The Multiversal Undertale CRT

[Rodri_"Dante"]

They are talking about a different timeline, yes. The Genocide-Pacifist Route was seemingly their objective given how they disapprove a second genocide playthrough and even suggests you going another path.

Then what was their confusion about you re opening the game all about?

 

[GodlyCharmander]

Then what was their confusion about you re opening the game all about?

An act. Chara is very clearly a manipulator in that situation. Trying to provoke the player into giving their SOUL.

 

[Moritzva]

Playing a bit of devil's advocate here, but Chara's statement gets contradicted with this interpretation.

"Let's erase this pointless world and move on to the next"

If "this world = this timeline", then shouldn't "the next = another timeline"?
Is Chara changing what world means mid sentence? Is the void you end up meant to be "the next world"?

Honestly, what confuses me about this entire argument is how this statement has seemingly just been… looked over.

If Chara says “Let’s erase this timeline (one) and move onto the next (another)”, that’s just one timeline being destroyed. Just because there are multiple timelines doesn’t mean you get 2-B from destroying one of them.

If the assumption is that Chara destroyed every timeline at once and “worlds” doesn’t mean timeline, well, that doesn’t make a lot of sense either. The OP’s proposal itself relies on the idea that there are multiple timelines based on the things said on the topic of resetting. That creates a very strong basis of argument relying on the fact that resetting proves there are multiple timelines. However, it then randomly jumps from the reasonable conclusion that there are multiple timelines, all the way to the conclusion that Chara can destroy all of them, with nothing to bridge that gap.

I read the OP over and over again, and it doesn’t actually prove how Resetting resets multiple timelines, just that there are multiple in the first place. The plurality of Sans’ statement can easily be achieved by resetting multiple times (and is even supported, as “timelines jumping left and right, stopping and starting” wouldn’t adequately describe literally all timelines doing so at the same time, nor would it adequately describe resetting and reversing all timelines back to the start, but it would adequately describe a rogue agent resetting individual timelines and jumping around them over and over), and Chara’s statement of destroying one world and leaving for the next can very clearly bee seen as destroying everything in one timeline and leaving for the next one.

In the end, OP didn’t provide any evidence definitively proving the destruction of multiple timelines at once, just that there are multiple timelines in the first place. Even if you take all the assumptions made to prove multiple timelines as fact, there simply isn’t any evidence implying they’ve all been destroyed. This is an important distinction, and because OP’s argument relies too heavily on open-ended interpretation at best and outright logical leaps at worst, I am inclined to disagree.

 

[GodlyCharmander]

Honestly, what confuses me about this entire argument is how this statement has seemingly just been… looked over.

If Chara says “Let’s erase this timeline (one) and move onto the next (another)”, that’s just one timeline being destroyed. Just because there are multiple timelines doesn’t mean you get 2-B from destroying one of them.

If the assumption is that Chara destroyed every timeline at once and “worlds” doesn’t mean timeline, well, that doesn’t make a lot of sense either. The OP’s proposal itself relies on the idea that there are multiple timelines based on the things said on the topic of resetting. That creates a very strong basis of argument relying on the fact that resetting proves there are multiple timelines. However, it then randomly jumps from the reasonable conclusion that there are multiple timelines, all the way to the conclusion that Chara can destroy all of them, with nothing to bridge that gap.

I read the OP over and over again, and it doesn’t actually prove how Resetting resets multiple timelines, just that there are multiple in the first place. The plurality of Sans’ statement can easily be achieved by resetting multiple times (and is even supported, as “timelines jumping left and right, stopping and starting” wouldn’t adequately describe literally all timelines doing so at the same time, nor would it adequately describe resetting and reversing all timelines back to the start, but it would adequately describe a rogue agent resetting individual timelines and jumping around them over and over), and Chara’s statement of destroying one world and leaving for the next can very clearly bee seen as destroying everything in one timeline and leaving for the next one.

