The most controversial debate is up here again... Goku vs. Supes.

[Omegas03]

'''Damn did I really miss out a large portion of the scaling? lmao'''

 

[UchihaSlayer96]

@Cryo

Claps with a tear running down his face

Good job mate.

 

[XSOULOFCINDERX]

JESUS ******* CHRIST!

 

[Roachman40]

Pre-Black SS Goku = 16 KiloFoe

Post-Black SS Goku = at least 66,560 KiloFoe

Whoa

 

[Omegas03]

Wait, @Cyro if that were the case post Chamber Base Vegeta (and by extension, Goku) should be just 3-B jesus christ.

Let's wait for more input, though.

 

[Spinoirr]

Yeah they did train in the manga so that makes sense e

 

[UchihaSlayer96]

They can also tank a lot of damage from fusion Zamasu in base lol...

 

[PhantomØ4]

I did not expect 3-B Goku just via scaling tbh

 

[Omegas03]

If pre Chamber SSB Vegeta < SSJ Black but post Chamber SSB Vegeta > SSR Black then Vegeta's SSJ would be above his previous SSB as dumb as it sounds.

 

[CryoTheMayo]

Had lunch, redoing calc because unsatisfied.

Multipliers:

• SS = 50x Base

• SS2 = 200x Base

• SS3 = At least 400x

• SSG = At least 800x Base

• SSB = At least 8,000x Base (160x SS) (20x SS3)

Black Arc SS3 Goku = 128 KiloFoe

SS Black = Pre-Chamber SSB Vegeta = Black Arc SSB Goku = 2,560 KiloFoe

SSR Black = 160x SS Black = 409,600 = Post-Chamber SSB Vegeta

Post-Chamber SS Vegeta = 409,600 / 160 = 2,560

Therefore: Post-Chamber SS Vegeta is actually at least 2,560 KiloFoe

ToP SS Goku should be at least as strong as 2,560 KiloFoe, placing the ToP Goku overall stats at:

• Base = 51.2 KiloFoe

• SS = 2,560 KiloFoe

• SS2 = 10,240 KiloFoe

• SS3 = 20,480 KiloFoe

I don't know where I got the "66,650 KiloFoe" figure from, I probably just had a brainfart when talking IRL in the middle of typing.

Overall, ToP SS Goku is about 4x stronger than PC Superman, which is a far more reasonable matchup.

 

[Roachman40]

.....yay?

 

[Omegas03]

Welp, this seems fair then.

 

[Spinoirr]

They should get a normal ssj forms key?

 

[UchihaSlayer96]

Question. Can Superman traverse different dimensions? Because Goku... as funny as it sounds, BFR him to the other world lol.

 

[CryoTheMayo]

Well, it's not a one-shot anymore, at the very least. The AP gap is still big enough that Goku would, presumably, KO Superman in a few good punches. From that figure, you would want to start arguing about Powers and Abilities to decide whether or not Goku can win with the 4x AP gap, or if Superman can pull something with his powers.

 

[UchihaSlayer96]

They should get a normal ssj forms key?

They already have one, but seems it needs to be updated with the new scaling of Post-black arc.

 

[Omegas03]

it's a one shot if Goku is forced to transform further than SSJ I doubt he'll go for SSJ2 or 3 if he has an considerable advantage with just SSJ though.

 

[Iisdude1]

Goku's energy attacks are stronger than his physical stats, and his apparent ap advantage mabye he could defeat Superman with a Kamehameha. unless Superman has some sort of counter to it.

 

[UchihaSlayer96]

Goku does have the Warp Kamehameha. And BFR is legit an option lol though not in character ofc. Also yeah SS3 one-shots.

 

[Elizhaa]

Why are the God forms being considered in the scaling since they are 3-B?

 

[Buttersamuri]

Gonna follow this mess

 

[Omegas03]

Why are the God forms being considered in the scaling since they are 3-B?

I am wondering the same thing, post Rosat Base Vegeta/Goku would be 3-B in that case.

 

[CryoTheMayo]

Why are the God forms being considered in the scaling since they are 3-B?

