The Multiversal Undertale CRT

[RethPo]

cprobably gonna split the agree votes, considering we have agreed on multiple timelines but aren't really agreeing on if there are timelines that could grant a 2-B rating.

Agree with 2-B: transcending, Darkdragonmedeus, originlima, saikou, chariot (although seems to prefer a '2-C, likely 2-B' rating), wagy (6)

Agree with 2-C: Charmander, Esseso

Neutral: Infiniteday (although leaning towards agree with 2-B, it seems)

Disagree: Eficiente, Moritza (Likely dosent disagree anymore, although gonna keep her on the disagree list until im completely sure)

I could settle with a '2-C, likely 2-B' if it comes down to it. But I suppose we will see.

Count me as neutral between 2-C and 2-B for now.

Also for fun values. While there are arguments for fun values being probability in one timeline. The graph shows probability is actually a kinda separate thing in there. The numbers would be randomly chosen every reset obviously but would be set in stone once they are. Then in the case of gaster and his followers is where you have whatever percent chance of them even appearing in that number. Make what ya will of it.

 

[KingPin0422]

Uhh... the image you linked doesn't work.

 

[FoxySonicMaster108]

just remove the "/revision/latest?cb=20210224135701" from the image link, it should work.

 

[RethPo]

Uhh... the image you linked doesn't work.

Changed the link but now its just blurry and small. https://undertale.fandom.com/wiki/Fun_Value?so=search
Just look at the wiki page and go down to fun value chart lmao

 

[StrymULTRA]

Alright, if 2-B gets accepted over 2-C (with the latter being the absolute minimum anyway), allow me to introduce two ideas on how the size of said 2-B cosmology would be:

• A: Frisk alone can go at very absolute least 115 Resets (93 endings + 12 tries against Sans + 10 tries against Asgore). Flowey obviously did much more than that, as in hundreds of resets he couldn't make Asgore show him the SOULs, and he could explore every possibility of the underground, meaning that said 2-B, as a very conservative end, should be at very absolute least in the thousands range, as is the safest assumptions for the total amounts of resets done from the characters, and doesn't go in faulty calcs with tons of assumptions.

• B: This is gonna be really controversial, but hear me out. We know that Flowey was about to Reset over Frisk's death over and over infinitely, and was actually doing so if Frisk doesn't use the SOULs to stop him, as Flowey won't get tired of so even if Frisk dies against him on purpose. As a supportive evidence, Flowey has also claimed that he would kill them even millions of times, and with his insane personality is not even that far from the truth, considering he resetted, as the minimum said, thousands of times, with Frisk/Chara being the only one who can truly entertain him, given that they're unpredictable. This actually means that the Undertale World as a game doesn't really have a cap amount the amount of timelines you can produce, and this means that the Game World is big enough to contain whatever finite amount of timeline produced from said resets. Given that the God Tiers such as Chara can indeed affect the entire game world and its files, they don't scale to just the amount of timelines in the game world, but to the game world itself, including the fact that Chara can indeed "destroy the world", and Toby reffering to that Q&A to Undertale and Deltarune as games as "worlds". My suggestion is that the God Tiers would scale from an Ad-Infinitum amount of timelines, as the game world is physically that big, given that it can contain whatever amount of timelines generated even if you make resets over and over infinitely with it not overloading. As Chara/Asriel can always destroy the game world, no matter how big it gets, given that, again, they scale to the game world itself and not just the amount of timelines.

I legit don't care if B get rejected, or both B and A in favor of just 2-C with 100 timelines, but I just wanted to express an opinion.

Godly got banned, so I don't think we have an opposition against 2-B anymore, so I assume 2-B is gonna pass.

All we have to do is to decide between Option A and B, as we can't give just slap a 2-B rating without knowing the levels of it, it would cause confusions.

These two options are the most reasonable ones imo, so please, consider choosing between one of the two.

 

[Deleted member 16409]

Well.
Undertale higher than l2c is finally back tho

 

[Greatsage13th]

Well.
Undertale higher than l2c is finally back tho

Mhm

 

[StrymULTRA]

Well.
Undertale higher than l2c is finally back tho

Can you stop repeating this? Is making the thread longer than it needs to be.

I made a question before, and I still did not get an answer.

 

[Deleted member 16409]

Godly got banned, so I don't think we have an opposition against 2-B anymore, so I assume 2-B is gonna pass.

All we have to do is to decide between Option A and B, as we can't give just slap a 2-B rating without knowing the levels of it, it would cause confusions.

These two options are the most reasonable ones imo, so please, consider choosing between one of the two.

Previous times UT was slapped 2B with "countless".

But we can just get 2c just to avoid every shitstorm, he will come back with CRT after 3 month, ya know?

 

[StrymULTRA]

Previous times UT was slapped 2B with "countless".