In the end, OP didn’t provide any evidence definitively proving the destruction of multiple timelines at once, just that there are multiple timelines in the first place. Even if you take all the assumptions made to prove multiple timelines as fact, there simply isn’t any evidence implying they’ve all been destroyed. This is an important distinction, and because OP’s argument relies too heavily on open-ended interpretation at best and outright logical leaps at worst, I am inclined to disagree.

What I've been trying to say put into more eloquent words, thank you very much.

 

[Rodri_"Dante"]

An act. Chara is very clearly a manipulator in that situation. Trying to provoke the player into giving their SOUL.

So Chara is honest about their intentions before destroying the world, but after the fact they shame the player for their actions even though it was all a part of the plan they were so open about before?

If the assumption is that Chara destroyed every timeline at once and “worlds” doesn’t mean timeline, well, that doesn’t make a lot of sense either.

The way I understand it, from how Chara describes themselves and their relation to the player (Defining themselves as the feeling of RPG stats going up, and saying they will be "together forever" if the player agrees to destroy the world), "this world" would mean the game and "move on to the next" is basically "go play something else".

 

[Eficiente]

Eficiente, I've seen you do this in a bunch of other threads so I thought I'd speak up. Regardless whether you're right or wrong (and I genuinely have no idea, I don't care for the topic) you're blatantly insulting the intelligence of OP and everyone who agreed based on your own subjective opinion. You haven't been insulted, you haven't been treated rudely, nothing has even remotely warranted this.

Tone it down, you don't get to act like you're the smartest person in the room just because you've got a brown tag under your name and you definitely don't get to act like everyone else is a moron.

Well, what you mean intelligence in this context? General intelligence I'm not touching, I'm going over the care put into this thread, problems being there, it's not possible to not sound like I'm "insulting" intelligence in that area because I'm pointing out and deconstructing the errors there It sounds insulting because I'm explaining a blog being mostly ignored while the things not ignored it had get replied with minor explanations that the blog can't be updated with, because I'm pointing out that the people agreeing with the thread didn't evaluate it in an optimum/standard way, and I portrayed it as it is, which is not the same as anyone simply making a CRT, being wrong on its topics and people agreeing anyway, both positions anyone can be in but this not being the same case as I explained. I'm not "blatantly insulting" intelligence, that's just oppressive from people who feel bad from what I said. I consider that I laid things down so that anyone may improve from this thread, which I don't consider is something that can happen if one doesn't explain the situation around. As in, if I were to limit myself to say here the same I would say in a regular CRT that's wrong and has people agreeing that are wrong then that would be an issue as it trivializes problems that can be can be solved by first acknowledging they exist.

At the very least, I do agree that 2 lines I said in the thread were a bit off, but I heavily disagree with this being "blatantly insulting" intelligence and believe that portray it as such is oppressive due to not being true. I didn't act like everyone else is a moron by pointing out how the people making/evaluating this thread did not make that small apport well and how so, it's just easiler to feel like one is being treated as a moron & point a finger at the one who did that than to see what's up with the "gravity" of they said (Again, a comparison being any CRT being wrong & people agreeing anyway, which would have less "ladders").

 

[Moritzva]

First off, dear god Eficiente, break up your sentences. One of those had eight commas in it. I genuinely can't tell what half of what you said is supposed to mean.

What I did get, however, was that a large number of people are clearly taking your words as offensive and crass. I agree with this, as you tend to add a lot of unnecessary, insulting filler (e.g. calling the opposition pushover and calling the entire matter worthless). These are non-arguments, and if they aren't meant to be insults, what are they? Statements of nothingness that you don't intend to be rude with?

Bottom line, focus on actually debating over making rude gestures, regardless of if you see them as rude or not.

 

[Roachman40]

Alright before I actually go into my counter arguments, I want to clarify something about the 2-B.

Resets definitely has to create new timelines, looping through the same 100 timelines doesn't really make much sense if we agree that an old timeline starts and a new one begins. For example, if we where just looping through the same timelines we will inevitably end up having two frisks in the same timeline due to the fact you would just be dropping your frisk into another timeline with an already existing frisk. And if a RESET was just reversing time in a timeline, that wouldn't explain why some characters still have deja-vu of the previous timeline, as time travel would have prevented the forming those memories, y'know?

