Jo's father, had just a dream of him despite never even meeting him, and already felt he's super strong, the ultimate life-form like Jo said. I really doubt the head of the clan wouldn't know danger when they face it. Also considering Amon's also hellishly skilled, he can dodge the blows that come before speed amps kick in.

I mean, you're just giving me more of a reason he wouldn't immediately use the tough stuff against a random nerd. Not that I doubt he'd pull it out quickly, I'm just saying starting out far away doesn't matter much.

He won't use all of them at once, it's impossible. It's kind obvious that he will adapt to his opponent though. That's what Amon does. He constantly switches styles, tactics, moveset mid-fight. If the speed-amp attack does not kill him IMMEDIATELY, I very much doubt Travis can come out alive from what would come next. Like I said, Amon is the type to go all out when shit hits the fan, it's the whole reason his weaponry exists instead of just fighting Kiryu honorably.

Eventually, Amon definitely takes out Travis through superior random bullshit, but Travis is really hard to wear down, and he's constantly gonna be breathing on his neck, dark stepping away from any attempt at a direct counter- it's gonna be risky for Jo to attempt and disengage to USE that random bullshit.

 

[SpookyShadow]

This time I'm going to sleep, I'll try respond tomorrow

I'll just address the point with bladed weapons - Heat can block bladed weapons. Kiryu has a move named Dragon God's Ward that guards against bullets and blades. Amon should know it due to studying already far more complex Kiryu's moves than that (as well as his entire being, he even went on a trip to beat Komaki's ass, the guy who taught Kiryu most special Heat moves)

 

[Armorchompy]

I mean, that's a defensive stance you need to specifically use, it's not something passive. The fact that it's needed proves that without it blades would effect him.

Also, goodnight (-:

 

[SpookyShadow]

Aight, can respond finally.

KLOL told me that Amon can use Akiyama's and Mine's moveset, so another skill so some additional agility, because Akiyama is agile as hell, and Mine also is (worth to note he's also the strongest Yakuza antagonist, posing threat to Kiryu despite losing)

I mean, that's a defensive stance you need to specifically use, it's not something passive. The fact that it's needed proves that without it blades would effect him.

It's just holding guard. It's nothing difficult to hold his hands in front of his head.

Imma be real, I still do, he doesn't have any feats of tanking cutting stuff that's at least equal to him in AP. Keep in mind beam katanas can effortlessly cut through those comparable or superior in AP to the wielder. Normal lightsabers are just heat, but Beam Katanas also have a physical component to their blows, which is evident from an increase in strength leading to an increase in damage in-game. Travis' current Beam Katana is also far stronger than a "baseline" Beam Katana if you wanna do that.

Ok, but Amon is the stronger one here (above 1.11 times, with amps even more), and if he enters Extreme Heat Mode (which will happen quickly), he gains a VERY hefty advantage in durability. Forcefield would help him even more. Like I mentioned, Amon has Dragon God's Ward which blocks bladed weapons (bullets as well). He can hold guard in Extreme Heat Mode.

He does favor offense, though he doesn't suck at defense. That said, I think Travis' Instinctive Reaction gets him a dodge before the forcefield comes out.

Fair enough. That's before random bullshit goes in his way.

I mean, you're just giving me more of a reason he wouldn't immediately use the tough stuff against a random nerd. Not that I doubt he'd pull it out quickly, I'm just saying starting out far away doesn't matter much.

Like I said - he doesn't use tough stuff immediately against Kiryu or Majima either. It's just a little bit into the fight. 25-30 seconds? Something like that from what I've seen in the fights (and from my fight with Amon, even if I fought him just once )

Eventually, Amon definitely takes out Travis through superior random bullshit, but Travis is really hard to wear down, and he's constantly gonna be breathing on his neck, dark stepping away from any attempt at a direct counter- it's gonna be risky for Jo to attempt and disengage to USE that random bullshit.

Well, you can forget about my Tiger Drop one shot argument, but Amon can still counter Travis before the amps. It's pretty fortunate for him that Travis uses the amps probably around the same time Amon goes into Heat modes.

I'll also note, Kiryu's enemies also do not have time to react to Rush, just like Travis' enemies. I do think that Travis has the better amp because it's almost like he teleports, but Rush would help Amon to dodge some attacks. Not necessarily match the amp if he can't react, but if he survives the attack flurry after the amp kicks in (I believe he can survive, like I mentioned in my second point), he will have better circumstances and preparation to deal with it again.

 

[Armorchompy]

I'm sorry but I think you're really underselling Dark Step in your post. It's like, absolutely not reactable, in any way. Keep in mind, a simple movement from his enemies, such as raising your arms in the video I showed you, takes its whole duration to go about halfway through. It's the textbook definition of a blitz- too fast to defend against for someone of previously comparable speed.

So, if Jo has a guard to protect him against stabs, he won't be able to pull it up in time, but that doesn't really matter either, as Dark Step usually slides you to the enemy's side, and that'll allow Travis to easily attack past his guard anyway.

Anyway, a base beam katana can cut through people who're >= Travis and the Tsubaki Mk III he's currently using is so much better (Blood Berry, the starting Beam Katana < Tsubaki Mk I < Tsubaki Mk II =< Tsubaki Mk II with amplifier = Tsubaki Mk III =< Tsubaki Mk III with amplifier, which is what he uses) that it totally makes up for Jo upscaling from his own 0.111 feat. Nevermind that even the Blood Berry can block the entirety of the beam that the 0.1 feat comes from, and that beam did that feat with its very end, so it's likely even stronger.

Also, Travis wouldn't wait to use his amps- odds are as soon as he's got a chance to do them, he will, and a single dodge is enough.

... Kashiwagi literally starts blocking Kiryu's blows two seconds after your timestamp. And that's consistent, if you walk up to a boss and try to punch them with Rush, they'll block most of them if you're not to their side or catch them mid-attack.

 

[SpookyShadow]

Wait... That kinda contradicts what I've heard earlier. If he won't wait to use the amps wouldn't that make a blitz in Travis' favor (therefore a stomp)? Like, if he can really one-shot him and blitz him, there's no way he can win