Because the scaling of transformations doesn't really make sense, and this is the best low-ball I can possibly give.

If you want to argue that SSG should be billions of times stronger than Super Saiyan 3, then that just means Black arc Vegeta and ToP Goku are billions of times stronger than beforehand, which renders this battle invalid.

It seems like SS3 Goku should still scale to at least 128 KiloFoe during the Black arc, though, so we would have to argue primarily based on scaling up to the start of the Black arc, maybe have some high-balls, to get Black arc SS3 Goku and PC Superman around the same level.

 

[UchihaSlayer96]

It seems like Chou needs a scaling CRT lol

 

[Omegas03]

If we say that Goku at the mid of the Black arc is comparable to Pre Rosat Vegeta (The same Vegeta who with SSJ2 > SSJ Black >>>> Base Black > SSJ3 Goku start of black arc) then this could actually be fair.

 

[CryoTheMayo]

Why are the God forms being considered in the scaling since they are 3-B?

I am wondering the same thing, post Rosat Base Vegeta/Goku would be 3-B in that case.

Yes, if SSR Black and SSB Vegeta are comparable, when SS Black could match SSB Vegeta beforehand, then Post-Black Vegeta and Goku should be 3-B in all forms.

 

[CryoTheMayo]

If we say that Goku at the mid of the Black arc is comparable to Pre Rosat Vegeta (The same Vegeta who with SSJ2 > SSJ Black >>>> Base Black > SSJ3 Goku start of black arc) then this could actually be fair.

I'll leave scaling Black arc Goku to you and other posters then, I don't really pay attention to the manga's scaling and have to go for the day. Will be interested in seeing arguments when I get back.

 

[UchihaSlayer96]

I vote Goku via AP advantage and Warp Kamehameha.

 

[Oblivion_Of_The_Endless]

Superman has several ways of dura negging, and one of them involves his heat vision, which he leads with, so another advantage there aside from infinite stamina

 

[UchihaSlayer96]

Goku has Analytical prediction and enhanced senses so he can dodge/warp away pretty easily.

 

[Oblivion_Of_The_Endless]

Goku has Analytical prediction and enhanced senses so he can dodge/warp away pretty easily.

Superman's heat vision can cover entire planets

 

[UchihaSlayer96]

Superman's heat vision can cover entire planets

So? Speed is equalized. Not to mention ki blasts can extend to space pretty easily. Goku has very large range as well.

 

[Buttersamuri]

Yea. He ain't dodging Superman's lasers. Teleport to avoid them is more possible. But I don't recall him using teleport dodging a lot of at all

 

[Oblivion_Of_The_Endless]

Superman's heat vision can cover entire planets

So? Speed is equalized. Not to mention key blasts can extend to space pretty easily. Goku has very large range as well.
You do know that this battle takes place on Earth, right? He has nowhere to dodge and Supes can fight on space, while Goku cant

 

[Iisdude1]

His durability neg would kill goku, he wouldn't use that on someone like him unless he had to, and he's not cutting off Goku's powers by targeting any organs.

 

[Oblivion_Of_The_Endless]

His durability neg would kill goku, he wouldn't use that on someone like him

Doesnt need to kill right away, just severely damage him to the point of incap

 

[UchihaSlayer96]

Yea. He ain't dodging Superman's lasers. Teleport to avoid them is more possible. But I don't recall him using teleport dodging a lot of at all

He dodges and outruns Ki blasts all the time. Also speed is equalized guys so no one has a speed advantage

 

[Oblivion_Of_The_Endless]

Yea. He ain't dodging Superman's lasers. Teleport to avoid them is more possible. But I don't recall him using teleport dodging a lot of at all

He dodges and outruns Ki blasts all the time. Also speed is equalized guys so no one has a speed advantage

That still doesnt help against an attack that can cover the entire field the battle takes place

 

[Buttersamuri]

He dodges and outruns Ki blasts all the time. Also speed is equalized guys so no one has a speed advantage

Ki Blasts aren't planet sized. So not gonna happen

 

[Omegas03]

@Oblivion

Is the heat vision an AoE?

No, better yet; does Superman use that long ranged Heat vision right away?