This was probably already clear to the peeps watching this thread, but just wanted to clarify.

They don't. The game, the metaphysical reality which we consider as a game, the executable, does not have all these timelines loaded in at all. If you're arguing a meta-destruction of the game itself, you have to acknowledge the fact the game isn't using any of it's memory to do anything with these timelines, they aren't stored anywhere, they aren't even acknowledged in the files except the FUN Values, which doesn't hold them, it just tells which timeline the game has to interpret. Chara only destroyed the timeline the player and the game were in.

Now, if you want to argue that Chara destroyed not only the game, but all the cosmology, you'd need to prove that. These are not mutually inclusive at all.

I might not be wording this correctly, but just because ‘they aren't in the game files’ doesn't mean they just don't exist in the game world. First of all the game storing a file for every single timeline probably wouldn’t be ideal from a development standpoint, especially considering how many they're are. games have had statements of multiple universes existing, but just because the game doesn't choose to just, make a bunch of files for those specific universes doesn't mean that the game world only hosts one universe, as they still exist and are acknowledged in the games world, if you get what I mean. Thirdly if only one timeline was destroyed, what's stopping the player from just going to another timeline?

In short, what I'm getting from your statement is that 'anything in a game not directly part of the game and just in the lore doesn't count really', which I don't think is true at all for reasons already explained.

False Equivalency, the word "Sekai/World" (like in the Japanese version) can mean multiple things. Asriel refers to the timeline as "world" too. It doesn't stick to one single context because Toby said it once.

Characters have specified when they are talking about a timeline, though, and while yes the word could mean multiple things depending on the context, I feel in many interactions characters do refer to the game itself as a ‘World’. Chara's dialogue is a good example I would say, when they say ‘world’ they are clearly referring to the game itself. the files that are in the game are gone, all that is left is chara in the void, everything was destroyed. And to prove my point even further, the game box shakes when they attack.

Also, unrelated to my points above, but why use the Japanese version? I get that Toby Fox also made the japanese version, but undertale is a western verse my friend. The English version's dialogue should hold more credibility overall.

 

[Saikou_The_Lewd_King]

Yeah I agree with this.

Chara's destruction cannot logically be limited to a single timeline. Going by the above interpretation, the Player and Frisk both can easily access other timelines. And a True Reset itself brings the Player back to a neutral timeline (As opposed to whatever nonsense might have happened in other timelines). Yet Chara's deed made it so the Player is absolutely unable to continue experiencing any parts of Undertale. A single timeline destruction would have absolutely not prevented the player from continuing to play Undertale in another timeline. Only when Chara brings the world back does the Player gain access back to anything related to the game.

We can further add to this that Asriel's timeline destruction did not affect the game world like Chara did, and that after this, Asriel could continue "destroying the world", implying a world beyond a single timeline.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

I still agree via Saikou's reason.

Also, I agree with ArmorChompy and Moritzva regarding your behavior Eficiente. This was not the first time you have commented like that and a few other staff members have been receiving warnings and even demotions for expressing attitudes less condescending than those comments. You do need to learn to be more respectful to the community staff or not.

 

[RethPo]

We can further add to this that Asriel's timeline destruction did not affect the game world like Chara did, and that after this, Asriel could continue "destroying the world", implying a world beyond a single timeline.

Ive always argued this on the multiversal interpretation. If asriel destroying the world extends beyond one timeline, performs a true reset, and basically has the same effect on the game that chara does (minus the black mark chara leaves although asriel never fully does it in the end), then he should qualify for multiversal at full power (plus he is trying to in some way cease control of the game and reset everything endlessly). Though atm the wiki decided his hyper goner doesnt destroy the timeline and world destruction does instead which, im pretty unsure abut there.

 

[GodlyCharmander]

Alright before I actually go into my counter arguments, I want to clarify something about the 2-B.

Resets definitely has to create new timelines, looping through the same 100 timelines doesn't really make much sense if we agree that an old timeline starts and a new one begins. For example, if we where just looping through the same timelines we will inevitably end up having two frisks in the same timeline due to the fact you would just be dropping your frisk into another timeline with an already existing frisk. And if a RESET was just reversing time in a timeline, that wouldn't explain why some characters still have deja-vu of the previous timeline, as time travel would have prevented the forming those memories, y'know?

