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The Multiversal Undertale CRT

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Roachman40 said:
cprobably gonna split the agree votes, considering we have agreed on multiple timelines but aren't really agreeing on if there are timelines that could grant a 2-B rating.

Agree with 2-B: transcending, Darkdragonmedeus, originlima, saikou, chariot (although seems to prefer a '2-C, likely 2-B' rating), wagy (6)

Agree with 2-C: Charmander, Esseso

Neutral: Infiniteday (although leaning towards agree with 2-B, it seems)

Disagree: Eficiente, Moritza (Likely dosent disagree anymore, although gonna keep her on the disagree list until im completely sure)

I could settle with a '2-C, likely 2-B' if it comes down to it. But I suppose we will see.
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Count me as neutral between 2-C and 2-B for now.

Also for fun values. While there are arguments for fun values being probability in one timeline. The graph shows probability is actually a kinda separate thing in there. The numbers would be randomly chosen every reset obviously but would be set in stone once they are. Then in the case of gaster and his followers is where you have whatever percent chance of them even appearing in that number. Make what ya will of it.
 
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StrymULTRA said:
Alright, if 2-B gets accepted over 2-C (with the latter being the absolute minimum anyway), allow me to introduce two ideas on how the size of said 2-B cosmology would be:
  • A: Frisk alone can go at very absolute least 115 Resets (93 endings + 12 tries against Sans + 10 tries against Asgore). Flowey obviously did much more than that, as in hundreds of resets he couldn't make Asgore show him the SOULs, and he could explore every possibility of the underground, meaning that said 2-B, as a very conservative end, should be at very absolute least in the thousands range, as is the safest assumptions for the total amounts of resets done from the characters, and doesn't go in faulty calcs with tons of assumptions.


I legit don't care if B get rejected, or both B and A in favor of just 2-C with 100 timelines, but I just wanted to express an opinion.
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Godly got banned, so I don't think we have an opposition against 2-B anymore, so I assume 2-B is gonna pass.

All we have to do is to decide between Option A and B, as we can't give just slap a 2-B rating without knowing the levels of it, it would cause confusions.

These two options are the most reasonable ones imo, so please, consider choosing between one of the two.
 
Well.
Undertale higher than l2c is finally back tho
 
StrymULTRA said:
Godly got banned, so I don't think we have an opposition against 2-B anymore, so I assume 2-B is gonna pass.

All we have to do is to decide between Option A and B, as we can't give just slap a 2-B rating without knowing the levels of it, it would cause confusions.

These two options are the most reasonable ones imo, so please, consider choosing between one of the two.
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Previous times UT was slapped 2B with "countless".

But we can just get 2c just to avoid every shitstorm, he will come back with CRT after 3 month, ya know?
 
Originlima said:
Previous times UT was slapped 2B with "countless".
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Which was based on literally nothing besides "well Flowey resetted a lot so must be on MWI levels", and was legit dumb, with people being in legit confusion about how far are the characters in 2-B.
Originlima said:
But we can just get 2c just to avoid every shitstorm, he will come back with CRT after 3 month, ya know?
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A blog explaining the size would greatly help tbh.
 
StrymULTRA said:
Which was based on literally nothing besides "well Flowey resetted a lot so must be on MWI levels", and was legit dumb, with people being in legit confusion about how far are the characters in 2-B.

A blog explaining the size would greatly help tbh.
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Let's just slap "At least, possibly"

Ok??
 
StrymULTRA said:
Godly got banned, so I don't think we have an opposition against 2-B anymore, so I assume 2-B is gonna pass.

All we have to do is to decide between Option A and B, as we can't give just slap a 2-B rating without knowing the levels of it, it would cause confusions.

These two options are the most reasonable ones imo, so please, consider choosing between one of the two.
Click to expand...
Well, efi disagrees overall but idk if hes gonna be back here. Mori might still not agree?
Option b would also make them super high into 2-B and not 2-A, i think its arguable but a bit stretchy specially by wiki standards.
Also what do you think about asriel scaling? I did give my reasoning for it earlier (though derp did respond, not too sure if they still oppose the idea, i havent got down to responding to that yet).
 