Which was based on literally nothing besides "well Flowey resetted a lot so must be on MWI levels", and was legit dumb, with people being in legit confusion about how far are the characters in 2-B.

But we can just get 2c just to avoid every shitstorm, he will come back with CRT after 3 month, ya know?

A blog explaining the size would greatly help tbh.

 

[Eseseso]

Godly got banned,

Ha!

 

[Deleted member 16409]

Which was based on literally nothing besides "well Flowey resetted a lot so must be on MWI levels", and was legit dumb, with people being in legit confusion about how far are the characters in 2-B.

A blog explaining the size would greatly help tbh.

Let's just slap "At least, possibly"

Ok??

 

[RethPo]

Godly got banned, so I don't think we have an opposition against 2-B anymore, so I assume 2-B is gonna pass.

All we have to do is to decide between Option A and B, as we can't give just slap a 2-B rating without knowing the levels of it, it would cause confusions.

These two options are the most reasonable ones imo, so please, consider choosing between one of the two.

Well, efi disagrees overall but idk if hes gonna be back here. Mori might still not agree?
Option b would also make them super high into 2-B and not 2-A, i think its arguable but a bit stretchy specially by wiki standards.
Also what do you think about asriel scaling? I did give my reasoning for it earlier (though derp did respond, not too sure if they still oppose the idea, i havent got down to responding to that yet).

 

[StrymULTRA]

Let's just slap "At least, possibly"

Ok??

No.

Option b would also make them super high into 2-B and not 2-A, i think its arguable but a bit stretchy specially by wiki standards.

So, you have an argument against that besides "is too high"?

Also what do you think about asriel scaling?

He should scale to the same 2-B degree as Chara.

 

[StrymULTRA]

Besides, ofc is not 2-A given you can't reset literally infinite times, however, 2-B via Ad Infinitum exists, and there are characters on this wiki which are this strong.

 

[RethPo]

So, you have an argument against that besides "is too high"?

Ehhhh not really. Im just wondering if we give the same treatment to people like dimentio who scale to a cosmology that is basically ad infinitum since people may try to argue nlf against it (ah okay examples good).

But if theres solid enough reasoning for each reset/reload having a timeline branch off when you reverse it back then i do agree with option b there since theres no real reason to assume anybody will just, lose the ability to true reset because you played for too long.

Normal resets do still reverse time back to the beginning of the save files (or to whatever save point). Under a 2-B cosmology it would mean time is getting reversed, then the previous timelines exist but get left behind, probably in stasis.

 

[StrymULTRA]

Ehhhh not really. Im just wondering if we give the same treatment to people like dimentio who scale to a cosmology that is basically ad infinitum since people may try to argue nlf against it (ah okay examples good).

We would, given that every MWI based verse is like this. Besides, they would be just baseline about the countless/Ad Infinitum/MWI/whatever you call it in 2-B, so is not that high compared to other verses anyway. The only NLF here is the game world in this case being 2-A, when nothing stated that is infinitely bigger than any amount of timelines created in it.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

I support 2-B for sure.

 

[StrymULTRA]

I support 2-B for sure.

Which option between A and B tho in what I said?

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

I think Option B actually looks good to me.

 

[Deleted member 16409]

Anyway, there was Countless 2B previous time.

That would be enough I guess.

 

[StrymULTRA]

Anyway, there was Countless 2B previous time.

Based on a really weak reasoning unlike this time. You're making things longer than they should be.

 

[Roachman40]

Agree with 2-B: transcending, Darkdragonmedeus, originlima, saikou, chariot (although seems to prefer a '2-C, likely 2-B' rating), wagy, Mav, Strym (8)

Considering the current amount of agrees, and that the discussion about 2-B has pretty much ended, seemingly, I think I can add this now.

 

[RethPo]

Agree with 2-B: transcending, Darkdragonmedeus, originlima, saikou, chariot (although seems to prefer a '2-C, likely 2-B' rating), wagy, Mav, Strym (8)

Considering the current amount of agrees, and that the discussion about 2-B has pretty much ended, seemingly, I think I can add this now.

Nnnnnope not quite yet. Like mori said, there does need to be agreement on the reasons for 2-B with the cosmology and all. And how it would be explained on the profiles.

 

[StrymULTRA]

Nnnnnope not quite yet. Like mori said, there does need to be agreement on the reasons for 2-B with the cosmology and all. And how it would be explained on the profiles.

This.

We need also an agreement on how big said 2-B is, as when Undertale was 2-B on site, there was never a true agreement on how much they scale on this tier, and we should also prevent faulty calculations given they're mostly unreliable, and vary too much given the amount of variables Flowey as explored being vague as hell.

 

[Roachman40]

aye, fair.