This was probably already clear to the peeps watching this thread, but just wanted to clarify.

I might not be wording this correctly, but just because ‘they aren't in the game files’ doesn't mean they just don't exist in the game world. First of all the game storing a file for every single timeline probably wouldn’t be ideal from a development standpoint, especially considering how many they're are. games have had statements of multiple universes existing, but just because the game doesn't choose to just, make a bunch of files for those specific universes doesn't mean that the game world only hosts one universe, as they still exist and are acknowledged in the games world, if you get what I mean. Thirdly if only one timeline was destroyed, what's stopping the player from just going to another timeline?

In short, what I'm getting from your statement is that 'anything in a game not directly part of the game and just in the lore doesn't count really', which I don't think is true at all for reasons already explained.

Characters have specified when they are talking about a timeline, though, and while yes the word could mean multiple things depending on the context, I feel in many interactions characters do refer to the game itself as a ‘World’. Chara's dialogue is a good example I would say, when they say ‘world’ they are clearly referring to the game itself. the files that are in the game are gone, all that is left is chara in the void, everything was destroyed. And to prove my point even further, the game box shakes when they attack.

I'll rush through these.

"You have to be creating new timelines because you'd go to a new one where Frisk exists".

Resetting stops one timeline and starts a new one, and rips everyone from the current timeline to the new one. There wouldn't be a second frisk or a second anyone in these timelines because they are removed from the previous one. It does not fabricate timelines out of thin air.

Again, do not use the "other sans-es" line as evidence, as it refers to Sans himself with different memories from another path, which is still him.

Roach, you're actively strawmanning my argument. You are claiming that destroying the game itself, the files, is evidence for Chara destroying the multiverse in-universe. It is not, because the game doesn't store the multiverse in it's files. This is clear as we can be.

Now, if you want to argue Chara destroyed the in-universe game world itself, you'd need to prove that, you haven't done it. Chara has just shown to destroy a singular world outside of the potentially 100. Again, no, the asriel fight references the timeline as world in a phrase, the word timeline only appears later on implying it was what world meant.

Also, unrelated to my points above, but why use the Japanese version? I get that Toby Fox also made the japanese version, but undertale is a western verse my friend. The English version's dialogue should hold more credibility overall.

Because it may clear Toby's intentions. I'm not prioritizing it whatsoever.

Yeah I agree with this.

Chara's destruction cannot logically be limited to a single timeline. Going by the above interpretation, the Player and Frisk both can easily access other timelines. And a True Reset itself brings the Player back to a neutral timeline (As opposed to whatever nonsense might have happened in other timelines). Yet Chara's deed made it so the Player is absolutely unable to continue experiencing any parts of Undertale. A single timeline destruction would have absolutely not prevented the player from continuing to play Undertale in another timeline. Only when Chara brings the world back does the Player gain access back to anything related to the game.

We can further add to this that Asriel's timeline destruction did not affect the game world like Chara did, and that after this, Asriel could continue "destroying the world", implying a world beyond a single timeline.

Asriel did not destroy the timeline with the Hyper Goner, we already decided that several threads ago, and you will not act like it's an accepted fact in this wiki. Asriel started to destroy the timeline, and in his true form, it's said that "the world is ending", world being timeline in this context for obvious reasons, as that's the scale the battle puts itself to. You want to claim it's a infinitesimally higher scale, you'd need to provide me evidence of the fight even intending to tackle this level of power. World means Timeline.

Furthermore, it was not Asriel's plans to destroy all the timelines, he wishes to reset the timeline back to zero to force Frisk to do another Pacifist Route. He has no reason to destroy the multiverse, it goes actively against his Character.


The argument that
"Frisk can't access other timelines = They are not there" is beyond goofy.

Frisk has to reset the timeline they are currently in to access a new one through this reset. It actively works by ripping everyone from their current timeline and shoving them into the next. There is no Current Timeline, they can't access another timeline if they are not in a timeline.