StrymULTRA said:
So, you have an argument against that besides "is too high"?
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Ehhhh not really. Im just wondering if we give the same treatment to people like dimentio who scale to a cosmology that is basically ad infinitum since people may try to argue nlf against it (ah okay examples good).

But if theres solid enough reasoning for each reset/reload having a timeline branch off when you reverse it back then i do agree with option b there since theres no real reason to assume anybody will just, lose the ability to true reset because you played for too long.

Normal resets do still reverse time back to the beginning of the save files (or to whatever save point). Under a 2-B cosmology it would mean time is getting reversed, then the previous timelines exist but get left behind, probably in stasis.
 
RethPo said:
Ehhhh not really. Im just wondering if we give the same treatment to people like dimentio who scale to a cosmology that is basically ad infinitum since people may try to argue nlf against it (ah okay examples good).
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We would, given that every MWI based verse is like this. Besides, they would be just baseline about the countless/Ad Infinitum/MWI/whatever you call it in 2-B, so is not that high compared to other verses anyway. The only NLF here is the game world in this case being 2-A, when nothing stated that is infinitely bigger than any amount of timelines created in it.
 
Anyway, there was Countless 2B previous time.

That would be enough I guess.
 
Agree with 2-B: transcending, Darkdragonmedeus, originlima, saikou, chariot (although seems to prefer a '2-C, likely 2-B' rating), wagy, Mav, Strym (8)

Considering the current amount of agrees, and that the discussion about 2-B has pretty much ended, seemingly, I think I can add this now.
 
Roachman40 said:
Agree with 2-B: transcending, Darkdragonmedeus, originlima, saikou, chariot (although seems to prefer a '2-C, likely 2-B' rating), wagy, Mav, Strym (8)

Considering the current amount of agrees, and that the discussion about 2-B has pretty much ended, seemingly, I think I can add this now.
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Nnnnnope not quite yet. Like mori said, there does need to be agreement on the reasons for 2-B with the cosmology and all. And how it would be explained on the profiles.
 
RethPo said:
Nnnnnope not quite yet. Like mori said, there does need to be agreement on the reasons for 2-B with the cosmology and all. And how it would be explained on the profiles.
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This.

We need also an agreement on how big said 2-B is, as when Undertale was 2-B on site, there was never a true agreement on how much they scale on this tier, and we should also prevent faulty calculations given they're mostly unreliable, and vary too much given the amount of variables Flowey as explored being vague as hell.
 
aye, fair.
StrymULTRA said:
Alright, if 2-B gets accepted over 2-C (with the latter being the absolute minimum anyway), allow me to introduce two ideas on how the size of said 2-B cosmology would be:
  • A: Frisk alone can go at very absolute least 115 Resets (93 endings + 12 tries against Sans + 10 tries against Asgore). Flowey obviously did much more than that, as in hundreds of resets he couldn't make Asgore show him the SOULs, and he could explore every possibility of the underground, meaning that said 2-B, as a very conservative end, should be at very absolute least in the thousands range, as is the safest assumptions for the total amounts of resets done from the characters, and doesn't go in faulty calcs with tons of assumptions.


I legit don't care if B get rejected, or both B and A in favor of just 2-C with 100 timelines, but I just wanted to express an opinion.
Click to expand...
Im pretty neutral on option b but both seem like pretty alright interpretations ig, I would appreciate for others to shed there thoughts on this and which option you agree/disagree with. It would be rather nice if we can be on the same page for the cosmology.
 
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y3p_owo said:
I believe it comes from Asriel's infinite stats iirc? I might be wrong though.
Click to expand...

Nah it comes from this

StrymULTRA said:
We would, given that every MWI based verse is like this. Besides, they would be just baseline about the countless/Ad Infinitum/MWI/whatever you call it in 2-B, so is not that high compared to other verses anyway. The only NLF here is the game world in this case being 2-A, when nothing stated that is infinitely bigger than any amount of timelines created in it.
Click to expand...

But as you see I explained instead that we ain't making it 2-A because it is the NLF in this case. Infinite stats don't mean anything as every Tier 2 is infinitely above any kind of 3D AP.
 
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