Alright, if 2-B gets accepted over 2-C (with the latter being the absolute minimum anyway), allow me to introduce two ideas on how the size of said 2-B cosmology would be:

• A: Frisk alone can go at very absolute least 115 Resets (93 endings + 12 tries against Sans + 10 tries against Asgore). Flowey obviously did much more than that, as in hundreds of resets he couldn't make Asgore show him the SOULs, and he could explore every possibility of the underground, meaning that said 2-B, as a very conservative end, should be at very absolute least in the thousands range, as is the safest assumptions for the total amounts of resets done from the characters, and doesn't go in faulty calcs with tons of assumptions.

• B: This is gonna be really controversial, but hear me out. We know that Flowey was about to Reset over Frisk's death over and over infinitely, and was actually doing so if Frisk doesn't use the SOULs to stop him, as Flowey won't get tired of so even if Frisk dies against him on purpose. As a supportive evidence, Flowey has also claimed that he would kill them even millions of times, and with his insane personality is not even that far from the truth, considering he resetted, as the minimum said, thousands of times, with Frisk/Chara being the only one who can truly entertain him, given that they're unpredictable. This actually means that the Undertale World as a game doesn't really have a cap amount the amount of timelines you can produce, and this means that the Game World is big enough to contain whatever finite amount of timeline produced from said resets. Given that the God Tiers such as Chara can indeed affect the entire game world and its files, they don't scale to just the amount of timelines in the game world, but to the game world itself, including the fact that Chara can indeed "destroy the world", and Toby reffering to that Q&A to Undertale and Deltarune as games as "worlds". My suggestion is that the God Tiers would scale from an Ad-Infinitum amount of timelines, as the game world is physically that big, given that it can contain whatever amount of timelines generated even if you make resets over and over infinitely with it not overloading. As Chara/Asriel can always destroy the game world, no matter how big it gets, given that, again, they scale to the game world itself and not just the amount of timelines.

I legit don't care if B get rejected, or both B and A in favor of just 2-C with 100 timelines, but I just wanted to express an opinion.

Im pretty neutral on option b but both seem like pretty alright interpretations ig, I would appreciate for others to shed there thoughts on this and which option you agree/disagree with. It would be rather nice if we can be on the same page for the cosmology.

 

[y3p_owo]

A blog explaining the size would greatly help tbh.

I mean we had one, the one that you made, but it got wiped for some reason.

 

[StrymULTRA]

I mean we had one, the one that you made, but it got wiped for some reason.

I did it because I don't agree with it anymore, besides I've proposed two better alternatives.

 

[y3p_owo]

Ah, ok.

 

[StrymULTRA]

Ah, ok.

So, which you choose between the A and B?

 

[FoxySonicMaster108]

I don't know where 2-A even comes from, but I definitely agree on 2-B (Option B to be exact)

 

[Comiphorous]

Option B seems fine.

 

[StrymULTRA]

I don't know where 2-A even comes from, but I definitely agree on 2-B (Option B to be exact)

I said 2-A ain't coming as that'd be the NLF case.

 

[y3p_owo]

So, which you choose between the A and B?

After going over the two, Option B make more sense.

I don't know where 2-A even comes from, but I definitely agree on 2-B (Option B to be exact)

I believe it comes from Asriel's infinite stats iirc? I might be wrong though.

 

[StrymULTRA]

I believe it comes from Asriel's infinite stats iirc? I might be wrong though.

Nah it comes from this

We would, given that every MWI based verse is like this. Besides, they would be just baseline about the countless/Ad Infinitum/MWI/whatever you call it in 2-B, so is not that high compared to other verses anyway. The only NLF here is the game world in this case being 2-A, when nothing stated that is infinitely bigger than any amount of timelines created in it.

But as you see I explained instead that we ain't making it 2-A because it is the NLF in this case. Infinite stats don't mean anything as every Tier 2 is infinitely above any kind of 3D AP.

 

[RethPo]

I believe it comes from Asriel's infinite stats iirc? I might be wrong though.

That was just from scaling him infinitely above photoshop flowey which has issues on his own, but floweys 8-A now so.

 

[FoxySonicMaster108]

why exactly is Photoshop Flowey only 8-A now if I may ask?

 

[StrymULTRA]

why exactly is Photoshop Flowey only 8-A now if I may ask?

x6 Frisk's peak (which is 8-B), and anything thar proves him being above Chara was debunked to oblivion already since years.

 

[RethPo]

why exactly is Photoshop Flowey only 8-A now if I may ask?

His reasoning for scaling to chara was faulty. And his manipulation of save files was really just time manipulation and wasnt enough for 2-C.

 

[FoxySonicMaster108]

Ah, I honestly thought Omega Flowey just massively downscaled from Asriel tbh, didn't think he scaled to Chara at all.