So, they can't SAVE because the current timeline is gone. They can't load because the current timeline is gone. They can't reset (and start a new timeline) because the current one is gone.

There is no evidence of Chara destroying on a Multiversal scale, nada. Chara's plan is to get the Player's SOUL under the promise of the restoration of the world. (Also apparently they can also recreate the entire multiverse out of thin air essily while possessing a lower power than Asriel, who was slowly destroying one).
To lure them into a Pacifist Route.
And then kill everyone manually.

They never wanted to destroy the multiverse. Never. They wanted to move on to the next Timeline so Chara could influence the barrier opening so all humanity, which they hated greatly, could die by their hands.

 

[GodlyCharmander]

So, I was revising evidence for my reply, and I changed my mind entirely.

Not because of your guy's arguments, they were sprout of confirmation bias imho, and didn't do a great job at proving Multiversal Chara.

I, however, accept that "world" in Chara's context does mean multiverse and all the timelines in it, not due to Frisk not accessing other timelines, or because Toby used world in a certain way in an interview, no, these are silly.
But because, if you beat the Genocide Route twice in a row:

• ...
• But.
• You and I are not the same, are we?
• This SOUL resonates with a strange feeling.
• There is a reason you continue to recreate this world.
• There is a reason you continue to destroy it.
• You.
• You are wracked with a perverted sentimentality.
• Hmm.
• I cannot understand these feelings anymore.
• Despite this.
• I feel obligated to suggest.
• Should you choose to create this world once more.
• Another path would be better suited.
• Now, partner.
• Let us send this world back into the abyss.

[Erase]

• Right. You are a great partner.
• We'll be together forever, won't we?

[Do Not]

• No...?
• Hmm... This feeling you have.
• This is what I spoke of.
• Unfortunately, regarding this...
• YOU MADE YOUR CHOICE LONG AGO.

Basically, this conversation tells us, directly, that the term "World" is encompassing all the paths the player can choose, and said paths are within the world. Paths are timelines. Meaning Chara was saying the world as in, "The World of Undertale" rather than "The World we are in right now".

I now find myself in agreement with the CRT.

 

[Moritzva]

Frankly, with the variety of reasons, rationales, and directions the supporters of this CRT are taking, it would do us a lot of good for Wasp to truly clarify what he is supporting, why, and who scales. The OP itself only truly proves that there are multiple universes, but doesn't really go into detail about anything else.

I really don't think this can move forward, even with a lot of people agreeing, if nobody is agreeing for the same reasons.

 

[GodlyCharmander]

Frankly, with the variety of reasons, rationales, and directions the supporters of this CRT are taking, it would do us a lot of good for Wasp to truly clarify what he is supporting, why, and who scales. The OP itself only truly proves that there are multiple universes, but doesn't really go into detail about anything else.

I really don't think this can move forward, even with a lot of people agreeing, if nobody is agreeing for the same reasons.

I believe I gave a solid reasoning as to why Chara referred to the entire multiverse when they said "Let us destroy this world". Could I get your thoughts on it?

 

[Moritzva]

I believe I gave a solid reasoning as to why Chara referred to the entire multiverse when they said "Let us destroy this world". Could I get your thoughts on it?

It is a reasonable interpretation on its own, imo, but doesn't necessarily imply that anyone besides Chara would scale. I do get the idea behind it, but the OP didn't make it clear how (even if we accept the interpretation of multiple timelines and Chara destroying all of them) it would scale to anyone else.

 

[GodlyCharmander]

It is a reasonable interpretation on its own, imo, but doesn't necessarily imply that anyone besides Chara would scale. I do get the idea behind it, but the OP didn't make it clear how (even if we accept the interpretation of multiple timelines and Chara destroying all of them) it would scale to anyone else.

I believe OP only wants Chara to scale given the conclusion.

Given how it seems like the interpretation brought up by the second genocide is more reasonable, I'll suggest the OP to include it in their argument, as well as clarifying their intent behind the thread.

 

[Roachman40]

To clarify my intent behind the thread

I was trying to prove that multiple timelines exist in the game world, a 2-B amount of them as already explained, and considering that chara destroys the game world, they would be 2-B. Also said in the conclusion, I'd think asriel would possibly scale to the 2-B as well due to the nature of the true reset, of which he was gonna do.

 

[GodlyCharmander]

I do not think Asriel would scale to this. As said before, the True Reset does two things. It deletes all data from a particular run, and rips everyone from the current timeline.

 

[KingPin0422]

For the reset stuff, there are two details that might be worth considering:

1. Following a true reset, you are given the option to rename Chara, something that doesn't happen after a regular reset - it simply reuses the name you gave originally, saying "A name has already been chosen."
2. The only two characters who have the power to do a true reset are Asriel and the Player. Notably, Asriel has the power to destroy the barrier (and he does so after you spare him), and the Player is only offered the option after a Pacifist Run, when the barrier has been destroyed.

As for Sans' statement, I'd like to throw in the possibility that the (true?) reset is what he means when he says "everything ends." Look at his fight dialogue more closely:

our reports showed a massive anomaly in the timespace continuum.
timelines jumping left and right, stopping and starting...
until suddenly, everything ends.
heh heh heh... that's your fault, isn't it?
you can't understand how this feels.
knowing that one day, without any warning...
it's all going to be reset.
look. i gave up trying to go back a long time ago.
and getting to the surface doesn't really appeal anymore, either.
cause even if we do...
we'll just end up right back here, without any memory of it, right?

Also this:

sounds strange, but before all this i was secretly hoping we could be friends.
i always thought the anomaly was doing this cause they were unhappy.
and when they got what they wanted, they would stop all this.
and maybe all they needed was... i dunno.
some good food, some bad laughs, some nice friends.
but that's ridiculous, right?
yeah, you're the type of person who won't EVER be happy.
you'll keep consuming timelines over and over, until...
well.
hey.
take it from me, kid.
someday...
you gotta learn when to QUIT.

 

[KingPin0422]

Actually, I'd like to add something real quick:

“*Everyone will be ripped from this timeline...
*…and sent back before all of this ever happened.
*Nobody will remember anything.”

This statement does not exactly contradict the existence of multiple timelines at all. It is saying that the current timeline now stops, and that another timeline is starting anew via RESET. Not exactly important but something worthy to note is that flowey says this timeline, not the timeline, which also kind of implies that there isn't just a singular timeline.

I'm not so sure about this one. For one, Flowey clearly notes there that this is the same power he tried to use as Asriel, indicating that what Asriel was going to do was exactly what Flowey says you can do now: rip everyone out of the current timeline and send them back to before the events of the Pacifist Route happened. This is consistent with Asriel's own monologue:

You know... I don't care about destroying this world anymore.
After I defeat you and gain total control over the timeline... I just want to reset everything.
All your progress... Everyone's memories. I'll bring them all back to zero!

Asriel outright tells you that he doesn't want to destroy the world anymore, just reset it all. Also note that he says he will defeat Frisk and gain total control over the timeline. This is important to note because if Asriel could just carry out the reset immediately, he'd go right ahead and do it without even bothering to fight Frisk. Now let's look at some text from after he reveals his full power:

I can feel it... Every time you die, your grip on this world slips away. Every time you die, your friends forget you a little more. Your life will end here, in a world where no one remembers you...

This, again, is consistent with what Asriel says he will do: he'll kill Frisk, take control of the timeline away from them, and then reset the timeline, undoing all of Frisk's progress along with everyone's memories. That's even the premise of the Lost Soul sections: Frisk's friends are losing their memories of them, and they have to remind them of the good times they had. All of this makes it clear that even with Frisk refusing their deaths, Asriel's reset is slowly being realized. And then of course, there's this piece of flavor text:

The whole world is ending.

Which, in light of what I just said, doesn't literally mean that Asriel is destroying the game world with his mere presence or something like that, because that's explicitly not what he wants to do. If anything, it just means that Asriel's true reset is going through despite Frisk's continued resistance.

I have no issues with the other evidence presented at the moment.

EDIT: As a further addition, I'm even more strongly convinced that Hyper Goner didn't destroy the timeline. Besides the obvious question of why he would destroy a timeline he wants to gain total control over, part of the reasoning comes from him saying he will "purge" it. But that word doesn't relate to destruction at all. It just means removing someone or something unwanted from another person or thing (if you've heard of the Christian concept of Purgatory, it's basically this), and Asriel wanted to rid the timeline of Frisk's influence, hence them fighting at all. So, when Asriel says he will purge the timeline, he means that he's going to remove Frisk's control over it. This is supported by his reaction to Frisk surviving the Hyper Goner: he highlights the fact that somehow, even when he stopped messing around, he wasn't able to kill them with his strongest attack.

 

[RethPo]

The thing is with asriels context of "world". Every other time asriel referrs to world before hand hes talking about it in reference to the game. In floweys genocide dialogue he indirectly referrs to the world as the game
"I've done everything this world has to offer. I've read every book. I've burned every book. I've won every game. I've lost every game. I've appeased everyone. I've killed everyone. Sets of numbers... Lines of dialogue... I've seen them all."

The whole dialogue is a reflection of how he treats everything as a game that hes testing the limits of it and does use "world" to reflect that, and basically believes its a game of kill or be killed. Also photoshop flowey describes how hell "destroy" the world (game) by show everyone its meaning of kill or be killed tying in to what asriel said.
Idk about the hyper goner, kinda debateable. Im not sure how the hyper goner itself would take control from frisk though even if it killed them. It was literally just a powerful that attack that may or may not have sucked the timeline.

The thing about the true reset as well is that it literally has the exact same effect on the game as what chara does (minus chara taking control of frisks soul and all) and outright says that it erases our progress and sets it back to zero. And yet youre meaning to tell me its basically just a normal reset with memory erasure that has no effect on the other timelines youve created? Not only that but flowey right after his "timeline ripping" statement says that the reset outright erases everything. It sounds like hes trying to put it in nicer terms to me than actually describe whats going on.

 

[GodlyCharmander]

The thing is with asriels context of "world". Every other time asriel referrs to world before hand hes talking about it in reference to the game. In floweys genocide dialogue he indirectly referrs to the world as the game
"I've done everything this world has to offer. I've read every book. I've burned every book. I've won every game. I've lost every game. I've appeased everyone. I've killed everyone. Sets of numbers... Lines of dialogue... I've seen them all."

The whole dialogue is a reflection of how he treats everything as a game that hes testing the limits of it and does use "world" to reflect that, and basically believes its a game of kill or be killed. Also photoshop flowey describes how hell "destroy" the world (game) by show everyone its meaning of kill or be killed tying in to what asriel said.
Idk about the hyper goner, kinda debateable. Im not sure how the hyper goner itself would take control from frisk though even if it killed them. It was literally just a powerful that attack that may or may not have sucked the timeline.

The thing about the true reset as well is that it literally has the exact same effect on the game as what chara does (minus chara taking control of frisks soul and all) and outright says that it erases our progress and sets it back to zero. And yet youre meaning to tell me its basically just a normal reset with memory erasure that has no effect on the other timelines youve created? Not only that but flowey right after his "timeline ripping" statement says that the reset outright erases everything. It sounds like hes trying to put it in nicer terms to me than actually describe whats going on.

What's with the weird obsession that once a person uses a word in a particular context, they are always using it in that context?


But... I admit, this is pretty good evidence since in both situation, the timelines are the topic at hand.

 

[RethPo]

Also something to note if it hasnt been already is that the true reset at absolute worst is not limited to simply just a save file and affects time on a much larger scale, since we can change charas name at will including everyone (including asriel and charas) interpretation of their name was, meaning it affects a point in time before anybodys save file was created.

 

[GodlyCharmander]

Also something to note if it hasnt been already is that the true reset at absolute worst is not limited to simply just a save file and affects time on a much larger scale, since we can change charas name at will including everyone (including asriel and charas) interpretation of their name was, meaning it affects a point in time before anybodys save file was created.

Nah, this is getting into stretching territory. Quit while you're winning.

 

[KingPin0422]

Hmm... yeah, you got me there. I looked at Flowey's dialogue, and he does indeed suggest that everything will be reset. There's more evidence in favor of that, too:

The Sans dialogue I posted up there has him talk about "timelines jumping left and right, stopping and starting... until suddenly, everything ends," which he follows up on by talking about resets. Based on that, the normal resets refer to "timelines jumping left and right, stopping and starting," as everyone is taken out of one timeline and placed in another one, thus "stopping" the old timeline and "starting" a new one. But the old timelines clearly still exist somehow, as your choices in previous runs are remembered after a reset (the name you gave to Chara, whether you prefer cinnamon or butterscotch, whether or not you killed certain characters, etc.) Only a True Reset completely erases such memories, which would presumably be what Sans means when he says that "everything ends," as the reset now goes beyond a single timeline and affects all of them. (As a bonus, Chara erasing the world does seem similar to a true reset, with the only difference being that it's completely gone until Chara restores it manually. Case in point, after the first Genocide Ending, booting the game after subsequent Genocide Routes has it start over fresh, just like a True Reset.)

Still, I don't think Asriel should physically scale to the True Reset. I would put him at "Low 2-C, 2-B with the True Reset" since the True Reset is something he would do through his save file, just like any old reset. Asriel's own power doesn't have him do anything more than purge a single timeline from existence (if even that), and I still stand by what I said about "The whole world is ending" meaning that the True Reset was happening as Asriel killed Frisk repeatedly.

 

[RethPo]

Still, I don't think Asriel should physically scale to the True Reset. I would put him at "Low 2-C, 2-B with the True Reset" since the True Reset is something he would do through his save file, just like any old reset. Asriel's own power doesn't have him do anything more than purge a single timeline from existence (if even that), and I still stand by what I said about "The whole world is ending" meaning that the True Reset was happening as Asriel killed Frisk repeatedly.

The thing is, isnt asriels ridiculous power and determination from the souls hes absorbed what lets him do the true reset to begin with? Under normal circumstances frisk nor flowey can do true resets. Chara does it when she gains tonnes of power from your determination and does it by swinging. The player does it by pretty much no longer controlling frisk and doing it with their own power.
I get where youre coming from but, it seems strange for asriel or his magic to not scale to that "determination" when only beings given crazy power/determination can do so, and that hes like you said, basically doing it passively over time while in the middle of combat and killing frisk.

 

[Deleted member 16409]

Why won't Frisk dura scale to Chara's dura if they have same level of DT and Azzy having enough power to hurt it?

But still, Frisk has more dura than Azzy can do damage, because on a last attack Frisk didn't even died.

 

[Greatsage13th]

Yup

 

[Deleted member 16409]

If Asriel would scale to 2B, then Barrier upscale, then Great Magician upscale then... Oh wait, Asgore fought only 2 of magician, dam

 

[Deleted member 16409]

Yay, 2B UNDERTALE IS ****** BACK

 

[Greatsage13th]

Yay, 2B UNDERTALE IS ****** BACK

Thought I would never see it ever again yet here we are

 

[Deleted member 16409]

Thought I would never see it ever again yet here we are

It's like
UT never would be 9a ever again down to 9B

Then up to 9a

 

[Greatsage13th]

It's like
UT never would be 9a ever again down to 9B

Then up to 9a

Yep

 

[GodlyCharmander]

Who said it was gonna be 2-B?

 

[GodlyCharmander]

Don't commemorate yet, it's still dumb. You can go "FUN Value + 19 endings each = 1900 timelines", but this will get bonked with a simple "Player's actions are not fully fleshed out timelines".

Resets still don't create timelines.

 

[Greatsage13th]

Who said it was gonna be 2-B?

That was the general consensus innit?

 

[Deleted member 16409]

Flowey tried more than 300 ways to make Asgore give him SOULs, funny tho

 

[Deleted member 16409]

2c still good tho

But, UT is already Low1c, remember?

 

[Greatsage13th]

2c still good tho

But, UT is already Low1c, remember?

Oh yeah...I forgotten about that